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Okie st. grades

IRONBIRD

IRONBIRD

HR MVP
Dec 2, 2010
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First off, I felt we wrestled about as good or better then at any other time so far this year. Lets hope we continue that into B1Gs and NCAAs!

2nd, I will start at 125, do not care where in hell okie made us start at.

125-LEE- A+ guy tried to go B1G, guess it is as good a shot as any? He got to go to the showers early!

133 TESKE- 83- He Wrestled as tuff as I have seen him all year and was in the match into the third against #2. Got a little out of position as he was trying to push the action and got caught. Maybe could have worked deeper into 3rd, but overall, if he wrestles like that. He will have a shot to AA

141 WOODS- A Handled a mid-ranked kid very easily and got a major. Would have liked to see a little more in the 3rd but he is looking like a CHAMPION!

149 MURIN B Got maybe a little sloppy/over aggressive and taken down early. Came back strong shutting kid down the rest of match.

157 COBE- C+ Wrestled an AA type kid intoTB2, did not show much of his own offense!

165 KENNEDY B Once again you see just how insanely tuff this weight class is!!! Gave up a TD, also was in real deep on another double and maybe let off the gas a little? Got back to double when he needed it and also showed some of his own D/counter at end to secure the W

174 BRANDS A Beat the kind of kid he will need TWOOO to AA. His hand fighting is nails! Would like to see more offense, but I am thinking we are seeing a plan of how they want him to wrestle.

184 ASSAD A+ WELCOME BACK!!! Was great seeing him back out there. To take out a higher ranked kid 1st match back, all the more better!

197 WARNER B Got a win in a bit of an ugly way. Rode the piss outa the kid in 2nd, got a clasp call, and an escape after giving up early TD. Very happy he got the win, he certainly deserves to go out a winner in his last home match!

Heavy BIG CASS B Nothing special, got an easy victory. Maybe took a page from the F*** st guys, riding near ankle. Looked like he was working on that pretty hard. Might be something he can use down the road.

Looked like an AWESOME CROWD, Liked see BULL talking with Nelson. No real complaints about REFs which is always good, HAWKS moving in the right direction!!!
 
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Hawkeyes4Life32 said:
Siebrecht seemed off. Shoulder brace isn’t a pleasant sight but also just seemed lethargic
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What Clark, and to a lesser extent, Kem did with their injured shoulder is the exception not the rule. National Champion wrestlers (McD and Lewis) had shoulder injuries that left them either off the podium or out of the tournament.

If Cobe has a labrum injury he went from a fringe AA to a guy who will struggle to score points. I cringed when I saw him wearing that brace.
 
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I thought it was a very exciting dual. No grades but some good observations. I don’t like the recipe JWar is working with. He essentially tries a couple TD attempts in the first, nothing overly committed. When he’s on top he tries to ride out the period, not too committed to turn and then tries to eek out close decisions in the third. I hope this isn’t the formula going forward and we see typical March JWar next month.

Murin, Kennedy, Assad and Brands all battled tough against ranked opponents and got hard fought wins. Those all had blood round feels to them.

Lee and Woods are both wrestling like champs and are very entertaining to watch.

Big Cass may have been working on some things or may have been playing a bit conservative as to not get injured, and did enough to get a pretty comfortable win.

Brody reminded me a bit of Murin a couple years ago vs Sammy Sasso. Hung tough the entire match, pushed the better wrestler to the brink, then made a mistake, and got put on his back. Love the fight, effort and hustle.

Cobe hung with an experienced vet and took him to RT. Gfeller wrestled very smart and eeked out the win. Need to learn how to win those kind of matches in March. Hope Cobe isn’t nursing a serious injury.

Hawks looking good overall heading into the post season.
 
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Does anyone think Fix is making the finals again? I don’t think he looks the same, post vitamin shake. He’s not on RBY’s level anymore, at least in folk style. I can see someone like Vito A knocking him off in the semis this year.
 
