Is Iowa trending up?

[dicemen99]

I'll take you up on Sorensen/Zain...GG, will be around to help make sure you find your wallet
NCAA finals that is...if Zain doesn't make it, you owe 50 to GG. If Sorensen doesn't make it, I owe 50. Neither, then we owe bupkus. Deal?

Absolutely. And that was what I was thinking as well, NCAA finals. B1G just an appetizer.

Did Willie just turn me down on my Zain/Sorenson bet, and then ask me again to make the Brooks bet with him in the next sentence???? C'mon, how friggin' funny is that?

 

[sloehawk]

Absolutely. And that was what I was thinking as well, NCAA finals. B1G just an appetizer.

Did Willie just turn me down on my Zain/Sorenson bet, and then ask me again to make the Brooks bet with him in the next sentence???? C'mon, how friggin' funny is that?

What's funny is your lack of being able to supply a simple yes or no answer to his question. Your question was asked and answered. Was there some subliminal message in there throwing you for a loop?

 

[dicemen99]

What's funny is your lack of being able to supply a simple yes or no answer to his question. Your question was asked and answered. Was there some subliminal message in there throwing you for a loop?

I said I would be perfectly willing to accept his bet, if he accepted mine. And basically I thought that he had a better shot of winning his than I did of winning mine. Do you disagree with that?

HiWillie declined my bet. Is it your opinion that I should then accept his? How about a simple yes or no answer to that one???

 

[sloehawk]

I said I would be perfectly willing to accept his bet, if he accepted mine. And basically I thought that he had a better shot of winning his than I did of winning mine. Do you disagree with that.

HiWillie declined my bet. Is it your opinion that I should then accept his? How about a simple yes or no answer to that one???

I must be Nostradamus reincarnated, because I figured you'd pull something exactly like you just did. LOL!

It is my opinion that you should answer him one way or another, since you had no problem doing so beforehand.

He didn't accept your bet, which you clearly acknowledged. Therefore he posed a question to you that didn't come with a caveat.. It's that simple. A Yes or a No.

I can't help you any further. If it's too difficult, consult with some of your PSU Faithful and collectively perhaps you'll figure it out.

 

[dicemen99]

If you can't figure out my response to his bet in either of my answers, perhaps you should consult with some of your HR faithful.

Not unnoticed that you could not reply with a simple yes or no as requested either.

 

[milehighhawkeye24]

What just happened????? LOL should I be placing a bet or something to be on this thread?

 

[dicemen99]

What just happened????? LOL should I be placing a bet or something to be on this thread?

Absolutely, I've got a bet down with AzChief, now I'm looking for someone to take my McCutcheon bet!

 

[dicemen99]

BTW, I will now post my response to HIWILLIE to his bet in simple "yes" or "no" fashion:

NO.

But, since AZChief was such a sport in taking my bet, I will happily take up HiWillie's Brook's AA bet with the first HR poster to respond here that is not named HiWillie or sloehawk. With the $100 going to GG of course.

 

[HIWILLE]

Now, see how easy that was? Case closed

 

[sloehawk]

Now, see how easy that was? Case closed

Thank God. I don't know how your health situation is, but I was keeping my fingers crossed hoping you'd live long enough to see it.................

 

[artradley]

Gilman- Up a spot or two. I figured with Nico coming back he would be below him, but as of right now i think Gilman is above him.

Clark- About the same

Grothus- Here is where i personally think Iowa is WAY up. When i first heard Grothus was going down I wasnt too thrilled. Being on the wrong side of a lot of heavy weight cuts myself, I wanted to see something out of Grothus before I was going to put any stock into him even qualifying for NCAA's. I know he has A LOT to prove still to make a difference, but I think he will make the most improvements from now until Big Tens out of anyone on the team with him getting some more consistent mat time. Maybe im just being too optimistic here tho.

Sorensen- I had him 3rd behind Rutherford and Tshirt. I think he is up now to 2nd.

Coop- Here is another one where i wasnt expecting anything. He has looked like a R16 guy more than 0-2/1-2 guys. Not a lock here by any means to win 2 or 3 matches but i still think its more likely he does.

Rhoads- Once again I was expecting nothing here at NCAA's coming in to the year. Still might get it but he now is looking capable of winning a match or two.

