Illinois Dual Thread
- Thread starter jmadden1998
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There is nobody, coaches, wrestlers or fans that should be OK with what we are seeing right now. It's not a close 2nd place and the standard here is different.
I don't know how anyone could defend it to be honest.
I don't know about that, but I sure feel like our wrestlers just aren't showing a significant amount of improvement during their years at Iowa. Spencer is still the freshman Spencer who rocked the world as a freshmen. Cass is a lighter version but still about the same level, though I'm hoping he will get to the finals and bring home the gold. Murin is R12 every year but hoping this is his year to AA. Brands? No better. Assad? Higher winning percentage this year, but has only faced one really good opponent in Coleman (a loss). Warner? Made finals last year but looks very average now (faced two quality opponents and lost to them both). I think PK looks good already and am hoping he can improve. Am I missing anyone? All of that said, our incoming recruits look really good and I'm hoping we can make them better, but based on past results I just don't know. And know that I'm not in the TnT needs to go camp. I think we have the best available coaches so thinking or talking about replacing them is silly. But I do think we need to quit inbreeding. Quit hiring our guys who just graduated and get some new fricking blood in here. There are wrestlers from other schools who are winning individual championships, some of them multiple times. Let's get some of those guys into our system. Let's see what some new blood can bring to the our program. TnT cannot do it all. They can't wrestle with JWAR and get him better; they can't spar with Assad. We need to bring in some power hammers to work with our guys in the room...at least that's what sounds logical to me. But then again, I don't have anywhere near the subject matter expertise that most of you have, nor do I ever get access to the room so I don't know what's going on in there. But I do know what's not going on, and that's improvement in our offense. Right now we look very mediocre for an Iowa team and in my opinion it's because at many weights we are showing zero interest in scoring points...even against much weaker opponents.
I don't disagree; I'm just pissed at how shitty he wrestled tonight.
they need to pick up recruiting. The number of NCAA champions between Metcalf and Spencer Lee is not up to the standard Gable set. Or what Penn St has produced. It's a massive fail if looked at objectively.
It's ignored because we love Tom and Terry but it's still a major fail.
If Spencer Lee wouldn't have committed it would be 13 years between titles right now and Iowa would be no different than Arizona St or Iowa St. back in the day.
It's ignored because we love Tom and Terry but it's still a major fail.
If Spencer Lee wouldn't have committed it would be 13 years between titles right now and Iowa would be no different than Arizona St or Iowa St. back in the day.
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Let's not get crazy. Spencer? Better. Murin? Better. Kennedy? Better. Warner? Better. Cass? Better.
This was a mediocre performance, and were obviously behind Penn State right now, but let's not lose our grip on reality.
This was a mediocre performance, and were obviously behind Penn State right now, but let's not lose our grip on reality.
That's not Iowa; that's a person who is frustrated with the limp dick performance we saw tonight. The issues we have at Iowa are Iowa issues and if Carl and company beat us then we own it. And no, you don't have a team of SLs; not even close. And though you have a very talented team, we had a chance to do everything you did to pull together that very talented team. I can't stand whining, and I hate when Iowa fans always blame Carl and company for the failure we may or may not have. Iowa needs to fix Iowa issues and our fans need to quit pointing fingers and grasping for excuses. Here's to hoping that our band of current underachievers can somehow dismantle some of your hammers later this month...or even better come March.
Yep, cause he just got his ass handed to him by someone he should have dismantled by the end of the 2nd period so he could cruise to victory in the 3rd. I'm thinking that limp was temporary pain from the TD and even more pain from his pride being damaged.
I didn't know we had a f**king strategy tonight. I know Spencer, Max, PK and Tony did, but I'm not sure the team did.
That may explain why he didn't score in the final 3 seconds of the match, but doesn't explain the other 6:57.
I'm willing to bet that unless he gets the worst possible draw (see Marinelli's a couple of those years he was seeded first or second) PK beats everyone not named Keegan, Carr and maybe Griffith (who I think he will have a chance against). I also think Quincy goes back to 157 once he realizes the gauntlet he'll have to survive if he stays at 65. He has a chance to win at 57; he has a slim to no chance of beating Keegan, Carr and Griffith on his way to a victory in my humble opinion. I think PK will be as good as Hamiti, Amine and Ramirez come March, and frankly I think he can beat at least 2 of them now. Hamiti would be a brawl. Just my take. I like our guy. He didn't look great against Carr, but he'll get there; he's moving in the right direction unlike some of our fellas.
