23 things we learned from Iowa State's wrestle-offs

[crablegs1]

A title with no champs has only been done once in recent memory...they had 10 AAs. So which is more logical...WasDT stating that you need champs to win titles or your scenario of a decade of titles with no champs? You give a near impossible scenario to justify your defense of Dresser not putting guys on top of the podium.

Yes...Brands would lose his job if he consistently finished top ten but had no individual titles. I am old enough to remember when we finished second with no champs and folks were calling for his head.

The point is that hitting on dresser for no individual champs is stupid. Coaches are judged based on their team performances. Dresser’s teams consistently perform at a high level. KJ had multiple individual champs, but it is clear what coach anyone would want on their team.

So, yes, I used an unlikely hypothetical to prove a point.

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

A title with no champs has only been done once in recent memory...they had 10 AAs. So which is more logical...WasDT stating that you need champs to win titles or your scenario of a decade of titles with no champs? You give a near impossible scenario to justify your defense of Dresser not putting guys on top of the podium.

Yes...Brands would lose his job if he consistently finished top ten but had no individual titles. I am old enough to remember when we finished second with no champs and folks were calling for his head.

 

[SPOONER]

Anyone who doesn’t think Kevin Dresser is a good wrestling coach is either an idiot or a troll. I fear some of you may actually be the former.

 

[wasdt21]

dresser is an iowa boy who won national title while being a hawkeye ,same for st. john, metcalf all time great. i have no reason to bash these guys. ya'll think they are doing great.me i was expecting much better by this time .live with it and your meager expectations.

 

[SPOONER]

Kyle Briggs just pushed Broderson’s poo. 8-1 with 2 minutes of RT. Needless to say, Broderson did not look good at all.

 

[sstark46]

A title with no champs has only been done once in recent memory...they had 10 AAs.

We won a team title in 2009 with no individual champions, only Metcalf as a finalist

 

[herkcy]

I watched the ISU-Wartburg dual today. With that said I would hope any ISU faithful that say that team is a top 3 team now reconsiders. Broderson got thumped by a good DIII wrestler. Now I know that could be an anomaly, as Lincoln lost his first match as well. Regardless, that alone should make you reconsider. Also, the Cuban has talent, but to add any points from him in the team race right now is a stretch. A possibility, definitely. Out of the remaining eight weights there is one returning AA. I'm sure Redding looks good in the room, but he was a top 100 recruit. Not the kind of pedigree you say places as a true freshman. If he beats Small out. I'm not trying to knock ISU at all. Just being realistic. All fan bases have pie in the sky fans to start the season and it's probably a good thing to have that optimism. As for the Flo rankings they sound good right now and that is why KD is promoting them. They are ranking points without ranking freshman as Willy said. They also have ISU (including Gomez), OSU & NCST all 3rd, as well as PSU not accounting for some freshman. If anyone wants to bet some cash on ISU finishing the season top 5 look me up.

With that said I think KD is doing a good job. I agree that he was the best pick out of the possible candidates. It's also nice to see his recruiting, or I should say the staff's recruiting is starting to come around.

 

[MitchLL]

ISU actually lost some individual matches against a D-3?

Yeah, definitely a top 5 program.

 

[crablegs1]

I watched the ISU-Wartburg dual today. With that said I would hope any ISU faithful that say that team is a top 3 team now reconsiders.

That should be easy considering no one has ever said that.

 

[crablegs1]

ISU actually lost some individual matches against a D-3?

Yeah, definitely a top 5 program.

Last year you were ranking Wartburg over ISU and now it’s a disappointment if they don’t blank them. Guess they really are improving.

 

[TJHall1]

That should be easy considering no one has ever said that.

Competing for top 5 is what you said. After today you should see that you're completely delusional.

 

[crablegs1]

Competing for top 5 is what you said. After today you should see that you're completely delusional.

Yep, and I stand by it. I’ll take ISU w/in 10 points if 5th at NCAA. $100 to the winners choice of wrestling related charity. You in?

 

[TJHall1]

Yep, and I stand by it. I’ll take ISU w/in 10 points if 5th at NCAA. $100 to the winners choice of wrestling related charity. You in?

LOL

Now its changed to being within 10 points of 5th.

 

[crablegs1]

LOL

Now its changed to being within 10 points of 5th.

What do you consider “competing”?

 

[herkcy]

Crab,

Similar to you I do check out the CF site, so yes there were a handful of fans that have said top 3. One even said title if Iowa faltered.

