ADVERTISEMENT

GOP's anti-abortion crisis

binsfeldcyhawk2

binsfeldcyhawk2

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 13, 2006
37,359
52,613
113
The Dobbs decision has been a disaster politically for R's....be careful of what you wish for.


The anti-abortion movement's greatest achievement — the Supreme Court's overturning of Roe v. Wade — has morphed into one of the biggest election liabilities Republicans have encountered in decades.

Why it matters: President Biden's polling weakness ultimately may not matter if Republicans can't find a way to effectively message or — at the very least — sideline abortion as a national issue and driver of turnout.

  • Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin's (R) bet that a "reasonable" ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy — a strategy backed by major anti-abortion rights groups — was soundly rejected, as Democrats flipped the state House and kept control of the state Senate.
  • In solid-red Ohio, 56.6% of voters supported enshrining abortion rights in the state constitution — meaning abortion access has gone a stunning 7 for 7 in state ballot initiatives since the end of Roe.
What they're saying: Sen. J.D. Vance (R-Ohio) called the results a "gut punch," outlining five reasons — ranging from campaign finance failures to voter mistrust — that the anti-abortion side was defeated.

  • "[W]e've spent so much time winning a legal argument on abortion that we've fallen behind on the moral argument," Vance said.
  • SBA Pro-Life America, one of the nation's top anti-abortion rights groups, warned in a memo today that Democrats are massively outspending Republicans and that abortion "will be an issue in every race in 2024."
That position is being universally echoed by Democrats too:

  • "Abortion is the No. 1 issue in the 2024 campaign," Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker, a top Biden surrogate, told the New York Times. "If you're not talking about protecting women's reproductive rights as a Democrat, you're not doing it right."
  • House Democrats' primary super PAC declared that abortion is "still top of mind for Americans EVERYWHERE," and predicted that their messaging contrast with Republicans will allow them to take back the House next year.
Between the lines: Anti-abortion politics are deeply ingrained in the Republican Party's power centers, making it exceedingly difficult to change voters' perceptions in time for the 2024 election.

What to watch: Ohio's abortion-rights victory has incentivized advocates to ramp up efforts to get abortion on the ballot in key 2024 states such as Arizona, Nevada and Florida.

The other side: "Advocates of same-sex marriage suffered a string of 32 losses at the ballot box before succeeding for the first time, in the bluest of states, in 2012," the editors of the National Review wrote today in defense of the anti-abortion losing streak.

  • "We disagreed with their objective, and both sides are more entrenched on the abortion issue, but their success serves as a reminder that a string of defeats at the ballot box is no reason to believe a cause is lost."
 
binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
The Dobbs decision has been a disaster politically for R's....be careful of what you wish for.


The anti-abortion movement's greatest achievement — the Supreme Court's overturning of Roe v. Wade — has morphed into one of the biggest election liabilities Republicans have encountered in decades.

Why it matters: President Biden's polling weakness ultimately may not matter if Republicans can't find a way to effectively message or — at the very least — sideline abortion as a national issue and driver of turnout.

  • Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin's (R) bet that a "reasonable" ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy — a strategy backed by major anti-abortion rights groups — was soundly rejected, as Democrats flipped the state House and kept control of the state Senate.
  • In solid-red Ohio, 56.6% of voters supported enshrining abortion rights in the state constitution — meaning abortion access has gone a stunning 7 for 7 in state ballot initiatives since the end of Roe.
What they're saying: Sen. J.D. Vance (R-Ohio) called the results a "gut punch," outlining five reasons — ranging from campaign finance failures to voter mistrust — that the anti-abortion side was defeated.

  • "[W]e've spent so much time winning a legal argument on abortion that we've fallen behind on the moral argument," Vance said.
  • SBA Pro-Life America, one of the nation's top anti-abortion rights groups, warned in a memo today that Democrats are massively outspending Republicans and that abortion "will be an issue in every race in 2024."
That position is being universally echoed by Democrats too:

  • "Abortion is the No. 1 issue in the 2024 campaign," Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker, a top Biden surrogate, told the New York Times. "If you're not talking about protecting women's reproductive rights as a Democrat, you're not doing it right."
  • House Democrats' primary super PAC declared that abortion is "still top of mind for Americans EVERYWHERE," and predicted that their messaging contrast with Republicans will allow them to take back the House next year.
Between the lines: Anti-abortion politics are deeply ingrained in the Republican Party's power centers, making it exceedingly difficult to change voters' perceptions in time for the 2024 election.

