Video of hearing from WSOC Charlotte
Judge hears case in Atlantic Coast Conference vs Florida State University, March 22 (Part 1)
Judge hears case in Atlantic Coast Conference vs Florida State University, March 22 (Part 1)
FSU to the B1G
- Thread starter fsu1jreed
- Start date
Lawyer on the 247 commentary thread is not optimistic
"That's fairly unlikely - usually the 2nd judge will take the lead of the 1st judge, so likely the FL judge sees the NC judge didn't dismiss/stay and will dismiss/stay the FL action. But it's possible the FL judge says "no, there's things that have to be heard in FL also" and refuses to dismiss/stay and there are competing lawsuits going on at the same time. In that case, most likely one of the parties asks a federal court to step in and decide which court should hear the case.
It's pretty unlikely that it gets heard in FL though, unfortunately. Not only for the reasons listed throughout the thread (FSU only really made 1 significant argument that they seem to have "won" - that the ACC sued them without getting the required vote first - but stuff like that usually isn't going to result in a judge completely throwing out an otherwise "good" case. Instead, the judge would likely rule that the ACC has to go "cure" it's mistake: it loses first filing status and has to refile it's suit after getting the required vote), but the judge then has 9 other factors to consider whether or not it should be heard in NC or FL, and those factors tend to weigh in favor of the ACC. Particularly the fact that Clemson has now filed a lawsuit in SC, and it's possible UNC and Miami also file cases in their states, etc. courts tend to not like forcing one party to run around and deal with a bunch of different cases in different jurisdictions, and instead have all the other parties who are suing the common party to go to the common party's "ground". In other words, they see it as more fair to have the 2 (or 3, 4, etc) universities go to 1 other jurisdiction to deal with the suits, than to have the 1 conference go to 2 (or 3, 4, etc) different jurisdictions to deal with the suits.
And in this case, the same judge has been assigned the FSU & Clemson cases in NC, so it makes even more sense for him to keep them in NC, as he can potentially even merge the cases and save the parties (and the courts) even more time/resources.
"That's fairly unlikely - usually the 2nd judge will take the lead of the 1st judge, so likely the FL judge sees the NC judge didn't dismiss/stay and will dismiss/stay the FL action. But it's possible the FL judge says "no, there's things that have to be heard in FL also" and refuses to dismiss/stay and there are competing lawsuits going on at the same time. In that case, most likely one of the parties asks a federal court to step in and decide which court should hear the case.
It's pretty unlikely that it gets heard in FL though, unfortunately. Not only for the reasons listed throughout the thread (FSU only really made 1 significant argument that they seem to have "won" - that the ACC sued them without getting the required vote first - but stuff like that usually isn't going to result in a judge completely throwing out an otherwise "good" case. Instead, the judge would likely rule that the ACC has to go "cure" it's mistake: it loses first filing status and has to refile it's suit after getting the required vote), but the judge then has 9 other factors to consider whether or not it should be heard in NC or FL, and those factors tend to weigh in favor of the ACC. Particularly the fact that Clemson has now filed a lawsuit in SC, and it's possible UNC and Miami also file cases in their states, etc. courts tend to not like forcing one party to run around and deal with a bunch of different cases in different jurisdictions, and instead have all the other parties who are suing the common party to go to the common party's "ground". In other words, they see it as more fair to have the 2 (or 3, 4, etc) universities go to 1 other jurisdiction to deal with the suits, than to have the 1 conference go to 2 (or 3, 4, etc) different jurisdictions to deal with the suits.
And in this case, the same judge has been assigned the FSU & Clemson cases in NC, so it makes even more sense for him to keep them in NC, as he can potentially even merge the cases and save the parties (and the courts) even more time/resources.
The whole thing was like a high school play with each person being handed their role and associated scripts.
A-holes.....get in the fight and help blow up this POS conference
"I feel bad for some Miami fans. They are told "we are being patient, "observing," "letting it play out," "support ACC" blah blah, but I can only imagine if Nebraska was in a spot like this and leadership said this in Nebraska, there would be riots in the streets demanding to get into the P2. Some of the Miami fans view the school belonging in the P2. And then one of their writers at On3 tells the fanbase that they will stay in the ACC and sit back.