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BFosr1 said:
Does anyone think Fix is making the finals again? I don’t think he looks the same, post vitamin shake. He’s not on RBY’s level anymore, at least in folk style. I can see someone like Vito A knocking him off in the semis this year.
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I still think it’s RBY and Fix in the finals. Kid is a winner and finds ways to get his hand raised, just hasn’t been able to do it in the finals against a couple 2xers. He seemed a bit off today and someone else’s figure 4 leg ride gave him trouble. DiSario Jackson perhaps? That was surprising.
 
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Not grades, but that meet was very "Nebraska level domination" with our full lineup finally on display. They made me feel a lot better about March after those performances yesterday.

125- Fitting end to an amazing career at Carver. I expected no less from Lee and once again he delivered.

133- Worst loss of the year for Brody, but the best he has looked all year. I have no problem with him losing the way he did. Go for the win, not the 4-3 loss. Brody can absolutely AA this year.

141- I have said it for 6 weeks now and Real looks even better now than 6 weeks ago. He is a champ this year.

149- While Max eaks out close wins, he seems more confident and in control this year in those wins.

157- He is right there. If he is ok he has a shot at the podium. If he has a major shoulder issue, he doesn't. Cobe has been a great surprise this year and is right there with everyone at this weight. Not many gave him a chance in November.

165- Keeps climbing up the ladder. Seeding will be very important at NCAA's for this weight. There are a couple guys you don't want to see in the quarters.

174/184- Great wins for both guys against higher ranked guys. Seeding will be important here as well. Both showed they can AA this year and I wasn't so sure a month ago.

197- Warner has me concerned this year. Hopefully he can push through whatever is going on in March. A 4 time AA is a great career regardless of how much crap Warner gets.

285- Very workman like while in control the whole time.

Two weeks of healing for everyone and an injury free top 2 team performance at B10s is all that matters now. Great showing last night from top to bottom. We won all but one toss up match ( and we were the underdog in that one really). I'll take it. John looked like he was pretty disgusted most of that dual imo.
 
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dtripp26 said:
What Clark, and to a lesser extent, Kem did with their injured shoulder is the exception not the rule. National Champion wrestlers (McD and Lewis) had shoulder injuries that left them either off the podium or out of the tournament.

If Cobe has a labrum injury he went from a fringe AA to a guy who will struggle to score points. I cringed when I saw him wearing that brace.
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IRONBIRD said:
First off, I felt we wrestled about as good or better then at any other time so far this year. Lets hope we continue that into B1Gs and NCAAs!

2nd, I will start at 125, do not care where in hell okie made us start at.

125-LEE- A+ guy tried to go B1G, guess it is as good a shot as any? He got to go to the showers early!

133 TESKE- 83- He Wrestled as tuff as I have seen him all year and was in the match into the third against #2. Got a little out of position as he was trying to push the action and got caught. Maybe could have worked deeper into 3rd, but overall, if he wrestles like that. He will have a shot to AA

141 WOODS- A Handled a mid-ranked kid very easily and got a major. Would have liked to see a little more in the 3rd but he is looking like a CHAMPION!

149 MURIN B Got maybe a little sloppy/over aggressive and taken down early. Came back strong shutting kid down the rest of match.

157 COBE- C+ Wrestled an AA type kid intoTB2, did not show much of his own offense!

165 KENNEDY B Once again you see just how insanely tuff this weight class is!!! Gave up a TD, also was in real deep on another double and maybe let off the gas a little? Got back to double when he needed it and also showed some of his own D/counter at end to secure the W

174 BRANDS A Beat the kind of kid he will need TWOOO to AA. His hand fighting is nails! Would like to see more offense, but I am thinking we are seeing a plan of how they want him to wrestle.

184 ASSAD A+ WELCOME BACK!!! Was great seeing him back out there. To take out a higher ranked kid 1st match back, all the more better!

197 WARNER B Got a win in a bit of an ugly way. Rode the piss outa the kid in 2nd, got a clasp call, and an escape after giving up early TD. Very happy he got the win, he certainly deserves to go out a winner in his last home match!

