Tea leaves say Teske to PSU
- Thread starter edquinn06
- Start date
Since HawkMD was first with the theory I'll wait for him to reply.
However, based on what you wrote, you believe it's a lie. When you state something as fact that you don't know is a fact...well, that's lying. Even if it turns out to be true later, at the time it was lying.
As for a few plausible explanations...perhaps he didn't really like Iowa? Perhaps he really liked the coaching staff changes at Iowa State? Maybe he didn't want to join a room with Spencer Lee already on board?
This is easy, and I did that without any libelous remarks.
Gable had more money and resources that anyone else of his time. The reason he had the money and resources was because the people with money believed in him. The reason they believed in him was because he was amazing and the things he did were awe inspiring. It was a cycle that fed upon itself and helped it grow.
I am not going to say Cael is at the level of a coach as Gable (it is too early to make such a comparison), but people with money believe in him. There is connection between having skills, being special, and having people believe in you. I remember the Gable teams and how dominant and amazing they were. I also can see that Cael's teams have some characteristics that are pretty impressive also.
Gable may well be the Michael Jordan of wrestling. Everyone wants to compare the newest superstar to him and claim the new guy is better. Those that watched what Gable's teams and kids did, (just like those who watched Michael Jordan play) will probably never agree. That does not mean Lebron James or Koby Bryant weren't (aren't) great players. We just have our own opinion. No need to insult the Lebrons and Kobys, but don't expect us to agree with your opinion either.
Right now, someone believes in Dresser at ISU. Lets see if he can pull off what Gable and Sanderson have done.
I am not going to say Cael is at the level of a coach as Gable (it is too early to make such a comparison), but people with money believe in him. There is connection between having skills, being special, and having people believe in you. I remember the Gable teams and how dominant and amazing they were. I also can see that Cael's teams have some characteristics that are pretty impressive also.
Gable may well be the Michael Jordan of wrestling. Everyone wants to compare the newest superstar to him and claim the new guy is better. Those that watched what Gable's teams and kids did, (just like those who watched Michael Jordan play) will probably never agree. That does not mean Lebron James or Koby Bryant weren't (aren't) great players. We just have our own opinion. No need to insult the Lebrons and Kobys, but don't expect us to agree with your opinion either.
Right now, someone believes in Dresser at ISU. Lets see if he can pull off what Gable and Sanderson have done.
Another Penn State fan with no inside knowledge of the Nolf situation. This type of thing is common in recruiting, and doesn't diminish anything Nolf or PSU has done.
He said on something like his 150th post on an Iowa wrestling board...
Since HawkMD was first with the theory I'll wait for him to reply.
However, based on what you wrote, you believe it's a lie. When you state something as fact that you don't know is a fact...well, that's lying. Even if it turns out to be true later, at the time it was lying.
As for a few plausible explanations...perhaps he didn't really like Iowa? Perhaps he really liked the coaching staff changes at Iowa State? Maybe he didn't want to join a room with Spencer Lee already on board?
This is easy, and I did that without any libelous remarks.
When a poster posts something on a message board & they are ignored, does anyone read it?
Depends, is it next to the bear sh*tting in the woods or the tree falling in the woods and wondering if it makes a noise?
Umm... You mean Michael Jordan may well have been the Dan Gable of Basketball.
Most, if not all, head coaches in wrestling have strong-armed a recruit at some point. You can have an opinion, one way or another, but these guys are also hedging their livelihood on high school kids' decisions.
Tom Ryan is no saint.
Tom Ryan is no saint.
Obviously there are many coaches who bend if not break the rules. Coaches who will do ANYTHING to win; whether for more money, personal ego, or just having to be better than everyone else. Personally I really don’t care as much about a coache’s “livelihood” as I do that kids coming out of HS are treated fairly and given every opportunity to look, compare, and make the very best decision for their future. We are talking about “supposedly” mature men as opposed to 17-18 year old HS students. Many have parental support but still are influenced by the coaches they come in cantact with and many just do not have that family support at all.
I'm not saying any of it is right. I'm just saying that crucifying one coach for it (under nothing more than suspicion) is comical, at best.