I can understand not having an offer from the P2, but the passive care coming from them is sad to see from a program that won multiple national titles in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. Their loss to Ohio State wasn't all that long ago in the big picture.
Back when the Big 12 was on the verge of implosion, CO left, MO left, A&M left, and Nebraska left. If Nebraska hadn't left, the school would be "stuck" in the Big 12. After the CFP contract that transpired with the P2 have authorative power over college football playoff, Nebraska would have been left as a second class citizen.
Thankfully Nebraska had smart leadership and jumped on a Big Ten move before all of this other stuff went down.
Miami's leadership needs to decide if they want to do whatever it takes to get into the P2 within the next year and a half or run the risk of living as a second class citizen (no control group association of college football).
"I feel bad for some Miami fans. They are told "we are being patient, "observing," "letting it play out," "support ACC" blah blah, but I can only imagine if Nebraska was in a spot like this and leadership said this in Nebraska, there would be riots in the streets demanding to get into the P2. Some of the Miami fans view the school belonging in the P2. And then one of their writers at On3 tells the fanbase that they will stay in the ACC and sit back.
I can understand not having an offer from the P2, but the passive care coming from them is sad to see from a program that won multiple national titles in the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. Their loss to Ohio State wasn't all that long ago in the big picture.
Back when the Big 12 was on the verge of implosion, CO left, MO left, A&M left, and Nebraska left. If Nebraska hadn't left, the school would be "stuck" in the Big 12. After the CFP contract that transpired with the P2 have authorative power over college football playoff, Nebraska would have been left as a second class citizen.
Thankfully Nebraska had smart leadership and jumped on a Big Ten move before all of this other stuff went down.
Miami's leadership needs to decide if they want to do whatever it takes to get into the P2 within the next year and a half or run the risk of living as a second class citizen (no control group association of college football).
Rohan Law summary of yesterday’s hearing
FSU vs ACC: UPDATES from First COURT Room Hearing
Looks like he did a second summary interview
FSU vs ACC: UPDATES from First COURT Room Hearing
Looks like he did a second summary interview
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As well as on behalf of the gravy train for the people working in the ACC home office. That includes the utterly worthless commissioner.
"The ACC, as stated by a UNC BOT member, is operating on behalf of the lower half of the conference"
Leadership in the ACC has a choice to make. You can either try to fight the lawsuits to the very end and deal with the consequences of defeat or “celebrate” in victory.
But victory by Feb. 2025? I doubt it.
Florida State and Clemson do not view themselves as second class citizens. They do not want to sit at the kids table like the Big 12 Conference now does. In the college playoff contract, the Big Ten and SEC can now dictate what happens with the college football playoff. It is in writing for the authority power. As part of this power, the Big Ten and SEC can now dictate conference realignment.
As I argued last spring and summer, the ACC they should have (and did with two schools) added the Pac-12 schools and let Florida State and Clemson exit. Instead of being smart, they decided to fight. As a result, two lawsuits are now active against the ACC by FSU and Clemson. These two schools want P2 membership. It is where they view themselves to belong. And all of the data points from a football perspective align with that viewpoint from those two schools.
The ACC, as stated by a UNC BOT member, is operating on behalf of the lower half of the conference - Miami, Wake Forest, Syracuse and others. We already know who voted to sue FSU with the amended lawsuit.
If the ACC decides to fight this to the very end and lose, not only will Clemson and Florida State leave, but so will North Carolina, North Carolina State, Virginia, possibly Duke, and you know the Kids Table Conference (aka Big 12) will drool over adding more non Tier 1 addictive schools in order to feel better about themselves. And you know they will idiotically want to take 4 ACC schools in that kind of move.
Therefore, if no settlement is done prior to Feb. 2025, well, ESPN could walk away from the TV contract. What happens with the GOR then? That is an answer that many folks in power would love to have the answer to.
You can continue to fight Florida State, end up in federal court, lose, and run the risk of Florida State getting out with zero cost besides the exit fee. In such a situation, other ACC schools are going to want the same exit price. Why on earth would you risk that to happen? It is beyond incompetence to allow such a situation to occur.
Why not be smart and put the ACC in the best position possible prior to Feb. 2025 so ESPN knows what the conference makeup will be for the ACC.