Heavy BIG CASS B Nothing special, got an easy victory. Maybe took a page from the F*** st guys, riding near ankle. Looked like he was working on that pretty hard. Might be something he can use down the road.

Looked like an AWESOME CROWD, Liked see BULL talking with Nelson. No real complaints about REFs which is always good, HAWKS moving in the right direction!!!
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First of all, loved being there in person…always great going back to Iowa! To the scores, I’m giving Murin a C and Cobe a B. I was close enough to see Murin’s facial expressions (thank you Cody), and based on his facial expressions I think he would give himself a D; I do not think he was happy with how he closed out his CHA experience. As for Cobe, I think he wrestles smart - with an injured shoulder - and think that’s how he’s going to beat the higher ranked opponents…let them get to his leg and then out funk them. Finally, I think Cass was ill so don’t think it’s fair to grade him…that was not him on the mat. He’s got to be in the midst of or recovering from something. The healthy version of Cass would have turned that guy for the fall. Loved going to CHA!! What an amazing atmosphere!! And for the first time I experienced the CHA ice cream cone…so freaking good!
 
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blcoach80 said:
Not grades, but that meet was very "Nebraska level domination" with our full lineup finally on display. They made me feel a lot better about March after those performances yesterday.

125- Fitting end to an amazing career at Carver. I expected no less from Lee and once again he delivered.

133- Worst loss of the year for Brody, but the best he has looked all year. I have no problem with him losing the way he did. Go for the win, not the 4-3 loss. Brody can absolutely AA this year.

141- I have said it for 6 weeks now and Real looks even better now than 6 weeks ago. He is a champ this year.

149- While Max eaks out close wins, he seems more confident and in control this year in those wins.

157- He is right there. If he is ok he has a shot at the podium. If he has a major shoulder issue, he doesn't. Cobe has been a great surprise this year and is right there with everyone at this weight. Not many gave him a chance in November.

165- Keeps climbing up the ladder. Seeding will be very important at NCAA's for this weight. There are a couple guys you don't want to see in the quarters.

174/184- Great wins for both guys against higher ranked guys. Seeding will be important here as well. Both showed they can AA this year and I wasn't so sure a month ago.

197- Warner has me concerned this year. Hopefully he can push through whatever is going on in March. A 4 time AA is a great career regardless of how much crap Warner gets.

285- Very workman like while in control the whole time.

Two weeks of healing for everyone and an injury free top 2 team performance at B10s is all that matters now. Great showing last night from top to bottom. We won all but one toss up match ( and we were the underdog in that one really). I'll take it. John looked like he was pretty disgusted most of that dual imo.
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That’s one of the fun things about going to CHA when OKIE comes to town…watching John go off. In fact he even went off on his own guy once, screaming at Young at the top of his lungs to do something. He was not happy with the way Young was manhandled by Woods.
 
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Fwiw, you may be interested to know that I think Iowa has MORE than 3 AA’s based on what I saw last night (reversing an observation from earlier in the season). I think it’s safe to bet on the over. You can thank me later ;)
 
A little bit of pessimism versus others but my thoughts…

141–That was a salty opponent. Woods has it all right now, agree he is the favorite in Tulsa.
149–Murin should be 3-4 points better than that kid. That is a R16 or R24 match not a R12.
157– Shoulder brace!
165– That match was seriously in question in that last sequence. Not a great showing, however Sheets is wrestling well and gave Griffith a good match.
174–Brands best win ever? Well done although I think Plott has been slumping.
184–Abe dug deep and big confidence builder.
197– JWar was gifted this. 3 huge breaks—stalemated while in Turk, wasn’t going to get turned but would have been tons of RT, locked hands call and premature PD when he was in peril.
 
