141 in 2013 way tougher than 149 last year. True freshman vs Redshirt Freshman results. Plus Retherford got an awful draw. Not sure why that's strange.
Now Jimmy G's ranking - yeah, that's puzzling.
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Flo - 141 rankings
- Thread starter Spicolli
- Start date
Now Jimmy G's ranking - yeah, that's puzzling.
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College athletes no doubt have the rescorces to cut more safely. Just my opinion but a 5th years college senior wrestling at or less than he probably wrestled in HS seems to be a stretch health wise. Don't get me wrong.....If this is what he needs to get in the lineup and can handle it.....great for him ( a gutsy thing to even attempt).
I believe the 20 lb cut for a HS wrestler would be easier since the weight a college wrestler typically walks around at is a larger percentage muscle and that loss of muscle will have more of an effect on his performance and possibly health.
I think that is the fear of most Hawk fans have with Brody's cut.........will he be able to maintain who you saw at 149 at 141 for an entire season & a BIG schedule?
College athletes no doubt have the rescorces to cut more safely. Just my opinion but a 5th years college senior wrestling at or less than he probably wrestled in HS seems to be a stretch health wise. Don't get me wrong.....If this is what he needs to get in the lineup and can handle it.....great for him ( a gutsy thing to even attempt).
I believe the 20 lb cut for a HS wrestler would be easier since the weight a college wrestler typically walks around at is a larger percentage muscle and that loss of muscle will have more of an effect on his performance and possibly health.
I think that is the fear of most Hawk fans have with Brody's cut.........will he be able to maintain who you saw at 149 at 141 for an entire season & a BIG schedule?
Depends what Sorensen shows up. He was frustrating to watch his last 10-15 matches. Everyone likes to say Brooks closed his skill set significantly mid-late season, I'd say the samething happen w BS. He has to open offensively if he's wants to being dancing Sat night
Nolf did pretty well for his first freestyle tournament - takedown machine. We're happy to have him.
So what if Retherford's only losses in college were as a true freshman to a four-time champ and a two-time finalist? 4th is higher than 5th! Context be damned!
Looks like another NLWC check has been cut.
Chopper -- Very few teams would disagree with that statement. Nolf is clearly the best Young Guns kid to make it to the D1 level to date.
But, #8 has never lost a collegiate match @141.
Is this how you think they will finish, or how you think they should be ranked?
Here's how I'd do it 
http://www.wrestlestats.com/rankings/weight/141
One thing I forgot to mention, a few weeks ago I made an enhancement to the rankings pages to show whether a wrestler is redshirting or not. You'll see next to their name, a red "RS" if they are redshirting. Should help easily identify which wrestlers that are ranked, but not eligible for duals and post-season.
http://www.wrestlestats.com/rankings/weight/141
One thing I forgot to mention, a few weeks ago I made an enhancement to the rankings pages to show whether a wrestler is redshirting or not. You'll see next to their name, a red "RS" if they are redshirting. Should help easily identify which wrestlers that are ranked, but not eligible for duals and post-season.
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Finish. The weight is a crap shoot so just my guess. I wouldn't be surprised to see McKenna win it. He's the real deal but he's obviously young and he may be a bit undersized for the weight.
I did not take it seriously that he really wanted him to move up...but his underlying context that Clark is better than Guilibon...That I took Seriously and I just responded that if Clark Moved up to 141..He no longer has that edge of Guilibon making the tougher cut.
I guess the poster was not serious that he thought Clark was better than Guilibon..I see.. Thanks for Clarifying
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Clark is better than Gulibon
Wrestler A: 52-10, 2x AA, 1x finalist
Wrestler B: 44-24, 1x AA
Penn State fans go from making excuses about how undersized he was two years ago to how tough of a cut it supposedly was last year. He's a good but not great wrestler. He doesn't need excuses and wouldn't want them.
I don't think anyone who knew what was going on thought Gulibon was undersized two years ago. Cael was quoted a number of times that year that he was having trouble with weight management, and last year also remarked that he was doing a much better job of it. He certainly did not look strong a couple of years ago - but that is often the case with guys cutting too much. I'm sure there were some guys on the PSU boards, as well as guys on this board and guys on the mat that thought he was undersized, but they were pretty much clueless.
Gulibon and Clark are very, very close - something I stated at this time last year on this board and backed it up with a bet for their first match. You could see this coming by comparing results at the same weight for the previous year - this doesn't always work out, but a lot of times it does. And they ended up having two really entertaining matches. I've got a lot of respect for Clark and wish I could see more matches between them. Unfortunately that is not going to happen this year, maybe next year but I doubt it.
As far as if Clark were at 141 - if he were, I would think that he would be ranked #1. I stated on another board that I would have Gulibon tied for #5 - with 4 other guys: Mayes, Heil, Mecate & Jack. Abidin #6 & Ashnault #7. And I think Ashnault is as good a bet to win the whole thing as any. There really is no #1 at this time at 141 - Gulibon is as good as any.
