What did he take with him? It just seems as though since he left the Hawks have struggled with winning the big ones and taking a dip in recruitment. Was he as big as loss that I think he was?
When Doug Schwab left for UNI...
- Thread starter hawkaeg80
- Start date
If he took something with him he musta lost it on I380 between Iowa City & Cedar Falls.
Ramos
Telford
Evans
Lofthouse
Jeba
McD
DSJ
Moore
Moore
Ballweg
vs
Gilman
Clark
Turk
Sorensen
Kemmerer
Marianelli
Brooks
Burak
Stoll
JRent
Mejia
I think we're doing just fine on the recruiting front without Doug. Now we have to produce results on the mat.
Yeah, he stopped for a tenderloin at the TicToc, or a Superburger at the Starlight, and someone nicked the magic recruiting formula outta his car. Damn shame. 
I think it's more of a coincidence that some think recruiting suffered once he left.
IMO, this is what happened. Iowa high school wrestling is no longer "elite" in terms of the number of stud National recruits. The number of Iowa kids in the top 50-75 has fallen off dramatically. Iowa has been forced to head EAST for elite kids. Always tougher to get kids to go 1000 miles away from friends and family.
It's taken a few years to get the Kems/Marinelli/Young pipeline developed. In that time... CS got the Taylor/Ruth duo and the rest is history.
Iowa has turned the corner, I think, and I feel the future is bright.
While Schwab was high energy in his time at Iowa, the results at UNI have not been what many expected.
IMO, this is what happened. Iowa high school wrestling is no longer "elite" in terms of the number of stud National recruits. The number of Iowa kids in the top 50-75 has fallen off dramatically. Iowa has been forced to head EAST for elite kids. Always tougher to get kids to go 1000 miles away from friends and family.
It's taken a few years to get the Kems/Marinelli/Young pipeline developed. In that time... CS got the Taylor/Ruth duo and the rest is history.
Iowa has turned the corner, I think, and I feel the future is bright.
While Schwab was high energy in his time at Iowa, the results at UNI have not been what many expected.
To me we needed Hall and Lee. Puke State got Hall We need Lee to keep within 2 studs of PSU. PSU also snagged Suriano that was big for them. We picked up a couple of really good wrestlers but we are still 2 studs behind. We are doing better Lee would tip scales and we would be 1 stud back. Maybe Thomsen would be a stud to pull us even closer. Happel is good but I don't think he puts us over the top. We are doing better but we need to recruit great.
I am sure Schwab was a valued asset for the Hawks, but it takes more than one person to make it happen. To say his results at UNI are poor would be kind of unfair to him. He does not have the tradition, money, or support (i.e...Brands and a ton of HWC guys around) to work with. He is a one man show and that is difficult to maintain a high level of success.
The Hawkeye machine is bigger than any one person. You have a great leader at the top of it who is much harder to rep[lace than a Schwab. I don't think that diminishes the contributions he made though.
The Hawkeye machine is bigger than any one person. You have a great leader at the top of it who is much harder to rep[lace than a Schwab. I don't think that diminishes the contributions he made though.
Lookleft, hammer on the nail there. Schwab was a great hire for the panthers but it takes an army not just a good general to create a national power. Also, I wouldn't consider the Hawks little decline since he left be based on him leaving as much as Cael just beating us to the punch lately especially picking up more pure talent then us but also getting his guys ready to go when the lights are shining brightest better then we have since our last title. Teams like Ohio state upping their game over the last 5 years haven't helped any either. I definitely think UNI is at a better place with schwab then without him but do not correlate our decline to us losing him as a coach.
Umm there are multiple national titles in one group and none in the other. Actually a lot of hope they are in the other. Plus Doug was with Tom at VT so you are missing Metcalf, Jaybo etc. Your point may end up being valid but likely 2-3 years away from knowing that. Although Gilman and Clark can work on equaling McD/ Ramos as of this weekend. Not having multiple 25 point individuals scorers is why we are not winning team titles. Quality over quantity. Well unless you are a fan of a dual deciding the team title.
IMO we lost some good recruiting in Doug. I think he had a knack with relationships the kids that had been missing. But that being said Doug also doesn't get to wear the Iowa wrestling brand name when he walks in the house anymore. Doug with an Iowa shirt on is a bit more dangerous than being asked where is Cedar Falls located by a parent? I like UNI but Doug shouldn't retire there if a big name job opens up soon. I think UNI has a ceiling that will hold him slightly back. Imagine Doug at say Pitt, Rutgers or something like that where he is in a hotbed.
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UNI ceiling-----small money, small school, small town, no expectations, poor facilities, etc
UNI positives-----pack the West Gym, strong conference (not like B1G though), give more scholarship $ than top programs.
UNI positives-----pack the West Gym, strong conference (not like B1G though), give more scholarship $ than top programs.
I'm a UNI fan in addition to being an Iowa fan. Doug's challenges have been depth/injuries and some development. That can all go hand in hand. His recruiting, for UNI's level, has been outstanding. He has a way to go to prove himself as a head coach but as a whole, UNI fans are still happy with him.
