U23s

[24 so far]

I like you bro and I know you don't like freestyle much but this is venturing into crazyland...Scoring is different and par terre but neutral is pretty much the same. Marinelli never wrestled freestyle until last year at Junior World trials...He got to the best 2 of 3 against Hall. Turns out, if you are good at taking guys down in folk, you probably will do well in free. if your last statement is true, why wrestle at all and risk injury?

The cream rises to the top the majority of the time regardless of style.

The main difference in my opinion anyway, is that takedown offense and defense are also different in Freestyle because of exposure. Your thought process and approach has to account for that.


The main thing for me is I get a chuckle out of how many people get all worked up, good or bad, on Freestyle results. It doesn't mean anything relative to Folkstyle. It never has and barring more major rules changes, it never will. I'm here to educate the younger generation so they don't hyperventilate and get high blood pressure over Hawkeye Wrestlers Freestyle results. Relax, it doesn't mean a thing.

As far as whether they wrestle or not in the summer, as long as they're not going up 4-5 weight classes, go ahead and go to the beach or the golf course and have some fun. You're only young once.

 

[moug]

Thanks, I didn’t recall a 4-pt move.

There wasn’t. Banister had 22221 Lugo had 222111. Scoreboard matside must have been wrong though, as Banister’s coach threw in the blue brick at the buzzer. Brooks in the corner was waving off any score at the end. Only way that matters is if they thought Lugo has criteria.

 

[crablegs1]

Sure covering your bases with that prediction aren't you. So you have him placing anywhere from 1st to not AAing. Quite the limb you've gone out on. You'd make a good sports analyst.

My prediction was 5-8. Nice try though.

 

[moug]

Deakin put a beating on Hidlay. That's got to put a smile on wrestlecat's face.

Hidlay came back to win the next 2 to take the series. Hidlay got a continuation TD OOB with :01 to win the rubber 3-2. Not the last battle these two will have assuming Deakin goes 157. He definitely looks the part of a 157 to me.

 

[24 so far]

His ping pong comment was an exaggeration but it was spot on from the standpoint of balance from those who appear to take FS results as being basically equal to folk. Freestyle results are an indicator. No more. No less.

Well I had to change up the reference, using ping-pong instead of how they would fare against each other in a Nascar race.

I just want the Hawk guys to do well If they're entered in whatever. If they suck at Freestyle, golf, softball, fishing, etc., no worries. Strap it on when it's time to go to work in the fall and it's all good for me.

 

[SPOONER]

Am I the only guy that’s not happy with these results? I can’t wait until Spencer is back because I’m not into “placing.”

Eh. It's freestyle. Victory isn't as important as just participating. Also, none of our best wrestlers participated. None of our returning AAs competed, nor did Warner or Desanto.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

Pardon me if I’m a douche here but isn’t Warner already on the Junior World Team?

 

[so cal hawkfan]

For me the best thing to come out of this tourney is basically solidifying the Young to 57 rumor. He looked great at 162 and certainly didn’t lack any strength or conditioning.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Hidlay came back to win the next 2 to take the series. Hidlay got a continuation TD OOB with :01 to win the rubber 3-2. Not the last battle these two will have assuming Deakin goes 157. He definitely looks the part of a 157 to me.

I find it hard to believe he made 149 last season. He looked all of 157 then.

 

[moug]

I believe he made 149 last season. He looked all of 157 then.

True story. I guess with Zain departing and Nolf still @157 there’s plenty of incentive to stay @149 if he can.

 

[IAChief32]

Not if they aren't great folkstylers as well. If it were so, a kid like Hunter Dejong wouldn't basically be walking on at ISU.

You're making my point. Hunter wouldn't have sniffed ISU if not for his freestyle results...they or SDSU and a couple of schools that were recruiting him would have just thought he was another big farm boy playing football and wrestling in his spare time. Do you really think winning a state title in 1A this year would have upped his money?

Same goes for Moody who caught Iowa's attention at Fargo. Moody might not ever start for Iowa but is there any doubt that he could go Div II or other and have real good success? I don't think he qualified for the state tourney his senior year.

 

[IAChief32]

Pardon me if I’m a douche here but isn’t Warner already on the Junior World Team?

And Marinelli competed at Juniors as well.

 

[SPOONER]

You're making my point. Hunter wouldn't have sniffed ISU if not for his freestyle results...they or SDSU and a couple of schools that were recruiting him would have just thought he was another big farm boy playing football and wrestling in his spare time. Do you really think winning a state title in 1A this year would have upped his money?

Same goes for Moody who caught Iowa's attention at Fargo. Moody might not ever start for Iowa but is there any doubt that he could go Div II or other and have real good success? I don't think he qualified for the state tourney his senior year.

But these guys are basically walk ons. I thought one of your points, and perhaps I misinterpreted, was that big time college coaches go after the best freestylers.

