Why is anyone worried about next year where we still have half a season left??
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Yeah, they’re really struggling with low-ranked recruit Cassar at HWY
How is Teske struggling early in his career? He's 2-1, with a win over a NQ in his first tournament as a true freshman. Loss to a very tough and physical PA kid who is balls out on the mat. Teske looks like he's still in HS physically. Anyone who expected more from him at this point is not really thinking clearly. And, no, this isn't hindsight being 20/20. I posted as much on the BWI Scuffle thread before he hit Werner if you care to go over. No way he was ready physically to match up with a horse like Werner. Will take some time before he's ready for that. I like him - he's a scrapper with a motor, but has a ways to develop physically before he's ready for the 145lb 125ers. I would think the Scuffle was a very positive result for him with the win over Laney.
He's not Spencer Lee, Sebastian Rivera or Pat Glory, but he's going to be good at some point.
"In weights that PSU doesn't get an elite recruit they struggle"
Rasheed: HS ranking in the 40s, currently ranked 3rd, 2018 AA
Cassar: HS not ranked top 100, currently ranked 5th
Frank Molinaro: HS ranking in the 40s, National Champ, 2x Finalist, 4xAA, Olympian.
Matt Brown: HS ranking in the 70s, National Champ, 2x Finalist, 3xAA
Jordan Conaway: HS not ranked top 100, 2xAA.
James English: HS not ranked top 100, 1xAA.
Another Fail by Rossel.
Cassar was 45-0 as a senior. Was the 2015 Jr National Champion, and made the Jr World team. I understand he is low ranked compared to the normal slush fund baby, but he isn't some project to be used as a sign of Carla's development.Yeah, they’re really struggling with low-ranked recruit Cassar at HWY
Not possible. Cassar graduated high school before MiklusCassar was 45-0 as a senior. Was the 2015 Jr National Champion, and made the Jr World team. I understand he is low ranked compared to the normal slush fund baby, but he isn't some project to be used as a sign of Carla's development.
Really? How high up the board was Rasheed?Go on chickn guy name a few more out of the top p4p guys that are excelling. And mind you Cassar is a 5th year senior and still may be lucky to AA. I think you have a better chance with Rasheed who was a very high recruit.
Even if the point that Kemmer and Marinilli are top end is conceded, when doing a 2020 PSU vs Iowa comparison PSU at 165 and 174 > Iowa at 165 and 174.PSU has RBY, Lee, Joseph, Hall as sure-fire AAs and possible-to-likely finalists. 4 there.
Then Verk, Berge, Brooks, Beard as potential-to-likely AA's. 4 more there.
Cassar very likely to get an extra year. That makes 9.
If Rasheed gets another year (not as clear-cut a call), slot him in as a more proven AA threat in place of Brooks/Beard, depending on whatever plan the wrestlers and coaching staff work out.
I see a comparable number of potential-to-likely AA's between the two teams, with a comparable amount of top-end talent. Especially considering that your list forgets Kemerer.
Top End
• S. Lee, Kemerer, Marinelli
• N. Lee, Joseph, Hall, Cassar
Just a Notch Below
• DeSanto, Young, Cassioppi
• RBY, (Rasheed?)
In The Discussion
• Murin, Lugo, Wilcke
• Verkleeren, Berge, Brooks, Beard
Who The Hell Knows
• Warner
• Teske/Teasdale
If I'm accurate in that assessment, the "In The Discussion" group will be the ultimate difference-maker, with Warner being a potentially huge disruptor, and Rasheed being another X-factor.
Very close call to make at this point in time.
Recognizing talent, successfully recruiting said talent and then developing that talent is pretty much the definition of a successful coach.No fail FT, just facts.
Rasheed and Molinaro were both ranked in top 50 p4p, so not exactly chopped liver.
Cassar and Rasheed to date, have a single AA finish (7th place by Rasheed, none by Cassar).
Brown is a relative rarity, ranked lower coming out of HS, but who did develop into an elite wrestler.
Conaway and English...*yawn*.... you've really tried to milk that too often FT. So English becomes an AA for the first time in 6 years at PSU, getting 7th place. Conaway got an 8th place and 6th place finish.
That's about it. FT has his list of the rare overachiever at PSU, spanning nearly a decade, to tout Cael's magic. You conveniently ignore several much higher rated recruits who fell short of expectations... D Alton, A Alton, Gulibon.
Some guys will overachieve and others underachieve. Every team has them. BFD.
The bigger point is, PSU really doesn't depend on developing lower ranked guys. They don't need to. Most of their lineup consists of extremely highly ranked recruits. No other school has matched the recruits over the extended period since Cael arrived.
