He is at it again.....KMF
- Thread starter MSU158
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Tommy boy dug a hole with bad recruiting in the past -- he knows it and we are all paying for it BUT he has adapted and recruiting has improved so I am holding my position -- for now. I am willing to wait as long as things are improving and we are adapting to the new reality of recruiting for D1 wrestling. Unfortunately there is lag time between recruiting and performance and we were shown last night. Everyone looked slow except Gunther and Stoll. Maybe a virus? Kem and Sorenson were not at 100%.They all looked gassed. It was obvious most of them did not want to be there last night.
In the absence of a better alternative (I know of none with his depth of skills) We should accept the situation, adapt and overcome it doing the most with what we have which isn't much right now. This is just like my beloved Marine Corps--- You are expected to do the most with the least! Ooo Rah Semper Fi We used to be the Air Force where you ask for another billion and it is delivered to your hotel. (Gable era) Those days are gone.
The Brands do have an image problem They are like pit bulls -- hated by those who dont know them and loved by those who know the breed. But that is being addressed with the 'smiles' campaign.
Put it this way for those who need it simple, My truck may be ugly, smoke and rumble but it works and absent another vehicle that can do ALL the work I am not going to throw this one away for a shiny new mazda miata convertible that can only do part of the job. So as long as the problems (recruiting) can be fixed I am going to stick with this truck.
Sorry, but the only reason I repeat myself is because I am explaining to the dumbasses who are attacking me.
I know that there is a lot of work to be done. I did not get to watch the meet and only had this forum to follow which was apocalyptic last night.
Today I was on Instagram and saw this account from ground zero by James Kelly. You see the attempted throw and Tom grabs Terry. Then not sure if Tom or Terry run off the mat and jumps or hurdles over the announcers table and disappears into the crowd. It looked like pandemonium or like we just snatched a win from certain doom. That ending was still exciting and showed Iowa fans going crazy. I would want my kids to wrestle in a place with coaches and a team and fans with this much passion for the sport. Not sure about the rest of you but I have always been in this for the long haul which is a lifetime of Hawkeye wrestling!!! Go Hawks!!
You remind me of a politician just randomly calling people names. I’m the one asking questions. I’m the one trying to discuss things. If you don’t agree with me, fine I have no problem with that. But let’s not call each other names please. All I hear is shit thrown against the wall against me. There is some discussion, but the name callers aren’t having any discussion at all. But you calling me names might enhance your status with your “friends” here on HR.
I will try to be as clear as possible. You are getting flack because u admittedly don't know how to make it better, but simply expect it to be better than what Brands is doing.
In my opinion, there is only one coaching staff that is better than Iowa's and they happen to be at a University that has the best facilities, funding(RTC) and by far the best recruiting hotbed. Beating PSU in the current landscape may not even change if you put PSU's staff In charge of Iowa.
After that, I only see 2 other coaches in the 2nd tier with Brands. Smith and Ryan. Smith is in a similar situation with Brands with Oklahoma not producing the recruits like Pennsylvania and Ohio. As a result he hasn't won in over 10 years.
Finally, you have Ryan. He is a great CEO, but admittedly benefits from being a part of the most powerful athletic department in DI and Ohio recruiting.
After that, I see NOONE that could do more than what Brands has done with Iowa. In short, it isn't the Brands that has Iowa fighting for 2-4 instead of 1st. It is demographics and funding. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
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Well know it must turn you off but otherwise call me delusional...don’t think throwing the chair has hurt Cael any. But then he does have extra money to make up for it and don’t think bending the rules has hurt him much with parents either...do you? BTW I did see a finger touch the ref’s back but must have missed your exaggerated slap attack.
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Nah...you’re just here to bitch about TnT. When things are going good, you don’t have a kind word to say if you show up at all. That’s your agenda, you’ve made it clear. Art doesn’t like them either but he is here otherwise talking about other stuff.
Thanks, I guess.
I also want to point out that I really try to avoid criticizing the wrestlers themselves. Nobody works harder than a D1 wrestler; these are tough kids working hard and trying like hell to do as well as possible. There have been some personalities and antics that I don't like, but I avoid talking about that.
I do believe, however, that coaches are fair game. They are well compensated, and they are adults who should behave like that; and they represent our college and our state for a lot longer than four years.
