Issues to address

[Sandor45]

Bringing in an outside big name would help a lot. When we got Perry, we were noticeably better offensively (kemerer scored multiple takedowns on Hall, which I didn’t think was possible) I know Perry is a former hawk, but he unmistakable brought his own style of wrestling.
Names I like.
David Taylor
JB (won’t coach)
Russian world champ
Japanese world champ
Iranian world champ
Tervel
Dake

 

[grapplefann]

Bringing in an outside big name would help a lot. When we got Perry, we were noticeably better offensively (kemerer scored multiple takedowns on Hall, which I didn’t think was possible) I know Perry is a former hawk, but he unmistakable brought his own style of wrestling.
Names I like.
David Taylor
JB (won’t coach)
Russian world champ
Japanese world champ
Iranian world champ
Tervel
Dake

Abdulrashid Saduaev

 

[IRONBIRD]

Well, you were complaining that the refs aren't calling stalling and in a way, so am I. Only difference is that the guy pushing is the one that by rule is stalling. Why can't you understand that pushing someone out of bounds in folk is stalling AND is Boring as all heck to watch.

Do you even watch wrestling? Certainly you do not watch or understand FS! A) Our current rule regarding push outs SUCK!!!! B) an aggressive wrestler forcing another off the mat should NEVER be hit for stalling. C) I am sure when the rule was added, they added that BS part in; do to coaches who do not teach there wrestles to fight to stay in bounds

D) Watch the HAWKS and just about any other team wrestle. You will constantly see the IOWA guys moving forward. You will also see them fighting to stay inbounds or circle inbounds. E) Now watch FS. The Wrestlers MUST fight to stay on the mat, and they do for the most part. It would be the same in our style once the rule is added!

F) if a wrestler can't even stay on the mat with another, then they don't deserve to be there. G) I am in favor of much bigger mats(like the legendary IOWA one) and making it 3 push outs and match is over. Would make for much more constant action. May have to cut the time down to a straight 2-2-2 because there will be very few breaks in action. I believe I read somewhere that when IOWA wrestled I think Okie st. there were only 2 out of bounds in the entire dual meet!

 

[WxNWHawk]

thomas-brands@uiowa.edu

Hate to break it to you but Tom Brands doesn’t monitor his inbox. A staff member does that and passes on what they think is important.

An email bitching about Iowas wrestling style ain’t gonna make the cut.

 

[cometrock]

thomas-brands@uiowa.edu

 

[TarpHawk]

Hate to break it to you but Tom Brands doesn’t monitor his inbox. A staff member does that and passes on what they think is important.

An email bitching about Iowas wrestling style ain’t gonna make the cut.

Have to put "From Tarpley" in the subject line.

 

[Agoodnap]

Do you even watch wrestling? Certainly you do not watch or understand FS! A) Our current rule regarding push outs SUCK!!!! B) an aggressive wrestler forcing another off the mat should NEVER be hit for stalling. C) I am sure when the rule was added, they added that BS part in; do to coaches who do not teach there wrestles to fight to stay in bounds

D) Watch the HAWKS and just about any other team wrestle. You will constantly see the IOWA guys moving forward. You will also see them fighting to stay inbounds or circle inbounds. E) Now watch FS. The Wrestlers MUST fight to stay on the mat, and they do for the most part. It would be the same in our style once the rule is added!

F) if a wrestler can't even stay on the mat with another, then they don't deserve to be there. G) I am in favor of much bigger mats(like the legendary IOWA one) and making it 3 push outs and match is over. Would make for much more constant action. May have to cut the time down to a straight 2-2-2 because there will be very few breaks in action. I believe I read somewhere that when IOWA wrestled I think Okie st. there were only 2 out of bounds in the entire dual meet!

Stop, just stop. By FOLKSTYLE RULE:

Stalling by Pushing or Pulling — Offensive or Defensive Position.
Pushing or pulling the opponent out of bounds so as to force a restart�

Why don't you understand this? This isn't FreeStyle, it's FolkStyle and pushing/pulling someone out of bounds is STALLING! You only get the calls in Carver because 15K people intimidate the refs but you don't get those calls outside of Carver very often.

Perhaps a change of strategy is in order?

 

[GoHawks1996]

You're crazy if you think Marinelli, Cass, even Sam Stoll just push to push. Hell even Warner gets double unders and has multiple offensive attacks from thar position, but guys backwards sprint straight out. Marinelli needs forward pressure for his offense, I promise he'd much rather shoot because you tried staying in bounds than you back your ass straight out.

