Penn State just got hosed
- Thread starter SotaHawk87
- Start date
Provide documentation proving the league wants the refs to favor the home team on calls. (you must not have understood the way I phrased it the first time)
Your claim is simply crazy. There is no merit to it and it charges the officials of corruption. Your opinion on officials are not needed and are flat out lies.
I literally said that the games aren’t rigged. I am saying that the style of basketball is ****ing horrible and it leads to closer games and more variable outcomes. The conference obviously wants it that way because they don’t do anything to change it. It’s brutal for the sport, and catches up to the conference at tournament time.
That is charging the officials and conference with corruption.
There have been quite a few studies of the home ice/court/field advantage in team sports. There is a home field/ice/court advantage in every team sport.
The psychological explanation is another Occam's razor situation. In the very same micro second that an official sees a play, somewhere between hundreds and up to tens of thousands in the stands sees exactly the same play. The official hears the crowd reaction and it affects judgment.
The results conflict with official's self perception. Most officials actually believe they can block out the crowd but there are damn few people on Earth who actually can block the crowd noise including elite athletes that do it best. Its like the US is 29th in math skills but American HS students rate themselves number 1.
There are many problems with the integrity of the Big Ten and its officiating but the existence of what should be the minor advantage typically gained from home venue is the least of those issues. It could not be eliminated even if some rule could be passed or disciplinary action taken because home venue advantage arises from a reaction that is significantly, if not entirely, the product of a natural human immediate involuntary reaction. The better officials are, in part, better because they can minimize the crowd effect but no one can completely eliminate it.
The natural occurrence of home court advantage and the occasional good faith mistake by officials, because that's also a natural product of human endeavor, the very best teams make unforced errors, would be much more understandable and forgivable if the Big Ten made some attempt to eliminate what is either grossly incompetent officiating and/or dishonest officiating.
Of course the absence of fans will have an effect on the officiating, it should make it more even. We will see the numbers at season's end.
The psychological explanation is another Occam's razor situation. In the very same micro second that an official sees a play, somewhere between hundreds and up to tens of thousands in the stands sees exactly the same play. The official hears the crowd reaction and it affects judgment.
The results conflict with official's self perception. Most officials actually believe they can block out the crowd but there are damn few people on Earth who actually can block the crowd noise including elite athletes that do it best. Its like the US is 29th in math skills but American HS students rate themselves number 1.
There are many problems with the integrity of the Big Ten and its officiating but the existence of what should be the minor advantage typically gained from home venue is the least of those issues. It could not be eliminated even if some rule could be passed or disciplinary action taken because home venue advantage arises from a reaction that is significantly, if not entirely, the product of a natural human immediate involuntary reaction. The better officials are, in part, better because they can minimize the crowd effect but no one can completely eliminate it.
The natural occurrence of home court advantage and the occasional good faith mistake by officials, because that's also a natural product of human endeavor, the very best teams make unforced errors, would be much more understandable and forgivable if the Big Ten made some attempt to eliminate what is either grossly incompetent officiating and/or dishonest officiating.
Of course the absence of fans will have an effect on the officiating, it should make it more even. We will see the numbers at season's end.
part of the problem with explaining calls to coaches or players is once you explain one then you run the risk of having to explain them all .
Uh, the Big Ten and some of its officials are corrupt. The Big Ten ratifies the corruption by watching the same guys do the same things for years with no attempt to discipline or restrain them. It works out because, barring this Covid year, the league makes more money every year.
Apparently Rutgers is willing to back talk a classic Big Ten screwing. More programs need to stand up to the conference leadership in public. Its the only thing that will cause reform.
i dont think the conference really gives a shit but i am not a conspiracy theory person .
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is this serious? When asking why it is not a foul or to explain what verticality is to them it is met by no response? That is a joke
i was afriad DSD would wake up and get involved . he is a conspiracy lunatic .
That is one wild, crazy, damning claim. Of course you can validate it otherwise you would make such a claim. Show us your conclusive evidence.
he wont . we went round and round last year over the same BS , DSD is a conspiracy nut .
Papa, papa, papa. How many times do I have to tell you that calling me names does not disprove anything I've said; it merely exposes either your subject matter ignorance or inability to explain your disagreement with me? I can sense your struggle for an explanation and resort to junior high name calling given the position you've taken requires thousands of people to ignore what they see with their own eyes and believe what you tell them they have seen-thousands of people all around the Big Ten. The corrupt officiating in the Big Ten has been going on for forty years or longer. Its probably been 15 years since Digger Phelps said of the Big Ten officiating "When something has been this bad for this long you have to look for another reason [than incompetence]."
I'm not a conspiracy theorist but the old dog has had a very eventful and multi-faceted journey through the real world, by which I mean the dark beyond the fire. Have you ever actually unwound a conspiracy? Ever engage in the kinds of negotiations for which no written record could ever exist to pursue a community of goals that can never be explicitly spoken? I'm saying the answer is probably a "no" on both. You know nothing of conspiracies or the complexity of arranging so you, like most people, have no real idea of how the world "out there" works.