As far as the bet I'll take $100 and top 5. No "pad". No donation. Just Crab giving Herk hard earned cash, no checks. The spread from 5th to 10th at the 2019 tournament was 11.5 points. With that said 10 points is a lot of places potentially. I would say you were trying for a bait & switch there, but you are an ISU fan, so you just didn't do your research.

 

[MitchLL]

Last year you were ranking Wartburg over ISU and now it’s a disappointment if they don’t blank them. Guess they really are improving.

That was last year, as you said. Now that the Clones have jumped Wartburg, they are up to 4th... trailing only Iowa, UNI, and Upper Iowa.

Can they pass Upper Iowa... who knows? They'll have a chance to beat a depleted UNI squad in a few weeks.

Baby steps for Pollard's big hire.

 

[crablegs1]

Crab,

Similar to you I do check out the CF site, so yes there were a handful of fans that have said top 3. One even said title if Iowa faltered.

As far as the bet I'll take $100 and top 5. No "pad". No donation. Just Crab giving Herk hard earned cash, no checks. The spread from 5th to 10th at the 2019 tournament was 11.5 points. With that said 10 points is a lot of places potentially. I would say you were trying for a bait & switch there, but you are an ISU fan, so you just didn't do your research.

Go ahead and send me that link to CF. It’s possible I missed it.

10 points is one AA. I never said ISU would take 5th and I wouldn’t bet on them to do it. What I’ve said is they’ll be competitive with a shot at 5th. One wrestler can make the difference to get to 5th and I think that is competitive.

 

[herkcy]

Crab,

"
cyclonenation5
Well-Known Member

Wednesday at 11:10 AM

• #3

8 all-Americans would at least get a runner up finish, possibly a team title if Iowa had things go awry at nationals.

Also, it’s probably not going to happen. This is best case scenario for pretty much every single guy in the lineup.

I think we’re going to be very tough this year, but I don’t think we have 8 AAs and get top 2. And that’s ok."

I didn't recall it verbatim, sorry.

"
cyclonenation5
Well-Known Member

Wednesday at 2:41 PM

• #13

CyCloneRastlinG said:
Agreed, this is definitely best case scenario and won’t happen. My main point was that it could happen if everything went right. Even with that 8 AA’s though I don’t think we’d crack the top 3 or 4. Those 5th-8th places typically don’t rack up near as many points as top 3 guys who put up bonus points and pin. Degen is the only one who has proven to be a consistent bonus point guy and could score a lot of points at nationals on the backside while the others seem to win by decision. All those AA points are wiped out by 2 or 3 really good finishes with bonus points on a Minnesota, NC State or Ohio State.

Adding up advancement and placement points, this team with your projection would score at least 90 points. That’s with 0 bonus/activity points added on.

With 95-100 points, I’d be shocked if that didn’t crack the top 3."

 

[herkcy]

Go ahead and send me that link to CF. It’s possible I missed it.

10 points is one AA. I never said ISU would take 5th and I wouldn’t bet on them to do it. What I’ve said is they’ll be competitive with a shot at 5th. One wrestler can make the difference to get to 5th and I think that is competitive.

Crab,

In your defense your post said 6-8. With that said I won't razz you for not betting me. I hope they do get 6-8. I would say it is possible. I would say 8-10 is more likely. I also root for ISU to be right behind Iowa. Makes going to Nationals more fun as I have several good buddies that are Cyclone fans.

FYI, Eight Places 16 12 10 9 7 6 4 3 are the placement points minus advancement and bonus points.

 

[crablegs1]

Crab,

In your defense your post said 6-8. With that said I won't razz you for not betting me. I hope they do get 6-8. I would say it is possible. I would say 8-10 is more likely. I also root for ISU to be right behind Iowa. Makes going to Nationals more fun as I have several good buddies that are Cyclone fans.

FYI, Eight Places 16 12 10 9 7 6 4 3 are the placement points minus advancement and bonus points.

Right so your average 6th placer scores around 10 points.

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

Kyle Briggs just pushed Broderson’s poo. 8-1 with 2 minutes of RT. Needless to say, Broderson did not look good at all.

Dominated him. Got a 4 pt near fall while picking up a riding time point, and really could have had the major.

 

[JWolf74]

Dominated him. Got a 4 pt near fall while picking up a riding time point, and really could have had the major.

Why the hell am I quoted in this? From another thread?

 

[Menace Sockeyes]

Why the hell am I quoted in this? From another thread?

Ha! Sorry about that. Forgot I was going to quote you in another thread. Fixed.

 

[MitchLL]

So............I'm reading CF to see opinions from ISU fans.