Intermat listed their final best at each weight in 2011:
103 Tomasello
112 Ashnault
119 Gulibon
125 Megaludis
130 Thielke
135 H Stieber
140 Tsirtsis
145 Hodgkins
152 McCauley
160 Hammond
171 Storley
189 McIntosh (wrestler of the year)
215 Hall
285 Longendyke
PSU ended up with 3 of those top tier guys.
By contrast, in 2011, Iowa got none. They did recruit #55 Klaprodt, #108 Grothus, and #136 Rhoades.
That's the way things have gone for many years now. tOSU has picked up in the last few years, and Iowa has managed to get a few top 10. But PSU led everybody in getting top tier recruits for many years.
Recognizing talent, successfully recruiting said talent and then developing that talent is pretty much the definition of a successful coach.
Seems to me you just acknowledged the Sanderson brothers and staff are a vastly superior coaching staff compared to the Brands brothers and staff. Something you and I can agree on.
Even if the point that Kemmer and Marinilli are top end is conceded, when doing a 2020 PSU vs Iowa comparison PSU at 165 and 174 > Iowa at 165 and 174.
The idea Iiwa may be the team to beat in 2020 is outside of fandom just silly.
125 Iowa >>> PSU
133 PSU > Iowa
141 PSU >> Iowa
149 Iowa > PSU
157 PSU > Iowa
165 PSU > Iowa
174 PSU > Iowa
184 PSU > Iowa
197 PSU = Iowa
Hwt PSU > Iowa
It still isn't going to be close.
Recognizing talent, successfully recruiting said talent and then developing that talent is pretty much the definition of a successful coach.
Seems to me you just acknowledged the Sanderson brothers and staff are a vastly superior coaching staff compared to the Brands brothers and staff. Something you and I can agree on.
That is certainly the path paved with logic.I'm going to wait to make calls on who's better at each weight in 2020 until I see more college mat time from some of this year's and next year's freshmen, not to mention other guys wrestling a particular weight for the first time this year or next.
Well you my man are the reason why we cannot have half way decent conversations with psu guys.Really? How high up the board was Rasheed?
Cassar will be lucky to AA?
Christ. Your ability to look at a wrestler be come up with an accurate assessment is non existent.
Recognizing talent, successfully recruiting said talent and then developing that talent is pretty much the definition of a successful coach.
Seems to me you just acknowledged the Sanderson brothers and staff are a vastly superior coaching staff compared to the Brands brothers and staff. Something you and I can agree on.
There is no debate about a level recruiting playing field.Assuming the playing field is level, I completely agree with your first sentence. Whether the field is level is debatable, and questioned by many. A whole topic in itself.
Your second sentence I would change. I would say Sanderson bros and staff are vastly superior to not just Brands, but EVERYONE else regarding bringing in elite recruits.
If one starts out far ahead of everyone else, then it becomes harder to measure "developing talent." Sanderson didn't seem to have the development magic at ISU that you and other PSU fans seem to want to attribute to him now. The biggest difference between his ISU and PSU eras were the quality of recruits.
Using a really stupid example in an effort to make a point is more pathetic than funny.I'm puzzled.... why did you predict this 2020 outcome a moment before:
<<125 Iowa >>> PSU>>
Do you not believe your own words that the "vastly superior" Cael can work his magic, and develop Teske so he overtakes Spencer?
Because your feeling are so easily bruised?Well you my man are the reason why we cannot have half way decent conversations with psu guys.
You clearly just want to spew crap so ignore you go
Using a really stupid example in an effort to make a point is more pathetic than funny.
Why didn't Brands and the best lightweight room just develop Perez-Perez into someone who beats Lee? Why didn't they just develop Glynn,Happel,Turk instead of bringing in JRent and Desanto?I'll take your non answer as an acknowledgement that Cael won't be able to sprinkle his development magic and turn Teske into someone who beats Lee.
Guess the fairy dust only works on guys who are already top 10 and preferably Jr World gold medalists. Got it.
What are PSU fans feelings on Paterno? Is there still a statue? I honestly don' know. I don't care enough to google it and why would I with so many PSU fans here to answer it. Also, good job by you guys ignoring the truth regarding Cassar not being a project.Because your feeling are so easily bruised?
No fail FT, just facts.
Rasheed and Molinaro were both ranked in top 50 p4p, so not exactly chopped liver.
Cassar and Rasheed to date, have a single AA finish (7th place by Rasheed, none by Cassar).
Brown is a relative rarity, ranked lower coming out of HS, but who did develop into an elite wrestler.
Conaway and English...*yawn*.... you've really tried to milk that too often FT. So English becomes an AA for the first time in 6 years at PSU, getting 7th place. Conaway got an 8th place and 6th place finish.
