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Saudi blood money golf field announced

I read this morning that DJ has resigned from the PGA tour. Have to think he (and Na) got legal advice that they should do so to avoid potential suspension/bans & give themselves an easier path back if they decide the Saudi tour isn't all they thought it would be.
 
Playing devil's advocate here.

How many of you would change jobs if you were guaranteed a 20x plus increase in your salary? Would you be a traitor too? Why do you feel the players owe the Tour anything? They are independent contractors that the PGA Tour benefited from as well.

Aside from where the money is coming from, It would be tough to not leave my current employer and turn down that much money especially if it virtually solidified my family’s financial future.
But I also wouldn’t be the least bit surprised when my former employer laughs and turns his back if I found out the grass wasn’t greener on the other side and I asked to come back.
 
I can’t recall a sanctioning body pitching a fit if a racer decided to run open wheel and Baja.

Why is the PGA so insecure?
 
I think the hardline approach by the PGA will backfire eventually. Maybe they should allow 2-3 exemptions per player per year?

Personally, I think something like this is where they ultimately end up, but Saudis are going to have to give some ground also. They are exerting a ton of control over the players who have signed up.

And people are mad because...? Are people that loyal to the PGA? Because SA has a poor human rights record? So its basically the NBA/China of the golf world?

I think the reason this has blown up is the way Phil and I’m forgetting which of the old guard have spoken publicly about the Saudis. Who was it that said the Kashoggi killing was an honest mistake or something like that?

I get it from their perspective (the players), but it also rubs many the wrong way that the Saudis are simply throwing money at players. Financially speaking, it reminds me of the NFL/USFL battle in the ‘80s and the USFL tried to outspend the NFL before ultimately folding.

Again good for him. In his situation I would have never made the jump. If he has any brains he should already be set for life financially. I'll let it go at that.

I’m genuinely curious how many of the players are in rough spots and need the money. Reportedly Phil for example has lost millions gambling the past few years.
 
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Playing devil's advocate here.

How many of you would change jobs if you were guaranteed a 20x plus increase in your salary? Would you be a traitor too? Why do you feel the players owe the Tour anything? They are independent contractors that the PGA Tour benefited from as well.
IMO it is foolish because it is taking a short term payout at the expense of your reputation and long term potential earnings. Phil has trashed his reputation with this move and has seriously hurt his long term earnings potential through endorsements and other golf related business ventures. Guys like Jack and Arnie made $100's of millions dollars far after their playing careers were over. Guys like Greg Norman, I remember that Shark clothing line, but yeah, what does he endorse now? I'm not buying what he's shilling because the guy is a PITA.

Phil was set up next to Tiger same as Arnie was set up next to Jack for this generation of golfers. The guy could have pulled down untold millions in endorsement money for the rest of his life. He had a lifetime Callaway contract (maybe he still does, I'm thinking that is in doubt now). Just a very short sighted move on his part. Then, upon all the reflection and claiming he's grown as a person, he goes ahead and signs up with LIV anyway? That decision reveals who he was all along. The guy had a chance to step back from LIV, and I think if he did he would have been accepted back into the PGA community and us fans would have forgiven him and his reputation could have been repaired. Not now.

DJ still has some golf left in him. Personality wise he's a wet blanket. I guess I understand him just taking the money.

In the end these guys are whores doing business with the Saudis, just haggling over what the price is to buy their loyalties.
 
I read this morning that DJ has resigned from the PGA tour. Have to think he (and Na) got legal advice that they should do so to avoid potential suspension/bans & give themselves an easier path back if they decide the Saudi tour isn't all they thought it would be.
Q school? Mini-tours? Korn Ferry? That would be hilarious. Not as easy as it sounds either. Ricky just missed the cut at his US Open Qualifier.
 
Good for Phil. Who cares? I hope LIV has a great opening weekend and Patrick Reed wins at the same time just to watch a bunch of people collectively shit themselves.
 
I will be interested in seeing if Phil will be invited to Augusta in 2023. It is an "invitational" and NOT an official PGA sanctioned event. I'm sure Phil will be "good to go" with the USGA and Royal and Ancient.......but I seriously doubt if he will play in another PGA Championship or Player's Championship or Ryder Cup and Fed Ex Cup until this is settled (in his favor) or he apologizes.
Interestingly, Phillip did offer up a mea culpa of sorts this morning. For Phillip, that in itself is pretty amazing......
 
I can’t recall a sanctioning body pitching a fit if a racer decided to run open wheel and Baja.

Why is the PGA so insecure?
How has the PGA shown insecurity? It has responded to questions asked.....So far, the Mickelson/Norman tandem has done most of the accusations....
I think what most golfers/fans find aggrevating is that Mickelson and Norman (especially Norman) seem to believe the PGA Tour organization has done nothing positive for them or other professional golfers.
 