Do tell where I'm wrong, with the one possible exception being Warner, who definitely shows up at NCAAs. Cass was top 3 first couple years; 7th last year; SL of course is 1; Murin R12 every year; Warner in the finals last year so yes, improved at NCAAs each year; Kennedy is in his first year as a starter...he came as a hammer and is still a hammer. So aside from Warner's improvements at NCAAs, please do tell me about the other improvements. I think I have a good grip on reality but perhaps I'm missing something. And I'm not trying to bash the program; I'm merely stating that I'm not seeing improvements based on where they were then and the ladder they've climbed in March through the years...
Tonite might change a few minds about how the coaching staff should approach the Ferrari situation.
Without knowing the situation at 133, if he's close to healthy, Teske better get every match the balance of the season. We know the alternative won't even qualify for Nattys.
Without knowing the situation at 133, if he's close to healthy, Teske better get every match the balance of the season. We know the alternative won't even qualify for Nattys.
I'm not so sure I agree 100% with your policework there Mark. The stall out was a given based on how that match was going, if Cass didn't finally turn that stump. Guess how many team points that's worth?
Now tell me the one, single way that Cass could lose that match, as far-fetched as it seems? You got it, getting thrown to his back. And that risk aside, guess how many team points that "feet to back" move was going to be worth?
All things considered riding and either getting the DQ or the fall was the smarter move.
Oh we're going with the flu card tonight? I figured we just "trained through this dual"
The fact that they left it up to recruits the calibur of Schriever, Siebrecht and Brands to man the spots in the first place is where the problem starts and frankly they got bailed out big time for their recruiting failures by luckily getting Lugo, ADS, Eierman and Woods as unexpected transfers. 4 of the 5 guys who lost tonight are Iowa natives. After tonight they might be down to 3 top 10 ten ranked guys on the whole team.
"Hand fighting for 6:30 and trying to win in the end"
You unfortunately just described most the team's style under Brands.
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I hope you are right, even though Braunagel has been wrestling well this year I can't equate beating him to top 5 at that meat grinder of a weight.
The problem with being able to bring in other guys is the Brands and their us against the world bravado have created just that. They are not especially liked by other programs and their wrestlers and coaches. That philosophy and their behavior have hurt the team on many levels.
This one bugs the hell out of me. Of course teams are strategizing against us. We need to recruit better athletes and guys that can scramble. Grinders, snap downs, and collar ties can by stymied nowadays, especially if they won’t call stalling like they did 15 yrs ago.
We need guys that can finish dirty shots and create angles using speed not just strength. With the improvements in defensive wrestling and conditioning, having a lineup thats 50% grinder types gets us what we’ve gotten the past decade.
The thing that really bothers me most is that our grinders don’t take enough shots, yet they often look gassed in the third. WTH is up with that? Conditioning can still win matches, but not when you’re not making the other team wrestle and fend off your shots. Chain wrestling was awful against Illinois. Half the time there wasn’t even an attempt at a shot and then a re-shot.
It seems as though a good majority of Iowa wrestlers this past decade lack the confidence in their ability to get a takedown if they give one up early being to aggressive. This philosophy is the antithesis of Iowa wrestling. Pace works, but it can’t just be words. Get after it. Make the other guys work and when they get tired you’ll find that your snaps and collar ties are easier to get to. You’ll find the angles, but you have to take them into deep water.
We have too many guys who can't swim or won't swim when it comes to taking people into deep water.
Are you all ready to admit that Brands should be recruiting over kids to put the best possible team on the mat or do you still want that dirt bag Cael being the only one doing it?
And Dub, the question isn't really directed at you. The ones who should be answering the question knows who they are. I only quoted you to ask the question because you're one of the few that thought they were idiots for thinking recruiting over kids was a bad thing.
I know there was a stat out there about Penn State guys as number 1 and 2 seeds at NCAA’s. The last decade every single one has made the finals basically. And PSU is going to likely have three defending champs at number one seeds, another defending champ at 197, and a seemingly improved heavyweight who is seeded number one currently. That’s scary.