 

[SPOONER]

Pardon me if I’m a douche here but isn’t Warner already on the Junior World Team?

Yes of course. If this was in response to my post I think you're taking what I said out of context. Look at the comment I directly replied to.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

True story. I guess with Zain departing and Nolf still @157 there’s plenty of incentive to stay @149 if he can.

Sorry — meant to say I found it hard to believe he made 149. Dude looked massive compared to other 49-pounders.

 

[IAChief32]

But these guys are basically walk ons. I thought one of your points, and perhaps I misinterpreted, was that big time college coaches go after the best freestylers.

He’s not the best freestyler...but has had good results...that’s how he made his name against guys outside the state.

Look at Justin Mejia...one of a few Cali 4 timers yet our coaches weren't necessarily breaking down the door to retain him. Our staff went with Teasdale over Mejia. They would have went with Renteria over Mejia as well. Why? They weren't sure about his results outside of the state of Cali whereas Renteria and Teasdale had results to study and quantify outside of Illinois. Had Mejia went to Fargo or UWW and validated those results with a title or two, it would have been a different story...even with a grade situation, they would have worked with him. Bo Nickal could have won Texas state titles until the cows came home but it was freestyle results that got him to State College. Outside of a few states like PA, NJ or Ohio, you almost have to freestyle to get any money at the best D-1 schools unless your team travels to tourneys like the Beast or Ironman where you get to face tough guys.

It's not a rule but it's one of the best measurements they have in today's wrestling and freestyle's popularity is a big reason why kids are coming out ready to roll and win titles in folk these days. Spencer, Yanni, Mark Hall all won world titles in free...all came out and won national titles their first year.

 

[SansSouci]

He’s not the best freestyler...but has had good results...that’s how he made his name against guys outside the state.

Look at Justin Mejia...one of a few Cali 4 timers yet our coaches weren't necessarily breaking down the door to retain him. Our staff went with Teasdale over Mejia. They would have went with Renteria over Mejia as well. Why? They weren't sure about his results outside of the state of Cali whereas Renteria and Teasdale had results to study and quantify outside of Illinois. Had Mejia went to Fargo or UWW and validated those results with a title or two, it would have been a different story...even with a grade situation, they would have worked with him. Bo Nickal could have won Texas state titles until the cows came home but it was freestyle results that got him to State College. Outside of a few states like PA, NJ or Ohio, you almost have to freestyle to get any money at the best D-1 schools unless your team travels to tourneys like the Beast or Ironman where you get to face tough guys.

It's not a rule but it's one of the best measurements they have in today's wrestling and freestyle's popularity is a big reason why kids are coming out ready to roll and win titles in folk these days. Spencer, Yanni, Mark Hall all won world titles in free...all came out and won national titles their first year.

You take a Pennsylvania kid over a Cali kid any day if it’s close. Cali wrestlers are great on their feet Pennsylvania kids are usually good at all three aspects. I’m not recruiting a freestyle stud to win folkstyle championships. Great blast double to lace doesn’t do shit for you on bottom in folk. I think you’re putting too much in to freestyle results. It’s just an added bonus.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Too old?

Hidlay came back to win the next 2 to take the series. Hidlay got a continuation TD OOB with :01 to win the rubber 3-2. Not the last battle these two will have assuming Deakin goes 157. He definitely looks the part of a 157 to me.

Dang! Still,nice showing for Deakin! He’s got to deal with Nolf and Hidley next year! Glad to see Young win. I hope Iowa State gets it going. We need them top 10! Great tradition.

 

[24 so far]

He’s not the best freestyler...but has had good results...that’s how he made his name against guys outside the state.

Look at Justin Mejia...one of a few Cali 4 timers yet our coaches weren't necessarily breaking down the door to retain him. Our staff went with Teasdale over Mejia. They would have went with Renteria over Mejia as well. Why? They weren't sure about his results outside of the state of Cali whereas Renteria and Teasdale had results to study and quantify outside of Illinois. Had Mejia went to Fargo or UWW and validated those results with a title or two, it would have been a different story...even with a grade situation, they would have worked with him. Bo Nickal could have won Texas state titles until the cows came home but it was freestyle results that got him to State College. Outside of a few states like PA, NJ or Ohio, you almost have to freestyle to get any money at the best D-1 schools unless your team travels to tourneys like the Beast or Ironman where you get to face tough guys.

It's not a rule but it's one of the best measurements they have in today's wrestling and freestyle's popularity is a big reason why kids are coming out ready to roll and win titles in folk these days. Spencer, Yanni, Mark Hall all won world titles in free...all came out and won national titles their first year.

Like I said previously Chief, the cream rises to the top regardless of style. I'd take those 3 cats against 99% of other guys in their weight and age group if it were Greco, Beach or Sumo. The studs find a way.