Yes the ACC already expanded with SMU, California, and Stanford to replace exits of North Carolina, Florida State, and Clemson. But, again, the reason to settle is to put stability back into the conference.
If you go to Florida State and say, “Ok, you can leave the ACC tomorrow for $200M.” Florida State will take up that kind of offer and head to their new conference home in the year 2025 or 2026. You can then do the same with Clemson. Possibly North Carolina as well.
Yes there is a lot of lost value to the football aspect of the ACC when that would occur. But historically, the ACC has been a basketball conference. Thus, why not settle, add good basketball programs to the conference, and let the conference be a basketball conference once again. Why not add a UCONN?
It would be beyond idiotic to try and close a money gap when authority power has now been put in writing that will dictate where money goes, structure of power choice, and more. The ACC and Big 12 raised the white flag and gave up and settled for second class citizenship. At the end of the day, there isn’t much of a difference between Boston College and USF on the football field. There is a massive difference on the football field between Clemson, Florida State and the rest of the ACC.
Do not be stupid, ACC, and try to win this in the courts. Settle. Provide stability for your conference. Schools that don’t have a P2 offer are NOT going to file a lawsuit.
If you don’t settle and lose, you run the risk of the ACC evaporating. Egos can kill a conference. Look at the Pac-12 with all of those research and academic powers that were associated with each other. The conference was killed. The same thing can happen to the ACC.
Settle with Clemson and Florida State and stabilize your conference.
As an aside, don’t worry about what Notre Dame will or will not do with the ACC football scheduling agreement without Florida State and Clemson.
"The ACC, as stated by a UNC BOT member, is operating on behalf of the lower half of the conference"
Leadership in the ACC has a choice to make. You can either try to fight the lawsuits to the very end and deal with the consequences of defeat or “celebrate” in victory.
But victory by Feb. 2025? I doubt it.
Florida State and Clemson do not view themselves as second class citizens. They do not want to sit at the kids table like the Big 12 Conference now does. In the college playoff contract, the Big Ten and SEC can now dictate what happens with the college football playoff. It is in writing for the authority power. As part of this power, the Big Ten and SEC can now dictate conference realignment.
As I argued last spring and summer, the ACC they should have (and did with two schools) added the Pac-12 schools and let Florida State and Clemson exit. Instead of being smart, they decided to fight. As a result, two lawsuits are now active against the ACC by FSU and Clemson. These two schools want P2 membership. It is where they view themselves to belong. And all of the data points from a football perspective align with that viewpoint from those two schools.
The ACC, as stated by a UNC BOT member, is operating on behalf of the lower half of the conference - Miami, Wake Forest, Syracuse and others. We already know who voted to sue FSU with the amended lawsuit.
If the ACC decides to fight this to the very end and lose, not only will Clemson and Florida State leave, but so will North Carolina, North Carolina State, Virginia, possibly Duke, and you know the Kids Table Conference (aka Big 12) will drool over adding more non Tier 1 addictive schools in order to feel better about themselves. And you know they will idiotically want to take 4 ACC schools in that kind of move.
Therefore, if no settlement is done prior to Feb. 2025, well, ESPN could walk away from the TV contract. What happens with the GOR then? That is an answer that many folks in power would love to have the answer to.
You can continue to fight Florida State, end up in federal court, lose, and run the risk of Florida State getting out with zero cost besides the exit fee. In such a situation, other ACC schools are going to want the same exit price. Why on earth would you risk that to happen? It is beyond incompetence to allow such a situation to occur.
Why not be smart and put the ACC in the best position possible prior to Feb. 2025 so ESPN knows what the conference makeup will be for the ACC.
Yes the ACC already expanded with SMU, California, and Stanford to replace exits of North Carolina, Florida State, and Clemson. But, again, the reason to settle is to put stability back into the conference.
If you go to Florida State and say, “Ok, you can leave the ACC tomorrow for $200M.” Florida State will take up that kind of offer and head to their new conference home in the year 2025 or 2026. You can then do the same with Clemson. Possibly North Carolina as well.
Yes there is a lot of lost value to the football aspect of the ACC when that would occur. But historically, the ACC has been a basketball conference. Thus, why not settle, add good basketball programs to the conference, and let the conference be a basketball conference once again. Why not add a UCONN?