Not crucifying anyone. Just saying that threatening to take away a scholarship offer and not allowing an athlete to take his allowed 5 authorized visits so he can make the best decsion possible is WRONG and is taking advantage of a young athlete for no one’s but that coache’s benefit. Not saying this without proof as have heard it directly...not rumor, innuendo,or suspicion. Do not really care who the coach is, it’s wrong!
I mean if we’re talking as a competitor i’d probably call Gable the Bill Russell or maybe Magic Johnson of wrestling. Smith seems more like MJ to me with his accomplishments on the senior level
All these things u guys are bringing up about Carl are Busch league but he is not the only one. Ryan is just as a bad. Neither one are breaking any "rules". Is it a bit unethical, probably and hopefully it comes back to bite them in the butt oh wait it all ready did a little bit thanks Bubba J!!
For 2nd best? True. Iowa is a clear cut #1. Penn State needs to worry about holding that #2 spot.
I agree.
If we are talking coaching abilities and what he did for his wrestlers I'd say Larry Bird would be spot on. No one got more out of what God gave them than Bird. Not much athletic ability but hard work and just finding ways to compensate to get the job done. I think Gable did that for his wrestlers. I think he got the most out of his wrestlers that other coaches wouldn't have been able to do.
Here's probably the number reason Brody shouldn't go to PSU.
If you’re insinuating McHenry would end up at PSU I gotta tell you while it’s possible, I believe McHenry is Cornell’s to lose as long as Cooperman is there
Definitely can agree from the competitor coach comparison. If it’s coach to coach I’d compare him to Phil Jackson but I already joke with the PSU guys about that in regards to Cael
Yep that's where I'm going. If you're Brody you're basically trusting Cael won't go after next years number one recruit:/
If Teske can't beat these guys then why do we want him? Spending significant amounts of money on lesser guys to fill holes is what got us in this position to begin with. I'd rather save the scholarship money if that's the case. If our coaches think that he can compete with those guys then go all in.
Last edited:
Why in the heck are we comparing the sport of Wrestling to a game like basketball....
After watching that I think I would take McHenry first, RBY second, GT third. Now that wasn't much to make a real evaluation on but McHenry has speed, power, and athleticism.
Of course. I might even get them to take less so I can recruit McHenry. Don't worry it will all work out.
Usually guys that dump girls to date the next hottest girl that comes along end up old & alone.
yeah but then they sometimes win a bunch of national championships
Yea...it wasn't enough to make an evaluation on any of the three since it was a light sweat drilling.
Please, explain to me how Gable had more money and resources than other programs when he started at Iowa.
I also love how you throw some backhanded compliments out while the true purpose is minimizing Gable's accomplishments.
Iowa under Gable and Penn State under Cael are light years away from each other. Iowa developed a bunch of unheralded recruits into AA's their Junior and Senior season, with a couple of stud recruits mixed in. Cael is getting a stud recruits who AA and win National Championships right out of the gate as Freshmen at basically every weight. Not much development needed. Look at last years lineup: Freshmen top 5 at their weight: 125, 149, 157, 165, 174, 184, 285. And 141 was top 5 as a Sophomore and a Top Recruit in his class, and 133 was a top recruit, but has not delivered on his potential (injured his first year in the PSU lineup).
That is not the same coaching job. Not even close. Sorry, you are either horrible uninformed or just a troll.
In truth, the 1980's and the 2010's are light years away from each other with regard to high school wrestling skill sets, training videos and camps, and ranking services. As you say, Gable took mid level guys and made them great, but part of me wonders whether Gable just wasn't exceptional at divining the real diamonds from the fake ones in an era with fewer tools to figure out who was going to rise to the top. A great coach, no doubt about it. Nowadays, many coaches know the studs well in advance of recruitment and even see them on a regular basis at camps and tournaments. All they have to do now is figure out which ones are coachable and hungry enough to do what it takes to win it all.