Sam Stoll and Cassiopi, in the rare instances that somebody put pressure back into them, absolutely launched people. Which is why nobody pushes back.

Anybody who says a push out rule would turn wrestling into sumo clearly hasn't watched freestyle. You'd be amazed at how easy it is for guys to stay inbounds when there's a rule preventing them from going out.

 

[vhsalum]

Hate to break it to you but Tom Brands doesn’t monitor his inbox. A staff member does that and passes on what they think is important.

An email bitching about Iowas wrestling style ain’t gonna make the cut.

LOL.

you're not breaking anything to me. A poster said "we" should email Tommy with Tarps demands. I just provided the email.

 

[hlstone]

Do you even watch wrestling? Certainly you do not watch or understand FS! A) Our current rule regarding push outs SUCK!!!! B) an aggressive wrestler forcing another off the mat should NEVER be hit for stalling. C) I am sure when the rule was added, they added that BS part in; do to coaches who do not teach there wrestles to fight to stay in bounds

D) Watch the HAWKS and just about any other team wrestle. You will constantly see the IOWA guys moving forward. You will also see them fighting to stay inbounds or circle inbounds. E) Now watch FS. The Wrestlers MUST fight to stay on the mat, and they do for the most part. It would be the same in our style once the rule is added!

F) if a wrestler can't even stay on the mat with another, then they don't deserve to be there. G) I am in favor of much bigger mats(like the legendary IOWA one) and making it 3 push outs and match is over. Would make for much more constant action. May have to cut the time down to a straight 2-2-2 because there will be very few breaks in action. I believe I read somewhere that when IOWA wrestled I think Okie st. there were only 2 out of bounds in the entire dual meet!

It reads to me as if you want the rules to adapt to Iowa’s style. Rather than Iowa’s style adapt to the rules.

 

[T8KUDWN]

It reads to me as if you want the rules to adapt to Iowa’s style. Rather than Iowa’s style adapt to the rules.

I'm pretty sure that's not what he is saying. Not even close...

 

[MSU158]

Stop, just stop. By FOLKSTYLE RULE:

Stalling by Pushing or Pulling — Offensive or Defensive Position.
Pushing or pulling the opponent out of bounds so as to force a restart�

Why don't you understand this? This isn't FreeStyle, it's FolkStyle and pushing/pulling someone out of bounds is STALLING! You only get the calls in Carver because 15K people intimidate the refs but you don't get those calls outside of Carver very often.

Perhaps a change of strategy is in order?

You are ignoring a KEY COMPONENT of that rule. "so as to force a restart." That is HUGE in this discussion. Iowa wrestlers aren't pushing out to force a restart. They are trying to force the opponent to push back and engage or at least make it obvious to the ref that isn't happening.

Intent is paramount here. The Iowa wrestlers that are usually the ones forcing their opponents out of bounds are the ones that have been scouted and their opponents simply don't engage and push back into the ties. This is especially true in Marinelli, Murin and DeSanto matches. It is obvious that many of these opponents have learned that most of the offense generated by the 3 listed, is predicated on close inside ties and pressure back into them.

Make no mistake, most of the guys pushing back are NOT wrestling at that point, especially when they go out of bounds. They could EASILY push back and/or circle to stay out of bounds, but that action opens up opportunities for these Hawkeyes to score.

You may not like it and obviously are not a Hawkeye fan. But, be a better fan of the sport and learn the nuances before complaining. When these Iowa wrestler are pushing in the ties it is literally the equivalent of JB taking a step or 2 back and level changing or Monday tapping the head a couple times, or Nick Lee snapping the head down hard or the Hidlays burying an underhook, etc. These are ALL setups for their offense and when most of their opponents go straight backwards to react to these they ARE they ones stalling. The same should be said for those backing up out of bounds...

 

[LIV4GOD]

Only difference is that the guy pushing is the one that by rule is stalling. Why can't you understand that pushing someone out of bounds in folk is stalling AND is Boring as all heck to watch.

It's only boring because the fleeing wrestler won't give forward pressure which initiates action. They flee because they don't want to wrestle at that moment.

We need the step out rule. And I like how in freestyle you have to hold your ground in the very center or it is you who will get put on the shot clock.

 

[HawK + i]

They could

I agree. An outside perspective is desperately needed, not saying it should come from fans, but TNT need to figure out what other teams are seeing in our training/strategy and develop counter to it.

 

[el dub]

It's only boring because the fleeing wrestler won't give forward pressure which initiates action. They flee because they don't want to wrestle at that moment.