The thing that concerns me most about recruiting is that a large percentage of the best recruits never even consider us. Hall, for example, had a list of 5 schools that he was considering. Iowa, which was like 3-4 hours away from where he lives, wasn't even a school he was considering. How is that possible with Iowa's tradition and resources? It has been all too common and is one of the reasons that our last top 5 recruit before marinelli was mike Evans, who was here for 5 years and has been gone for over a year. I love the brands bros myself, but IMO their hard core, balls to the wall approach puts off a lot of young kids. We simply can't compete for a national championship year in and year out if we aren't getting top 5 and top 10 kids every year like PSU and Ohio state are doing.
Of course, recruiting isn't the whole story. You have to develop your talent, which we do in some cases. But it seems to me a lot of kids never really develop past their first couple years in the room into elite wrestlers we expect them to become (Evans, lofthouse, gambrall, Nate and Nick Moore, Telford, dziewa, anyone named ballweg, Carew, kelly, etc). I'll keep current wrestlers out of the discussion because the jury's still out on a lot of them, but a number of them are following the same path IMO.
On top of that, our retention of our wrestlers is an issue. Losing guys we count on like Skon, gross, baldosaro, berge is killing us.
Of course, recruiting isn't the whole story. You have to develop your talent, which we do in some cases. But it seems to me a lot of kids never really develop past their first couple years in the room into elite wrestlers we expect them to become (Evans, lofthouse, gambrall, Nate and Nick Moore, Telford, dziewa, anyone named ballweg, Carew, kelly, etc). I'll keep current wrestlers out of the discussion because the jury's still out on a lot of them, but a number of them are following the same path IMO.
On top of that, our retention of our wrestlers is an issue. Losing guys we count on like Skon, gross, baldosaro, berge is killing us.
Yes, it's obvious that the current team has not produced at national champion. However, the OP mentioned that recruting has dipped without Schawb but that is not the case. One could argue the Telford/Evans/Jeba/Moore class set Iowa wrestling back more than Schwab going to UNI. IMO, recruiting is fine without Doug.
And as I clearly stated now we need those recruits to produce results on the mat.
That is what would concern me the most if I were a die hard Hawk fan. They should be in the discussion for every top recruit. I am not sure the Valencias considered Iowa either, although that was kind of a freak situation with the new coach and everyone all excited about ASU.
I think the part in bold is more myth than anything. I agree with much of what you say, but I think you're buying into a concept that non-Iowa folks like to perpetuate.
The fact is that some kids aren't a great fit for certain programs. As shocking as some will find it, not everyone is even well-suited for PSU. The same goes for every program, from the national powers to the MSU's of the world. Also remember that even the best recruits can come with some serious baggage. Overbearing parents can play a huge role in the recruiting process, for example. Some recruits, no matter how good, may not always be the best for team chemistry. There's a lot to be said for how a kid fits into a program, and that applies to every program.
As for development, every program has the guys who don't work out as expected, as well. I think Iowa is at least on par with other programs in that regard.
As for retention, we've had some horrible luck over the past 8 years or so with some great young wrestlers who never panned out. I think those cases have a lot more to do with the recruits, themselves, than the Brands brothers or the Iowa program.
I'm not claiming that Iowa is Utopia. However, it's important to remember than no program is. Plus, I don't think there's any doubt that recruiting is looking up and that there's a generally very positive vibe around the Iowa program these days. Iowa has enough haters out there claiming that Tom and Terry are too "hard core" and "balls to the wall" -- we don't need to be buying into that baloney as Iowa fans.
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If Iowa can somehow get a NCAA champ @149 and above, I think the prospects would also improve. That's why such high profile guys as Kem and AlexM achieving that result will improve our chances at guys similar to Hall or the other upper weight high school studs.
Iowa's strength has always been the lower weights, nothing new there. If the Hawks manage to get success at multiple weight ranges, the future will be pretty bright, imo.
Iowa's strength has always been the lower weights, nothing new there. If the Hawks manage to get success at multiple weight ranges, the future will be pretty bright, imo.
Whatever the reason that the Hawks are not getting the top recruits, one thing seems certain. The Brands are not going to sell their soul to land someone. They are straight shooters and honest people and that says a lot about them. I as a parent of a potential recruit, would trust them implicitly. I can't say that about all the other coaches. I am not saying that I have a kid who would ever be recruited by Iowa, but rather if I did have such a child, that is how I would feel.
That's the only place where I disagree, look. Of course, there are top recruits we haven't landed, but we're getting more, and I think that trend will continue.
There were a few years there where I think recruiting took a dip. We still got VERY good wrestlers but for those 4 years when Mike Evans was around he was the only top 100 wrestle on the roster I believe. I have heard others say that in the past.
With Kemmerer, marinelli, Renteria, Mejia, and Young coming on board I look for the Hawks to win another National Championship soon.
With Kemmerer, marinelli, Renteria, Mejia, and Young coming on board I look for the Hawks to win another National Championship soon.
I don't think this is true. Depending on the year you're talking about, you had Jeva, Moore, St John, Lofthouse, and Telfors who were all top 100. Most of them were top 50 and I think some in top 25.
That's way off. There were 7 in his class alone. Baldasaro and Ballweg didn't make it all 5 years but Dziewa, Telford, Moore and Kelly (plus Evans) all did. Dziewa, Evans, Moore and Telford were all big timers.
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