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blcoach80 said:
197- Warner has me concerned this year. Hopefully he can push through whatever is going on in March. A 4 time AA is a great career regardless of how much crap Warner gets.
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This is very Warneresque. Unfortunately, this is the strategy that wins at NCAAs - especially on Friday and Saturday nights. The refs are not going to call stalling. If there is not a huge talent gap, the wrestler that does this the best wins.

PSU is very good at it. Warner is pretty good at it when it counts. Play defense and don’t give up a TD, get your escape point, and stall ride to try to get a riding time point (bonus if you can stall ride the entire period without giving up the escape). Maybe throw in an unexpected shot and TD when the opportunity is ideal. This constitutes most finals matches and why Saturday night is usually a snooze fest.
 
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Nashville_Hawkeye said:
Finally, I think Cass was ill so don’t think it’s fair to grade him…that was not him on the mat. He’s got to be in the midst of or recovering from something. The healthy version of Cass would have turned that guy for the fall.
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That doesn't seem logical. I think Cass was fine, it's just that Doucet is a rock defensively. Cass won 4-0, whereas Parris beat Doucet 5-3 and Elam beat him 4-2--that's 2 guys who've beaten Cass this year.
 
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SPOONER said:
That doesn't seem logical. I think Cass was fine, it's just that Doucet is a rock defensively. Cass won 4-0, whereas Parris beat Doucet 5-3 and Elam beat him 4-2--that's 2 guys who've beaten Cass this year.
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The smaller Elam beat JWar in an exhibition, Cass hasn’t wrestled the bigger bro. He lost to Parris and Kerk.
 
OptionalStart said:
A little bit of pessimism versus others but my thoughts…

141–That was a salty opponent. Woods has it all right now, agree he is the favorite in Tulsa.
149–Murin should be 3-4 points better than that kid. That is a R16 or R24 match not a R12.
157– Shoulder brace!
165– That match was seriously in question in that last sequence. Not a great showing, however Sheets is wrestling well and gave Griffith a good match.
174–Brands best win ever? Well done although I think Plott has been slumping.
184–Abe dug deep and big confidence builder.
197– JWar was gifted this. 3 huge breaks—stalemated while in Turk, wasn’t going to get turned but would have been tons of RT, locked hands call and premature PD when he was in peril.
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And I have some pessimism with your take.

1- I'm not sure how you consider Carter Young a salty opponent, but not Voinovich at 149. Tbh it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Voinovich places higher than Young.
2- I thought it was a good showing against the real definition of a "salty" opponent.
3- that stalemate was 100% the correct call. The locked hands was 100% the correct call, and that PD was 100% the correct call.
I don't like winning that way as much as anyone else, but instead of saying Warner got bailed out perhaps we should say that Surber had a brain fart and shit the mat instead?
 
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Nashville_Hawkeye said:
That’s one of the fun things about going to CHA when OKIE comes to town…watching John go off. In fact he even went off on his own guy once, screaming at Young at the top of his lungs to do something. He was not happy with the way Young was manhandled by Woods.
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I actually thought his assistant coach was far more unhinged than John.
 
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A Fist Full of Hawkeyes said:
And I have some pessimism with your take.

1- I'm not sure how you consider Carter Young a salty opponent, but not Voinovich at 149. Tbh it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Voinovich places higher than Young.
2- I thought it was a good showing against the real definition of a "salty" opponent.
3- that stalemate was 100% the correct call. The locked hands was 100% the correct call, and that PD was 100% the correct call.
I don't like winning that way as much as anyone else, but instead of saying Warner got bailed out perhaps we should say that Surber had a brain fart and shit the mat instead?
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My problem with JWar is he’s been getting burned with the strategy he’s employing. He got upset by Foy, Braunagel and nearly lost to Surber and Silas from Nebbie. There are a couple 197lber he hasn’t faced yet this season that could easily pull an upset at B10s. Everyone knows how good Caffey is, when he realizes it, look out. Amos is a specimen that has all the ability in the world and Jaxon Smith from Maryland (yes Maryland) looks as good as anyone from Maryland has looked in a long time. JWar has his work cut out for him. Last year he had too amazing upset wins vs Schultz and Buchanan. Unless he blazes through B10s, he’s going to find himself in quite the hole round 1 at nattys
 
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SPOONER said:
Doh! I was wrong. Thanks, Gents. A highly ranked/AA level guy regardless. A pin would have been surprising (yet awesome).
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You are correct. Cass gave Doucet his worst loss of the year.