Meyer- Probably the only weight where a guy looks a win or 2 less now than at the beginning of the year. One positive tho is it seems in past years Iowa has gone into NCAA's with 3-5 guys like Meyer who are trending down. This year we only have 1 maybe 2.

Brooks- Probably just about right. Hes had a head scratcher here or there but more often than not he looks like an all american. Plus he can rack up some bonus points.

Burak- Two straight years he has looked capable of making some noise and two straight years he found himself scoring minimal points while wrestling in the 7th/8th match. Once again this was a situation where i wasnt expecting much more until he showed it on the mat. His offense has picked up a lot and I now expect him in the finals or the 3rd/4th place match.

Stoll- Unproven in college yet coming in. Knew he was a decent hand fighter with that greco background, but I thought it would be tough for him to bonus some of the lesser guys. He has now shown he can make the stand and bonus some of his early opponents along the way.

So I'd say 9/10 guys are trending up or even. Heck, from what i have seen in years past id take 9/10 guys just going in to NCAA's even with preseason expectations, but this year we have 5 or so guys who are above that. Where PSU starts to walk away in this one would be the lack of bonus out of Iowa. If Iowa hangs with them it will be because they are picking up bonus.

I guess we differ on our original expectations, and you are much more specific about your expectations.

Gilman
I expected 1-3 finish, and still do.

Clark
I expected 1-4 finish and still do.

Grothus
I hoped he could make 141 and AA, and still do

Sorenson I expected 2-4 finish and still do

Coop
I expected 1 or 2 wins with outside chance of R12, and still do.

Rhoads
I expected nothing and still don't

Meyer
I expected 4-6, but now that seems highly doubtful

Brooks
I expected 3-5, and that's still possible but seems more like 5-8

Burak
I expected 2-4 and still do

Stoll
I thought there was an outside chance he could AA, with a chance of only 1-2 wins. This now seems like a very good chance of AA, and no worse than R12

So seven unchanged, two (Meyers and Brooks) slightly down, and one up.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I guess we differ on our original expectations, and you are much more specific about your expectations.

Gilman
I expected 1-3 finish, and still do.

Clark
I expected 1-4 finish and still do.

Grothus
I hoped he could make 141 and AA, and still do

Sorenson I expected 2-4 finish and still do

Coop
I expected 1 or 2 wins with outside chance of R12, and still do.

Rhoads
I expected nothing and still don't

Meyer
I expected 4-6, but now that seems highly doubtful

Brooks
I expected 3-5, and that's still possible but seems more like 5-8

Burak
I expected 2-4 and still do

Stoll
I thought there was an outside chance he could AA, with a chance of only 1-2 wins. This now seems like a very good chance of AA, and no worse than R12

So seven unchanged, two (Meyers and Brooks) slightly down, and one up.

I agree, but I still expect Brooks to wind up top 5, and Stoll is much better much faster than I guessed. I would say the team is trending up, but it is hard to trend up too much when expectations were high to begin with.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Absolutely, I've got a bet down with AzChief, now I'm looking for someone to take my McCutcheon bet!

Whats the Cutch bet? Edit, just saw it. Thats a pretty silly bet considering he will likely wrestle this friday night and I favor him to beat Courts. Even if he didnt wrestle again until bigs he would get an at large.

 

[dicemen99]

Whats the Cutch bet? Edit, just saw it. Thats a pretty silly bet considering he will likely wrestle this friday night and I favor him to beat Courts. Even if he didnt wrestle again until bigs he would get an at large.

Actually, he would probably only get an at-Large if he finished 1 out of the AQ slot at B1Gs. You finish more than one slot out of qualifying and generally you are done. Forget the actual number of AQs I calculated the B1G would get at 184 (it's over there on my post), but my point was that if McCutcheon did not wrestle any more matches, he would not qualify a spot, AND if he came into the B1Gs with no mat time, he would be seeded probably around 7th, could drop a quarterfinal match and then would need to win two more matches to make the consy semis (which I think was where you needed to be if McCutch did not qualify another spot). So, there WAS a possible scenario for McCutcheon not to qualify. Which seems to be fading as he was reported to be wrestling live with Taylor yesterday. But still possible.