Last edited:
He may not have had more money when he started, because I do not know what was there when he started. However, their wrestling room was the envy of the country when it was first built and he also was able to start the HWC and really get it going. That takes money. No other team had those resources. Like I said, the reason he got the money was because people believed in him. They believed in him because he was amazing and was doing amazing things. I don't see that as trolling or diminishing his results.
It may well be that his biggest skill was motivating people to reach their potential and Cael's biggest skill is recruiting. But I think in order to have success like he and Cael had, both of them have to be impressive in their own way. Gabel is still considered the greatest wrestling coach of all time, but that does not mean the Cael isn't a great coach or soon to be on the great coach list.
I am not trying to diminish anything Gable accomplished. To this day, I never count the Hawks out from an NCAA title until they are mathematically eliminated. I remember the way the Hawks of the 80s and 90s would do the seemingly impossible year after year.
I have only respect and awe for Gable. I think either I did not make that clear or you are a bit sensitive. (and maybe I am misinformed
)I think Gable recognized the traits in a person that he could work with and develop. Also, he and his style were revolutionary. He was ahead of the curve. Now everyone is doing the things he did and his training style is a given. ( not necessarily the level, but the style). Remember also, that the great ones wanted to be near Gable and learn from him. He was a magnet to kids who wanted to be the best. He had the "it" factor. The great ones usually do.
Gable certainly went after the best guys out there, but almost always only if they fit the template for an Iowa guy. The grinder that just worked and worked, who practiced and competed with a chip on their shoulder... I believe TNT also follow the same criteria to a point, but times have changed and they are willing to get the best available even if they aren't an immediate "Iowa guy." I do think Teske fits that description (especially with how he wrestles with an aggressive, heavy handed, in your face style). If Teske crossed Iowa off his potential schools list, that is fine. No need to waste TNT's time, nor his own time making a visit for the sake of making a visit. As mentioned, it allows the coaches to contact kids that are in the mix and up the scholarship offer, or to spread some more out to others currently on the team. If Teske goes to PSU, I wouldn't count him out. Once on campus, it does't matter what wrestlers are already there. He is capable of knocking a RBY or GT, up a weight or out of the line up. Could he beat them today? Probably not, but where you end up is more about the work ethic and attitude of the kid. If those others work hard, but not quite hard enough, who knows.... Tom Ryan came to Iowa as an NCAA Qual. transfer-walk on. Streicher was a returning All American (I think 6th his sop. year). Ryan made the line up and got a 2nd and a 3rd at the NCAAs.. Why? Because Ryan never lost focus on why he came to Iowa in the first place and just outworked the other guys, made those huge improvements, etc. I imagine out of the top schools, some big time recruits will fizzle out, and some other less heralded recruits end up having very good college careers, like the Daniel Dennis' of the world.
He may not have had more money when he started, because I do not know what was there when he started. However, their wrestling room was the envy of the country when it was first built and he also was able to start the HWC and really get it going. That takes money. No other team had those resources. Like I said, the reason he got the money was because people believed in him. They believed in him because he was amazing and was doing amazing things. I don't see that as trolling or diminishing his results.
It may well be that his biggest skill was motivating people to reach their potential and Cael's biggest skill is recruiting. But I think in order to have success like he and Cael had, both of them have to be impressive in their own way. Gabel is still considered the greatest wrestling coach of all time, but that does not mean the Cael isn't a great coach or soon to be on the great coach list.
I am not trying to diminish anything Gable accomplished. To this day, I never count the Hawks out from an NCAA title until they are mathematically eliminated. I remember the way the Hawks of the 80s and 90s would do the seemingly impossible year after year.
I have only respect and awe for Gable. I think either I did not make that clear or you are a bit sensitive. (and maybe I am misinformed
So wait, you are saying "No other team had those resources." Then proceed to list the two resources as a wrestling practice room and an offseason/freestyle wrestling club. Seriously?
