The Democrats voting “uncommitted” in Michigan . . .

[torbee]

I have no problem with it. They're making a protest that has done what it was designed to do.
They won't vote for Trump in the end.

Not voting for Biden in Michigan is a de facto vote for Trump. That is why they are idiots. The guy I quoted literally said he’d “sit out” the election.

If Trump does win, I hope they are pleased when Netanyahu razes Gaza and institutes indefinite martial law there while killing thousands more with US supplied weapons.

But hey, point made about bad Biden! 🙄

 

[BelemNole]

Not voting for Biden in Michigan is a de facto vote for Trump. That is why they are idiots. The guy I quoted literally said he’d “sit out” the election.

If Trump does win, I hope they are pleased when Netanyahu razes Gaza and institutes indefinite martial law there while killing thousands more with US supplied weapons.

But hey, point made about bad Biden! 🙄

If they don't vote for Biden in November they're stupid.
But I have problem with them not voting for him in the primary.

 

[torbee]

Arab Americans' goal is pretty clear, which is to make sure Biden loses in November.

From CNBC:

For Arab Americans organizing across the country, the message is clear: No cease-fire, no vote.

Khalid Turaani, co-organizer of the Abandon Biden campaign, handed out pamphlets outside the Islamic Center of Detroit telling people to vote “uncommitted” on their ballots, and told the BBC in an interview published Tuesday that his group had made more than 30,000 calls with the same message.

“We’re doing all that we can to ensure that Biden is a one-term president,” Turaani said, according to the U.K. broadcaster. “In November, we will remember. When you stand against the will of the people, you’re going to lose.”

Biden faces anger from key Arab American voters in Michigan primary over Israel support in Gaza war

As voters head to the polls for Michigan's Democratic primary on Tuesday, there is a local campaign urging Democrats to choose "uncommitted" on the ballot as a form of protest vote.

www.cnbc.com

Exactly. Morons.

 

[Franisdaman]

That's insane, it seems extremely counterproductive to their actual goals.

Boy, there sure is a heaping helping of short-sighted stupidity on both sides of the political equation in this country.

I agree.

I have talked to Arab Americans at my gym. I just listen, and they are pissed. The word "genocide" is used often. They ask me what I think and I basically say it's awful what Hamas did on Oct 7 and it's awful what is happening now in Gaza. War is awful, and obviously Israel has much more fire power. It's a hard topic, with a lot of passionate viewpoints.

 

[WDSMHAWK]

If they don't vote for Biden in November they're stupid.
But I have problem with them not voting for him in the primary.

Exactly what I think. Not voting for Biden in the Primary or threatening to not vote in the General as a way to try and change the U.S's stance when it comes to this conflict is completely reasonable.

Not voting or voting 3rd party in November is inexcusable.

 

[Moral]

If Trump wins Michigan and the presidency, these people are going to be very, very sorry. And they will deserve it.

Could you imagine their faces when they find out where Republicans on the Israel thing. I hope they know the difference but I guess you never know.

 

[Franisdaman]

Exactly. Morons.

another thing talking to Arab Americans: they don't like abortion & they don't like people changing their sex

not sure what would happen to a person in Somalia, for example, if a woman wanted an abortion or if a man started dressing like a female (or vice versa)

 

[gohawks50]

Roy Blunt, Susan Collins, Mike Lee, Jerry Moran, Lisa Murkowski.... I can still keep going.

Blunt is no longer in congress. Collins is the queen of strongly worded letters, but no real action. Murkowski has been censured by the Republican party for her disagreements with Trump as well as Trump endorsing her opponent.

 

[MepoDawg#]

Not surprised you miss the point.

In this case the alternative to the person they are protesting is far more radically anti-Palestine than the person they are protesting.

I understand that. However, my point is maybe some are starting to realize there needs to be better options on both sides. And if they have to either not vote or vote for a different candidate to get their point across then that’s their choice and they have to live with it, but their point will be made.

 

[Scruddy]

Blunt is no longer in congress. Collins is the queen of strongly worded letters, but no real action. Murkowski has been censured by the Republican party for her disagreements with Trump as well as Trump endorsing her opponent.

Always an excuse lol I can still keep going but it seems there's no point tbh I'm assuming you ignored the other two names on purpose.

 

[globalhawk]

Yes, its silly to think a majority of American politicians and voters for that matter can think for themselves and do what’s best for our country.

It actually is silly.

 

[Franisdaman]

another thing talking to Arab Americans: they don't like abortion & they don't like people changing their sex

not sure what would happen to a person in Somalia, for example, if a woman wanted an abortion or if a man started dressing like a female (or vice versa)

I left out that they don't like homosexuality.

