Penn State just got hosed

[BioHawk]

Big 10 officials aren't corrupt. They just are really, really bad. The game is too fast for them and part time officials just don't have the training to keep up. Even NBA officials have a hard time calling games properly and it's their full time job. Until there is more investment in training and preperation this is what we have.

 

[CalmHawk]

Would you say that you are biased too? As a general rule, no, they are not biased. I am an official and have been rubbing elbows with fellow officials for 20 years. What are your credentials?

I am a coach that has watched you and your colleagues rub elbows with opposing coaches that have been coaching for 20 years also and see that a relationship build with them gets them the benefit of the doubt more than not

 

[papabeef]

Big 10 officials aren't corrupt. They just are really, really bad. The game is too fast for them and part time officials just don't have the training to keep up. Even NBA officials have a hard time calling games properly and it's their full time job. Until there is more investment in training and preperation this is what we have.

part of the problem is the need to gain game experience which comes with age . we have 45 to 60 year old officials trying to keep up with 17 to 23 year old players who condition on a daily basis for the most part year round . i am curious what your qualifications are to say big10 officials are very very bad . have you ever been a licensed official or studied a rule or case book , just curious .

 

[papabeef]

I am a coach that has watched you and your colleagues rub elbows with opposing coaches that have been coaching for 20 years also and see that a relationship build with them gets them the benefit of the doubt more than not

sounds like you werent smart enough to develop any relationships that might help you . lol

 

[CalmHawk]

sounds like you werent smart enough to develop any relationships that might help you . lol

And you just admitted that there is refs that are biased and coaches benefit from relationships with refs. Listen I am sure you are a good ref, but there are refs out there that aren't good

 

[CalmHawk]

Do fellow refs hold others accountable?

 

[BioHawk]

part of the problem is the need to gain game experience which comes with age . we have 45 to 60 year old officials trying to keep up with 17 to 23 year old players who condition on a daily basis for the most part year round . i am curious what your qualifications are to say big10 officials are very very bad . have you ever been a licensed official or studied a rule or case book , just curious .

I never claimed I would be a good official. It is possible to know the rules of a sport and not officiate it.

What I see on TV is not good. If you are supposed to call hand checking, then call hand checking. Some sort of consistency with blocking/charge would be nice. I get that it's hard, which is why I want them to go to full time officials in both basketball and football. More training would address many of the issues I have seen. If you feel that the current level of officiating is acceptable for Division 1 basketball then there really isn't much more to discuss.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

There is a Big Ten Official's Supervisor who evaluates officials and handles protests. The last thing the Big Ten wants is corrupt officials. It would have a major negative effect on recruiting and quality play in the league. Your insight is not credible. You are not a trained official nor do you have experience. Are there mistakes during a game? Yes. Are they deliberate "rigging"? No. Does a bad official get weeded out by the league upon evaluation? Yes.

whatever you say, Mr McJunkins

 

[papabeef]

And you just admitted that there is refs that are biased and coaches benefit from relationships with refs. Listen I am sure you are a good ref, but there are refs out there that aren't good

i believe that there COULD be

Do fellow refs hold others accountable?

sure . i have went to my association secretary 2 or 3 times over my years of varsity officiating bball and told him so and so needs a butt chewing for not knowing their rule book and that i did want to ref with them again .

 

[texas twister]

I am a coach that has watched you and your colleagues rub elbows with opposing coaches that have been coaching for 20 years also and see that a relationship build with them gets them the benefit of the doubt more than not

Means nothing. I use to coach and have many, many, many coaches that I have been friends with for decades. It doesn't result in me compromising my integrity nor the integrity of the sport. I believe that is almost always the way it is with all officials. 3 strikes - you're out.

 

[papabeef]

And you just admitted that there is refs that are biased and coaches benefit from relationships with refs. Listen I am sure you are a good ref, but there are refs out there that aren't good

you read alot into my post . it was an attempt at humor . i believe their could be bias just as their could be satan . just no obvious proof .

 

[texas twister]

Do fellow refs hold others accountable?

YES!!!

 

[texas twister]

whatever you say, Mr McJunkins

Debate rule #3 - when being thrashed by the facts, resort to childish name calling.

 

[CalmHawk]

YES!!!

I would like to know how. for example, when a team has 8 fouls to 0 after quarter 1 (just an example, not an experience I have had recently) How does it end up say 10 fouls to 7 at halftime? Why are their so many swings like that in a game with reffing?

 

[papabeef]

I never claimed I would be a good official. It is possible to know the rules of a sport and not officiate it.