It would be beyond idiotic to try and close a money gap when authority power has now been put in writing that will dictate where money goes, structure of power choice, and more. The ACC and Big 12 raised the white flag and gave up and settled for second class citizenship. At the end of the day, there isn’t much of a difference between Boston College and USF on the football field. There is a massive difference on the football field between Clemson, Florida State and the rest of the ACC.
Do not be stupid, ACC, and try to win this in the courts. Settle. Provide stability for your conference. Schools that don’t have a P2 offer are NOT going to file a lawsuit.
If you don’t settle and lose, you run the risk of the ACC evaporating. Egos can kill a conference. Look at the Pac-12 with all of those research and academic powers that were associated with each other. The conference was killed. The same thing can happen to the ACC.
Settle with Clemson and Florida State and stabilize your conference.
As an aside, don’t worry about what Notre Dame will or will not do with the ACC football scheduling agreement without Florida State and Clemson.
Take aways from today: ACC came out strong and especially on jurisdiction. Florida State does do business there too. With Clemson having filed now as well, and the ACC suing them in North Carolina too (same judge assigned there as us) you have to remember courts like judicial efficiency, and the judge kind of took a role of why would we want Florida State and Clemson and separate states making a ruling when we can deal with it all here. He can apply our state law there as well. Keep in mind that argument grows ten fold if UNC files.
FSU came out swinging on the vote issue. The judge obviously has problems with how that initial suit was handled by the ACC. Of course it’s material litigation. And of course they needed a vote. That alone is worthy of a dismissal, but it would be a dismissal without prejudice and the ACC can re-file.
Motion to seal - FSU cleaned up. Sunshine law doesn’t play. And NC is broad on public records law anyway. However, ESPN has made it clear that these documents have never been made public record so it would be a big deal to do so. Yet they didn’t even try to fight to keep this secret in Florida. Judge had an issue with that.
I’m slightly lost on how this contact is some trade secret written in government ink hidden in some secret tomb that people can only visit that no one knows about when Disney was allowed to buy out most of FOX EXCEPT for FOX Sports because there was a potential ESPN monopoly issue. And they won’t even bother to deal with it in a public records state as strong as Florida. You would think people had seen this. Heck the ACC GOR was basically a copy and paste from the Big 12.
I agree. They have been posturing for the best settlement possible but today was a major setback in that department. The motion to seal is not looking good at all. It is quite likely that the motion to dismiss would be granted too without prejudice thanks to the ACC's terrible handling of that initial complaint and that is according to their own testimony.
The only thing now making the outcome of this questionable is the Clemson case and whether the Judge feels its best for all parties for this case to now be tried in NC due to the multiple parties and potential future parties jumping in.
Judge Bledsoe understands the FSU argument that the Sunshine Laws mandates disclosure. Trade Secret exceptions don't apply. What is the ACC's response? Stone says "if we were in FL, and the docs were produced, and they dragged ESPN into court / litigation, and if the judge found that the shadow of sunshine law was cast upon the entire ACC (terrible mixed metaphors) then maybe we would be taking about the sunshine law forcing disclosure. But we are in NC. (Swing and a miss).
Allnoles is on twitter
The worst thing that could happen to that GoR and all GoR's because of it would be a Judgement in favor of FSU. It would set precedent and change the meaning of GoR's in that particular industry going forward.
I get that they are really just posturing for the best settlement possible but they are going backwards in that regard.
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twitter.com
The worst thing that could happen to that GoR and all GoR's because of it would be a Judgement in favor of FSU. It would set precedent and change the meaning of GoR's in that particular industry going forward.
I get that they are really just posturing for the best settlement possible but they are going backwards in that regard.
I wonder if this point that causes ESPN to push the ACC to settle. In the second Rohan interview from last night around 19:00 or so, posted above in post #885, Rohan says that FSU will receive access to the ESPN/ACC agreement, so it can defend the case, and due to Florida's Sunshine Law will be public record in Florida. As of yesterday, the judge hasn't had access to the ESPN/ACC agreement.
Stone - it's not up for debate. The agreement between ESPN/ACC clearly says it was confidential. The ACC can share the agreement with members so long as the members agrees to keep the document confidential. To which Judge Bledsoe jumps in and finishes the sentence of the paragraph, "subject to the laws of the state of the member to whom the disclosure is made."
