JRob

[cidhawkeye]

So much to comment on. Jam, let's ban cars while we are at it, they kill way more people than alcohol, feel free to share what your efforts are in the prohibition effort. I am sure you have led many campaigns and have chosen to never consume alcohol.

This last release doesn't reflect well. I did get a chuckle out of the 'not dealing drugs just sharing the cost' comment.

 

[pablow]

Felony drug trafficking laws generally criminalize "distribution." Distribution includes so-called "sharing." J's attorney is not helping him much.

 

[Multi-Hawk]

I have read the latest release and I see a coach who is passionately trying to protect his athletes, maybe to a fault. The university will want to distance themselves from this black eye so he will likely lose his job, but I doubt he faces criminal charges.

That's how I see it as well. JRob wasn't trying to cover this up to protect his legacy, he was trying to protect his wrestlers. He will and should lose his job.

 

[Azchief32]

Yes...tried to minimize it, boys being boys, but he let a few things slip that make you scratch your head a little bit more

 

[Azchief32]

I have read the latest release and I see a coach who is passionately trying to protect his athletes, maybe to a fault. The university will want to distance themselves from this black eye so he will likely lose his job, but I doubt he faces criminal charges.

Sounds about right. Problem is, are they worth the trouble? One thing to protect a kid with a habit. Get him in, get some help. But to protect a bunch of peckerwoods intent on putting cash in their pockets or who are using during the season? Sorry, not worth it.

One has to ask, was it done out of caring or arrogance? You and I see it all the time in the Big Blue. A commander doesn't have the pulse of his/her organization and loses track of how their senior leadership are conducting themselves. In my unit, the Wing CC and the OG were fired for a multitude of reasons. Guys were marrying enlisted, a couple of officers felt marginalized and took it to the IG, and the guy above the Wing CC did not like fighter pilots. Plus, the press did an expose on our unit here in AZ.

The guy above the Wing CC was lobbying to get the Wing CC to fire all of the pilots that had married enlisted...some of whom had been married for years. Our guy was like screw you and tried to protect his guys...fraternization had been a problem in our unit for awhile. The buck just happened to land on this guy. Col, I'm sure you can think of like examples.

The burden of leadership...

 

[ping72]

If you watched them wrestle this season, it shouldn't be too surprising to learn the whole team was on sedatives.

 

[YoungGun07]

I wonder when transfers will start to happen, and I wonder if Iowa will benefit from any of the transfers?

 

[SPOONER]

It's like if someone buys a 12-pack to split with you and you pay them back half of the value of the 12-pack, they're not "selling" you the beer because that would be illegal without a license. You're splitting the cost. Similar thing could be happening here.

Yeah. Same situation.

 

[FineMaterial]

If you watched them wrestle this season, it shouldn't be too surprising to learn the whole team was on sedatives.

"Thank you thank you, I'll be here all week."

 

[grappler6]

In reference to the tournament being the scuffle, it could have also been one of several open tournaments as it doesn't state it was a starter.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

At the end of the day, J-Rob is trying to prevent his athletes and young adults from becoming life long felons. He jeopardized his own career and livelihood by not cooperating with the police. If he had fully ousted them as many of you seem to believe he should have done, they would be felons, and would most likely be serving time behind bars.

As J-Rob said in the article, "We need to help them — not hang a felony around their necks." There is no reason that the consumption of any substance (an act that only harms yourself) should result in a felony or being locked in a jail cell. If you commit crimes while under the influence of a drug, then you should fully be charged for the that crime. But the consumption of a drug itself, should not be a felony, and should not result in being locked in a cell. History will look back upon this current policy and law in the U.S. very unfavorably.

Do we lock alcoholics in a jail cell? No, we have an intervention and get them into treatment.

Another quote from the article: "Robinson then said he would provide extensive information to police in exchange for “immunity” for his athletes."