Gable would not recruit over his guys like Cael does. He was very loyal. You should read Alan Fried's story about his recruitment. He was the top recruit in the country. He had beat both Brands brothers soundly. The Brands brothers were a year older and already committed to Iowa. Gable told Alan Fried, I think you are great, but I have the Brands brothers here and even though you are a generational talent, we are going to have to ask you to find a different program. Fried had just taken down the Olympic Gold Medalist (John Smith) in the OTT and did the unthinkable winning 4 junior freestyle championships, people were calling him the greatest high school wrestler ever and he wanted to be a Hawkeye.....badly. He did not have grade or motivation issues, in fact Gable wanted Fried just as badly as Fried wanted to go to Iowa. However, Gable told him, he had just recruited the Brands brothers the year prior and it would not be fair to them to bring Alan in and take a spot in the lineup, because he was clearly the superior wrestler.
Now ask yourself, would Cael do that? Turn away the #1 recruit in the country, because he had recruited a 2nd or 3rd tier recruit at the same weight the year before (estimate here, as I don't know exactly where Tom and Terry were ranked coming out of high school, I know it wasn't top 5 in their class, but I know they were thought highly off). Lets look at some recent history...
Now, Gable developed Tom and Terry obviously and when Tom met up with Fried later in their career (after the Oklahoma State NCAA suspension, which some argue cost Fried another NCAA Championship), Brands had caught up and he beat Fried in a huge upset.
Here is the interview: http://www.ohiowrestlingsite.com/329/alan-frieds-interview-with-ohio-wrestling-site/
It is well worth the read for Iowa and Oklahoma State fans. Great insight into the recruitment process of Gable and the NCAA issues at OSU that cost Fried and his team mates a year of eligibility. As well as the rivalry with Iowa and the pettiness of Tom Brands. Alan talks about training in Iowa with Lincoln McIlravy after his college career was over, but not being allowed into the Iowa wrestling room because Tom Brands, didn't want him there and even after he officially moved there to train, Tom would still refuse to train with him along with Terry and Steiner. A lot of stuff I didn't know, like that Fried beat Brands in two of his three NCAA Championship seasons (soundly, pinning him both years, in under a minute once and tech falling him earlier), but Fried was redshirting and then ineligible because of Oklahoma State's NCAA penalties.Tom Brands kept getting better though and his relentless work ethic and Gable's scouting eventually turned those losses into close wins, then those close wins into dominating wins, which Fried readily admits and is refreshing to hear rather than the excuses we are used to today. It is too bad Fried's back could never be fixed, I would have loved to have seen him in the Olympics.
Here is the intro to the three part series:
"Ohio has produced as many talented wrestling stars as any state in the country. However, none has shined quite so brilliantly as Alan Fried of Lakewood St. Edward. The first wrestler to win four Junior National Freestyle titles, many feel that he was the greatest high school wrestler to ever take the mat. In college, Fried went on to become an NCAA Champion, never placing lower than 2nd, and never seriously pushed in any of his NCAA wins. Fried compiled a 129-6 collegiate career record, with five of those losses to Olympic Gold Medalist/3x NCAA Champion Tom Brands."
Last edited:
Are we arguing and if so, can you please tell me what we are arguing about? I feel like I am talking about one thing and you are talking about something else. I am going to try and be clear this time.
I think Gable was a great if not the greatest wrestling coach ever. I also think Cael is a good coach and may some day be considered great. I am not trying to say he is better than Gable or even compare the two. I am saying that if you have the success he is having, you have to have some serious skills. People without skills do not get the chances or the people to invest in him like he is getting. i.e. the big donors for the NLWC, big salary, big salaries for his assistants.
We can praise Gable and Sanderson without diminishing the other person or their accomplishments - or at least I feel that I can.
What some people choose to ignore is the fact that all this funding came after Cael starting winning championships, not before. An inconvenient truth I guess.
It took a huge chunk of change to get Cael to PSU so I’m not buying that. (I also don’t pretend to know what is happening at PSU with wrestler compensation.)
I think you are equating Gable and Cael. That's fine, but others are pointing out how the two differ significantly. The Alan Fried non-recruitment is a great example of their respective values/ethics. Personally, I would have been very impressed if Cael had passed on Mark Hall and then coached up one of his wrestlers to beat him. Unfortunately, were more likely to see the sun rising in the west than such a coaching feat from Carl.