Republicans have tried to make new alliances with culturally conservative Muslim voters. In the 2022 campaign, Michigan's GOP nominee for governor, Tudor Dixon, embraced a push by some Muslim officials in Dearborn and other towns to remove LGBTQ-themed books from public libraries.

'I will never vote Biden': Some Muslim Americans in a key swing state feel betrayed by the president

Muslim and Arab Americans say their support was critical to Biden’s winning Michigan in 2020. Some warn they won’t back him again over his blanket support for Israel.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[DooBi]

There will be a ceasefire at some point before November and Biden will take credit for it.

 

[Jan Itor]

I’m so glad the lunatics are the small minority of the party I generally prefer and not the mass majority as in the GOP!

And yet Biden tries to appease them.

 

[Franisdaman]

Could you imagine their faces when they find out where Republicans on the Israel thing. I hope they know the difference but I guess you never know.

They feel betrayed by the Democratic Party.


NBC News article from Oct 21:

Osama Siblani, the publisher of The Arab American News, which is based in Dearborn, said at a protest there this week supporting Palestinians: “Let it be known that come [next] November, we will remember, Mr. President.

Siblani is a registered independent who supported Biden, he said, despite formerly being active in Republican politics and launching George W. Bush’s presidential campaign in Dearborn.

He said he grew increasingly uncomfortable with the GOP and critical of Trump and "his hate mongering." Last year, he defended Michigan’s openly gay Democratic attorney general from “sick, crazy and homophobic people.”

Asked in an interview what Biden’s team could do to win back his vote, Siblani said it was too late.

“I will never vote Biden again, if he stands on his head,” he said. “We will not meet with anyone who represents the Biden or Kamala Harris campaign because they lied to us. They lied to us. When they came in 2020, they said, ‘You will have a seat at the table.’”

'I will never vote Biden': Some Muslim Americans in a key swing state feel betrayed by the president

Muslim and Arab Americans say their support was critical to Biden’s winning Michigan in 2020. Some warn they won’t back him again over his blanket support for Israel.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[globalhawk]

And yet Biden tries to appease them.

Can you explain how Biden tries to appease the Squad?

 

[fsu1jreed]

I don't agree with her vote, but at least Democrats in congress are able to voice their opposition to Biden's policies without fear of retribution. I don't see many Republicans in congress willing to express any kind of opposition to Trump.

Because they are nearly all pussies

 

[gohawks50]

Always an excuse lol I can still keep going but it seems there's no point tbh I'm assuming you ignored the other two names on purpose.

Not an excuse, my statement was Congressional Democrats could disagree with Biden without fear of retribution. Trump and/or the Republican party has punished almost every congressperson that dared to disagree with their leader. Many have been censured or had their primary opponent endorsed by Trump or both.

republicans censured for disagreeing with Trump - Google Search

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

They are idiots because if they choose by their inaction to help the opposition candidate to win than the thing they are most upset at Biden for will get far worse, not better.

If he's worried about the treatment of Palestinians he should be concerned more about how Trump will encourage Israel to treat them.

Biden and the Dems are the only ones he has even the slightest chance to influence. So he's trying. I applaud that.

If he votes "uncommitted" to show Biden how important that is but then immediately turns around and says "but don't worry, I'll vote for you anyway" THEN he'd an idiot.

As @goldmom suggests, most "uncommitted" voters will show up and vote D in November. Because, as several have pointed out, what other choice do they have.

BUT . . . some may just give up and stay home. And others may feel that both parties are so unacceptable that they might as well throw their support to a third party that better reflects the kind of country they want to live in.

It's easy to criticize folks like this, but they aren't wrong to be upset with the mainstream Dems. The question for Dems is are you going to do the same stupid shit you did in 2016, and bash the people who want a better world.

Or maybe, just maybe, you could try to appeal to these disaffected folks.

Nah.

@torbee is a smart guy who is reasonable on most issues, imo - but even he launches immediately into the bashing and name calling. I fully expect to see the same from mainstream Dems and even liberals at all levels.

I wonder what we should call these unhappy voters. Bernie Bros doesn't fit. Talib Tossers?

Oh, I know: "anti-Semites." That always works.

Or maybe "Putin Pawns."

 

[Scruddy]

Not an excuse, my statement was Congressional Democrats could disagree with Biden without fear of retribution. Trump and/or the Republican party has punished almost every congressperson that dared to disagree with their leader. Many have been censured or had their primary opponent endorsed by Trump or both.

republicans censured for disagreeing with Trump - Google Search

Still ignoring the other names to maintain your desired worldview I see lol

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

What worries me, and should worry the Dems, is that they are losing at the margins of several demographics.