Yeah, TNT's personalities aren't my cup of tea. I think not living in Iowa I view them with a different perspective. But I could live with that if they were getting the job done. But they simply are not. From recruiting to development to representing our university, I am not happy. I'm not calling for them to be fired (it would be irrelevant if I did.) But I don't see them as irreplaceable, and we are two or three more down years away from me feeling like we need a change.
And, yes, I do enjoy talking about anything wrestling. It's just hard to talk about anything else after a night like last night.
How about this -- I'm tired of refs basically ignoring the new OB rule. I think there should be a stall warning every time they go OB from neutral. Stop giving refs an out.
Thanks, I guess.
I also want to point out that I really try to avoid criticizing the wrestlers themselves. Nobody works harder than a D1 wrestler; these are tough kids working hard and trying like hell to do as well as possible. There have been some personalities and antics that I don't like, but I avoid talking about that.
I do believe, however, that coaches are fair game. They are well compensated, and they are adults who should behave like that; and they represent our college and our state for a lot longer than four years.
Yeah, TNT's personalities aren't my cup of tea. I think not living in Iowa I view them with a different perspective. But I could live with that if they were getting the job done. But they simply are not. From recruiting to development to representing our university, I am not happy. I'm not calling for them to be fired (it would be irrelevant if I did.) But I don't see them as irreplaceable, and we are two or three more down years away from me feeling like we need a change.
And, yes, I do enjoy talking about anything wrestling. It's just hard to talk about anything else after a night like last night.
How about this -- I'm tired of refs basically ignoring the new OB rule. I think there should be a stall warning every time they go OB from neutral. Stop giving refs an out.
Like I said, an opinion is an opinion. I disagree with you but oh well...it comes up once or twice a year with you but then there are other things you discuss on a constant basis. I know you love the Hawks and are a fan instead of just showing up when its time to heap it on TnT after a bad dual or in mid-March. Coaches are fair game...I think wrestlers are too as long as its kept to what happened on the mat. For example, why Young didn't shoot with 15 seconds left against Rider. Big difference between that and the Young is a bust type of talk from a few which is just asinine.
Smitty is happy where he is, and will never leave unless Misery drops wrestling.
Dropping Tom Brands would be a terrible mistake at this point in time. I see no upside in that at all, and no one on the horizon who would do a better job than TB in the current state of D1 college wrestling. And yes, I'd say that the position IS only open to former wrestlers who wrestled sometime in the state of Iowa. That would include Carl, Ryan, and Dresser, although none of them would be interested.
That’s One of mine points. You don’t like what I say, so you claim I don’t like anything at all. Read my posts. that’s not true. You are like a politician who says that the person that disagrees with them just hates everybody. It’s fake news!
He also likes to post lies from his sources which would only be done by someone with an agenda.
What are you talking about? What are my lies from my “sources” and when have I posted them? I’ve asked you that before and you can’t answer it. Stop saying it over and over without proof.
Oh wait... Just spoke with my “sources” and they say you are an annoying douche.
Hmm...you seem very familiar sounding. With your sad claims of “lies” to anything I say. Pretty sure you actually spent money to create another login name. So sad.
At the meet Terry touching the ref was not noticeable at all. In the heat of the moment I doubt many noticed. I didn't see it until it was posted on HR
MSU, I generally find your opinions fair and insightful, but I think describing coaches Brands and Smith as "2nd tier" is inaccurate and insulting.
I don't think Cael and co at PSU are any better coaches than Brands or Smith. Cael struggled vs Iowa when he was coach at ISU.
No, it's not coaching that separates PSU from anyone else, it's recruiting. If recruiting is done on a level playing field, then it's fair to say that's part of coaching. I'm not convinced the playing field is level at this point... too many rumors about wrestling club promises, delayed payments, summer camp employment, slush funds and other financial garbage.
Currently Brands is trying to take HS wrestlers who were not even in the top 150, such as Gunther, Bowman, Glynn, Glosser, Stickley, or #146 Laux and turn them into AA's and champions. That's a tall order.
By contrast, since moving to PA, Cael is taking the very best HS wrestlers and trying to keep performing at a high level.
