Just answer the question. Why ignore Trump when you post about Wuhan? It's rather juvenile.
The real patient zero? Three Wuhan lab scientists genetically altering Covid were the FIRST to contract the virus, claims report
- Thread starter binsfeldcyhawk2
- Start date
Everything. He used the origin to dismiss how he handled it at home. Your constant whining about Wuhan absolutely misses that point.
Good lord.
This is an amazing post. You actually think that wanting to know if the outbreak originated in a lab is a defense of Trump.
At least I know where you’re coming from now…
LOLWUT?
There's load of evidence it did. In particular, the similarities between related animal reservoir viruses AND actual viral DNA recovered from the wet markets.
Someone doesn't remember the geometric growth in cases and deaths in Spring 2020.
No, not in defense of Trump but ignoring what Trump did at home. He caused deaths, on purpose, and I find the focus on Dr Fauci to be shortsighted.
Imagine if Dr Fauci had purposely downplayed Covid 19.
Pearle Vision is open til 9.
You do realize that if a person is discussing the origins of the covid outbreak Trump probably isn’t going to come up right?
I know it’s a requirement for you…but it’s not for most people.
I'm old enough to remember when Trump wanted people trapped on a cruise ship to stay there, instead of be brought in and treated, because it would impact his "how many Covid cases there were in America" numbers.
Also old enough to remember when Obama brought in Ebola victims to the US for treatment, and withstood the same criticisms, but did it anyway, because it was the right thing to do, and could be done safely.
Someone doesn’t remember the economic, educational, mental, social and political harm those shutdowns did to the country.
They clearly both deserve scrutiny. And I think some people are focusing at times at Fauci because as someone from medical field, many didn't expect he would be anything but honest with the American people. Which in many cases, he was not .
I think most people just assume Trump was full of s--t and concerned most with self interests. That is why people were most surprised with Trump when RBG died and he said something that seemed non scripted and appropriate
Those were inevitable during a pandemic.
And the shutdowns were coming, one way or another. Once you repeated what Italy and Rome went through, around the world, everything was grinding to a halt. Only by ignoring the problem as long as possible, those impacts would have ended up many many times worse.
Probably just a coincidence....
Three Wuhan lab scientists who were genetically altering the Covid virus were the first to fall sick with it, a new investigation has claimed.
According to multiple US government officials interviewed as part of a lengthy inquiry by independent news outlet Public and Racket, the first people infected by the virus are allegedly Ben Hu, Ping Yu, and Yan Zhu.
They were all members of the Wuhan lab suspected to have leaked the pandemic virus and were partaking in gain-of-function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) on SARS-like coronaviruses.
Three Wuhan lab scientists may have been FIRST to contract the virus
According to multiple US government officials interviewed as part of a lengthy inquiry by Public and Racket, the first people infected by the virus are allegedly Ben Hu, Ping Yu, and Yan Zhu.www.dailymail.co.uk
Daily Mail
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE
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mediabiasfactcheck.com
December 19, 2017
The National Institutes of Health (NIH) today lifted a 3-year moratorium on funding gain-of-function (GOF) research on potential pandemic viruses such as avian flu, SARS, and MERS, opening the door for certain types of research to resume.
www.cidrap.umn.edu
The National Institutes of Health (NIH) today lifted a 3-year moratorium on funding gain-of-function (GOF) research on potential pandemic viruses such as avian flu, SARS, and MERS, opening the door for certain types of research to resume.
Feds lift gain-of-function research pause, offer guidance
We're due a release of what the gov knows on the COVID origins question soon. A number of other outlets have picked this up. Obvious implication is that it may info leaked from the upcoming release.Daily Mail
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That's possible. And the lab leak origin is also possible.
But it could also be one of those distorted pre-leaks like the Barr pre-leak of the Mueller Report that cleared the way for half the nation to dismiss actual, serious findings.
For example, when you read the Tiabbi report that is cited by the OP's dubious source, they say these infected scientists were some of the people who were infected first. Which isn't nearly as probative as being the actual patients zero - but the seed has been planted.
That's why I linked the TWIV discussion. Which I realize is too long and too sciency for most here to watch, but is actual virologists and viral security people talking about this situation. And they aren't convinced.
And the wet market explanation is far far more concerning. Because China has done nothing to shut those down. Which means the risks haven't changed.
Well here you go then -Daily Mail
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE
Daily Mail - Bias and Credibility
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no
Documents Link Potential Covid Patient Zero to U.S.-Funded Research in Wuhan
New reporting identified a coronavirus researcher at the Wuhan Institute of Virology who fell ill with Covid symptoms in November 2019.
theintercept.com
The Intercept - Bias and Credibility
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mediabiasfactcheck.com
Again: Matt Tiabbi
And the Australian scientist has already stated "some" of the alleged Wuhan Lab workers they are claiming were sick, were at meetings with her at the time.
So, there seems to be lots of conflicting information on this topic.
Seems like EVERY "blockbuster" report on this filters down to this same "source"
public.substack.com
Matt Tiabbi.
Whom we already know lied about his Twitter Files blockbuster (per actual court filings by Twitter lawyers)
From my perspective, this seems like we're just trying to "flood the zone" with partial information here, and sources like the Australian researcher who worked directly with these folks and claimed there was no such "illness" within this timeframe are being completely ignored, and drowned out.