And my point was that just because I point out that something was possible (like Brooks getting a bad draw at nationals and not AAing), doesn't mean that I would predict it. But, of course, out of that long post I made - that was what someone (HIWILLIE) on here jumped on.

But since AzChief took up my Zain-Sorenson bet (and I'll bet even he would concede that at this point his side does not seem to be where most of the betting money would go), I'm offering to bet that Brooks will not AA (even though I think he probably will). With the 1st HR poster interested not named HIWILLIE or Sloehawk. With the winning money going to GG. Still waiting on this.....how about you?

 

[1stplacehawk]

Actually, he would probably only get an at-Large if he finished 1 out of the AQ slot at B1Gs. You finish more than one slot out of qualifying and generally you are done. Forget the actual number of AQs I calculated the B1G would get at 184 (it's over there on my post), but my point was that if McCutcheon did not wrestle any more matches, he would not qualify a spot, AND if he came into the B1Gs with no mat time, he would be seeded probably around 7th, could drop a quarterfinal match and then would need to win two more matches to make the consy semis (which I think was where you needed to be if McCutch did not qualify another spot). So, there WAS a possible scenario for McCutcheon not to qualify. Which seems to be fading as he was reported to be wrestling live with Taylor yesterday. But still possible.

And my point was that just because I point out that something was possible (like Brooks getting a bad draw at nationals and not AAing), doesn't mean that I would predict it. But, of course, out of that long post I made - that was what someone (HIWILLIE) on here jumped on.

But since AzChief took up my Zain-Sorenson bet (and I'll bet even he would concede that at this point his side does not seem to be where most of the betting money would go), I'm offering to bet that Brooks will not AA (even though I think he probably will). With the 1st HR poster interested not named HIWILLIE or Sloehawk. With the winning money going to GG. Still waiting on this.....how about you?

I'll take you up on the Brooks bet. $100 if he does from you and $100 if he doesn't from me?

 

[texas twister]

With the wimpy schedule Iowa has been wrestling, you cannot determine a "trend up". The Big Ten surely did the fans a disservice.

 

[Sandor45]

With the wimpy schedule Iowa has been wrestling, you cannot determine a "trend up". The Big Ten surely did the fans a disservice.

Can't say for sure if Hawks are trending up, but the level of competition towards the end of the schedule is definitely down. Montana to close out the season?
BIGs schedules sucked. Where the guys even looking at the schools they were matching up together?
The National Duels this year does intrigue me. The new format sounds pretty kewl.

 

[dicemen99]

I'll take you up on the Brooks bet. $100 if he does from you and $100 if he doesn't from me?

Sounds great.

Thought I posted this yesterday, but must have got caught in the mid day Rivals crash.

 

[DonHawkeye]

Can't say for sure if Hawks are trending up, but the level of competition towards the end of the schedule is definitely down. Montana to close out the season?
BIGs schedules sucked. Where the guys even looking at the schools they were matching up together?
The National Duels this year does intrigue me. The new format sounds pretty kewl.

People are knocking Iowa's schedule but how much do you want to bet just like last year we end up with one of the higher RPIs across the board?

Are OSU or Mich much different than Minnesota, Illinois, Rutgers, Nebraska? Not in my book. Hell Purdue almost beat OSU.

It sucks we didn't wrestle PSU but OSU sends 50% of their starting lineup out to most duals so is not having them on our schedule that big a deal as far as making our schedule tough?

There is Iowa & Penn State. Then there is the rest of the Big Ten. Then there is Mich State, Maryland, Northwestern.

We will have another quality dual in the National Bowl Dual.

Maybe we will not be beat down come nationals like the last few years.

 

[edquinn06]

I'm not sure what's going on at Iowa but it is probably a factor of a lot of things.

1) Attitude-seems like all the guys in the room are on the same page on what needs to be done.

2) TNT seem to have toned it down a bit. This probably helps with the positive attitude and not over working ur guys to the point of burn out and injury.

3) Rutt! Being a fitness professional myself I think adding him was a great move. Guys seem stronger and more explosive, which is adding to more offensive wrestling. also a quality strength program will help in minimizing injuries.