We need the step out rule. And I like how in freestyle you have to hold your ground in the very center or it is you who will get put on the shot clock.

They flee because they don’t want to wrestle at that moment? Interesting. I was thinking they may be didn’t want to wrestle the same style as the guy moving forward.

Some wrestlers prefer not to tie up and trade blows to head. They would rather attack from space. They tend to capitalize on the forward pressure of the opponent.

 

[YoungGun07]

When did this become a rules discussion?

Iowa needs to control what they can control, and changing the rules isn't one of those things.

Whining about stalling is sour grapes. Be better.

 

[LIV4GOD]

They flee because they don’t want to wrestle at that moment? Interesting. I was thinking they may be didn’t want to wrestle the same style as the guy moving forward.

I think we're saying the same thing.

 

[sstark46]

Some people say "Bull was always more active against Cenzo, what happened?" and the answer to that is, well, Cenzo wasn't afraid to tie up and push back into Bull. Bull was able to attack more against him because neither guy would back away or stall in their matches. Bull's offense was predicated on this pressure

Imagine if every wrestler wrestled the way those two did - some of the most exciting matches of the past 6 years, even the one at B1Gs that ended 3-2.

 

[MSU158]

Some people say "Bull was always more active against Cenzo, what happened?" and the answer to that is, well, Cenzo wasn't afraid to tie up and push back into Bull. Bull was able to attack more against him because neither guy would back away or stall in their matches. Bull's offense was predicated on this pressure

Imagine if every wrestler wrestled the way those two did - some of the most exciting matches of the past 6 years, even the one at B1Gs that ended 3-2.

So true. Alex wrestled hard and was very offensive against forward pressure and active wrestling. His issue was simple. Without that pressure and active wrestling, he didn't have any other style to go to.

That is the ONE key issue I have with the current "Iowa Style". They NEED to find ways to create offense from space. Other than Kemerer, I really don't know that an Iowa starter can create good offense without a tie. The top coaches have caught on to this and have done a great job prepping their guys to stop it.

Now, only a few guys are actually good enough to pull it off, but those that can are the reason why some of Iowa's top wrestler look "boring". It isn't because they aren't wrestling their asses off. It is because what they do best has basically been taken away and they simply aren't diversified enough to adjust...

 

[Agoodnap]

You are ignoring a KEY COMPONENT of that rule. "so as to force a restart." That is HUGE in this discussion. Iowa wrestlers aren't pushing out to force a restart. They are trying to force the opponent to push back and engage or at least make it obvious to the ref that isn't happening.

Intent is paramount here. The Iowa wrestlers that are usually the ones forcing their opponents out of bounds are the ones that have been scouted and their opponents simply don't engage and push back into the ties. This is especially true in Marinelli, Murin and DeSanto matches. It is obvious that many of these opponents have learned that most of the offense generated by the 3 listed, is predicated on close inside ties and pressure back into them.

Make no mistake, most of the guys pushing back are NOT wrestling at that point, especially when they go out of bounds. They could EASILY push back and/or circle to stay out of bounds, but that action opens up opportunities for these Hawkeyes to score.

You may not like it and obviously are not a Hawkeye fan. But, be a better fan of the sport and learn the nuances before complaining. When these Iowa wrestler are pushing in the ties it is literally the equivalent of JB taking a step or 2 back and level changing or Monday tapping the head a couple times, or Nick Lee snapping the head down hard or the Hidlays burying an underhook, etc. These are ALL setups for their offense and when most of their opponents go straight backwards to react to these they ARE they ones stalling. The same should be said for those backing up out of bounds...

You're correct, Intent is paramount. The Iowa guys have no intention of taking an offensive shot. Their only intention is the push the opponent out of bounds and beg for a stall call while 15K are screaming STALLING...! Once out of bounds they go back to the center and try the exact same thing again often with the same result.

 

[Agoodnap]

It's only boring because the fleeing wrestler won't give forward pressure which initiates action. They flee because they don't want to wrestle at that moment.

We need the step out rule. And I like how in freestyle you have to hold your ground in the very center or it is you who will get put on the shot clock.

Again, this is Folkstyle, not Freestyle. In Folkstyle pushing your opponent out of bounds is, by rule, stalling.

It's clear you want to change the rules, but until the rules are changed you ought to try following them.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I agree with this, there's a difference than setting up an attack vs stalling.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Again, this is Folkstyle, not Freestyle. In Folkstyle pushing your opponent out of bounds is, by rule, stalling.

It's clear you want to change the rules, but until the rules are changed you ought to try following them.