I'm with you. For instance this recruiting year who do we have coming our way? It's pretty fricking dismal...of the top 100 we have 17 and 80, and we're only getting 80 because it's Brand's son. I'm trying to be positive going forward, but in order to turn the corner we need to pick up studs every year...and red-shirting so we look better the next couple years is doing nothing for us in our quest to get studs now. Us barely squeaking by the Illini thanks to that ding dong HWT from IL trying to flip Sammy, and then following that up with a loss at Rutgers next Friday will not inspire the super studs to come to Iowa. I say pull the shirt on 97, and the same for Lee and the Bull if they're healthy, so young studs out there can see that Iowa is trending up instead of falling farther behind. If we finish outside the top 10 this year, which based on what I saw against the Illini is very possible we're going to have a hell of a time convincing people to come to this prestigious wrestling college. And while PA is probably the best recruiting state in the land, Cael and company have been doing a good job of finding studs elsewhere (TX, MN, CA, etc.) so we can't blame it all on the fact that he gets to pull from PA. And I'm not bitter, I'm just tired of making excuses for this team every year. We need to do better and we need to do it now. And banking on everyone being healthy next year is BS; if they're healthy this year, let's get them out there and see what they can do. I mean there's a realistic chance that Warner could make it to finals this year and Lee could do significant damage, if not take it all, if he's healthy, so why in the world do we not want to wrestle them if they're healthy vice waiting for next year when they could become injured? And I'm clearly not as smart as some of you, nor do I pretend to be, but I just feel that if we want talent to come our way, we have to show that we have what it takes to be at least a top 5 team every year, and with what we have on the floor now (at least based on our performance Friday) we'll be lucky if we finish in the top 12-13...
You're the sad one. Speaking like a politician's twitter feed won't get you anywhere here.
You stated our guys never get a day off. I told you what days to attend open practice to see for yourself that was a lie. You chose to ignore that and call names.
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Kids and parents understand a team having a rebuilding year. All that usually means is that you have some money available for them. If the Hawks have a year outside the top 6 or even 10, it will not be the end of the world as we know it.
The fact that they have not won a title in 7 years and are trending downward is what hurts recruiting the most. IMHO How do you correct that? Guess correctly on which kids are going to be successful and land a bunch of them.
Being viewed as arrogant, bullies, boring hurt recruiting a lot a lot also. It seems like the staff knows this and are trying to correct it.
Actions speak louder than words. If you think opposing coaches will not be showing Terry touching the ref and saying what an out of control whacko he is, I think you are naive. So hopefully Morningstar and the team will have an answer to those accusations. The battle of perceptions needs to be fought.
Most people are not capable of determining the genuine from the false and the real from the fake. Unfortunately, just being real and genuine are not always enough. Even if there is life out there - it is still a battle in every sense of the word. TnT have not even been fighting the battle on one of the fronts and it is showing. I fully expect changes to occur soon and the results will show.
The fact that they have not won a title in 7 years and are trending downward is what hurts recruiting the most. IMHO How do you correct that? Guess correctly on which kids are going to be successful and land a bunch of them.
Being viewed as arrogant, bullies, boring hurt recruiting a lot a lot also. It seems like the staff knows this and are trying to correct it.
Actions speak louder than words. If you think opposing coaches will not be showing Terry touching the ref and saying what an out of control whacko he is, I think you are naive. So hopefully Morningstar and the team will have an answer to those accusations. The battle of perceptions needs to be fought.
Most people are not capable of determining the genuine from the false and the real from the fake. Unfortunately, just being real and genuine are not always enough. Even if there is life out there - it is still a battle in every sense of the word. TnT have not even been fighting the battle on one of the fronts and it is showing. I fully expect changes to occur soon and the results will show.
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I don't agree with your 2nd tier comment either. Way off IMO. And, how can you not mention Rob Koll?