4) weaker schedule. Iowa has been able to coast most of the year. Offense is probably up because the guys they have been wrestling are not top guys. What does worry me is that when we have meet a few of the top guys we haven't come out on top.
Example: Clark vs Richards, Brooks vs Zilmer and Dudley( yes I know he beat Zilmer the first time), Grothus vs Thorn, Meyer vs Krutchmer and Ohio guy, Burak vs Pfarr.
This could also be a reason injuries are down.

As a team a lot of things will have to go Iowa's way to beat PSU, can't deny that they are very good and they should be with all the blue chip recruits they have. So back to the question is Iowa trending up? Yes, but it really doesn't matter if they don't win a title because PSU is also clearly trending up.

What is clear is Iowa recruiting is treading up and it has to to keep up with PSU. Stoll, Turk, Kemerer, Bradley, Marinelli, Young, Troy, Happel, Renteria, Mejia, Wagner, Rathbun, etc are all very good recruits and they come with pipelines to the best high school programs and clubs in the nation. As an Iowa fan I like what I'm seeing here.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Ed i agree with everything you said up until your last paragraph. This is the problem. It doesnt matter how much you work on a buick, the corvette is still a better car from day one. You cant be lumping Rathbun and a Wagner in with Marinelli and Kemerer in list of very good recruits to show we are making any progress towards what Cael is recruiting. I would say we arent trending up recently, we are just now getting back to breaking even. Problem was somebody was a sleep at the wheel and thought we could call it a class with the Grothus, Berge, Klapprodt types for a few years. We get one elite stud in 2 of those classes. Thats our 20-40 point team title difference right now. Even when Cael supposedly didnt have much room or money he still racked in a top p4p.

Lets face the facts, After Scwab left nodody on the staff valued recruiting and though the practice room would make up the difference. Running a buick through a wall does not make it a corvette from day one.Both Brands and Zaddick are practice room guys so much it actaully became a negative to recruting. Nobody was on the road!

At PSU the main figure head is a road wariior and Cunningham, Varner and co can watch the room.

At Iowa its arse backwards. M* is on the road and our two wrestling legends hang back.

Ill be honest, its much better now than before but it wont get on PSU's level until Metcalf and Ramos join the staff and rack up the frequent flyer miles. Which is bad news for M* and Berhows future. I love McD but it cant be him. McD and Metcalf recruit the same personalities. Ramos is the best of the group. He is a better salesman, and more diverse than either. Regardless of how you view ay of the 3's careers. Mark my words, Ramos will be the king maker. Heck he already talked Gilman into coming to Iowa when Gilman backed off after Clark signed. We need Ramos, we dont need every guy on our staff a white hunter who only has camoflauge in their closet. We got those type of recruits covered already. We need somebody who listens to rap, is by far the best hawkeye of anyone on twitter and relates to minorities.

Should be interesting what happens after this olympic cycle for the guys that are going through their 2nd cycles like a Metcalf or a Varner. They cant be in the practice room with the team anymore after that 2nd cycle. Decision will have to be made or positions created for both Brands and Cael. Now Ramos and Taylor have another olympic cycle left so not nearly the emergency.

Sooner or later we have to fight fire with fire on the recruiting trail. The morningstars or say the eggums of the world can only get you so far. We have to match Varner and Taylor with Metcalf and Ramos at some point on each of these staffs.

We are always going to have to keep adapting or we will fall behd again. I can promise you that. We adapted much too late after Doug left and it still has lingering effects. we cant afford to do it again. Cael raised the margin of error bar way too high for that.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

I haven't seen anyone claim Brody would dominate 141, but logic would dictate he'd have a shot at the podium, and I see nothing to indicate he doesn't have that chance.

Of course, we'd all like to see him win it all. Brody is one of those guys who can get on a roll. If he got hot at Nationals, I'd still give him a puncher's chance to win the title. That's admittedly unlikely, however. Still, he beat #17 Sabatello something like 6-0 and lost by a whisker to #7 Thorn. I doubt anyone would argue that Thorn isn't AA material. I agree with others that he's still knocking off rust.

It's way too early to be giving up hope for Brody. I still think he has a good shot to AA.

I concur. He looked very good against both Sabatello and Thorn. Would have like to have seen him be a little more aggressive a little earlier against Thorn...think he could have won it. Based on those matches I'm with you...I think he's very capable this year. And as we have seen in past years, he can definitely get on a roll...

