That's not the opinion of the major medical associations. Let families make their own decisions. Their choices are not our concern when it has no impact on the public at large.
US Study: Cisgender Kids (mostly Boys) Are The Majority of Teenagers Getting Gender Affirming Surgery (Absolutely Nobody under 12)
- Thread starter Morrison71
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So advocating for trans rights is the same as supporting slavery? Twisted logic, one group is in favor of allowing families to make their own medical decisions and the other wants the government to ban certain choices.
The one advocating for choices is equal to supporting slavery?
No; you haven't.
You've seen quacks making that claim.
The actual correlation to autism is with early childhood infections. Which has been posted here for you many many times.
Joe I don't have the desire today to bicker with you and your big pharma romance. You took a snippet of what I said and focused on that to make a point I already conceded.
You'll notice that Mr. Moderate/Both Sides did not return to address this.Here is the study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association:
National Estimates of Gender-Affirming Surgery in the US
This cohort study examines trends in inpatient and outpatient gender-affirming surgical procedures in the US and explores the temporal trends in the types of procedures across age groups.jamanetwork.com
I get it. I realize that it is hard to believe some random internet guy when the major medical associations are supporting gender affirming care. When these associations started supporting WPATH and gender affirming care, I could not understand why it was happening. I had read the research and none of it pointed to conclusive evidence that gender affirming care was beneficial.
I was confused how the majority of medical institutions and doctors changed their mind about gender care in a very short time and without any significant research. I tried to find the reason for these actions, and what I found was very scary. This was a top down implementation of an ideology coming from the US, EU, WHO, WEF, etc. (I realize this sounds like conspiracy, but I have done the research and read the documents, so anyone can believe it or not, I don't care). This is all part of the 17 sustainable development goals desire for gender equality that has now spun out of control.
I was willing to go against the popular research and narrative the last few years because I stuck to my own analysis and what I read. Now you have seen much of Europe back off gender affirming care because they now realize that it is not based in science. Even the US has backed of in some areas already, but more will come in the future. I posted the Cass report above which was a very unbias report on gender care. More and more people are coming around to the fact that they have been lied to about gender care.
These children and parents put their trust in doctors to treat them and make them feel better. Instead, the doctors are practicing experimental medicine on these kids. Most parents do not have enough medical knowledge to go against the advice of their doctors.
Sorry for the long narrative, but I am very passionate about this topic. I truly feel bad for the kids and parents who have been deceived and will never be the same. I have seen the pain that this ideology has caused people and it breaks my heart. I have lost a lot of faith in the medical community. This is medical malpractice and it will go down in history as a dark time for medicine. We all will require medical care at some point, we all expect our doctors to give us the best care possible, so we all need to take action when we see malpractice on such a large scale. (doctors are people too and they are susceptible to corruption, ideology, and sometimes just poor judgement).
Mother of god man, that’s the POINT.
There were 150 of them, and only 4 of them had to do with gender affirming care.
Ergo, a big part of what people are objecting to about this is vanishingly rare.
I think the way the medical community has handled trans care for children is on par with the worst medical malpractice that has ever been done in history. Does that equal slavery? I don't know, you can decide for yourself.So advocating for trans rights is the same as supporting slavery? Twisted logic, one group is in favor of allowing families to make their own medical decisions and the other wants the government to ban certain choices.
The one advocating for choices is equal to supporting slavery?
The government has lots of laws, I don't think it is unreasonable to protect children when they are being harmed by the people they are supposed to trust the most.
The comment by me was in poor taste, I have now deleted it.
The idea that gynecomastia was even included in this article makes me discredit it. This was clearly a written to try to minimize the issue and make republicans look foolish.
I posted above about how the numbers are pulled (based on insurance claims vs. cash pay). The numbers in the article are not accurate. They do not take into account for all the cash pay patients.
Regardless, I do not agree with the claim that since the number of surgeries are low, that this makes it ok. Malpractice is malpractice. We have seen an exponential rise in claims from 20 years ago, how do you know the numbers will not continue to rise exponentially?
What number of gender affirming surgeries on minors is acceptable to you? is 200 acceptable? how about 500? how about 1800 (this is how many kids died from covid and they were included in needing vaccines from the pandemic)
What's your point?
Cis boys get gender-affirming surgeries more often than trans minors - LGBTQ Nation
The study flies in the face of right-wing talking points.www.lgbtqnation.com
Nobody is complaining about those sorts of surgeries on boys. (gynomastia)
As for the numbers...
I assume they're using insurance claims. The other part of the question is how often this stuff is actually covered by insurance.
While I think a lot of people over estimate the frequency of this stuff -- we basically do this with any political problem anymore -- I do have my doubts that there were only 4 mastectomies done over 4 years on kids under 18 or whatever it was.
I assume they're using insurance claims. The other part of the question is how often this stuff is actually covered by insurance.