What I see on TV is not good. If you are supposed to call hand checking, then call hand checking. Some sort of consistency with blocking/charge would be nice. I get that it's hard, which is why I want them to go to full time officials in both basketball and football. More training would address many of the issues I have seen. If you feel that the current level of officiating is acceptable for Division 1 basketball then there really isn't much more to discuss.

give me your definition of hand checking and yes D1 officiating is just fine . the human element will always be there .

 

[CalmHawk]

Also do refs not call as many fouls when a team runs zone as a rule? I have heard a ref say they have less fouls because they run zone.....

 

[BioHawk]

give me your definition of hand checking and yes D1 officiating is just fine . the human element will always be there .

Ok, I get it. You think the officiating is all hunky dory. Sorry if you are friends with an official or something. Far too often the officials are a significant factor in a game. But anyway:

1. When a defensive player keeps a hand or forearm on an opponent, it is a personal foul.
2. When a defensive player puts two hands on an opponent, it is a personal foul.
3. When a defensive player continually jabs by extending his arm(s) and placing a hand or forearm on the opponent, it is a personal foul.
4. When a defensive player uses an arm bar to impede the progress of a dribbler, it is a personal foul.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

a big no to the last question . people like digger and al have axes to grind , their careers did not turn like they wanted them to and they know being controversial keeps them in the limelight like most announcers that rail on the officials constantly . if you want posters like me and twister to believe you and take you seriously you need to provide some hard evidence and not your opinion or believes , its that simple .

But basketball officials are so lacking in imperfection cheating is beyond them. Schools cheat in admissions, and not just in athletics. Coaches cheat in recruiting. Players take money from agents. But the officials, they are immune from dishonest motives.

As for real visible proof, lets start with my football example from above. There is no good faith mistake defense for those officials. What did the Big Ten do to discipline them?

Here's a pattern on which to keep an eye. It varies to a certain extent, but Michigan, Sparty, Indiana, the Turtles, Brutus and Bucky are the league's important basketball franchises. The other 8 teams exist to provide them with competition. So, watch for officials swallowing their whistles when one of the big 6 are playing poorly. It keeps them in the game where they would be otherwise far behind. MSU is particularly shady because their fouling is so obvious. Once the Big Six team recovers its equilibrium the officiating starts to even out, the high profile wins and everyone but the untermenchen are happy. That is an observable pattern.

Another similar vein of dishonesty happens, and once again not every official every game but some officials in games that are critical in the league's regular season standings is the guys that will rescue the important "franchise" with a barrage of calls and no calls in a short time, creating a dispositive swing of momentum. This is what obviously happened in the Rutgers Ohio State game. The officiating changed abruptly and became very one sided and quite outrageously so.

But there are other less overtly corrupt things. Like the the officials that just do not like a coach or a program. Again, it is not realistic to believe such biases do not exist. I find it impossible to believe that there are not at least a few officials that think Fran is a prick and some do their best to frustrate him. I'm shit with names so I cannot remember which Eades but of one those two hate Iowa. He inflicts an obvious double standard on Iowa, every game regardless of opponent. I'll bet Rob Dibler knows about the animosity when he assigns that Eades to Iowa games. Other officials may have other enemies, which can be indulged as long as the Big Six aren't getting burned.

Finally, I could give many examples from the past but I'll start noting the calls at the time and we can look at contemporary events simultaneously.

 

[papabeef]

Ok, I get it. You think the officiating is all hunky dory. Sorry if you are friends with an official or something. Far too often the officials are a significant factor in a game. But anyway:

1. When a defensive player keeps a hand or forearm on an opponent, it is a personal foul.
2. When a defensive player puts two hands on an opponent, it is a personal foul.
3. When a defensive player continually jabs by extending his arm(s) and placing a hand or forearm on the opponent, it is a personal foul.
4. When a defensive player uses an arm bar to impede the progress of a dribbler, it is a personal foul.

lol . some of that is true some is not . i was an offficial for 20 some years and yes i do have some friends that are officials . until you are willing to expect perfection out of the players dont expect perfection out of the refs .

 

[papabeef]

But basketball officials are so lacking in imperfection cheating is beyond them. Schools cheat in admissions, and not just in athletics. Coaches cheat in recruiting. Players take money from agents. But the officials, they are immune from dishonest motives.

As for real visible proof, lets start with my football example from above. There is no good faith mistake defense for those officials. What did the Big Ten do to discipline them?