Put the fact that MN is a rival beside and recognize that Robinson committed no evil atrocity as many of you make it sound. What kind of leader immediately throws his mentees under the bus by going straight to the police when the result would be felonies and jail time? This is not a violent crime. Their only danger to society is that they are endangering themselves and their futures.

Years of media/government propaganda and conditioning have lead people to focus on if an act is illegal rather than what the actual effects and outcome of the act are. It is illogical to incarcerate an individual for the consumption of a substance that has been deemed by the government of the "land of the free" to be illegal. Be critical of our current legal system and process prior to condemnation and pitch forks.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Vodka, no one is suggesting that users be put in jail or that what JRob did to them (essays) was inappropriate. The real discussion centers around the sellers, if indeed there were any. That's a real crime, and if it occurred, the wrestlers should have been kicked off the team and exposed to a police investigation. Sellers profiting off the misery of others is revolting.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Vodka, no one is suggesting that users be put in jail or that what JRob did to them (essays) was inappropriate. The real discussion centers around the sellers, if indeed there were any. That's a real crime, and if it occurred, the wrestlers should have been kicked off the team and exposed to a police investigation. Sellers profiting off the misery of others is revolting.

Again, at the end of the day, it's the user's responsibility to make the choice about what they consume. No one looks at a liquor store salesman as a criminal or a bad person, yet they provide an outlet and a means for alcoholics.

If the kids were selling, there is a very, very high probability that they would face jail time and be felons. These are antiquated laws that our society needs to move away from. I'm not saying that selling should be legal by any means. However, it should result in a fine, probation, punishments along those lines. Locking people behind bars over non-violent crimes rarely makes sense. J-Rob appears to recognize that the lawful punishment doesn't match the crime which is why he didn't cooperate with the police.

 

[moosemonster]

Vodka, please respectfully shut up. There is zero chance that any wrestlers would be convicted of felonies and do hard time for selling a few pills. The investigators went after their providers as they should. Now stop.

 

[grapplefann]

Unclutch your pearls, Wilma. No one in this thread is "enjoying his pain". And unless someone else wrote that first post of yours that I responded to, you most certainly did ask people to write letters of support for him.

In support does not equal exonerate. He deserves due process, and I thought that is what his daughter was asking for. If that was misconstrued into writing to let him off, that's not what I intended.

 

[ferentzin04]

Again, at the end of the day, it's the user's responsibility to make the choice about what they consume. No one looks at a liquor store salesman as a criminal or a bad person, yet they provide an outlet and a means for alcoholics.

So that guy selling meth out of his trailer on the East side of Waterloo isn't a bad person? Cool. I mean, it's not his fault some people make the choice to take meth. He just happens to deliver it from one person to another.

 

[Azchief32]

Vodka...we get it, you are a Libertarian. I share some of your leanings but you are dismissing an issue that can blow up in someone's face real quick. Our current laws dictate that selling prescription drugs to somebody without doctor's approval is illegal. Sooo many side effects. The seller isn't authorized either. It would be like me stealing your car and selling it to somebody else at half the price...if the buyer is aware, both parties are guilty but especially me in this case.

You are arguing scenarios without knowing the full story. It could be just selling a few pills...it could be much larger than that. Either way, the users are not making an informed decision according . For example, did you know that Xanax mixed with grapefruit juice is bad juju? I am all for individual responsibility but the court system will not see it that way if a parent sues the pants off the University bexause their kid died. Don't like the laws? Work to change them but we still somewhat live in a country that goes by the rule of law.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Vodka, please respectfully shut up. There is zero chance that any wrestlers would be convicted of felonies and do hard time for selling a few pills. The investigators went after their providers as they should. Now stop.

Zero chance? There is precedence of people receiving felonies/jail time for similar and less severe cases.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/03/21/CU-students-charged-for-study-aid-pill/98021363920428/

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

So that guy selling meth out of his trailer on the East side of Waterloo isn't a bad person? Cool. I mean, it's not his fault some people make the choice to take meth. He just happens to deliver it from one person to another.