What to watch: Ohio's abortion-rights victory has incentivized advocates to ramp up efforts to get abortion on the ballot in key 2024 states such as Arizona, Nevada and Florida.

The other side: "Advocates of same-sex marriage suffered a string of 32 losses at the ballot box before succeeding for the first time, in the bluest of states, in 2012," the editors of the National Review wrote today in defense of the anti-abortion losing streak.

  • "We disagreed with their objective, and both sides are more entrenched on the abortion issue, but their success serves as a reminder that a string of defeats at the ballot box is no reason to believe a cause is lost."
Click to expand...
The National Review is delusional with that logic. In 230 years of America, social issues and civil rights only progress forward, never backward. Slavery, women’s suffrage, Jim Crow, voting rights, interracial marriage, abortion, gay marriage, marijuana, etc.

The one exception we went backwards was prohibition which was a disaster.

America always progresses forward, with opponents kicking and screaming the entire way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mientkiewicz, nelly02, artradley and 18 others
StormHawk42 said:
The National Review is delusional with that logic. In 230 years of America, social issues and civil rights only progress forward, never backward. Slavery, women’s suffrage, Jim Crow, voting rights, interracial marriage, abortion, gay marriage, marijuana, etc.

The one exception we went backwards was prohibition which was a disaster.

America always progresses forward, with opponents kicking and screaming the entire way.
Click to expand...
agree
 
  • Like
Reactions: goldmom
I firmly believe republicans never actually expected Roe to be totally overturned. Greatly limited perhaps but I think they always expected it to be there as something to motivate their base; as well as greatly underestimating any potential backlash.

DooBi said:
Sometimes you have to do what is right no matter the political consequences.
Click to expand...

The trouble here is that a majority of Americans clearly disagree with Republicans about what is right on this issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: srams21, THE_DEVIL, globalhawk and 12 others
sober_teacher said:
I firmly believe republicans never actually expected Roe to be totally overturned. Greatly limited perhaps but I think they always expected it to be there as something to motivate their base; as well as greatly underestimating any potential backlash.



The trouble here is that a majority of Americans clearly disagree with Republicans about what is right on this issue.
Click to expand...


The ole "dog caught the car, now what?" dilemma.

They let the vocal minority drive them for decades on this topic and they had zero forethought to the changing of the times. Its amusing that they think a "speak to it differently" is going to be enough to turn the tide. Everyone knows what they really want. They can keep capturing the single issue voters, but those are going to be loser topics over and over.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VodkaSam, spiderland and sober_teacher
I may be the only pro-choice board identified MAGA. I have issues when it's used strictly as a form of birth control; but not so much that it would override a woman's right to choose.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom Paris
Yet, it's still just one issue. The "other side" was addressed in today's morning newsletter.

"Nationwide, not a single Republican governor or senator has lost re-election since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.

That pattern might seem to conflict with this week’s election results, but I don’t think it does. Most Americans support widespread abortion access and will vote for ballot initiatives that protect or establish abortion rights. Yet in an election between two candidates, only a tiny slice of people is likely to vote differently because of any one issue, including abortion.

That slice can still decide some elections. In Virginia this week, Democrats won several swing districts in the state legislature (although not as many as they had hoped, the political analyst J. Miles Coleman says), partly by emphasizing abortion rights. Similarly, two of the few Republican House incumbents who lost last year — one in Ohio, another in New Mexico — struggled to defend their abortion opposition.

But many other examples that Democrats cite as proof of abortion’s political potency are weaker. Yes, Gov. Andy Beshear of Kentucky emphasized abortion during his successful re-election campaign this year, much as Gov. Laura Kelly of Kansas and Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan did last year. Here’s the thing, though: Almost every incumbent governor, from both parties, who ran for re-election this year or last year won. The only exception was Gov. Steve Sisolak, a Nevada Democrat.