That's about it. FT has his list of the rare overachiever at PSU, spanning nearly a decade, to tout Cael's magic. You conveniently ignore several much higher rated recruits who fell short of expectations... D Alton, A Alton, Gulibon.
Some guys will overachieve and others underachieve. Every team has them. BFD.
The bigger point is, PSU really doesn't depend on developing lower ranked guys. They don't need to. Most of their lineup consists of extremely highly ranked recruits. No other school has matched the recruits over the extended period since Cael arrived.
Intermat listed their final best at each weight in 2011:
103 Tomasello
112 Ashnault
119 Gulibon
125 Megaludis
130 Thielke
135 H Stieber
140 Tsirtsis
145 Hodgkins
152 McCauley
160 Hammond
171 Storley
189 McIntosh (wrestler of the year)
215 Hall
285 Longendyke
PSU ended up with 3 of those top tier guys.
By contrast, in 2011, Iowa got none. They did recruit #55 Klaprodt, #108 Grothus, and #136 Rhoades.
That's the way things have gone for many years now. tOSU has picked up in the last few years, and Iowa has managed to get a few top 10. But PSU led everybody in getting top tier recruits for many years.
Go on chickn guy name a few more out of the top p4p guys that are excelling. And mind you Cassar is a 5th year senior and still may be lucky to AA. I think you have a better chance with Rasheed who was a very high recruit.
Every so often a guy exceeds expectations. Cassar may be one of those guys, but to date he has no AA finish. Pointing out an exception doesn't make the basic point invalid.
Go on chickn guy name a few more out of the top p4p guys that are excelling. And mind you Cassar is a 5th year senior and still may be lucky to AA. I think you have a better chance with Rasheed who was a very high recruit.
Every so often a guy exceeds expectations. Cassar may be one of those guys, but to date he has no AA finish. Pointing out an exception doesn't make the basic point invalid.
Besides, if Cassar falters, Cael can always fall back on yet another top 10 p4p blue chip guy in Nevills, who is an AA.
. . .
The Sanderson brothers have had two guys ranked outside the top 50 who went on to win national titles (Molinaro and Brown)
The Brands brothers have had zero.
I guess every so often happens more often in some places than others.
Did they win?The Brands had two outside the top 100 that should have won - Montell Marion and Daniel Dennis. Hell, with a bogus locked hands call, either would have won.
Did they win?
Rationalization is an excuse's best friend?
You threw a couple outside the top 100 almosts to counter a couple top 50s that did. My response was within the discussion. Not sure why I needed to explain that to you.The topic under discussion is development and exceeding expectations.
You threw a couple outside the top 100 almosts to counter a couple top 50s that did. My response was within the discussion. Not sure why I needed to explain that to you.
You argue like a childDid they win?
Rationalization is an excuse's best friend?
Northwestern can contend next year. Two ranked number one wrestlers ( Deakin and Rivera) Davison , Johnny Sebastian and Yahya Thomas can all AA. Plus you have Valdiviez and Jessen and Tyler Morland. Solid top five team next year
Well in all fairness Molinaro was I believe a 3 or 4 time AA and won one champion ship.. The year he won was the weakest weight in the tourney..He never had to beat a top seed to win it as they where all knocked off so luck can play a major part also..Don't belive me as Oliver vs Steibler Ramos vs Steibler and Marion vs Russell all won on questionable reffs calls. Tough dam sport need luck breaks etc even if u are good or great.
Well in all fairness Molinaro was I believe a 3 or 4 time AA and won one champion ship.. The year he won was the weakest weight in the tourney..He never had to beat a top seed to win it as they where all knocked off so luck can play a major part also..Don't belive me as Oliver vs Steibler Ramos vs Steibler and Marion vs Russell all won on questionable reffs calls. Tough dam sport need luck breaks etc even if u are good or great.
Why didn't Brands and the best lightweight room just develop Perez-Perez into someone who beats Lee? Why didn't they just develop Glynn,Happel,Turk instead of bringing in JRent and Desanto?
Ah yes, the inevitable Rossel backtrack. You said "In weights that PSU doesn't get an elite recruit they struggle". I completely and utterly refuted that statement with a list of wrestlers that were not elite recruits, some not even ranked coming out of high school, that are having or had really good to great careers. That's it, end of discussion, your lose, thanks for playing.
11 current Hawks were ranked higher than Rasheed coming out of high school (Lee, DeSanto, Happel, Murin, Renteria, Young, Bull, Kemerer,
Warner, Stoll, and Cassiopi). Fair to say Iowa has a roster full of “very high recruits”?