Young voters
Black voters
Muslim voters
Hispanic voters
Union members

All of those groups are less enthusiastic this year than in 2020. I doubt Biden's popular vote win is in jeopardy, but his margin in swing states certainly is.

 

[gohawks50]

Still ignoring the other names to maintain your desired worldview I see lol

Some of your names have done basically nothing. Feel free to post the most impressive criticism of Trump from a Republican Congressperson that hasn't been punished by censure or a Trump endorsement of their primary opponent.

 

[jneffer]

Some of your names have done basically nothing. Feel free to post the most impressive criticism of Trump from a Republican Congressperson that hasn't been punished by censure or a Trump endorsement of their primary opponent.

could also offer an explanation of why liz cheney went from winning the gop primary with 73% of the vote in 2020 to losing the gop primary with only 29% of the vote?

what caused her to lose that kind of support in just 2 years...hmmmmmm?

 

[torbee]

Could you imagine their faces when they find out where Republicans on the Israel thing. I hope they know the difference but I guess you never know.

I absolutely believe some are so dug in on this single issue that they absolutely will not vote or will vote third party.

Will it be enough to swing the election to Trump? That’s the great unknown.

Biden only won Michigan by 10k votes in 2020. 75,000 voted “uncommitted” in the primary. If even 1/3 of that cohort sits out or votes third party, Trump might win Michigan and perhaps the presidency.

I think it’s naive to not be concerned.

 

[torbee]

And yet Biden tries to appease them.

No he doesn’t. He’s pissing them off on the border. He’s pissing them off on Israel. The only thing he’s done to appease them is on the student loan issue.

 

[Fijimn]

If they don't vote for Biden in November they're stupid.
But I have problem with them not voting for him in the primary.

Those voters should probably review the 2025 plan being circulated among Trump’s team.

 

[ihhawk]

It’s really amazing how immigration has completely changed that area in a short amount of time. Who would have thought that Michigan would have this large of a Arab voting block

 

[joelbc1]

Christie, Cheney, and Kinzinger are not in congress. Romney is retiring so he doesn't worry about being primaried. I guess McConnell has stood up to Trump occasionally.

Cheney and Kinzinger “Democrats”? LoL
Just because they aren’t bat-shit crazy Trumpers does not mean they aren’t Republicans.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Could you imagine their faces when they find out where Republicans on the Israel thing. I hope they know the difference but I guess you never know.

When only one party is sane, you do your best to steer that party toward honorable actions.

Our nearly unconditional support for the slaughter in Gaza cannot be considered honorable.

Those of us who like Biden, including me, but consider our actions in support of that slaughter to be unacceptable, console ourselves by imagining a material difference between Biden's public support and his implied back channel efforts to rein Netanyahu in.

But how long can you take that pollyanna position without seeing progress?

This is a moral crisis that we are failing. Not the only one but a horrific one.

 

[joelbc1]

I agree.

I have talked to Arab Americans at my gym. I just listen, and they are pissed. The word "genocide" is used often. They ask me what I think and I basically say it's awful what Hamas did on Oct 7 and it's awful what is happening now in Gaza. War is awful, and obviously Israel has much more fire power. It's a hard topic, with a lot of passionate viewpoints.

The American answer to these pissed off Arabs is simple…and American……Wm. T Sherman said , “War is hell.” American citizens needs to understand this….this is why we (their US) carries the BIG stick and they don’t!
Ask these guys what the phuque were they thinking (or their people thinking) when they elected HAMAS to govern them?
Let Biden deal with Netenyahu…..

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Where does RFK, jr. stand on the Gaza war?

The last thing the Biden campaign needs is for Arab-Americans to think Kennedy is a viable alternative.

The problem is that someone like RFK jr. doesn't have to be pro Palestinian. He just has to be strongly against the slaughter. Which is something we all should - but don't - agree on.

 

[dgordo]

I wonder if trump will bring back his Muslim ban?

 

[Fijimn]

I wonder if trump will bring back his Muslim ban?

Day one according to the 2025 Plan.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I wonder if trump will bring back his Muslim ban?

If you're voting for Trump what are you expecting him to deliver?

Muslim ban
The Wall (troops on the border until built)
Round up and deport all illegals
End to birthright citizenship
Pull out of Climate agreements, again
Drill, drill, drill
End to green subsidies and tax credits
More support for private schools, less for public schools
Tax cuts
Withdraw from NATO - let Europe handle it's own problems
Withdraw from the UN - Evict the UN from the US
Step up pressure on Iran
Massive reduction of regulations
Reversal of most or all of Biden's Executive Orders
Resumed and increased tariffs, especially vs China
Eliminate the EPA, the CDC, and several agencies
Reverse rising crime stats; get tough on crime
Prosecute everyone involved in stealing the 2020 election
Restore power to the free market

What else?