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

From a PSU fan's perspective, change from the beginning of the season until now in terms of nationals:

125 UP - at the beginning of the season, I thought Gilman was behind Nico and Nato (in relation to finishing at nationals, not necessarily H-T-H). Now, I think he is one of 3 that might win it and as good or better bet. Nato, him & possibly Nico (still not sure where Nico is as he has not really wrestled anyone since the early season match against Dance - where he looked better than Dance but ended up losing)

133 Down, but not a ton - Clark with potential, but still plagued by same issues. 133 seems stronger this year. At the beginning of year definitely would have picked him as a finalist - much more so than Gilman - and now it is just the opposite.

141 Sideways - jury still out on Grothus to me. I've always thought he was capable of wrestling tough, but just loses too many matches to be a high AA. I don't subscribe to the cut weight and get better theory. Will have to wait until B1Gs until you get a verdict with him.

149 Up, but tempered - think Sorenson is the best wrestler on the team and will be a finalist. Tempered only in that I had him top 3 to start and Zain has been so dominate I have a hard time seeing him winning it all. Could happen, but out of 10 matches, I think Zain wins most of them

157 Up - did not think anything of all of Cooper before the season, wasn't sure he would be the starter. Still don't think he scores a lot of points, but he looks like around a #15 guy or so. Could go 0-2, but could get 2 wins - probably depends on the matchups.

165 Sideways - thought maybe there would be some potential with Paddock here, but that was a complete guess. Rhoads looks like a tough kid, but not one that will score points

174 Down, slightly - at this point, I think AA is a crapshoot with him. Thought he would be a solid AA, maybe not as high as an Iowa fan would, but definitely in the 5-8 range. He could still do that or he could not AA.

184 Down - I thought he would be top 4 definitely. Again, he could do this, but he still looks like the same guy as before and could possibly not even AA in a deep weight class with the wrong draw

197 Up - Never was sold on Burak being a top 4 guy - thought it would depend on his draw. Now I think he is solidly - despite the loss to Pfarr. Hartmann is always a wild card here, so you never know how to stack him up, but I like Burak better than anyone not named McIntosh or Cox.

285 UP - Definitely see him as a solid AA threat, which is way more than I expected from him at the beginning of year. Not sure he is a National Champ type talent guy, but could definitely see him as a 3 to 4x AA - which I didn't expect.

Definitely UPs on the development of Gilman and Stoll. Burak and Sorenson also. Some of the other guys like Clark & Brooks seem stuck in mud - but maybe that's just what they are, which is still very good - look I still think Clark is a top 4 guy, just maybe not the NC I thought he might be. Jury out on Grothus, but my expectation is that we will see the same from him at this point - tease, but not a high AA. Some good development from guys like Cooper, Rhoads, but not enough talent to work with. Not sure what to think of Meyer, but maybe just too high expectations from a couple matches and a wide open weight class.

I think you're spot on with Brooks. Brooks can be a monster (e.g., Minnesota and most of his other matches), but at times he puts himself in a bad position. For instance, I didn't expect him to get a caught up in cradle against Dudley, especially with the announcer predicting the possibility minutes before it happened (Brooks should have been looking for it), and I didn't expect him to lose Zillmer in the Midlands after he just beat Zillmer the day before. And I know both Zillmer and Dudley are poss AAs this year, but I just don't think our potential top 4 should be losing to those guys, especially when we know he can beat them. He's simply inconsistent at times...and that's what scares me...

 

[Ihawkd9times]

I think you're spot on with Brooks. Brooks can be a monster (e.g., Minnesota and most of his other matches), but at times he puts himself in a bad position. For instance, I didn't expect him to get a caught up in cradle against Dudley, especially with the announcer predicting the possibility minutes before it happened (Brooks should have been looking for it), and I didn't expect him to lose Zillmer in the Midlands after he just beat Zillmer the day before. And I know both Zillmer and Dudley are poss AAs this year, but I just don't think our potential top 4 should be losing to those guys, especially when we know he can beat them. He's simply inconsistent at times...and that's what scares me...