Here's a pattern on which to keep an eye. It varies to a certain extent, but Michigan, Sparty, Indiana, the Turtles, Brutus and Bucky are the league's important basketball franchises. The other 8 teams exist to provide them with competition. So, watch for officials swallowing their whistles when one of the big 6 are playing poorly. It keeps them in the game where they would be otherwise far behind. MSU is particularly shady because their fouling is so obvious. Once the Big Six team recovers its equilibrium the officiating starts to even out, the high profile wins and everyone but the untermenchen are happy. That is an observable pattern.

Another similar vein of dishonesty happens, and once again not every official every game but some officials in games that are critical in the league's regular season standings is the guys that will rescue the important "franchise" with a barrage of calls and no calls in a short time, creating a dispositive swing of momentum. This is what obviously happened in the Rutgers Ohio State game. The officiating changed abruptly and became very one sided and quite outrageously so.

But there are other less overtly corrupt things. Like the the officials that just do not like a coach or a program. Again, it is not realistic to believe such biases do not exist. I find it impossible to believe that there are not at least a few officials that think Fran is a prick and some do their best to frustrate him. I'm shit with names so I cannot remember which Eades but of one those two hate Iowa. He inflicts an obvious double standard on Iowa, every game regardless of opponent. I'll bet Rob Dibler knows about the animosity when he assigns that Eades to Iowa games. Other officials may have other enemies, which can be indulged as long as the Big Six aren't getting burned.

Finally, I could give many examples from the past but I'll start noting the calls at the time and we can look at contemporary events simultaneously.

i just watched minny and bucky and bucky got no calls and their asses handed to them . i am going to change my other post and go back to my original statement you are a conspiracy lunatic . again you keep voicing opinions and come forward with no hard evidence . the football example i dont remember and you have not provided any links to research it .

 

[denmar81]

lol . some of that is true some is not . i was an offficial for 20 some years and yes i do have some friends that are officials . until you are willing to expect perfection out of the players dont expect perfection out of the refs .

That last part is just stupid. Anyway, no one expects perfection, that never happens. What is expected is consistency. When that happens then you’re as close as you’re ever going to get to perfection.

 

[papabeef]

That last part is just stupid. Anyway, no one expects perfection, that never happens. What is expected is consistency. When that happens then you’re as close as you’re ever going to get to perfection.

i will re-phrase my post . when you get consistent play out of the players you will get consistent calls out of the officials , better ? lol

 

[texas twister]

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

i just watched minny and bucky and bucky got no calls and their asses handed to them . i am going to change my and go back to my original statement you are a conspiracy lunatic . again you keep voicing opinions and come forward with no hard evidence . the football example i dont remember and you have not provided any links to research it .

If you do not know the football play of which I spoke you then I will need to revisit my opinion of your subject matter ignorance. Every single Iowa football fan that watched the 2019 game knows the play I'm referencing. I'm guessing 99% will say its a terrible call and 85% would attribute that call to dishonesty. Somebody had a link to just the play on the football board, maybe they'll see this and repost it here. Too tired to pick through the YouTube highlights to look for the play.

Most misdeeds are proved by a chain of circumstantial evidence. You will be waiting until Kingdom Come for bad guys to admit bad deeds.

As a former official, HS I assume, you have your own ax to grind. You are a hopelessly biased judge on the issue because you have a stake in the presumption of honesty and regular order amongst officials.

 

[papabeef]

If you do not know the football play of which I spoke you then I will need to revisit my opinion of your subject matter ignorance. Every single Iowa football fan that watched the 2019 game knows the play I'm referencing. I'm guessing 99% will say its a terrible call and 85% would attribute that call to dishonesty. Somebody had a link to just the play on the football board, maybe they'll see this and repost it here. Too tired to pick through the YouTube highlights to look for the play.

Most misdeeds are proved by a chain of circumstantial evidence. You will be waiting until Kingdom Come for bad guys to admit bad deeds.

As a former official, HS I assume, you have your own ax to grind. You are a hopelessly biased judge on the issue because you have a stake in the presumption of honesty and regular order amongst officials.

you telling me i have an ax to grind , classic . lol . sleep well conspiracy nut . lol

 

[papabeef]

If you do not know the football play of which I spoke you then I will need to revisit my opinion of your subject matter ignorance. Every single Iowa football fan that watched the 2019 game knows the play I'm referencing. I'm guessing 99% will say its a terrible call and 85% would attribute that call to dishonesty. Somebody had a link to just the play on the football board, maybe they'll see this and repost it here. Too tired to pick through the YouTube highlights to look for the play.

Most misdeeds are proved by a chain of circumstantial evidence. You will be waiting until Kingdom Come for bad guys to admit bad deeds.