View embedded media

Again, he should be penalized - via fines, probation, and mandatory treatment, but not jail time. Do we penalize the liquor store salesman for selling alcohol to an alcoholic? Again, the responsibility with drug consumption always falls on the user.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Don't like the laws? Work to change them but we still somewhat live in a country that goes by the rule of law.

That's exactly what I'm doing by voicing my perceived faults with the current law. I agree that selling prescription drugs without a license should be illegal. I disagree on the criminal penalty that is currently in place. J-Rob also appears to disagree. He mentions in the article that we should be seeking help for the kids, and not making them life long felons.

 

[wasdt21]

did any of these guys go to rehab, you keep talking about getting them help

 

[championhawk]

In the end I want to know if JROB knew about this for 6 weeks before doing anything about it. Letting the season play out while they were selling/using drugs is a major problem that kills any argument that JROB was trying to protect his athletes.

 

[MitchL]

I wonder when transfers will start to happen, and I wonder if Iowa will benefit from any of the transfers?

I can't think of any current kids on the Gopher roster that would make it at Iowa. They have maybe two or three kids that are decent. Thorn and Pharr aren't leaving. McKee looks pretty good, but that's not an Iowa need weight. The rest... no thanks! Redshirts included.

 

[hawkster03]

I understand what JRob was doing. These young men are like sons to these coaches.

What if it was your son/daughter? Which option would you choose?

Option 1: The coach turns them in. No more selling pills. They get kicked off the team, kicked out of school, felony conviction on their record, jail time.

Option 2: The coach handles it internally. No more selling pills. Gives them some type of a life lesson. Punishes them with something (community service, anti-drug work, something). Graduate college. Get a nice job. Most likely never run into a problem like this again.

Which option do you choose for your child?

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I understand what JRob was doing. These young men are like sons to these coaches.

What if it was your son/daughter? Which option would you choose?

Option 1: The coach turns them in. No more selling pills. They get kicked off the team, kicked out of school, felony conviction on their record, jail time.

Option 2: The coach handles it internally. No more selling pills. Gives them some type of a life lesson. Punishes them with something (community service, anti-drug work, something). Graduate college. Get a nice job. Most likely never run into a problem like this again.

Which option do you choose for your child?

I agree. With that said, the University should still ask J-Rob to retire as his time has past and their program has declined rapidly. He should still get his full retirement. Thank him for his time as a coach and move on.

 

[tikk10]

Vodka...we get it, you are a Libertarian. I share some of your leanings but you are dismissing an issue that can blow up in someone's face real quick. Our current laws dictate that selling prescription drugs to somebody without doctor's approval is illegal. Sooo many side effects. The seller isn't authorized either. It would be like me stealing your car and selling it to somebody else at half the price...if the buyer is aware, both parties are guilty but especially me in this case.

You are arguing scenarios without knowing the full story. It could be just selling a few pills...it could be much larger than that. Either way, the users are not making an informed decision according . For example, did you know that Xanax mixed with grapefruit juice is bad juju? I am all for individual responsibility but the court system will not see it that way if a parent sues the pants off the University bexause their kid died. Don't like the laws? Work to change them but we still somewhat live in a country that goes by the rule of law.

I'm also sympathetic (as both a lawyer and actual human) to views that at least acknowledge the over-criminalization of drugs, as opposed to treatment and more progressive approaches. JRob's instincts were correct inasmuch as hanging felonies on college kids will ruin their lives far beyond their understanding of the risk involved (regardless of whether they should have known the risks). (Also worth noting that prosecutors aren't anxious to charge college kids and judges aren't anxious to convict.)