First off, never saw your reply or challenge to me so there’s that. Secondly, you repeatedly say I lie and I ask for evidence and that’s what you come up with? Are you unhappy with life? Did I cause you to lose your job or girlfriend? That’s your evidence? Some of us have jobs and can’t see every post or have time to sign up under different names like you. The Brands mentality is never to take a day off. Tom will tell you that. I could find numerous Brands quotes alluding to that. That doesn’t mean they go every single day 365 days a year. They have to take days off my friend. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the perception in the College wrestling community is that Brands has had Iowa wrestlers overtrain. That’s one possibility why many of our seniors have been injured so much. As stated before, I believe Brands has improved making sure we are physically healthy. He even says he has in interviews. It has been used negatively against Iowa. I’ve heard from guys who know college wrestling and speak with coaches that PSU markets the days off thing to its wrestlers. You can disagree with me. You can not like what I have to say, you can say I am anti Brands, but I am not making stuff up. I have consistently for a couple of years saying we need to hire a recruiting coordinator and more staffers. I have never said Brands should be fired now. I have been offering solutions. When someone posts something you don’t agree with you 1) accuse them of lies over and over. 2) say they hate everything and hate Brands 3) say that this person “thinks they know everything” 4) say this person “only bitches and doesn’t offer solutions”. All wrong arguments. Clearly you dislike me. That is fine, I don’t care. But don’t let your dislike of me cloud your posts. You come off as petty. Eventually you will get banned again and have to create your 4th or 5th login name.
Step away from the ledge. LOL at the concept that the only way we could sign the # 80 recruit is if it is Terry's kid. He is currently #60 on intermat BTW and I like him as well as any kids in this years Iowa HS class. Rossel is not just refering to the PA talent as the reason why PSU is so effective in recruiting.
Not a rumer, not what other “guys who know wrestling”say, not what you have heard said but the actual turth and what happens: last two Wednesday’s wrestlers worked on their own and or were told they did not have to wrestle at all up to them, last Sunday was a day off do not come in and do not wrestle. Those are not the only instances it has been like that since practice started. So fact trumps rumors. We don’t need other coaches of other teams booster’s to perpetuate the negative perceptions about how Iowa does things our own fans do a great job of doing it here all by themselves. Some on here do more to hinder recruiting than any other school can possibly do.
I like Koll a lot, but I just couldn't put him in that group because I don't think he has truly challenged for a Team Title and I don't think he ever will. But, I do think he is as good as anyone at developing Individual talent.
You are entitled to your opinion. I have been pretty obvious about not being a Sanderson fan. But, that doesn't mean I can't see what is in front of me. What Sanderson has accomplished puts him ahead of everyone else, period. And I say that as a huge fan of the Brands brothers.
Finally, I don't think the 2nd tier is light years away from Sanderson. I just think Sanderson's name alone puts him ahead of them by enough to have a tier separation. This is apparent in the recruiting aspect. On a year by year basis, recruiting in a vacuum with no team affiliation, I would still expect Sanderson to outrecruit Brands, Smith and Ryan and I would have that group firmly ahead of anyone but Koll.
Would you still put Sanderson over everyone with total compliance oversite and being held to a strict 9.9 scholarship limit with no extra funding involved? Pretty sure it would have changed at least one top recruit’s decision this year. Not being argumentive as i like your posts but just sayin...it is what it is.
Also, it isn't an insult to consider 3 guys in a 2nd tier(all alone from the rest of the coaches, mind you) behind the coach that has won 6 of the last 7.
Recruiting IS a part of coaching, and in today's landscape it is the most important aspect. Even when Sanderson was green at ISU, he was a super strong recruiter. His name recognition simply stands alone. In addition, he has put together an incredible staff and an RTC that no one can compete with. If you want to use PSU as a university against him, that is fine. But, he still was the 1st coach to do this there. It's not like inferior coaches were just tearing it up at PSU before he got there.
Again, I am not known for being a Sandersonite. His personality in person rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning and the Bubba Jenkins situation cemented my opinion of him. But, with that said, I simply can't ignore what he has been able to accomplish. Trust me, I don't like saying it and would be quite happy to insert Brands into that description if I could.
Recruiting IS a part of coaching, and in today's landscape it is the most important aspect. Even when Sanderson was green at ISU, he was a super strong recruiter. His name recognition simply stands alone. In addition, he has put together an incredible staff and an RTC that no one can compete with. If you want to use PSU as a university against him, that is fine. But, he still was the 1st coach to do this there. It's not like inferior coaches were just tearing it up at PSU before he got there.
Again, I am not known for being a Sandersonite. His personality in person rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning and the Bubba Jenkins situation cemented my opinion of him. But, with that said, I simply can't ignore what he has been able to accomplish. Trust me, I don't like saying it and would be quite happy to insert Brands into that description if I could.