Doucet has wrestled 23 matches this year and is 15-8. His 8 losses were as follows:

Joles, Minny, 2-1 TB-1
Heindselman, Oklahoma, 2-1 TB-1
Niesenbaum, Duke, 3-2
Gordon, UNI, 3-2
Parris, Michigan, 5-3
Elam, Mizzou, 4-2
Nevills, SDSU, 4-3 TB-1
Cass, Iowa, 4-0

He’s given up a total of 51 points in 23 matches. Cass controlled that match against a very stingy wrestler.
 
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A Fist Full of Hawkeyes said:
And I have some pessimism with your take.

1- I'm not sure how you consider Carter Young a salty opponent, but not Voinovich at 149. Tbh it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Voinovich places higher than Young.
2- I thought it was a good showing against the real definition of a "salty" opponent.
3- that stalemate was 100% the correct call. The locked hands was 100% the correct call, and that PD was 100% the correct call.
I don't like winning that way as much as anyone else, but instead of saying Warner got bailed out perhaps we should say that Surber had a brain fart and shit the mat instead?
Click to expand...

I just feel as though Voinovich quickly established himself around #20 and stayed there whereas Young struggled early and has come on lately with his ranking rising. The hot hand of you will. Guys like Milner, Abas, and Hensen scare me more than VV.

Fair enough on JWar and can put it on Surber, I am sure he is kicking himself. Think the PD and stalemate would be questionable calls at best, not sure how you can say 100% on those. The PD is unfortunately a situation in like every other match in today’s wrestling.
 
OptionalStart said:
I just feel as though Voinovich quickly established himself around #20 and stayed there whereas Young struggled early and has come on lately with his ranking rising. The hot hand of you will. Guys like Milner, Abas, and Hensen scare me more than VV.

Fair enough on JWar and can put it on Surber, I am sure he is kicking himself. Think the PD and stalemate would be questionable calls at best, not sure how you can say 100% on those. The PD is unfortunately a situation in like every other match in today’s wrestling.
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OptionalStart said:
I just feel as though Voinovich quickly established himself around #20 and stayed there whereas Young struggled early and has come on lately with his ranking rising. The hot hand of you will. Guys like Milner, Abas, and Hensen scare me more than VV.

Fair enough on JWar and can put it on Surber, I am sure he is kicking himself. Think the PD and stalemate would be questionable calls at best, not sure how you can say 100% on those. The PD is unfortunately a situation in like every other match in today’s wrestling.
Click to expand...

All that being said if we define “salty” as R16 ish then Murin beating them by 1 fending off the last 30 seconds is disappointing while Woods dominating them is impressive, so both can be considered salty if you like and my comments on MM and Woods would still stand IMO.
 
OptionalStart said:
I just feel as though Voinovich quickly established himself around #20 and stayed there whereas Young struggled early and has come on lately with his ranking rising. The hot hand of you will. Guys like Milner, Abas, and Hensen scare me more than VV.

Fair enough on JWar and can put it on Surber, I am sure he is kicking himself. Think the PD and stalemate would be questionable calls at best, not sure how you can say 100% on those. The PD is unfortunately a situation in like every other match in today’s wrestling.
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I'd would rather see a PD called early everytime than late once. That's how injuries happen.

And that stalemate was warranted. Surber wasn't doing anything with the turk, nor was he trying to. He was solely eating clock and Rivera knew it.
On the flip side, Warner couldn't improve his positioning and the only thing he could manage was to hold on.

Voinovich is going to be damn good. Hot take: he'll have more All-American finishes than Murin.
 