Exactly

 

[LIV4GOD]

Again, this is Folkstyle, not Freestyle. In Folkstyle pushing your opponent out of bounds is, by rule, stalling.

It's clear you want to change the rules, but until the rules are changed you ought to try following them.

I think you've still failed to adequately read the rule. The intent has to be to push out to get a restart.

 

[Agoodnap]

I think you've still failed to adequately read the rule. The intent has to be to push out to get a restart.

Then only push to the edge. Once you follow them out you're after a restart. Again, the goal is to push to get a stall call and a restart in order to try again and again and again.

 

[MSU158]

You're correct, Intent is paramount. The Iowa guys have no intention of taking an offensive shot. Their only intention is the push the opponent out of bounds and beg for a stall call while 15K are screaming STALLING...! Once out of bounds they go back to the center and try the exact same thing again often with the same result.

Like I said, learn the sport or there is no point discussing this with you further. Marinelli was active as it can be against anyone and everyone that actually held their ground. Case in point, all the Joseph matches. Marinelli is actively looking for shots the ENTIRE time. It just isn't possible when guys like Amine are straight up fully extended, stiff arming the ties and not engaging.

The best part is you conveniently ignore the stance and lack of wrestling from their opponents during this process. At what point are they attempting any semblance of offense? Make no mistake, the reason they aren't is because they would get taken down if they engaged.

90+% of the time these opponents are AVOIDING wrestling positions because they favor the Iowa wrestlers. I don't care who you are, EVERY DI wrestler is capable of keeping from being pushed off the mat if they 100% tried to not let it happen. It is simply in their best interest against some of the Iowa wrestlers to go off the mat...

 

[LIV4GOD]

Then only push to the edge. Once you follow them out you're after a restart. Again, the goal is to push to get a stall call and a restart in order to try again and again and again.

Yeah, you don't get it. Have a good day.

 

[MSU158]

Then only push to the edge. Once you follow them out you're after a restart. Again, the goal is to push to get a stall call and a restart in order to try again and again and again.

So once the undeniably offensive minded wrestler gets the backing up wrestler to the edge of the mat, he should just stop wrestling to allow the opponent to get back to the center or attack you? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

You obviously have NO CLUE how offense works off tight, high pressure, inside ties. I mean you seem to have little to no understanding of the actual intricacies of wrestling whatsoever. I guarantee you, you would see TONS of offensive attacks from the Iowa guys if their opponents actually tried to stay on the mat once they get to the edge. Even if they circle hard instead of pressing back in, that actually would open up the angles to attack that all that forward pressure is looking for the entire time...

 

[Agoodnap]

So once the undeniably offensive minded wrestler gets the backing up wrestler to the edge of the mat, he should just stop wrestling to allow the opponent to get back to the center or attack you? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

You obviously have NO CLUE how offense works off tight, high pressure, inside ties. I mean you seem to have little to no understanding of the actual intricacies of wrestling whatsoever. I guarantee you, you would see TONS of offensive attacks from the Iowa guys if their opponents actually tried to stay on the mat once they get to the edge. Even if they circle hard instead of pressing back in, that actually would open up the angles to attack that all that forward pressure is looking for the entire time...

Thanks for the continuous insults. If you knew my wrestling history you would probably stop with that nonsense. I suggest Iowa keep doing exactly what they're doing.

 

[el dub]

Thanks for the continuous insults. If you knew my wrestling history you would probably stop with that nonsense. I suggest Iowa keep doing exactly what they're doing.

I’ll bet you do.

 

[meatloaf55]

Excuse my ignorance as I never wrestled when younger, just a fan. But my question is do wrestlers watch tape of their opponents similar to other major sports? I gotta believe every standard wrestler has a multiple attacks and then some that are of more difficult than others. Why not unleash those or attempt them when you've faced the same opponent a handful of times and always lost?

Most wrestlers certainly would for at least the top guys of the weight class. There is something to be said about wrestling your style match and imposing your will against opponent, but there is clearly value to preparing for a specific opponent

 

[GoHawks1996]

Thanks for the continuous insults. If you knew my wrestling history you would probably stop with that nonsense. I suggest Iowa keep doing exactly what they're doing.

I suggest you take a good nap and use it to think about how silly you sound here 🤣

 

[T8KUDWN]

Thanks for the continuous insults. If you knew my wrestling history you would probably stop with that nonsense. I suggest Iowa keep doing exactly what they're doing.

So.... you are saying you want to wrestle???
I'm your Huckleberry

 

[MSU158]

Thanks for the continuous insults. If you knew my wrestling history you would probably stop with that nonsense. I suggest Iowa keep doing exactly what they're doing.