Yes. You could have taken Retherford away from last year's team and they still win easily. You could cut their production by 20% across the past 7 years and he would still be the most successful Head Coach by far over that period. Admittedly, he wouldn't have won 6 but he still would have won more than any and be squarely in the top 3 the other years.
Also, I have questioned how he is doing the recruiting as much as anyone. I agree that the numbers don't add up. But, even if he is loopholing and that aspect was shored up, he would STILL be out recruiting everyone. Simply put, he is the biggest name in DI wrestling and earned that by being the only undefeated DI wrestler. He has now proven that he can create a ridiculous amount of team and individual titles. He IS going to be one of the 1st guys almost every elite wrestler is going to want to wrestle for simply because of that.
Right now, he has simply accomplished too much for anyone to fairly be put on his level. Now, if something comes out that has enough legs to truly tarnish his reputation,this could change. But, other than that, I don't see anyone getting to his level on a truly consistent basis.
I don't mean to make a huge deal out of this - but here goes. Over the last seven NCAA championships Cornell has significantly out-performed Missouri at the NCAAs -
Average NCAA team points 2011 - 2017: Iowa 86.78, Cornell 73.28, and Missouri 54.78.
Ok, I never said Iowa wrestlers don't take days off. Giving me an example of an Iowa guy taking a day off doesn't prove anything. We are talking in circles and are never going to agree, so I will just move on. My only agenda is hoping Iowa Wrestling becomes elite again.
This is the thing I keep shaking my head about. Iowa wrestling is still elite. I know a lot of you guys only judge elite by whether or not they win the NCAA title, but I still say Iowa wrestling is elite.
That's slogan, not an agenda. If you use English instead of politician, someone may listen. I do like your idea about you moving on though.
The criteria of elite is different for people. Some consider it only titles, some as being considered legitimate title contenders and some consider it to be where it is at currently. The BB and FB visitors say 'top 10? Great' the wrestling people know better.
Sanderson at ISU:
3 years asst coach
3 years head coach
Zero team championships.
While his recruiting was good at ISU, it was nothing like what he's been doing at PSU. Somehow PSU has turned into a recruiting juggernaut without peer.
As evidenced by the just finished Lehigh meet, when Cael doesn't put out one of his top 10 p4p'ers, his guys struggle.... just like those of who you call 2nd and 3rd tier coaches.
Trust me, I don't like defending Sanderson, but do you really think trying to use his very 1st 3 years as a head coach against him is a strong argument, considering his teams finished 2nd,5th and 3rd? It's not like they were tearing it up before he took over, either.
The 4 years immediately after he graduated they finished 19th,6th,10th and 13th and that was why they pushed Douglas out/up to fit Sanderson in before he ended up going somewhere else. To me, what he did there was even more telling as he was doing it at the clear #2 school in the state.
All of the above still completely ignores the fact that he absolutely gained more experience and became a better coach at multiple aspects.
Finally, I wouldn't really use a win(they still didn't lose) over arguably the number 3 dual team in the country to make a negative point while having their starter out at 133 and a NC at 165.. It's not like they struggled with Iowa State.
Believe me, I want to see Iowa beat PSU as badly as any of you and that is said knowing how many of you guys are homers(don't twist that into a bad thing, it is meant to be respect for your dedication) to the extreme. I just simply see too much data to put any other coach on par with him right now.
The 4 years immediately after he graduated they finished 19th,6th,10th and 13th and that was why they pushed Douglas out/up to fit Sanderson in before he ended up going somewhere else. To me, what he did there was even more telling as he was doing it at the clear #2 school in the state.
All of the above still completely ignores the fact that he absolutely gained more experience and became a better coach at multiple aspects.
Finally, I wouldn't really use a win(they still didn't lose) over arguably the number 3 dual team in the country to make a negative point while having their starter out at 133 and a NC at 165.. It's not like they struggled with Iowa State.
Believe me, I want to see Iowa beat PSU as badly as any of you and that is said knowing how many of you guys are homers(don't twist that into a bad thing, it is meant to be respect for your dedication) to the extreme. I just simply see too much data to put any other coach on par with him right now.
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