First People Sickened By COVID-19 Were Chinese Scientists At Wuhan Institute Of Virology, Say US Government Sources
The three scientists were engaged in “gain-of-function” research on SARS-like coronaviruses when they fell ill
public.substack.com
Matt Tiabbi.
Whom we already know lied about his Twitter Files blockbuster (per actual court filings by Twitter lawyers)
From my perspective, this seems like we're just trying to "flood the zone" with partial information here, and sources like the Australian researcher who worked directly with these folks and claimed there was no such "illness" within this timeframe are being completely ignored, and drowned out.
It's also concerning that, as far as I know, we still have some wet markets in the US. And let's not forget our incredibly risky factory farming industry which provides dangerous breeding grounds for avian and swine flu mutations that could be even worse than COVID. Some say it's only a matter of time.
BUT - and this is an important BUT to think about - if we can convince Americans that it was an accidental lab leak, or even a deliberate release by the Chinese, then guess what? We have no need to try to make our factory farming operations safer. A law against gain of function research is all we need. Or rules for better lab standards.
Whew! Bullet dodged.
Better to take the risks posed by factory farming than pay higher prices for chicken and bacon. And definitely worth lobbying and even funding distorted reporting to shift the blame to China and the lab leak possibility. I know, I know, that sounds like a fine conspiracy theory. But you know what? That's exactly the kind of thing we've seen from the tobacco industry and the fossil fuel industry, so would it really surprise you to find out it's true?
The original Spanish Flu was traced to likely coming from a Kansas farm, back in the day....
I trust The Intercept more than the Daily Mail, but they have been known to get things wrong.Well here you go then -
Documents Link Potential Covid Patient Zero to U.S.-Funded Research in Wuhan
New reporting identified a coronavirus researcher at the Wuhan Institute of Virology who fell ill with Covid symptoms in November 2019.
The Intercept - Bias and Credibility
LEFT BIAS These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may
The White Coat Waste Project mentioned in the Intercept report seems to be an interesting amalgam of anti-government and animal rights sentiments. I can't gauge their credibility.
The argument I keep encountering in these reports goes like this...
IF HU, OR ONE OF THE OTHER LAB SCIENTISTS WAS PATIENT ZERO, THEN IT WAS DEFINITELY A LAB LEAK
And they then proceed to act like it is TRUE that Hu and/or the other 2 scientists mentioned were, in fact, patients zero.
So first, it has not yet been proven that Hu or the others were patients zero.
And second, if they are does that actually PROVE it was a lab leak? Think it through and it's clear that it does not.
So here's where we stand. If Hu, et al were p0, then the argument for a lab leak is somewhat stronger. Important to know, if true, but that's it. Somewhat stronger.
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Fauci was hardly forthcoming with acknowledging his involvement in the grants for research at Wuhan
You seem to be trying really hard to believe that it was not a lab leak. Not saying it was one way or the other. If genesis was the wet market why have the Chinese not shut them down?? They have a tight grip on the country
It's crazy how a lifelong Democrat and career independent journalist is now somehow a misinformation super villain. The lengths those in power will go to destroy someone's reputation, and how many of you stupid fvcking sheep will go right along with it, is absolutely insane. I never thought we'd see this in the USA in my lifetime.
Hear me out on my theory. What if it did start with the scientist working on gain of function viruses in the lab and then spread human to human to a worker at the wet market? We know it can spread quick so both the lab and a few days later the wet market may have been “ground zero”. Plausible?
Yep…remember when Glen Greenwald was a hero of the left? Now it’s Taibbi’s turn.
No, way too far fetched. There's simply no plausible way scientists working on novel coronaviruses in a lab could have caught the very viruses they were manipulating, then spread it. You're a racist conspiracy theorist and you should be censored immediately.
Similarly, it could have started in the market, and some scientists caught it there?
Unless you believe it was genetically engineered from something benign - which I don't think any creditable source is saying - then the original virus came from the wild.
There's even more evidence the reservoir is 3 scientists from the Wuhan lab. No animal has been found having the virus DNA that matches the original SARS-COV2 genome. Similar isn't the same. That's why humanized mice were used to increase the ability to infect.
Where is this load of evidence. So far the wet market is primary ground zero. There are 2 possibilities, either one of scientists who was infected went to wet market and picked up the disease there, or was infected at lab and spread it there. If it was scientist, you would have expected them to primarily spread around their families and neighborhoods, not the wet market. The issue is you are still lacking the smoking gun that gain of research caused the infection. The fact no one else has tested this is not unheard of. Ebola and other diseases pop up and then disappear again.
If that were the case this map would look very different.
Initial cases would be centered around where the scientist lives and works, not the market. But looky here.
You are exactly who you are complaining about. There isn't sufficient evidence for anyone to come to a definitive conclusion that the origin is from a wet market or a lab. It shows your bias as well.
Is there?
You and your buddies are doing a fantastic job of not presenting any of it.
I'll try to give that a listen while I'm doing stuff later.
I'm just interested in what the actual reality is, if we can get there. What's interesting right now is that apparently we have a couple agencies that lean towards this having come from a lab. I just want this information.
I'm certainly not convinced of anything at this point. I thought the last round of speculation with the Pangolin DNA found in some of the covid samples was some pretty good evidence, but that turned out to be rather uninteresting.
Like I said earlier... the Tiabbi leaked info possibly hints at something more significant from better sources. If we never get anything more than this nothing much will be settled.
If the researchers were ground zero, wouldn't you have expect the hospital they got care from to have an explosion in cases and became the ground zero and not the wuhan wet market?