Q school? Mini-tours? Korn Ferry? That would be hilarious. Not as easy as it sounds either. Ricky just missed the cut at his US Open Qualifier.
DJ reportedly got $125mil guaranteed. I don't he or his children or grandchildren or great grandchildren are too worried financially if the LIV tour fails.
 
How has the PGA shown insecurity?
PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan warned players against LIV Golf participation, threatening disciplinary action. -SI

I can’t recall anyone running NASCAR ‘threatening disciplinary action’ to someone that wanted to run the Indy 500, and even compete in NASCAR the same day.

So why is the PGA so insecure?
 
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I know someone who won’t be invited back next year.

FUpspiFXEAEq3q-
 
PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan warned players against LIV Golf participation, threatening disciplinary action. -SI

The can’t recall anyone running NASCAR ‘threatening disciplinary action’ to someone that wanted to run the Indy 500, and even compete in NASCAR the same day.

So why is the PGA so insecure?
F1
PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan warned players against LIV Golf participation, threatening disciplinary action. -SI

I can’t recall anyone running NASCAR ‘threatening disciplinary action’ to someone that wanted to run the Indy 500, and even compete in NASCAR the same day.

So why is the PGA so insecure?
F1 basically forced Fernando Alonso out of open wheel racing for two years when he chose an Indy Car event over the Grand Prix of Monaco.
 
PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan warned players against LIV Golf participation, threatening disciplinary action. -SI

I can’t recall anyone running NASCAR ‘threatening disciplinary action’ to someone that wanted to run the Indy 500, and even compete in NASCAR the same day.

So why is the PGA so insecure?
Stupid comparison. If someone wanted to start a stock car rival to NASCAR you would see a quite different reaction.
 
F1

F1 basically forced Fernando Alonso out of open wheel racing for two years when he chose an Indy Car event over the Grand Prix of Monaco.
Link?

I just see that he ‘retired’ from a sorry team a full season after he skipped Monaco for the Indy 500.
Was anything publicly said, as with the PGA, or is this a rumor mill thing like Jordan not playing in the NBA because of gambling?

Stupid comparison. If someone wanted to start a stock car rival to NASCAR you would see a quite different reaction.
I recall drivers competing in ARCA and NASCAR with no complaints. I know NASCAR bought ARCA a few years ago, but I’m think of guys like Kenny Schrader and others that ‘race any chance they got’ competing in that series from time to time.
 
It's really probably closer in comparison to Indy and Kart, back when they both existed. If I remember right, KART racers weren't allowed to participate in INDY races (like the Inny Fi Hunnerd) and it caused a good bit of angst, as a LOT of the bigger name drivers were in the KART series.
 
PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan warned players against LIV Golf participation, threatening disciplinary action. -SI

I can’t recall anyone running NASCAR ‘threatening disciplinary action’ to someone that wanted to run the Indy 500, and even compete in NASCAR the same day.

So why is the PGA so insecure?
Jay Monahan has a job to protect the PGA Tour brand. Reminding its members of their obligation is hardly being insecure.
Monahan has a lot of "juice" in professional golf as he, and almost he alone, was responsible in leading professional golf thru Covid and getting the game back on track, plus he heads the most recognizable professional sports brand in the world. He and the PGA ain't "insecure"......just covering their asses as any smart business will do.
 
I recall drivers competing in ARCA and NASCAR with no complaints. I know NASCAR bought ARCA a few years ago, but I’m think of guys like Kenny Schrader and others that ‘race any chance they got’ competing in that series from time to time.
Not remotely the same. That's like comparing the Korn Ferry series to the PGA Tour. One is a minor league training ground. Not close to a competing series in either case.
 
I think the reason this has blown up is the way Phil and I’m forgetting which of the old guard have spoken publicly about the Saudis. Who was it that said the Kashoggi killing was an honest mistake or something like that?
Think that was Greg Norman who also threw some shade on Nicklaus recently.

Nicklaus had said he chose not to accept an offer more than $100 million to help administrate LIV Golf.

“I turned it down," Nicklaus said. "Once verbally, once in writing. I said, ‘Guys, I have to stay with the PGA Tour. I helped start the PGA Tour.’ ”

Norman said Nicklaus was supportive of LIV.

“Nicklaus attended a LIV presentation and later wrote in an email that the new tour had his blessing,” Norman said. “Quote-unquote, he said: ‘This is good for our game. If it’s good for the game of golf, it’s good by me.' So, you want the facts? You’ve got the facts. Know what you said before you open your mouth.”

Norman added: "“One hundred percent truth? Jack’s a hypocrite.”

In a breach-of-contract lawsuit, Nicklaus Companies, LLC, claims that it convinced Nicklaus to abandon the idea of working with the Saudis.

Norman, who at one time was close with Nicklaus, also addressed LIV Golf issues unrelated to Nicklaus, including the tour offering Tiger Woods a deal that was "mind-blowingly enormous; we're talking about high nine digits." Woods declined the offer.