 

[torbee]

When only one party is sane, you do your best to steer that party toward honorable actions.

Our nearly unconditional support for the slaughter in Gaza cannot be considered honorable.

Those of us who like Biden, including me, but consider our actions in support of that slaughter to be unacceptable, console ourselves by imagining a material difference between Biden's public support and his implied back channel efforts to rein Netanyahu in.

But how long can you take that pollyanna position without seeing progress?

This is a moral crisis that we are failing. Not the only one but a horrific one.

When only one party is sane, you do your best to steer that party to victory above all.

This does not do that, IMO. Make your protest AFTER you’ve secured 4 more years.

 

[Scruddy]

What worries me, and should worry the Dems, is that they are losing at the margins of several demographics.

Young voters
Black voters
Muslim voters
Hispanic voters
Union members

All of those groups are less enthusiastic this year than in 2020. I doubt Biden's popular vote win is in jeopardy, but his margin in swing states certainly is.

I think you are missing the biggest block of voters available to Kennedy, which is the suburban woman vote. I can tell you from multiple convos that this group will heavily lean into kennedy over either trump or biden. Typical voting history was totally irrelevant to this lean btw.

could also offer an explanation of why liz cheney went from winning the gop primary with 73% of the vote in 2020 to losing the gop primary with only 29% of the vote?

what caused her to lose that kind of support in just 2 years...hmmmmmm?

She's an awful human being and her behavior on the sham j6 committee earned her a historic 50 plus point loss. She is also the offspring of absolute scum so there's that too.

When only one party is sane, you do your best to steer that party toward honorable actions.

Our nearly unconditional support for the slaughter in Gaza cannot be considered honorable.

Those of us who like Biden, including me, but consider our actions in support of that slaughter to be unacceptable, console ourselves by imagining a material difference between Biden's public support and his implied back channel efforts to rein Netanyahu in.

But how long can you take that pollyanna position without seeing progress?

This is a moral crisis that we are failing. Not the only one but a horrific one.

He sides with Israel per his x feed

If you're voting for Trump what are you expecting him to deliver?

Muslim ban
N9
The Wall (troops on the border until built)
Yes
Round up and deport all illegals
Yes
End to birthright citizenship
Yes
Pull out of Climate agreements, again
Drill, drill, drill
Yes
End to green subsidies and tax credits
Probably not but I'd prefer ending ALL government incentives to both traditional energy as well as "new energy" companies. Let the tech speak for itself.
More support for private schools, less for public schools
Abort the department of education. Immediately.
Tax cuts
50/50
Withdraw from NATO - let Europe handle it's own problems
No, but forces nato to finally pony up their 2%
Withdraw from the UN - Evict the UN from the US
Please God yes.
Step up pressure on Iran
Yes
Massive reduction of regulations
Yes
Reversal of most or all of Biden's Executive Orders
Yes, we are reversing reversals.
Resumed and increased tariffs, especially vs China
Yes
Eliminate the EPA, the CDC, and several agencies
No, but hope he reforms (doubt anything happens here)
Reverse rising crime stats; get tough on crime
Yes, to an extent. Local DAs determine a lotnof this though.
Prosecute everyone involved in stealing the 2020 election
Yes
Restore power to the free market
Yes

What else?
Big tech reform.
Overhaul the FBI and CIA

Answered last question in quote

 

[Scruddy]

When only one party is sane, you do your best to steer that party to victory above all.

This does not do that, IMO. Make your protest AFTER you’ve secured 4 more years.

12 million illegals is "sane"?
Endless financial support to Ukraine is "sane"?
Not knowing the difference between a man and a woman is "sane"?
Giving billions in military grade weapons to terrorists in the middle east is "sane"?

What is sane about this administration?

 

[Scruddy]

Biden is done.

 

[Jimmy McGill]

Arab Americans aren't reading the newspapers if they don't get that Trump is not their friend.

Biden is trying to negotiate a ceasefire with 2 set of folks that are unreasonable at top.

U.S. troops will step in. WTF do they want. Biden is trying. He is knowledgeable on the topic. Trump doesn't know jack shite about it

 

[SI_NYC]

I’m beginning to think Trump winning is the only way to fix this. Let him come in scorch the country and maybe these idiots finally get some perspective. From the rubble a new and better America will rise or if not we had a good run

That’s not a good idea.