While I think a lot of people over estimate the frequency of this stuff -- we basically do this with any political problem anymore -- I do have my doubts that there were only 4 mastectomies done over 4 years on kids under 18 or whatever it was.
Wouldn't anyone that has insurance at the very least file a claim whether the surgery itself would be covered or not? Couldn't there be other parts of their hospital stay that would be covered?
The point is there are very few gender affirming care surgeries being preformed on minor transgenders despite the fact that it's constantly a Republican talking point.
This study says 3k+ for the under 18 crowd. (edits: possibly inclusive of 18)
jamanetwork.com
Abstract
Importance While changes in federal and state laws mandating coverage of gender-affirming surgery (GAS) may have led to an increase in the number of annual cases, comprehensive data describing trends in both inpatient and outpatient procedures are limited.
Objective To examine trends in inpatient and outpatient GAS procedures in the US and to explore the temporal trends in the types of GAS performed across age groups.
Design, Setting, and Participants This cohort study includes data from 2016 to 2020 in the Nationwide Ambulatory Surgery Sample and the National Inpatient Sample. Patients with diagnosis codes for gender identity disorder, transsexualism, or a personal history of sex reassignment were identified, and the performance of GAS, including breast and chest procedures, genital reconstructive procedures, and other facial and cosmetic surgical procedures, were identified.
Main Outcome Measures Weighted estimates of the annual number of inpatient and outpatient procedures performed and the distribution of each class of procedure overall and by age were analyzed.
Results A total of 48 019 patients who underwent GAS were identified, including 25 099 (52.3%) who were aged 19 to 30 years. The most common procedures were breast and chest procedures, which occurred in 27 187 patients (56.6%), followed by genital reconstruction (16 872 [35.1%]) and other facial and cosmetic procedures (6669 [13.9%]). The absolute number of GAS procedures rose from 4552 in 2016 to a peak of 13 011 in 2019 and then declined slightly to 12 818 in 2020. Overall, 25 099 patients (52.3%) were aged 19 to 30 years, 10 476 (21.8%) were aged 31 to 40, and 3678 (7.7%) were aged12 to 18 years. When stratified by the type of procedure performed, breast and chest procedures made up a greater percentage of the surgical interventions in younger patients, while genital surgical procedures were greater in older patients.
Conclusions and Relevance Performance of GAS has increased substantially in the US. Breast and chest surgery was the most common group of procedures performed. The number of genital surgical procedures performed increased with increasing age.
National Estimates of Gender-Affirming Surgery in the US
This cohort study examines trends in inpatient and outpatient gender-affirming surgical procedures in the US and explores the temporal trends in the types of procedures across age groups.
jamanetwork.com
Abstract
Importance While changes in federal and state laws mandating coverage of gender-affirming surgery (GAS) may have led to an increase in the number of annual cases, comprehensive data describing trends in both inpatient and outpatient procedures are limited.
Objective To examine trends in inpatient and outpatient GAS procedures in the US and to explore the temporal trends in the types of GAS performed across age groups.
Design, Setting, and Participants This cohort study includes data from 2016 to 2020 in the Nationwide Ambulatory Surgery Sample and the National Inpatient Sample. Patients with diagnosis codes for gender identity disorder, transsexualism, or a personal history of sex reassignment were identified, and the performance of GAS, including breast and chest procedures, genital reconstructive procedures, and other facial and cosmetic surgical procedures, were identified.
Main Outcome Measures Weighted estimates of the annual number of inpatient and outpatient procedures performed and the distribution of each class of procedure overall and by age were analyzed.
Results A total of 48 019 patients who underwent GAS were identified, including 25 099 (52.3%) who were aged 19 to 30 years. The most common procedures were breast and chest procedures, which occurred in 27 187 patients (56.6%), followed by genital reconstruction (16 872 [35.1%]) and other facial and cosmetic procedures (6669 [13.9%]). The absolute number of GAS procedures rose from 4552 in 2016 to a peak of 13 011 in 2019 and then declined slightly to 12 818 in 2020. Overall, 25 099 patients (52.3%) were aged 19 to 30 years, 10 476 (21.8%) were aged 31 to 40, and 3678 (7.7%) were aged12 to 18 years. When stratified by the type of procedure performed, breast and chest procedures made up a greater percentage of the surgical interventions in younger patients, while genital surgical procedures were greater in older patients.
Conclusions and Relevance Performance of GAS has increased substantially in the US. Breast and chest surgery was the most common group of procedures performed. The number of genital surgical procedures performed increased with increasing age.
No, like I said above, if you submit this stuff to ins, but it gets denied, then you will owe significantly more than the cash payment.
It does not always make sense to submit to ins.
I don’t know to be honest if you want a number. What we know is there were 7 cases of gender affirming care, 4 top 3 bottom.
How many kids are paying the tens of thousands in cash? I’m guessing not many.
The point is simply that this entire thing just isn’t happening with any real frequency.