That said, he appears to have greatly overestimated his ability/capacity to address the issue on his own, even assuming the most favorable-to-JRob interpretation of the disputed timeline. And he probably (I'm hedging to account for disputed facts) underestimated the scope of the problem, evident by his attorney's casual dismissal of "ticky-tack violations" which were actually (assuming the allegations as true) felonies carrying prison time. I think it's possible (giving him all the benefit of the doubt within me) that JRob simply and naively saw it as a use issue when the bigger legal problem (for him, the university, the students) was a selling issue. His attorney's proffering to the media of evidence supporting steps taken in line with the Safe Harbor provision is kind of a red herring if the allegations/numbers are accurate, b/c Safe Harbor only addresses use. And his attorney's attempted mitigation of drug selling as drug cost-sharing (heh!) more or less acknowledges the underlying allegations. For the university, it's always been about selling because that's where their liability lies, and JRob's defense is chiefly concerned with use.

 

[sstark46]

Except that splitting the cost of a 12 pack isn't illegal. Splitting the cost of a prescription drug is illegal. Not that I believe cost sharing was involved here. That's just lawyer-speak.

Of course it's still illegal, but it changes the scenario from: one person selling drugs to everyone else to: everyone involved was buying drugs, the money given over was just to split the cost.

Whether that is what actually happened or not, if that's how they are fighting it, it could change the charges and the severity of the situation.

 

[pumpdog20]

Being a former Army NCO (I believe J's military background had played a role), I truly believe he had his wrestler's best interest in his heart by not working with the police on what he viewed a "ticky tack" incident. Right or wrong legally, I respect that. I think it's also clear that he had the wrestling season as a priority as well, as he waited til after the season to conduct the piss test. He clearly had suspicion, otherwise he wouldn't have done it. I think it's very plausible that a starter(s) was involved, otherwise the piss test would have came earlier.

The best course for J would be to resign in exchange for immunity for the wrestlers.

 

[PutaRideOn]

Of course it's still illegal, but it changes the scenario from: one person selling drugs to everyone else to: everyone involved was buying drugs, the money given over was just to split the cost.

Whether that is what actually happened or not, if that's how they are fighting it, it could change the charges and the severity of the situation.

I don't know about your job but if I left to go on vacation for 2 weeks and dropped this in my bosses lap when I got back I would expect to be shown the door. If it's serious enough to tell your boss then you damn well better tell him/her before you leave for a 2 week vacation.

 

[sstark46]

I was talking about from the wrestlers' side of things, not J's

 

[cidhawkeye]

Zero chance? There is precedence of people receiving felonies/jail time for similar and less severe cases.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/03/21/CU-students-charged-for-study-aid-pill/98021363920428/

Good job going back to 2013 to find out what the person was charged with. Did you miss the following headline?

Felony dropped as CU-Boulder student charged with sale of $5 pill takes plea deal
Under the deferred sentence, Busbey will have the petty offense dismissed if he stays out of legal trouble for six months. He also was sentenced to 16 hours of community service.

"There is precedence of people receiving felonies/jail time for similar and less severe cases"

Are you able to dig a little deeper to support your case? Or at least familiarize your self with how the process works?

Your alcohol analogies are getting a little tiresome and aren't really applicable but feel free to keep throwing them out there. It diminishes your credibility a great deal.

 

[jammenz]

I can't think of any current kids on the Gopher roster that would make it at Iowa. They have maybe two or three kids that are decent. Thorn and Pharr aren't leaving. McKee looks pretty good, but that's not an Iowa need weight. The rest... no thanks! Redshirts included.

Does that mean that Iowa is going to stop poaching Minnesota wrestlers and coaches?

 

[dunkej01]

I don't know about your job but if I left to go on vacation for 2 weeks and dropped this in my bosses lap when I got back I would expect to be shown the door. If it's serious enough to tell your boss then you damn well better tell him/her before you leave for a 2 week vacation.

and what vacation can you be on where you cant connect on some level with your boss/family if your needed to? its 2016 not 1620. Why isnt Eggum heading this up in Js absence. Surely Eggum as the heir apparent could handle something so diminutive as a few guys getting hopped on goof balls.

then consider your the figure head for a major sports program. Who in this day and age can just unplug themselves from a multi-million dollar operation like that. too many moving pieces that you must be able to connect if "it" hits the fan.