The issue I see is that there’s not a whole lot of emerging talent ready to step in. There should be a fresh wave of talent in the room this year, with both last years and this years recruits, and I just don’t see it. Why? That’s 100% on TnT. There should be plenty of money. You don’t wait until a stud is gone to backfill.
Iowa recruiting hasn’t caught up to PSU. Nobody has caught PSU, they're on their own recruiting island. They now have the best college program in the world, the best FS club in the world, and a soon-to-be top MMA club in the world. And they got NIL money to throw around. PSU recruiting is only going to get better in the coming years. Until Cael leaves, the race for team titles is over.
The problem i see is that everyone else has caught Iowa for dibs on what’s left after PSU chooses. NIL has changed everything. East coast and major city teams have a huge advantage. And with the new schools entering the B10, more kids on the west coast will be staying home.
I'd be happy if he actually started recruiting kids. When he actually gets blue chip high end AA caliber wrestlers recruited for all the weights then I'll worry about if he should be recruiting over them.
It’s currently 2023. Most kids in the recruiting pipeline have not been alive long enough to see Iowa win all that much from a team or individual standpoint. For a program that seems to largely depend on clout and past achievements to drive the ship forward, the captain(s) may need to adopt a different approach.
“Because we’re Iowa” doesn’t work anymore. See: Oklahoma State.
Majority of the night was a snooze fest.
Thought it was a pretty decent crowd for Illinois.
Favorite part of the night was watching Laura Vandeberg walk back and forth in front of me. She looked as good as ever and I’m pretty sure she had a baby bump. She’s a goddess.
Thought it was a pretty decent crowd for Illinois.
Favorite part of the night was watching Laura Vandeberg walk back and forth in front of me. She looked as good as ever and I’m pretty sure she had a baby bump. She’s a goddess.
If those west coast teams add wrestling to their athletics programs.
Basically Kennedy and Ayala are the only 2 legit blue chip recruits he has gotten to back fill for the championship team currently on the roster, Chittum basically there too (they initially pissed on their shoes recruiting him). Last year was a complete wasted year of recruiting other than a couple of hopefuls in Riggins and Franklin, the rest were room guys. They haven't exactly been super successful with hopefuls and early returns on those two are not showing AA level any time soon. They broke out of their crappy recruiting philosophy briefly when getting Spencer and company but have fallen right back into it. I don't like Dresser but I think even he is better at identifying talent. Moving forward Arnold looks the part, Kueter is a question, we don't even know what we will get there with football factored in. Jesuroga looks to be out. They are failing to identify and obtain the talent needed to win future titles. Evaluation needs improvement and effort needs improvement. Other coaches are going to big tournaments, being seen and networking with kids. If they actually think they can win titles with what they are often bringing in, mid tier recruiting, then they over estimate their coaching abilities and under estimate what the competition is doing.
I saw Askren interview Spencer a couple years ago, and Spencer flat out asked him what his problem was with Iowa. Askren said TnT are always talking “offense” and “scoring points” but that in reality we always have a bunch of guys whose style is just the opposite. We tie-up, push around, and just try to either tire the other guy out or make a mistake.
Spencer actually did not disagree with the assessment.
9.9 scholarships is not or should not be an issue with NIL.
Brands mentioned in his interview that Warner has had an ongoing issue with that knee, tbf.
I knew I was going to miss Austin Desanto wrestling but had no idea how much.
I think as leaders of men and ambassadors of the iowa program, TNT are great in that aspect. You can tell our wrestlers respect and enjoy them as coaches and know they will 100% have their back. Their track record of developing light weights is irrefutable as well. But anyone that is honest with themselves can see they lack developing guys at the heavier weights, specific match game planning is weak, and our team as a whole is not very good at scrambling. The general philosophy of hand fighting and conditioning is outdated and needs a change. It seems our guys are scared to shoot against equal opponents because they feel they’re at a disadvantage if they don’t finish quickly and cleanly.
It’s time to take a hard look at finding a middle/upper weight coach from outside of the program that has a track record of developing guys at those weights and someone that can coach 50/50 positions into 70/30 positions for our guys.
It’s time to take a hard look at finding a middle/upper weight coach from outside of the program that has a track record of developing guys at those weights and someone that can coach 50/50 positions into 70/30 positions for our guys.