Can't make this shit up, the biggest topic of discussion about the Wartburg dual is some kid near the ISU bench wearing a Hawkeye stocking cap. Fans outraged that this could happen.

Living rent free in the heads of Clone fans is almost as entertaining as continually kicking their asses in all the major D-1 sports.

Really disappointed that Hawks couldn't shut out the Fightin Dressers this year.

 

[moug]

So............I'm reading CF to see opinions from ISU fans.

Can't make this shit up, the biggest topic of discussion about the Wartburg dual is some kid near the ISU bench wearing a Hawkeye stocking cap. Fans outraged that this could happen.

Living rent free in the heads of Clone fans is almost as entertaining as continually kicking their asses in all the major D-1 sports.

Really disappointed that Hawks couldn't shut out the Fightin Dressers this year.

Was it someone on the coaching staff?

 

[SPGroth]

Kyle Briggs just pushed Broderson’s poo. 8-1 with 2 minutes of RT. Needless to say, Broderson did not look good at all.

Briggs is a tough kid, ranked #2 at 174 in D3. Had a great chance to make the finals last year in Cedar Rapids, before the d3 tourney was cancelled.. Watched his high school career. Had his Dad referee several of the middle school duals that I coached. A great wrestling family in the CR area.

 

[SPOONER]

Briggs is a tough kid, ranked #2 at 174 in D3. Had a great chance to make the finals last year in Cedar Rapids, before the d3 tourney was cancelled.. Watched his high school career. Had his Dad referee several of the middle school duals that I coached. A great wrestling family in the CR area.

All well and good. But #2 in D3 shouldn't be destroying a major college starter.

 

[Gonzo Bloor]

Anyone who doesn’t think Kevin Dresser is a good wrestling coach is either an idiot or a troll. I fear some of you may actually be the former.

I think Dresser is a good coach. He's had some whiny moments with regards to Iowa, but he's a good coach. The thing that caused me to lose some respect for him is in the post-match presser a few years ago when he referred to the Briggs kid as someone they found at a 7-11. I got his point, that they were severely undermanned at 125 and put someone out there. But that kid works his tail off in their room and when the team needed him to step in against the best wrestler in the country, he stepped up and put his ass on the line. He deserved better from his coach than to be referred to as "a guy they found at 7-11." If he were my kid, I'd have been thoroughly pissed at KD for that.

 

[IAChief32]

I think Dresser is a good coach. He's had some whiny moments with regards to Iowa, but he's a good coach. The thing that caused me to lose some respect for him is in the post-match presser a few years ago when he referred to the Briggs kid as someone they found at a 7-11. I got his point, that they were severely undermanned at 125 and put someone out there. But that kid works his tail off in their room and when the team needed him to step in against the best wrestler in the country, he stepped up and put his ass on the line. He deserved better from his coach than to be referred to as "a guy they found at 7-11." If he were my kid, I'd have been thoroughly pissed at KD for that.

Did anybody verify if there is an actual 7-11 in Ames?

 

[UndercoverHawk]

Did anybody verify if there is an actual 7-11 in Ames?

I know for a fact there’s not. And not in Gilbert either

 

[TarpHawk]

I have a question. Yes this will get people fired up. Why is it everyone use the old line Iowa high school talent isn’t as deep as it use to be. I have not seen any info showing the state of Iowa dropping off. You can use recruiting rankings to make an argument but who can predict how a kids going to act growth or injuries in college. Or the classic line there aren’t any Iowa kids starting for the hawks. Doesn’t that mean the coaching staff does better job developing talent that doesn’t already wrestle iowa style. I do think the state of Iowa High school levels still wrestles old school style of hand fighting and try breaking a guy. I would like to see a little more creativity in high school level. I still believe you are born D1. You can learn all the moves in the world but if your not freaky fast or strong it doesn’t matter.

Flo 2021 HS Big Board Top 10/Top 50:
PA: 0/13
CA: 2/6
NJ: 2/6
OH: 1/6
IL: 0/4
IA: 1/2 (Ayala & #43 Caleb Rathjen)
NY: 1/2
MD: 1/2
MN: 0/2
MI: 1/1
KS: 1/1
OK/MO/TX/IN/WI: 0/1

Among Iowa HS grads who've gone on to win NCAA titles (I may be off by a couple):

2011-20:
McDonough ('12)
St John ('13)
Clark ('17)

2001-10:
Juergens ('01-02)
Moore ('07)
Trent Paulson ('07)
McDonough ('10)
Borschel ('10)

1991-2000:
Terry Brands ('92)
Tom Brands ('91-92)
Reiland ('91)
Sharratt ('94)
McGinness ('95, 98)
Whitner ('97)
Ironside ('97-98)
Fullhart ('97)
Schwab ('99)