There is certainly a benefit to getting some exposure at a place like Fargo against national competition as far as helping your own recruitment, good on your feet, toughness, quicks, that sort of thing. Might get your foot in someone's door for sure.

But it won't help determine if you can be ridden like a merry go round pony or can turn tough kids in Folkstyle.

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

You take a Pennsylvania kid over a Cali kid any day if it’s close. Cali wrestlers are great on their feet Pennsylvania kids are usually good at all three aspects. I’m not recruiting a freestyle stud to win folkstyle championships. Great blast double to lace doesn’t do shit for you on bottom in folk. I think you’re putting too much in to freestyle results. It’s just an added bonus.

OK - so what did happen with Mejia? Grades (SAT/ACT) not so good.

 

[SPOONER]

Like I said previously Chief, the cream rises to the top regardless of style. I'd take those 3 cats against 99% of other guys in their weight and age group if it were Greco, Beach or Sumo. The studs find a way.

There is certainly a benefit to getting some exposure at a place like Fargo against national competition as far as helping your own recruitment, good on your feet, toughness, quicks, that sort of thing. Might get your foot in someone's door for sure.

But it won't help determine if you can be ridden like a merry go round pony or can turn tough kids in Folkstyle.

Yes .

You take a Pennsylvania kid over a Cali kid any day if it’s close. Cali wrestlers are great on their feet Pennsylvania kids are usually good at all three aspects. I’m not recruiting a freestyle stud to win folkstyle championships. Great blast double to lace doesn’t do shit for you on bottom in folk. I think you’re putting too much in to freestyle results. It’s just an added bonus.

And yes (freestyle part).

There's correlation in terms of overall success. No doubt. But to apply that at the match level just doesn't wash.

 

[SPOONER]

OK - so what did happen with Mejia? Grades (SAT/ACT) not so good.

Many issues between the ears. I think he's left Illinois again.

 

[ping72]

How was sophomore year?

I pick Lugo to AA next year, but lots of people on this board have him being a very high AA/title contender. I’m not there yet.

So is a true freshman getting to the round of 12 a failure. Yes or no. Simple question.

How would you have felt if spencer lee was rd12 this year?

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

How would you have felt if spencer lee was rd12 this year?

I hate to butt in - but that entire convo needs to be regulated. I suppose if a True FR like Lee was only a R12 it would be disappointing and maybe the season was a fail - but it would not make him a failure, especially considering the huge bed comforter he wore around his knee the entire season.

 

[el dub]

I hate to butt in - but that entire convo needs to be regulated. I suppose if a True FR like Lee was only a R12 it would be disappointing and maybe the season was a fail - but it would not make him a failure, especially considering the huge bed comforter he wore around his knee the entire season.

You must need glasses. That was a Samsonite suitcase that he wore last season.

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

You must need glasses. That was a Samsonite suitcase that he wore last season.

c'mon man! I thought we were bros? I don't need glasses old man - I just elect to utilize them to make me look smart.

 

[SPOONER]

How would you have felt if spencer lee was rd12 this year?

Please.

 

[Huck]

There wasn’t. Banister had 22221 Lugo had 222111. Scoreboard matside must have been wrong though, as Banister’s coach threw in the blue brick at the buzzer. Brooks in the corner was waving off any score at the end. Only way that matters is if they thought Lugo has criteria.

Hearing the coaches on flo. I heard one of them come over and say, "We have to have a way to know criteria"...it's apparent that everyone including Banistur thought Lugo was winning. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for those guys considering how bad it pisses me off sitting here at home with "nothing" really going into the process.

Let me say I love freestyle but motherFF it's terrible sometimes watching these scoring debacles and crappy reffing jobs. I mean I know freestyle is tougher to ref than folkstyle but are these guys really the best freestyle refs we can put out there? I mean they're no better than the ones I see around here at the local freestyle tournaments. USA Wrestling should be freaking embarrassed if you ask me.

 

[AFHawk86]

Hearing the coaches on flo. I heard one of them come over and say, "We have to have a way to know criteria"...it's apparent that everyone including Banistur thought Lugo was winning. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for those guys considering how bad it pisses me off sitting here at home with "nothing" really going into the process.

Let me say I love freestyle but motherFF it's terrible sometimes watching these scoring debacles and crappy reffing jobs. I mean I know freestyle is tougher to ref than folkstyle but are these guys really the best freestyle refs we can put out there? I mean they're no better than the ones I see around here at the local freestyle tournaments. USA Wrestling should be freaking embarrassed if you ask me.

Huck - I agree with your frustration about knowing who is winning. Needs to be simplified and easiest way to keep track without going to OT is last score. Whoever scored last wins.

 

[SPOONER]

Huck - I agree with your frustration about knowing who is winning. Needs to be simplified and easiest way to keep track without going to OT is last score. Whoever scored last wins.