Agree. Brooks is an odd duck for this fan base. I cant remember the last guy like him. Ive never seen a guy hang around the ranking area he does and he just screams he is an NCAA finalist and nothing anyone can do about it a titmes. Amazing he can lose a nail bitter to Dean but then not even AA. Its baffeling but he darn well could make the NCAA finals. Why do we think this?

I feel we are realistic about it too. I never saw anyone thinking Jeva was a finalist whne he was ranked 5th or even Stoll right now. But Sammy, its seems he has the toold in the toolbelt, I can see it.

Why is that?

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I couldn't agree more. This is the truth.

 

[hoythawk]

We have some stud recruits on their way, a pipeline started with Young guns and California, and a poster wants to bag on Mstar. Really?

 

[DonHawkeye]

Agree. Brooks is an odd duck for this fan base. I cant remember the last guy like him. Ive never seen a guy hang around the ranking area he does and he just screams he is an NCAA finalist and nothing anyone can do about it a titmes. Amazing he can lose a nail bitter to Dean but then not even AA. Its baffeling but he darn well could make the NCAA finals. Why do we think this?

I feel we are realistic about it too. I never saw anyone thinking Jeva was a finalist whne he was ranked 5th or even Stoll right now. But Sammy, its seems he has the toold in the toolbelt, I can see it.

Why is that?

Because he has pretty much beaten at one time or another everyone in this weight other than Dean. Well not exactly but kinda. And the guys he hasn't are not guys that are out of this world.

Brooks can wrestle. I have seen him crumble good guys. See McC and him in the dual when Brooks was healthy. I came away from that match thinking they were not even in the same league. Same thing when he wrestled Pfrarr. Pfrarr is good and Brooks seemed to manhandle him. In many of his losses guys had to stall their butts off to pull of the win (Dechow, Dean, Ab). Some of them came after hurting his hamstring (End of last year). And a few when he lost with 1 big move (Dudley & Boyd).

I have never really came away from any of his matches thinking he was out of anyone's league in the last year 1/2. And many of the top 10 guys I have thought are not in his league. But he has to prove it when it counts.

 

[edquinn06]

Ed i agree with everything you said up until your last paragraph. This is the problem. It doesnt matter how much you work on a buick, the corvette is still a better car from day one. You cant be lumping Rathbun and a Wagner in with Marinelli and Kemerer in list of very good recruits to show we are making any progress towards what Cael is recruiting. I would say we arent trending up recently, we are just now getting back to breaking even. Problem was somebody was a sleep at the wheel and thought we could call it a class with the Grothus, Berge, Klapprodt types for a few years. We get one elite stud in 2 of those classes. Thats our 20-40 point team title difference right now. Even when Cael supposedly didnt have much room or money he still racked in a top p4p.

Lets face the facts, After Scwab left nodody on the staff valued recruiting and though the practice room would make up the difference. Running a buick through a wall does not make it a corvette from day one.Both Brands and Zaddick are practice room guys so much it actaully became a negative to recruting. Nobody was on the road!

At PSU the main figure head is a road wariior and Cunningham, Varner and co can watch the room.

At Iowa its arse backwards. M* is on the road and our two wrestling legends hang back.

Ill be honest, its much better now than before but it wont get on PSU's level until Metcalf and Ramos join the staff and rack up the frequent flyer miles. Which is bad news for M* and Berhows future. I love McD but it cant be him. McD and Metcalf recruit the same personalities. Ramos is the best of the group. He is a better salesman, and more diverse than either. Regardless of how you view ay of the 3's careers. Mark my words, Ramos will be the king maker. Heck he already talked Gilman into coming to Iowa when Gilman backed off after Clark signed. We need Ramos, we dont need every guy on our staff a white hunter who only has camoflauge in their closet. We got those type of recruits covered already. We need somebody who listens to rap, is by far the best hawkeye of anyone on twitter and relates to minorities.

Should be interesting what happens after this olympic cycle for the guys that are going through their 2nd cycles like a Metcalf or a Varner. They cant be in the practice room with the team anymore after that 2nd cycle. Decision will have to be made or positions created for both Brands and Cael. Now Ramos and Taylor have another olympic cycle left so not nearly the emergency.

Sooner or later we have to fight fire with fire on the recruiting trail. The morningstars or say the eggums of the world can only get you so far. We have to match Varner and Taylor with Metcalf and Ramos at some point on each of these staffs.