As a former official, HS I assume, you have your own ax to grind. You are a hopelessly biased judge on the issue because you have a stake in the presumption of honesty and regular order amongst officials.

been on youtube for 30 minutes buckwheat , cant find anything , hopefully someone will provide a link . lol . i believe we won the 2019 game didnt we ? 26-19 ? lol

 

[CalmHawk]

Can you officials answer a question for me please. Why are there so many swings in games and runs of fouls? Team A gets 7 fouls to Team B with 1 foul after the first quarter. Why does it end up with Team A at 10 fouls at the end of the half and Team B at say 8? What is up with that type of officiating? That is where players and coaches do not understand the consistency of calling fouls. Especially if both teams are playing say a zone type defense. Do you call more fouls in man to man vs zone?

 

[Ronman]

a player is entitled to their space from the floor to the moon , straight up and down . by straight i mean straight . no offense dude but if you dont know what verticality is how do you know whether or not they suck ?

That's not how Wisconsin plays it and they rarely get called for fouls in those situations.

 

[papabeef]

That's not how Wisconsin plays it and they rarely get called for fouls in those situations.

he asked for a definition and i gave it to him .

 

[papabeef]

Can you officials answer a question for me please. Why are there so many swings in games and runs of fouls? Team A gets 7 fouls to Team B with 1 foul after the first quarter. Why does it end up with Team A at 10 fouls at the end of the half and Team B at say 8? What is up with that type of officiating? That is where players and coaches do not understand the consistency of calling fouls. Especially if both teams are playing say a zone type defense. Do you call more fouls in man to man vs zone?

fouls have to be the same . just ask some of the experts on here . lol

 

[papabeef]

If you do not know the football play of which I spoke you then I will need to revisit my opinion of your subject matter ignorance. Every single Iowa football fan that watched the 2019 game knows the play I'm referencing. I'm guessing 99% will say its a terrible call and 85% would attribute that call to dishonesty. Somebody had a link to just the play on the football board, maybe they'll see this and repost it here. Too tired to pick through the YouTube highlights to look for the play.

Most misdeeds are proved by a chain of circumstantial evidence. You will be waiting until Kingdom Come for bad guys to admit bad deeds.

As a former official, HS I assume, you have your own ax to grind. You are a hopelessly biased judge on the issue because you have a stake in the presumption of honesty and regular order amongst officials.

nah . i just dont believe everything in life is one big conspiracy plot .

 

[papabeef]

And you just admitted that there is refs that are biased and coaches benefit from relationships with refs. Listen I am sure you are a good ref, but there are refs out there that aren't good

that post is true and no i was joking . thats what lol means .

 

[Ronman]

i will re-phrase my post . when you get consistent play out of the players you will get consistent calls out of the officials , better ? lol

You really feel these two elements are related?

 

[CalmHawk]

fouls have to be the same . just ask some of the experts on here . lol

Well, if a crew members are calling things differently, that is an issue is what I am saying. No reason at halftime of a game fouls should be so drastically different. Like 15 to 3, but it does happen. Then the second half starts and all of a sudden it is opposite. I think if things would be consistent there would not be issues. It is frustrating for coaches and players to adjust their game due to how a game is called day to day. It should not be much different, but it is. Denying that is ignorant.

 

[papabeef]

Well, if a crew members are calling things differently, that is an issue is what I am saying. No reason at halftime of a game fouls should be so drastically different. Like 15 to 3, but it does happen. Then the second half starts and all of a sudden it is opposite. I think if things would be consistent there would not be issues. It is frustrating for coaches and players to adjust their game due to how a game is called day to day. It should not be much different, but it is. Denying that is ignorant.

thats called life . learn to adjust .

 

[papabeef]

You really feel these two elements are related?

yes

 

[papabeef]

Also do refs not call as many fouls when a team runs zone as a rule? I have heard a ref say they have less fouls because they run zone.....

if you dont understand why there might be less fouls while playing a zone as compared to a man to man then you werent much of a coach .

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

you telling me i have an ax to grind , classic . lol . sleep well conspiracy nut . lol

Sure you do, its like the Blue Wall or the White Wall. Cops and doctors almost never turn on each other, regardless of conduct or even the individual judgments involved.

I'll be back next time I see the boys take the high hard one for your observations.

 

[papabeef]

Uh, the Big Ten and some of its officials are corrupt. The Big Ten ratifies the corruption by watching the same guys do the same things for years with no attempt to discipline or restrain them. It works out because, barring this Covid year, the league makes more money every year.

Apparently Rutgers is willing to back talk a classic Big Ten screwing. More programs need to stand up to the conference leadership in public. Its the only thing that will cause reform.

i asked you once already , when did rutgers take a screwing ?

 

[HawkRugged17]

Let's have some fun!