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A Fist Full of Hawkeyes said:
And I have some pessimism with your take.

1- I'm not sure how you consider Carter Young a salty opponent, but not Voinovich at 149. Tbh it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Voinovich places higher than Young.
2- I thought it was a good showing against the real definition of a "salty" opponent.
3- that stalemate was 100% the correct call. The locked hands was 100% the correct call, and that PD was 100% the correct call.
I don't like winning that way as much as anyone else, but instead of saying Warner got bailed out perhaps we should say that Surber had a brain fart and shit the mat instead?
Click to expand...
On the last comment, can I guess not invited to the black tie dinner?
 
The only thing I will add is that the Cowboys came to wrestle. For as long as I can remember I can’t think of a time where not one single Cowboy did not play the edge game like the dual on Sunday. Cudos to them for bringing it and giving the Hawks everything they wanted. Even their 125lber tried to hit a big move on Spencer where he succeeds against anybody other than Spencer. Always had a ton of respect for coach Smith and he earned more of that the way his guys wrestled. Bottom line probably the best we looked this late in the year in a long time! Very excited about BIGS and can’t wait to see what these can do!!
 
so cal hawkfan said:
My problem with JWar is he’s been getting burned with the strategy he’s employing. He got upset by Foy, Braunagel and nearly lost to Surber and Silas from Nebbie. There are a couple 197lber he hasn’t faced yet this season that could easily pull an upset at B10s. Everyone knows how good Caffey is, when he realizes it, look out. Amos is a specimen that has all the ability in the world and Jaxon Smith from Maryland (yes Maryland) looks as good as anyone from Maryland has looked in a long time. JWar has his work cut out for him. Last year he had too amazing upset wins vs Schultz and Buchanan. Unless he blazes through B10s, he’s going to find himself in quite the whole round 1 at nattys
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Oh yeah, I completely agree.
If this version of Warner shows up in March he's in serious trouble.
 
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Spoons said:
The only thing I will add is that the Cowboys came to wrestle. For as long as I can remember I can’t think of a time where not one single Cowboy did not play the edge game like the dual on Sunday. Cudos to them for bringing it and giving the Hawks everything they wanted. Even their 125lber tried to hit a big move on Spencer where he succeeds against anybody other than Spencer. Always had a ton of respect for coach Smith and he earned more of that the way his guys wrestled. Bottom line probably the best we looked this late in the year in a long time! Very excited about BIGS and can’t wait to see what these can do!!
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It should be noted that was have been at full strength twice this year (correct me if I'm wrong) and the results were 34-6 over #5 Nebraska and 28-7 over #10 Okie. It would be great to see us mostly healthy and ready to compete in March.
 
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so cal hawkfan said:
My problem with JWar is he’s been getting burned with the strategy he’s employing. He got upset by Foy, Braunagel and nearly lost to Surber and Silas from Nebbie. There are a couple 197lber he hasn’t faced yet this season that could easily pull an upset at B10s. Everyone knows how good Caffey is, when he realizes it, look out. Amos is a specimen that has all the ability in the world and Jaxon Smith from Maryland (yes Maryland) looks as good as anyone from Maryland has looked in a long time. JWar has his work cut out for him. Last year he had too amazing upset wins vs Schultz and Buchanan. Unless he blazes through B10s, he’s going to find himself in quite the hole round 1 at nattys
Click to expand...
The other side of that is 197 is very deep and someone is going to find themselves up against a very dangerous 8-12 seeded Jacob Warner in the Rd of 16. I believe he can beat anyone in the field including Dean but he can also lose to anyone in the top 20.
 
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SPOONER said:
That doesn't seem logical. I think Cass was fine, it's just that Doucet is a rock defensively. Cass won 4-0, whereas Parris beat Doucet 5-3 and Elam beat him 4-2--that's 2 guys who've beaten Cass this year.
Click to expand...
I'm merely saying what I saw from center stage. I'm not taking anything away from Doucet, but Cass did not look like himself.
 
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