We are always going to have to keep adapting or we will fall behd again. I can promise you that. We adapted much too late after Doug left and it still has lingering effects. we cant afford to do it again. Cael raised the margin of error bar way too high for that.

All good points, but I wouldn't be so quick to discard M* and Berhow. Our bigs have looked much better since he came along and that will attract others. M* has built a pipeline in Cali, Ohio, MN, PA, and Il in just the last three years. So things are in the right direction. You may not be high on Wagner, Rathbun, and Happel, but I feel it is important to land the top talent from ur state and that's what Iowa did in this last class which will help with future IA talent.

 

[depelland]

Ed i agree with everything you said up until your last paragraph. This is the problem. It doesnt matter how much you work on a buick, the corvette is still a better car from day one. You cant be lumping Rathbun and a Wagner in with Marinelli and Kemerer in list of very good recruits to show we are making any progress towards what Cael is recruiting. I would say we arent trending up recently, we are just now getting back to breaking even. Problem was somebody was a sleep at the wheel and thought we could call it a class with the Grothus, Berge, Klapprodt types for a few years. We get one elite stud in 2 of those classes. Thats our 20-40 point team title difference right now. Even when Cael supposedly didnt have much room or money he still racked in a top p4p.

Lets face the facts, After Scwab left nodody on the staff valued recruiting and though the practice room would make up the difference. Running a buick through a wall does not make it a corvette from day one.Both Brands and Zaddick are practice room guys so much it actaully became a negative to recruting. Nobody was on the road!

At PSU the main figure head is a road wariior and Cunningham, Varner and co can watch the room.

At Iowa its arse backwards. M* is on the road and our two wrestling legends hang back.

Ill be honest, its much better now than before but it wont get on PSU's level until Metcalf and Ramos join the staff and rack up the frequent flyer miles. Which is bad news for M* and Berhows future. I love McD but it cant be him. McD and Metcalf recruit the same personalities. Ramos is the best of the group. He is a better salesman, and more diverse than either. Regardless of how you view ay of the 3's careers. Mark my words, Ramos will be the king maker. Heck he already talked Gilman into coming to Iowa when Gilman backed off after Clark signed. We need Ramos, we dont need every guy on our staff a white hunter who only has camoflauge in their closet. We got those type of recruits covered already. We need somebody who listens to rap, is by far the best hawkeye of anyone on twitter and relates to minorities.

Should be interesting what happens after this olympic cycle for the guys that are going through their 2nd cycles like a Metcalf or a Varner. They cant be in the practice room with the team anymore after that 2nd cycle. Decision will have to be made or positions created for both Brands and Cael. Now Ramos and Taylor have another olympic cycle left so not nearly the emergency.

Sooner or later we have to fight fire with fire on the recruiting trail. The morningstars or say the eggums of the world can only get you so far. We have to match Varner and Taylor with Metcalf and Ramos at some point on each of these staffs.

We are always going to have to keep adapting or we will fall behd again. I can promise you that. We adapted much too late after Doug left and it still has lingering effects. we cant afford to do it again. Cael raised the margin of error bar way too high for that.

One of the most honest/accurate post I have seen in regard to the Iowa recruiting situation. Don't think many understood what a huge recruiting hit it was at the time when Doug left to take over the head coaching position at UNI.

 

[dhm47]

Ed i agree with everything you said up until your last paragraph. This is the problem. It doesnt matter how much you work on a buick, the corvette is still a better car from day one. You cant be lumping Rathbun and a Wagner in with Marinelli and Kemerer in list of very good recruits to show we are making any progress towards what Cael is recruiting. I would say we arent trending up recently, we are just now getting back to breaking even. Problem was somebody was a sleep at the wheel and thought we could call it a class with the Grothus, Berge, Klapprodt types for a few years. We get one elite stud in 2 of those classes. Thats our 20-40 point team title difference right now. Even when Cael supposedly didnt have much room or money he still racked in a top p4p.

Lets face the facts, After Scwab left nodody on the staff valued recruiting and though the practice room would make up the difference. Running a buick through a wall does not make it a corvette from day one.Both Brands and Zaddick are practice room guys so much it actaully became a negative to recruting. Nobody was on the road!