If people should just have to accept their body as is, and not get any insurance money to change anything, do you feel the same way about IVF?
I dont know the exact numbers. I live in iowa where laws prevent some of this stuff. What I see may not translate to what is going on in California.
It is not 10s of thousands to get a top Surg mastectomy or breast aug. People who want something will pay for it whether they can afford it or not. Logic does not always apply.
I am not trying to mislead anyone on the numbers, they are what they are. I simply don't think surgery is an appropriate treatment for gender dysphoric kids.
Ivf is a totally different issue. The evidence shows healthy kids are born with ivf. I support ivf for people who want it.
I think they are a good option. They lower the need for surgery later by stopping changes to the body during puberty. Allow for the minor's brain to mature before making major decisions about their bodies. There effects are mostly reversable once the individual stops taking them if they change their mind. Seems like the best of both worlds. The child gets to try living as their preferred gender without making permanent life changing choices.
I think it should be up to the insurance company. Why do you want to tell business what they can and cannot cover?
We all got vaccinated as kids and there were hardly any autistic kids in the 1970s and 80s…compared to now.
Some would call it The Bro, while others prefer The Manssiere.
Either way, it solves the problem for many.
Either way, it solves the problem for many.
You are the craziest most stupid person on this board and that's ****ing saying something. You need to be in a looney bin but at the very least you need to shut your God damn hole and quit making yourself look more stupid.
Lol weird how facts make Republicans look stupid. You need to reevaluate your life
I’m in the weeds honestly. I just think this issue is massively overblown compared to something like food insecurity which effect millions of kids around the country.
The fact that early childhood infections are directly correlated with autism has nothing to do with "big pharma", Cletus.
I'm an 80's baby our vaccine schedule was like 8 when I was a kid, it's at about 38 now
Do you think there are any consequences from not going through puberty during the teenage years? What age do you think a kid needs to decide to go off puberty blockers? Puberty is what makes the brain and body mature. What about bone density, height, general health. Puberty is a normal part of the teenage years and while it is difficult, it is easier to deal with when you are supported by your friends going through the same thing. The consequences of significantly delaying puberty is largely unknown.
Puberty blockers are used on young kids for precocious puberty all the time and this is fine. So I am not against puberty blockers in general.
The vast majority of kids who take puberty blockers go on to take cross sex hormones and are on a pathway to much greater medical interventions. Cross sex hormones after puberty blockers may lead to a loss of fertility, and sexual dysfunction. The research shows that delaying puberty by using puberty blockers does not improve outcomes.
What are the long term health consequences if a biological boy takes puberty blockers and then takes cross sex hormones without ever going through a natural puberty? What happens if they need to stop taking cross sex hormones in the future. These are all things that are unknown.
Why don't you leave those decisions to patients and doctors, instead of voting for people who will outlaw them as therapies?
I think a lot of this is explained by a group of socially awkward and or otherwise not conventionally attractive people coalescing around the idea of LGBTQ. It functionally is just a gathering point for oddballs.
But they just as easily could've been goth or the like. It's just LGBTQ became a visible, popular (enough) thing.
This video does a great job of pointing out that a lot of LGBTQ really isn't about actually being LGBTQ
Because it seems if we can't leave in the hands of doctors who are paid by the insurance companies and big pharma to do the right thing.
This board has a transgender poster, posters with transgender children, Doctors, and Gay posters that have more expertise on this subject than most of us on this board. Why should your thoughts on transgender care be more trusted than those with actual personal experience?
The "insurance companies" WANT to pay out more $$ for transitioning trans-children???
Wait a minute - a D Cup is a severely deformed breast?
I beg to differ.
Depending on the frame and structure of the woman it may be normal.
Young women who (over) develop so that they need special bras and they have shoulder and back problems requiring reduction surgery ( a serious operation and rehab) should qualify for insurance coverage.
UPDATE:
I just re-read your post and now I see what you were saying - a young woman develops one breast that’s very small and the other very large.
I saw an episode of Botched where this was the case.
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If the taxpayers are paying for it then we do get a say.
Let people who are of age make the decision about their body and let them or their family pay for it.
You don't have to trust what I say is true. Research what I say and form your own educated opinion. I work closely with this population and I have my own insight that a parent or trans person does not have.
However, there is a unique perspective to gain from being transgender or being a parent of a transgender. But just being trans does not make you an expert.
For all the reasons I have listed above. I believe this is child abuse and medical malpractice. Child abuse is not ok just because a doctor agreed to it.
A child is not developed enough to understand the consequences of this decision. Some parents are not educated and just trust the doctor and others are excited about having a non binary child. Doctors have proven that they are not always putting the well-being of the child first.
Medicines goal should be not to harm children and to offer a treatment that has the best chance for success. Gender affirming care does harm kids and the treatment is not proven to help. It seems like a no brainer that this should not be offered to kids.
I am not opposed to further research on the subject though, but this should be performed under significantly different circumstances than we have had the past 10 years.
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