One hard and fast reality exists: coincidence is never the explanation for anything of significance, especially when large sums of money are involved. We just watched the Big Ten change its rules to get tOSU into the playoff. Was that the product of noblesse oblige or avarice? What say you? You watched the Big Ten change the rules again to allow teams to play a "rival game", a decision that directly and grievously hurt Iowa. Again, I'd wager the decision turned on a desperate hope for cash flow in a disastrous market outweighing any adverse effect on the individual untermenchen schools like Iowa-which most notoriously blew up in the league's face-in making that decision.
There's no reason to be uncivil papa.
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What do you consider "conclusive" evidence? Of course, no one associated with the Big Ten would ever admit shading games to bring about a preferred outcome.
I can certainly provide numerous examples of outrageously and objectively indefensible officiating that cannot be explained as the product of anything but cheating and the Big Ten's ratification of that cheating by doing nothing to the officials that cheated.
Using a recent example not involving the Hawks, did you catch the second half of the Rutgers tOSU game? If so, do you think that was a well officiated half of ball? A merely poorly officiated game has many officials errors but they tend to break about even, with a slight advantage typically going to the home team. A corruptly officiated game sees the "mistakes" disproportionately going against just one team. A league that does nothing about either scenario is a league that likes the results of the either bad or dishonest officiating. The Big Ten does nothing in response to the bad officiating, except occasionally apologize to the cheated team, which is an empty gesture is it not?
Do you have evidence to the contrary? Or do you believe the many bizarre officiating incidents in the Big Ten are all explained as just good faith mistakes or misunderstandings that coincidentally have the effect of benefiting the higher media profile teams-year after year. If the later, why? Because somewhere along the line you got the idea that life is fair and everyone acts with good intentions? If so, my friend, reality will seriously disappoint you.
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lol , ok how about i change it to a conspiracy person , is that better ? how is it you can type so much but say so little ? i thought i was listening to a trump speech . lol
More junior high snark yet no explanation of why I'm wrong. You truly are a Democrat, assuming such supreme moral authority that you do not need to accept fact or logic, just mindlessly believe what you're told and just as mindlessly hurtle insults at those with whom you disagree because you cannot explain how you came to your belief. I'll leave the politics at that. Since you again did even attempt to explain my error and merely tossed further insults you've certainly proven, yet again either ignorance of the subject matter or any ability to explain why I'm wrong. Continued name calling and junior high school snark does not make you appear either informed or intelligent, just mean spirited.
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dont be a pussy dude . so what you want is for me to mindlessly believe you ? where is your proof of fact or logic ? when i said i thought i was listening to a trump speech you do realize that was an attempt at humor right ? here is why you are wrong on saying the big 10 is corrupt especially when it comes to saying they tell the officials who to favor { which you did last year } . if any of this corruption ever came forward and i am talking about hard evidence , it would ruin the BIG 10 . pure and simple .
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i am curious which game you have watched lately where ALL the calls went one way . just curious .
There is a Big Ten Official's Supervisor who evaluates officials and handles protests. The last thing the Big Ten wants is corrupt officials. It would have a major negative effect on recruiting and quality play in the league. Your insight is not credible. You are not a trained official nor do you have experience. Are there mistakes during a game? Yes. Are they deliberate "rigging"? No. Does a bad official get weeded out by the league upon evaluation? Yes.
Not when it is a point of emphasis that is sent to coaches and officials at the beginning of the year. A simple question is fairly easy to answer. some do. Like when asking why that was called a travel and the ref says while running down the floor "his pivot foot started to drag" took all of 3 seconds and no more questions were asked. Again this would not be a problem but all refs are different and view rules differently.
OK, I'll walk back the political remark. Very touchy about that these days.
OK, I can see where you were joking. My humor often does not translate into the screen so I get it now.
As I said, the officials don't need to be told what to do. They can read the name on the jerseys. For example, and this is long time ago, but it was no secret that about half a dozen big ten officials simply hated Lute Olson, chief among them the shit bag Jim Bain. The Big Ten office, in making the official assignments knew that Bain would screw Iowa every time he officiated us. Telling Bain what to do was unnecessary. His assignment was a virtual guarantee that Iowa would lose. Filthy Phil Bova was much the same way. You knew before the game that winning would be virtually impossible. Larry Scriotto is reaching that level, although the omnipresence of cable networks and social media operate to prevent the new age guys from getting away with the shit Bain and Bova pulled in games.
Totally agree it would destroy the credibility of the Big Ten, which explains the lack of any meaningful remedy. First the person that made the decision to admit any wrong doing would never work again in sports management-the guy that killed the Big Ten would not be popular in the industry. Admitting even the existence of one cheater or gambler would create an infinite regression of questions, like "when did the Big Ten suspect dishonesty" or "why wasn't action taken sooner".