To argue that abortion has become a dominant factor in U.S. politics requires ignoring the results in Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Texas and elsewhere."

It continues

 
hawkeyetraveler said:
Ah the good old religion argument: “my way is the only right way”. You do realize that is the same logic used by Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Al Qaeda?

Those groups are nutbags, but your “right” is the real true “right”…right?
Click to expand...

You'll have about the same success getting through to Doobi/keehawk as you would someone from one of those Islamic extremist groups too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: artradley, Tom Paris, JWolf74 and 1 other person
Do R's possibly feel like their stance on abortion is too strict or radical? I feel like for a long time politicians would be very conservative on abortion stances bc it was typically just virtue signaling and they never actually thought it would be overturned. Seems like some now have to be thinking that maybe they are trying to take anti-abortion legislation too far.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thunderlips71
DooBi said:
So, do all of you believe there is such thing as right and wrong?
Click to expand...
Of course we all do. We just don’t always agree on which is which, hence debates/discussions on any given topic. When enough people agree on something, it often gets codified into law. That can also change over time as popular opinion changes - see overturning prohibition, ending slavery as examples.

your opinion on what is right regarding abortion currently looks very much like the minority opinion at present.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ParkerHawk, drew_hawk, SocraticIshmael and 7 others
Do some of you really think women are going to allow themselves to go backwards in society today? More women are going to college than men, most boys can't get out of their own way anymore. Do you really think most women really want to have an abortion? I'm going to guess that number would be really really low. Women have earned and deserve the right to have that choice. As @hawkeyetraveler says some of this stuff is pretty frightening from some of you guys. This isn't the middle East where women are treated mostly as 2nd class citizens. It's a 50-50 world here. I honestly hope you Republicans never wake up and keep fighting these ridiculous losing battles.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: mientkiewicz, ParkerHawk, bIhawk and 10 others
bhawk24bob said:
The pendulum is going to swing back hard on this one, there's going to be a lot of butthurt conservative when it happens
Click to expand...
Which is too bad for them because they were having a lot of success in lowering the number of abortions and getting people to see the moral argument they were making. Then they did this and shit all over that.
 
littlez said:
Do some of you really think women are going to allow themselves to go backwards in society today? More women are going to college than men, most boys can't get out of their own way anymore. Do you really think most women really want to have an abortion? I'm going to guess that number would be really really low. Women have earned and deserve the right to have that choice. As @hawkeyetraveler says some of this stuff is pretty frightening from some of you guys. This isn't the middle East where women are treated mostly as 2nd class citizens. It's a 50-50 world here. I honestly hope you Republicans never wake up and keep fighting these ridiculous losing battles.
Click to expand...
And maybe all of us will lose our fear of standing up and saying what should be said:

Abortion is NOT a form of birth control.
Both sexual partners are responsible for preventing a pregnancy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obviously Oblivious
binsfeldcyhawk2 said:
The Dobbs decision has been a disaster politically for R's....be careful of what you wish for.


The anti-abortion movement's greatest achievement — the Supreme Court's overturning of Roe v. Wade — has morphed into one of the biggest election liabilities Republicans have encountered in decades.

Why it matters: President Biden's polling weakness ultimately may not matter if Republicans can't find a way to effectively message or — at the very least — sideline abortion as a national issue and driver of turnout.

  • Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin's (R) bet that a "reasonable" ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy — a strategy backed by major anti-abortion rights groups — was soundly rejected, as Democrats flipped the state House and kept control of the state Senate.
  • In solid-red Ohio, 56.6% of voters supported enshrining abortion rights in the state constitution — meaning abortion access has gone a stunning 7 for 7 in state ballot initiatives since the end of Roe.
What they're saying: Sen. J.D. Vance (R-Ohio) called the results a "gut punch," outlining five reasons — ranging from campaign finance failures to voter mistrust — that the anti-abortion side was defeated.