Norman also criticized Rory McIlroy, suggesting he and other players have been “brainwashed” against LIV Golf. McIlroy has been vocal in speaking out in favor of the PGA Tour.


 
Jay Monahan has a job to protect the PGA Tour brand. Reminding its members of their obligation is hardly being insecure.
Monahan has a lot of "juice" in professional golf as he, and almost he alone, was responsible in leading professional golf thru Covid and getting the game back on track, plus he heads the most recognizable professional sports brand in the world. He and the PGA ain't "insecure"......just covering their asses as any smart business will do.
I can understand how vindictive people don’t see vindictiveness as insecure. They probably think it shows how tough they are.
 
I can understand how vindictive people don’t see vindictiveness as insecure. They probably think it shows how tough they are.

I mean, it’s quite clear the PGA has attempted to kill the LIV before it got out of the hospital, but the Saudis have deeper pockets than they do. The question to me is whether enough of the elite golfers will want to associate themselves with the Saudis, if the money is worth the damage to their rep, vs what they’d make on the Tour plus sponsorships.
 
Not if the PGA bans him…and “breach of contract” might be cause…again, let’s see where the lawyers, injunctions and law suits lead us. This could be years before settlement. But DJ would have a hard time proving the PGA prevented him from making a living if they ban him for life…as he makes a living playing golf in another organization.
PGA doesn’t run the PGA championship. Bet he plays. And now that players see Majors are available I bet you see more opt into where the big $$$ is. Don’t blame them at all. It’s a business decision. Our government does business with them and other shady characters. PGA has a history of exclusion. I don’t feel one bit sorry for them. If anything maybe the competition will improve the game, tournaments, etc.

I’ll close with I don’t approve of SA and the way the have operated and treated people, but I am not going to get mad about players making money playing a sport either.
 
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What’s Greg Norman’s deal? Is he just a greedy, opportunistic **** or does he have some historical beef with the PGA Tour?
 
What’s Greg Norman’s deal? Is he just a greedy, opportunistic **** or does he have some historical beef with the PGA Tour?
Why does he have to have an issue with PGA? Sounds to me like he was approached about helping get the league going and accepted thinking it was a chance to create other options and events for professionals. Opportunity for players to make a lot of money. They tried to work around many PGA events, but also had some head to head weekends. I am guessing here… but if PGA had allowed players an exception or two each year to play in those head to head weeks this probably goes away. And, without coverage this would probably go away after 2-3 seasons. Now I bet SA loves the attention and drama and will be more willing to spend more and for much longer to make a go of this. I think you’ll see more players join them with majors now an option.

I’m curious to see the PGAs move. Do they have the ability to increase prize money, make any innovative changes to their events or coverage? Gonna be an interesting couple of years to see what ends up happening:
 
Two Trump courses in the eight event schedule. Seems on the up and up.
Probably part of the deal Jared negotiated. We will turn a blind eye to MBS ordering the hit on Khashoggi, and in return you have to throw a lifeline to Donald's failing properties. Doral is hemorrhaging money, and Trump must have gotten down on his knees and begged for them to hold an event there. I use the word event because at this point these don't seem like actual competitive events.
 
Probably part of the deal Jared negotiated. We will turn a blind eye to MBS ordering the hit on Khashoggi, and in return you have to throw a lifeline to Donald's failing properties. Doral is hemorrhaging money, and Trump must have gotten down on his knees and begged for them to hold an event there. I use the word event because at this point these don't seem like actual competitive events.
Guarantee it’s no innocent coincidence.
 
I guess I really don‘t get the outrage, Golfers doing business with the Saudis, So does the US Government, General Motors, Ford, Cocoa Cola, Pepsi, AT&T, Motorola, etc, etc. Why are professional golfers the line in the sand for so many? It has been no secret who the Saudis are and what they have done and the US and countless corporations have turned a blind eye for years because of money.
 
Used to be a big Lefty fan….he is now a non person to me. I actually never liked Tiger, but he’s earning my respect
 
These guys are just cashing checks. None of them should ever talk about how they love competing against the best.
Agreed. Heaven forbid anyone ever take a different job for more money and not send a note on LinkedIn about how much they enjoyed their time with company x and look forward to company y and thank folks at both companies and others that have influenced them. World would be full of sellouts, especially if we all really knew how many companies had secrets... some at just bigger than others. Still think anyone judging these players is a total hypocrite.

Bring on the hypocrites... but but but
 
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I can understand how vindictive people don’t see vindictiveness as insecure. They probably think it shows how tough they are.

I don't see the PGA position as being vindictive, though I guess I could see it being somewhat insecure. I don't blame them for being concerned. There is most certainly potential for the Saudi money to essentially turn the PGA tour into a farm system for the LIV, where young players start on the PGA & jump to the LIV as soon as they make enough of a name to get a big money offer.
 
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