Just have OT. End it on the mat.

 

[Notsofastmyfriend21]

Like I said previously Chief, the cream rises to the top regardless of style. I'd take those 3 cats against 99% of other guys in their weight and age group if it were Greco, Beach or Sumo. The studs find a way.

There is certainly a benefit to getting some exposure at a place like Fargo against national competition as far as helping your own recruitment, good on your feet, toughness, quicks, that sort of thing. Might get your foot in someone's door for sure.

But it won't help determine if you can be ridden like a merry go round pony or can turn tough kids in Folkstyle.

Vito looks like the real deal, but I'm wondering about just that, starting in November. Can't leg lace anyone in college wrestling, and you have to get out from bottom.

 

[Notsofastmyfriend21]

I'm not going to get down on Lugo because of one freestyle match. I'm not getting down on ANYONE because of one freestyle match. RBY smoked the field and then Vito rolled him twice....big deal. See you this winter, without the leg lace and you need to ride and get out from bottom.

 

[Omahahawk86]

I’m with you on Lugo. I look at the returning guys at 149 (assuming Deakin moves up) and think he’s right there at the top of the list. Not sure if some 141 will move up? But who’s out there that is heavily favored over him?

Couple 57’s are rumored to be going down to 49.

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

Couple 57’s are rumored to be going down to 49.

rumors are cool - keep 'em coming with no names and no proof. It is rumored that every NC is coming to Iowa and agrees to accept no Schollie money - as long as they get to wear the black and gold.

 

[Omahahawk86]

rumors are cool - keep 'em coming with no names and no proof. It is rumored that every NC is coming to Iowa and agrees to accept no Schollie money - as long as they get to wear the black and gold.

Will do

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

The cream rises to the top the majority of the time regardless of style.

The main difference in my opinion anyway, is that takedown offense and defense are also different in Freestyle because of exposure. Your thought process and approach has to account for that.


The main thing for me is I get a chuckle out of how many people get all worked up, good or bad, on Freestyle results. It doesn't mean anything relative to Folkstyle. It never has and barring more major rules changes, it never will. I'm here to educate the younger generation so they don't hyperventilate and get high blood pressure over Hawkeye Wrestlers Freestyle results. Relax, it doesn't mean a thing.

As far as whether they wrestle or not in the summer, as long as they're not going up 4-5 weight classes, go ahead and go to the beach or the golf course and have some fun. You're only young once.

If you don't wrestle during the summer you're not winning an NCAA championship. Maybe you were just referring to competition, but it's absolutely necessary to train during the summer these days if you want to AA or be a champ. (With the exception of Spencer Lee being injured last summer to disprove my point)

 

[MVPFAN]

Nothing against Mejia personally but we dodged a huge bullet there. He flat out is just not that good.

 

[24 so far]

If you don't wrestle during the summer you're not winning an NCAA championship. Maybe you were just referring to competition, but it's absolutely necessary to train during the summer these days if you want to AA or be a champ. (With the exception of Spencer Lee being injured last summer to disprove my point)

If you're good enough you can do whatever you want in the summer and still win NCAA Championships.

If you're trying to move up the ladder, its probably a good idea to wrestle in the summer, but in my opinion it is nowhere near a must. Burnout is real too, and kids get injured ever year and have to take time off and they do just fine.

You may huff and puff a little more for the first couple weeks of practice, but it works out, if you're good enough.

 

[Grip220]

Nothing against Mejia personally but we dodged a huge bullet there. He flat out is just not that good.

Not every bluechipper is going to pan out we all know that. My take on this weekend is that we have very very solid 49 and 57lbers to add to a awesome line up. Free and folk are not the same at all but as some have stated already the Neutral position is very similar if you can finish a single or double it’s the same in both. I cannot stand some of the rules with freestyle first and foremost being put on the clock and the points system are way too subjective I can go on and on but you understand.
A guy like Vito I think Will be a better freestyler than folk but that one is probably because of his background his father was a world champion and his training probably leans him that way.
Overall the best wrestlers in folk can transition into freestyle better than the reverse we have seen that with how our world team is doing currently.
Sometimes the great NCAA guys will not be our be our best world team guys but everyone understands if your not competing year round you will not be making any podiums so freestyle has its roll either way.
Im really glad to see all of the corner support from M* and the alum there must have been 15+ guys in Youngs corner pulling for him when he was going for 3rd I love it...

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Im really glad to see all of the corner support from M* and the alum must have been 15+ guys in Youngs corner pulling for him when he was going for 3rd I love it...

We shouldn't underestimate the value of the HWC at tournaments like this (and I'm not saying you are, Grip -- quite the opposite, actually). Our HWC guys are great mentors, training partners, coaches, and cheerleaders. Their influence was all over this past weekend. They're a huge source of support for the guys currently in the program, and the value of that support is enormous.