J through this whole thing (to be fair.... according to media reports) appears to have just completely downplayed what was going on. The keepers of the flame video did his teaching/coaching no favors in my opinion and this further says to me that J was not all that connected to the team anymore and maybe even the realities of the present day.

No winners in any of this, only losers.

 

[MitchL]

Does that mean that Iowa is going to stop poaching Minnesota wrestlers and coaches?

I think it's more of an "I want out of Minnesota" scenario. The only bigger dumpster fire than Gopher wrestling might be Gopher MBB. Truly becoming an even bigger disgrace to the B1G. And most Iowa fans thought Rutgers was a crap hole.

 

[MitchL]

and what vacation can you be on where you cant connect on some level with your boss/family if your needed to? its 2016 not 1620. Why isnt Eggum heading this up in Js absence. Surely Eggum as the heir apparent could handle something so diminutive as a few guys getting hopped on goof balls.

then consider your the figure head for a major sports program. Who in this day and age can just unplug themselves from a multi-million dollar operation like that. too many moving pieces that you must be able to connect if "it" hits the fan.

J through this whole thing (to be fair.... according to media reports) appears to have just completely downplayed what was going on. The keepers of the flame video did his teaching/coaching no favors in my opinion and this further says to me that J was not all that connected to the team anymore and maybe even the realities of the present day.

No winners in any of this, only losers.

Regarding Eggum... outside of a few Gopher homers, I don't think too many wrestling fans are/were impressed with him as a leader. Appears low energy. Think of him as the "Jeb Bush" of wrestling. In specifics, there was a match a few years ago where Dardanes was wrestling and beating Streebler of tOSU and the assts somehow managed to lose track of the match score and eventually Dardanes either gave up an escape or takedown after being told to do so by the coaches. I might have the exact scenario wrong, but I remember Gopher fans ripping on the staff for that match.

The Gopher staff is entirely made up of Gopher alumni, I believe. I can't think of another staff in the country that makes that claim. That "in house" concept won't exactly bring in new concepts.

Bottom line... Gopher wrestling was going downhill before the drug scandal. This merely accelerates the speed of the decline.

 

[grapplefann]

Does that mean that Iowa is going to stop poaching Minnesota wrestlers and coaches?

I certainly hope not.

 

[Pennstate1985]

This is jumping ahead here, but I wonder if the B1G relaxes the transfer rules for kids not yet on campus.

 

[CowboyUp61]

The Gopher staff is entirely made up of Gopher alumni, I believe. I can't think of another staff in the country that makes that claim. That "in house" concept won't exactly bring in new concepts.
[/QUOTE]
OSU staff (Smith, Guerrero, Espo, and Perry)
Iowa staff (Brands, Brands, Morningstar (and the one guy from Minny)

Those two are pretty close...

 

[cidhawkeye]

The Gopher staff is entirely made up of Gopher alumni, I believe. I can't think of another staff in the country that makes that claim. That "in house" concept won't exactly bring in new concepts.

OSU staff (Smith, Guerrero, Espo, and Perry)
Iowa staff (Brands, Brands, Morningstar (and the one guy from Minny)

Those two are pretty close...[/QUOTE]

25%? Close

 

[CowboyUp61]

OSU staff (Smith, Guerrero, Espo, and Perry)
Iowa staff (Brands, Brands, Morningstar (and the one guy from Minny)

Those two are pretty close...

25%? Close[/QUOTE]
Being an outsider, I don't know what Mr. Berhow brings to the table. Of course, he is the only bigger guy on staff. But since he isn't talked about much on here as a reason for success or anything, just figured he was more of an admin type.

And being a baseball dad this summer, yeah, 3 of 4 is close