At PSU the main figure head is a road wariior and Cunningham, Varner and co can watch the room.

At Iowa its arse backwards. M* is on the road and our two wrestling legends hang back.

Ill be honest, its much better now than before but it wont get on PSU's level until Metcalf and Ramos join the staff and rack up the frequent flyer miles. Which is bad news for M* and Berhows future. I love McD but it cant be him. McD and Metcalf recruit the same personalities. Ramos is the best of the group. He is a better salesman, and more diverse than either. Regardless of how you view ay of the 3's careers. Mark my words, Ramos will be the king maker. Heck he already talked Gilman into coming to Iowa when Gilman backed off after Clark signed. We need Ramos, we dont need every guy on our staff a white hunter who only has camoflauge in their closet. We got those type of recruits covered already. We need somebody who listens to rap, is by far the best hawkeye of anyone on twitter and relates to minorities.

Should be interesting what happens after this olympic cycle for the guys that are going through their 2nd cycles like a Metcalf or a Varner. They cant be in the practice room with the team anymore after that 2nd cycle. Decision will have to be made or positions created for both Brands and Cael. Now Ramos and Taylor have another olympic cycle left so not nearly the emergency.

Sooner or later we have to fight fire with fire on the recruiting trail. The morningstars or say the eggums of the world can only get you so far. We have to match Varner and Taylor with Metcalf and Ramos at some point on each of these staffs.

We are always going to have to keep adapting or we will fall behd again. I can promise you that. We adapted much too late after Doug left and it still has lingering effects. we cant afford to do it again. Cael raised the margin of error bar way too high for that.

Finally someone else said it that you won't ignore. great post. I'll admit i've never liked M* as a coach and stated as much on this site. Good wrestler, good kid but he hasn't taken a shot since the 90's.

Ed i agree with everything you said up until your last paragraph. This is the problem. It doesnt matter how much you work on a buick, the corvette is still a better car from day one. You cant be lumping Rathbun and a Wagner in with Marinelli and Kemerer in list of very good recruits to show we are making any progress towards what Cael is recruiting. I would say we arent trending up recently, we are just now getting back to breaking even. Problem was somebody was a sleep at the wheel and thought we could call it a class with the Grothus, Berge, Klapprodt types for a few years. We get one elite stud in 2 of those classes. Thats our 20-40 point team title difference right now. Even when Cael supposedly didnt have much room or money he still racked in a top p4p.

Lets face the facts, After Scwab left nodody on the staff valued recruiting and though the practice room would make up the difference. Running a buick through a wall does not make it a corvette from day one.Both Brands and Zaddick are practice room guys so much it actaully became a negative to recruting. Nobody was on the road!

At PSU the main figure head is a road wariior and Cunningham, Varner and co can watch the room.

At Iowa its arse backwards. M* is on the road and our two wrestling legends hang back.

Ill be honest, its much better now than before but it wont get on PSU's level until Metcalf and Ramos join the staff and rack up the frequent flyer miles. Which is bad news for M* and Berhows future. I love McD but it cant be him. McD and Metcalf recruit the same personalities. Ramos is the best of the group. He is a better salesman, and more diverse than either. Regardless of how you view ay of the 3's careers. Mark my words, Ramos will be the king maker. Heck he already talked Gilman into coming to Iowa when Gilman backed off after Clark signed. We need Ramos, we dont need every guy on our staff a white hunter who only has camoflauge in their closet. We got those type of recruits covered already. We need somebody who listens to rap, is by far the best hawkeye of anyone on twitter and relates to minorities.

Should be interesting what happens after this olympic cycle for the guys that are going through their 2nd cycles like a Metcalf or a Varner. They cant be in the practice room with the team anymore after that 2nd cycle. Decision will have to be made or positions created for both Brands and Cael. Now Ramos and Taylor have another olympic cycle left so not nearly the emergency.

Sooner or later we have to fight fire with fire on the recruiting trail. The morningstars or say the eggums of the world can only get you so far. We have to match Varner and Taylor with Metcalf and Ramos at some point on each of these staffs.

We are always going to have to keep adapting or we will fall behd again. I can promise you that. We adapted much too late after Doug left and it still has lingering effects. we cant afford to do it again. Cael raised the margin of error bar way too high for that.