So apply the first rule of institutional management, everything is subordinated to the security and credibility of the institution being being managed.
Then, apply the financial incentives gained from "national franchise" teams, I first heard that term applied to intercollegiate athletics last night. Yet, it says so much. More people will watch Indiana than Iowa. Same with tOSU and the Michigan teams. Money comes from selling broadcasting rights. The bigger the audience the more income from selling broadcast rights. So teams like Indiana and Michigan State will typically be playing with angels on their shoulders because they are the big game, the elephants, of income. Maximizing income is the second rule of all institutions that require money.
Of course you should believe me. The contrary explanation is 40 years of public controversy about the officiating in the Big Ten, and no major conference generates officiating controversies like the Big Ten, is all the product of conspiracy theories, including guys like Digger Phelps and Al McGwire in those conspiracies.
Immodestly I'd add I have a rare ability to detect patterns and the corollary aberrations from patterns. If we sat down in a pair of easy chairs and watched about 8 hours of video you'd come to agree with me.
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but if the official calls a travel the fact that the pivot foot was drug or moved should be obvious , no need to ask or answer .
When did this practice start?
What is the annual turnover rate?
Other than Ted Valentine's public statements about "liking MSU's style of play", as if the rest of the league did not already know it, has the Big Ten ever disciplined a basketball or football official for mistakes or inexplicable calls/no calls?
Just so you know I'm not talking about routine travel calls and the like. The officials cant see everywhere all the time and missing the occasional travel, for example, is the inevitable product of using human referees. Since there is no alternative, fortunately, the officials are not and cannot be perfect.
But questions are warranted if that same travel call is not going both ways.
i think you just used the magic phrase , the inevitable product of using human referees . that alone should answer a lot of peoples questions .
It has happened.
Big Ten administrators dismiss staff for poor officiating
Four officials who worked the Sept. 21 Purdue-Wake Forest football game were dismissed by the Big Ten Conference on Wednesday after being determined to have done a poor job during
Lol, you are truly an official. Unable to admit there may be bias and bad calls. My other point I would like to make is why they explain calls to some coaches but not others?
a big no to the last question . people like digger and al have axes to grind , their careers did not turn like they wanted them to and they know being controversial keeps them in the limelight like most announcers that rail on the officials constantly . if you want posters like me and twister to believe you and take you seriously you need to provide some hard evidence and not your opinion or believes , its that simple .
BOOMIt has happened.
Big Ten administrators dismiss staff for poor officiating
Four officials who worked the Sept. 21 Purdue-Wake Forest football game were dismissed by the Big Ten Conference on Wednesday after being determined to have done a poor job duringwww.purdueexponent.org
It has happened.
Big Ten administrators dismiss staff for poor officiating
Four officials who worked the Sept. 21 Purdue-Wake Forest football game were dismissed by the Big Ten Conference on Wednesday after being determined to have done a poor job during
That was once, 18 years ago. How about the officials that were obviously engaged in some unfair or illegal conduct in the Iowa Purdue game in 2019. A 4th and 1 dead ball situation ring a bell? There is no explanation other than contrivance to explain the official's behavior on that call. Not a slam bam situation and it was replayed, so what did the officials tell their supervisors they thought they saw? It would have to be some form of "the light was green" although the computer than runs the cycles say it was red and the photographs show it was red.
Simply pretending to see things that did not happen nor failing to see things at which one is plainly looking is no more believable than the traffic scofflaw that claimed his light was green when everyone else saw it was plainly red.
That officiating crew was either so incompetent that they should not be working in a premier conference or so dishonest that they should not be officiating at all. It was a situation in which good faith error cannot be a rational explanation.
P.S. I just noticed the result of that game. Purdue lost to Wake. Perhaps those officials were simply too honest for Big Ten tastes.
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Would you say that you are biased too? As a general rule, no, they are not biased. I am an official and have been rubbing elbows with fellow officials for 20 years. What are your credentials?
here is the point where i tell you you dont read very many of my posts . i have never said that some officials may not be biased and that bad calls do that happened . bad calls happen EVERY game . i get just as upset as everyone else . my dog leaves the room when i start getting loud . there was a blocking foul called on joe t in the minny game around the 8 minute mark , bad call , tough call , bang bang but i thought it was wrong . the step back 3 pointer that got them to within 3 point horrible non call . he took 2 full steps back to get away from our defense . not sure how it could have been missed but it was . officials are human , most of them are trying to juggle full time jobs and families and fly or drive all over the country to officiate . people badger them all the time . we expect perfection and perfection is just something to strive for but is an unattainable goal .
no , the fourth and 1 does not ring a bell , more info please . maybe it was just a bad call ? they happen .
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