  • "[W]e've spent so much time winning a legal argument on abortion that we've fallen behind on the moral argument," Vance said.
  • SBA Pro-Life America, one of the nation's top anti-abortion rights groups, warned in a memo today that Democrats are massively outspending Republicans and that abortion "will be an issue in every race in 2024."
That position is being universally echoed by Democrats too:

  • "Abortion is the No. 1 issue in the 2024 campaign," Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker, a top Biden surrogate, told the New York Times. "If you're not talking about protecting women's reproductive rights as a Democrat, you're not doing it right."
  • House Democrats' primary super PAC declared that abortion is "still top of mind for Americans EVERYWHERE," and predicted that their messaging contrast with Republicans will allow them to take back the House next year.
Between the lines: Anti-abortion politics are deeply ingrained in the Republican Party's power centers, making it exceedingly difficult to change voters' perceptions in time for the 2024 election.

What to watch: Ohio's abortion-rights victory has incentivized advocates to ramp up efforts to get abortion on the ballot in key 2024 states such as Arizona, Nevada and Florida.

The other side: "Advocates of same-sex marriage suffered a string of 32 losses at the ballot box before succeeding for the first time, in the bluest of states, in 2012," the editors of the National Review wrote today in defense of the anti-abortion losing streak.

  • "We disagreed with their objective, and both sides are more entrenched on the abortion issue, but their success serves as a reminder that a string of defeats at the ballot box is no reason to believe a cause is lost."
Click to expand...
It was obvious during last night’s debate that the GOP knows they have a problem and are now doing a 180.

What I’m tired of hearing the GOP constantly saying is that women are choosing to abort on the delivery table. Only 1% of abortions are performed after 20 weeks. Unless the mother is in a life or death situation no doctor is going to perform an abortion while a woman is full term and in labor.

The vote in Ohio would have been more lopsided if the wording on the legislation would not have been written by the GOP that by voting yes women would have the right to abort at birth. Some Republicans (MAGA) actually believe women can choose to abort at birth without a medical emergency.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: steelhawkeye, SocraticIshmael, Bierhalter and 3 others
goldmom said:
And maybe all of us will lose our fear of standing up and saying what should be said:

Abortion is NOT a form of birth control.
Both sexual partners are responsible for preventing a pregnancy.
Click to expand...
Has anyone said differently?
 
  • Like
Reactions: gohawks50
And republican nutjobs are embarking on Phase II of this process.

Republican spending bill implodes over 'embarrassing' birth control spat​


Another government funding bill from Republicans was pulled on Thursday morning after many leaders refused to back several pieces of the bill, including one aimed at overturning a law that barred companies from discriminating against employees who use birth control.
The birth control plank was just one of dozens of amendments that were added to the bill from Republican lawmakers, as House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) pledged to pass the budget by the Nov. 17 shutdown deadline.

According to Politico, there were more than 100 amendments proposed in all, including some that drew rebukes from swing-district Republicans.

The law being targeted by the House GOP is a local Washington, D.C. ordinance that prevents any employer from discriminating against a worker who seeks contraception or family planning services. The GOP bill would block that from taking effect.

In an interview Sunday, Johnson was asked by Fox's Shannon Bream about some of his extreme opinions and bills regarding birth control.

"I really don't remember any of those measures," he told her.

Link
 
  • Like
Reactions: Razorhawk2
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

cigaretteman

Opinion Republicans’ abortion woes worsen

Replies
23
Views
754
Off Topic
Chishawk1425
Chishawk1425
theiacowtipper

Trump vows to find compromise on abortion

Replies
169
Views
3K
Off Topic
Rifler
Rifler
cigaretteman

France becomes first country to explicitly enshrine abortion rights in constitution

Replies
299
Views
2K
Off Topic
Joes Place
Joes Place
cigaretteman

I Hope to Repeal an Arcane Law That Could Be Misused to Ban Abortion Nationwide

Replies
0
Views
81
Off Topic
cigaretteman
cigaretteman
F

Is old school, vengeful God making a comeback?

Replies
6
Views
206
Off Topic
jawatkins
jawatkins
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back