Feel free to list them then. I would love to debate this topic with someone that supposedly has detailed knowledge on these types of positions and what each wrestler should do to counter the other's movement, or lack thereof.

Oh, and how exactly did I continuously insult you? Saying you seem to have a lack of general, basic knowledge of wrestling is NOT a personal insult. I didn't call you names or denigrate you as a person. I simply believe you have no true knowledge of the inner workings of wrestling positioning and the chain of events necessary to complete moves.

Again, feel free to prove me wrong by listing those credentials and then be considerably more specific as to what the forward pressuring guy should do when the opponent won't engage in ties. And, please, don't just say stop tie-ing up...

 

[BBptg5]

I know reading is hard, but…. It might be worse than you thought. Lol

You're correct, Intent is paramount. The Iowa guys have no intention of taking an offensive shot. Their only intention is the push the opponent out of bounds and beg for a stall call while 15K are screaming STALLING...! Once out of bounds they go back to the center and try the exact same thing again often with the same result.

And what is the other wrestler doing? Is he engaging or is he blocking off and backing up? If you do not want to be…your implication…pushed off the mat, circle and push back. Good to know though that you know exactly what Iowa wrestlers are thinking.

 

[grapplefann]

Have to put "From Tarpley" in the subject line.

Well, that used to work before the last 10 days. I think that last rant discourse may have put you on the ignore list. So sorry Tarp,

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

I have actually posted it on here more than once. Trust me, especially after Ohio State taking 13th and OkState 14th, it isn’t even close.

The funny thing is, if you don’t count last year against Cornell, because they couldn’t control the Ivies shutting down, they are the ONLY other team to finish in the top 10 every year during that timeframe.

I trust you my friend. I'll accept that I'm wrong on this front.

 

[PSUNAV]

You are ignoring a KEY COMPONENT of that rule. "so as to force a restart." That is HUGE in this discussion. Iowa wrestlers aren't pushing out to force a restart. They are trying to force the opponent to push back and engage or at least make it obvious to the ref that isn't happening.

Intent is paramount here. The Iowa wrestlers that are usually the ones forcing their opponents out of bounds are the ones that have been scouted and their opponents simply don't engage and push back into the ties. This is especially true in Marinelli, Murin and DeSanto matches. It is obvious that many of these opponents have learned that most of the offense generated by the 3 listed, is predicated on close inside ties and pressure back into them.

Make no mistake, most of the guys pushing back are NOT wrestling at that point, especially when they go out of bounds. They could EASILY push back and/or circle to stay out of bounds, but that action opens up opportunities for these Hawkeyes to score.

You may not like it and obviously are not a Hawkeye fan. But, be a better fan of the sport and learn the nuances before complaining. When these Iowa wrestler are pushing in the ties it is literally the equivalent of JB taking a step or 2 back and level changing or Monday tapping the head a couple times, or Nick Lee snapping the head down hard or the Hidlays burying an underhook, etc. These are ALL setups for their offense and when most of their opponents go straight backwards to react to these they ARE they ones stalling. The same should be said for those backing up out of bounds...

If opponents know Iowa wrestlers need their opponents to push into them - why would any smart wrestler push into them?

Maybe Iowa wrestlers should learn to attack from space so they could be more diverse in how they can score points.

Not trying to be a smart ass but would that not be a smart tactic. Why would opponents purposely wrestle the style that Iowa prefers. Who does that in any sport?

 

[BBptg5]

If opponents know Iowa wrestlers need their opponents to push into them - why would any smart wrestler push into them?

Maybe Iowa wrestlers should learn to attack from space so they could be more diverse in how they can score points.

Not trying to be a smart ass but would that not be a smart tactic. Why would opponents purposely wrestle the style that Iowa prefers. Who does that in any sport?

ok,,,,,then why would it be stalling on the wrestler who was engaging while the other one was avoiding it?

 

[GoHawks1996]

If opponents know Iowa wrestlers need their opponents to push into them - why would any smart wrestler push into them?

Maybe Iowa wrestlers should learn to attack from space so they could be more diverse in how they can score points.

Not trying to be a smart ass but would that not be a smart tactic. Why would opponents purposely wrestle the style that Iowa prefers. Who does that in any sport?

Definitely don't blame them for not engaging, which is why we all want the rules changed to force wrestlers to engage.

Most people aren't athletic enough to shoot from space. You have to be super quick, compared to the guys you're wrestling who are also very quick. Not something you can just learn.