Stone - it's not up for debate. The agreement between ESPN/ACC clearly says it was confidential. The ACC can share the agreement with members so long as the members agrees to keep the document confidential. To which Judge Bledsoe jumps in and finishes the sentence of the paragraph, "subject to the laws of the state of the member to whom the disclosure is made."
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Are you an attorney here in Florida? Seems like several are following the case.
I follow what our legal beagles on WC are saying and they’re sort of mixed but most agree that the ESPN attorney did not acquit their position very well.
No.. I am in medical. I have read some of the actual proceedings on Friday and can tell you the ACC was not very good at defending their case. The ESecPN lawyer was unprepared. It showed.
I like the NC BOT guy’s comments but they have received excessively beneficial treatment from this conference for the 30 years we have been a member, many times at our expense.
You’ll know when a school has a P2 home lined up. They’ll sue the ACC. The exception is UNC. They will have their choice of either P2 conference. Their obstacle may be the NC state legislature tying their future to NCST.
Will Miami Sue the ACC Too?
sports.yahoo.com
Will Miami Sue the ACC Too?
What does Clemson's lawsuit against the ACC mean? Here are 4 key questions on move that could have massive implications
What does Clemson's lawsuit against the ACC mean? Here are 4 key questions on move that could have massive implications
The result of FSU and Clemson’s legal claims could impact all of college athletics. Will more schools join in? Where could Clemson and Florida State land?
sports.yahoo.com
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Miserychant round table with JCS, GeenieWeenie and a lawyer named Mike Tomkowitz
Latest on the ACC Lawsuit and FSU | Monday SMASH | FSU Football
Latest on the ACC Lawsuit and FSU | Monday SMASH | FSU Football
This was a good listen. The lawyer Tomkewitz is sharp. He said the NC judge was prepared and fair in his questioning.
He said, and this is his educated guess is that we will be out of the ACC after next season and it will cost us under 200 million. JCS said FSU will be happy to pay that and be out of this trash conference. Ira agreed with that statement during Seminole Headlines today.
The NC case has been moved from county court to NC business court. The order, which was posted in the linked 247 thread, calls for a NC business court judge to be assigned.
247sports.com
ACC case moved to business court, new judge?
ACC case moved to business court, new judge?
247sports.com
$200M will be made back in less than 5 years in a P2 conference. You can bet that once FSU is out, everyone else that can get out will. I'm here for it.
Let scUM rot in the ACC or they (and both their fans) can go the Independent route.
They’ll be in the Big12/ACC conference that takes the mid tier ACC football schools. If they had a B1G landing spot, they’d have sued the ACC by now.
I'm laughing at a 5x NC winner being relegated to the B squad. LOL
Im a bit mixed on this..... one side of me says "let them rot!" but the other side says, "They are a legit brand and competitor who has had a rough couple of years. College football is better with a good Miami team, hope they don't fade to obscurity...."
JCS and Ira
ACC DECEPTION? FSU language more definitive about ACC Exit | FSU Lawsuit | ACC Lawsuit
247’s version of recent case events
247sports.com
ACC DECEPTION? FSU language more definitive about ACC Exit | FSU Lawsuit | ACC Lawsuit
247’s version of recent case events
FSU pushes to deny ACC's motion to stay discovery in Leon County: 'To get to the truth'
FSU pushes to deny ACC's motion to stay discovery in Leon County: 'To get to the truth'
247sports.com
Nah, let them go the way of Nebraska.
Noles247 is reporting that Miami has no plans and is happy in the ACC. So they may opt to be the next Nebraska.
Atlanta attorney Doug Rohan
FSU vs ACC: Attorney EXPLAINS Possible Grant of Rights LOOPHOLE
FSU vs ACC: Attorney EXPLAINS Possible Grant of Rights LOOPHOLE
I'm just here to say, "Screw Matt Baker!"
So I’ve been following the On3 thread on the FSU board (which is an awesome thread to follow) and something irked me. Do all southern folk all think their tailgating, stadium atmosphere, and BBQ is the best in the country? There have been couple of people saying the North doesn’t have good BBQ lol. Has no one from FSU been to Kansas City? Also the BIG tailgating is on par if not better than a lot of southern football programs lol.
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