I never said Guilibon was better than Clark at 133.....nor do I think that...Your Stats are accurate and do speak for themselves. I was just saying MY OPINION is that Guilibon would be the better wrestler at 141. Cael said from the beginning that Guilibon was having problems with the cut his freshman year. So, I will take Cael's word over a few Penn State fans that think he was undersized.
I think Gulibon is a tremendously improved wrestler, and think he will probably end a 3x AA, but that being said I think that Clark has stepped his level up higher than Gulibon has since their high school days. In both of their meetings last year, I would say Clark was in control about 90% of the time, and save for Clark basically handing Gulibon the match at BJC in the last 15 seconds, he probably would've been 2-0, but he was 1-1 and won when the match mattered most, probably one of my favorite matches last year, Clarks absolute refusal to get taken down and win the scrambles is awesome and reminds me a lot of McDonough in his prime.
I think the move to 41 is a good move for guilbon and pst if he puts in the time in the weight room. kid is good at controlling match pace making opponent his style.any choice for #1 right now is meaningless whoever steps up out of a bunch of guys.definately an opportunity to be had there.c'mon brody do your thing.
I was careful and said "this year". I am very excited about Kemmer being our guy of the future.
I'm a big Kemerer fan as well, but IMO, Nolf is on another level. I don't think they are likely to face each other down the road unless they pull Kemerer's shirt. More than likely it will be Kemerer vs Joseph as it looks like Nolf will bump to 165 next year.
Jefe, simply my opinion. I've watched nearly all of Nico's matches since middle school, the others since elementary school. I'm a big fan of Nico, Gulibon, Kemerer and all of the YG kids. Having watched all of them over many years, I just think Nolf had the edge over the others coming out of HS. I also think he had the highest ceiling for growth as he transitioned to the D1 level.
We're pretty much in agreement. I pointed out Nico only because Nolf has yet to wrestle varsity; at the same point in his college career, Nico was already a national runner-up to McDonough.
I think Nolf probably ends up with a better college career. But part of me also says: he could finish behind Martinez the next 3 years -- in which case, his college career could end up equivalent to Nico's.
I am not too heated about Zain...I know what he's capable of. However, our guy also beat the #1 guy at the weight class in TShirt. He lost to him twice; once in OT and 2-1. Typical TShirt match but there is a sliver separating them. Zain is moving up a weight after a redshirt year...He is getting the #2 spot based on reputation alone...not what he has accomplished at the weight class.
But here is a question for you...if 2014's 141 was "way" tougher than 2015's 149, why isn't Evan Henderson (who placed 4th over Zain) #2 instead of Zain? He got majored by Devin Carter in the Semis that year but he did knock off Port who beat Zain. Oh yea...Devin Carter was the runner-up. Didn't Tony Ramos move up a weight and beat him at the All Stars that year? Yea, I'm going off on tangents...haha. At least we are talking wrestling instead of where a high school wrestler is registered for his wedding.
I think Nolf gets a W against IMar. IMAR didn't have a guy like Nolf last year. Big motor, great technician, good scrambler. However, IMar is really good underneath the bright lights. Can't wait to watch those two go at it.
That's a very bold statement, unless you think IMar gets DQed for an illegal slam.
Imar is such horse, not sure if Nolf can handle his strength initially. Probably closes the gap but in the immortal words:
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man!"
"To be the man, you gotta beat the man!"
definitely bold. I'm not picking IMar to lose - until he loses. Then I'll call it in hindsight. I watched him destroy Ness in awe.
Meh...not really. I'd like to think that Nolf is all hype but he's not. Great wrestling IQ and I think he can pull an Iowa Style win over IMar in the third. Yea...a high school kid did beat Nolf in freestyle. But remember, a high school kid took it to Imar twice in freestyle...both by TF in about a 1:12 and 2:00. Valencia was 3-0 against a redshirt Imar in 2014.
"A" win or "the" win? Nico decked Delgado in a dual ...
But agreed -- Nolf could push Martinez in ways he wasn't pushed last year, and they could be showcase-type matches. I can't wait to see them.
As far as Martinez's strength goes: Nolf spent the past year practicing with Matt Brown, who wrestled a physically punishing style and obliterated the national ROTC fitness competition; and with Frank Molinaro. Nolf may or may not beat Martinez but will be ready for his strength.
Love Ness but he was undisciplined in his positions and he took too many risks. It's why we liked him because sometimes those risks worked out, but then sometimes they didn't. Nolf doesn't make many mistakes like that. Not saying that Nolf goes in and dominates IMar...but I do think it has potential to be a toss up where one wins the dual and the other wins B1Gs with a tie-breaker at the NCAAs. It's a gut thing...much like Willie's Zain #2 ranking at 149
Edit: The bold is for you Jefe.
I don't know that I'd be using Frank Molinaro as my reasoning for how strong someone is, unless you think Brent Metcalf is the strongest man on earth.
Feel free to focus on the Matt Brown portion of that post.