1981-90:
Davis ('82-83-85)
Zalesky ('82-83-84)
Darkus ('84)
Joe Gibbons ('85)
Heffernan ('86)
Dresser ('86)
Voelker ('87)
Van Arsdale ('88)
Alger ('87-88)
Krieger ('87, 89)
Terry Brands ('90)
Tom Brands ('90)

 

[UndercoverHawk]

Flo 2021 HS Big Board Top 10/Top 50:
PA: 0/13
CA: 2/6
NJ: 2/6
OH: 1/6
IL: 0/4
IA: 1/2 (Ayala & #43 Caleb Rathjen)
NY: 1/2
MD: 1/2
MN: 0/2
MI: 1/1
KS: 1/1
OK/MO/TX/IN/WI: 0/1

Among Iowa HS grads who've gone on to win NCAA titles (I may be off by a couple):

2011-20:
McDonough ('12)
St John ('13)
Clark ('17)

2001-10:
Juergens ('01-02)
Moore ('07)
Trent Paulson ('07)
McDonough ('10)
Borschel ('10)

1991-2000:
Terry Brands ('92)
Tom Brands ('91-92)
Reiland ('91)
Sharratt ('94)
McGinness ('95, 98)
Whitner ('97)
Ironside ('97-98)
Fullhart ('97)
Schwab ('99)

1981-90:
Davis ('82-83-85)
Zalesky ('82-83-84)
Darkus ('84)
Joe Gibbons ('85)
Heffernan ('86)
Dresser ('86)
Voelker ('87)
Van Arsdale ('88)
Alger ('87-88)
Krieger ('87, 89)
Terry Brands ('90)
Tom Brands ('90)

Drew Foster

 

[jrod65]

Gadson

Flo 2021 HS Big Board Top 10/Top 50:
PA: 0/13
CA: 2/6
NJ: 2/6
OH: 1/6
IL: 0/4
IA: 1/2 (Ayala & #43 Caleb Rathjen)
NY: 1/2
MD: 1/2
MN: 0/2
MI: 1/1
KS: 1/1
OK/MO/TX/IN/WI: 0/1

Among Iowa HS grads who've gone on to win NCAA titles (I may be off by a couple):

2011-20:
McDonough ('12)
St John ('13)
Clark ('17)

2001-10:
Juergens ('01-02)
Moore ('07)
Trent Paulson ('07)
McDonough ('10)
Borschel ('10)

1991-2000:
Terry Brands ('92)
Tom Brands ('91-92)
Reiland ('91)
Sharratt ('94)
McGinness ('95, 98)
Whitner ('97)
Ironside ('97-98)
Fullhart ('97)
Schwab ('99)

1981-90:
Davis ('82-83-85)
Zalesky ('82-83-84)
Darkus ('84)
Joe Gibbons ('85)
Heffernan ('86)
Dresser ('86)
Voelker ('87)
Van Arsdale ('88)
Alger ('87-88)
Krieger ('87, 89)
Terry Brands ('90)
Tom Brands ('90)

I don't know why, but the irony of not having Gadson on your list in a thread about ISU made me chuckle....

 

[IAChief32]

Darkus was from PA and Jim Gibbons says "No shit?"

 

[herkcy]

Nice work on the list. Heffernan is from Ohio and Sharrett is from Minnesota.

 

[6packgone]

Don’t forget about tanner solan. Also spooner there is tons of D1 talent that goes D3 because of different reasons. Augsburg had kid that went toe to toe with Bo nickle was ranked 2 in his class. I’m not saying Briggs is anything off the chart but just don’t throw D3 wins without looking

 

[LagunaBeachHawk]

Flo 2021 HS Big Board Top 10/Top 50:
PA: 0/13
CA: 2/6
NJ: 2/6
OH: 1/6
IL: 0/4
IA: 1/2 (Ayala & #43 Caleb Rathjen)
NY: 1/2
MD: 1/2
MN: 0/2
MI: 1/1
KS: 1/1
OK/MO/TX/IN/WI: 0/1

Among Iowa HS grads who've gone on to win NCAA titles (I may be off by a couple):

2011-20:
McDonough ('12)
St John ('13)
Clark ('17)

2001-10:
Juergens ('01-02)
Moore ('07)
Trent Paulson ('07)
McDonough ('10)
Borschel ('10)

1991-2000:
Terry Brands ('92)
Tom Brands ('91-92)
Reiland ('91)
Sharratt ('94)
McGinness ('95, 98)
Whitner ('97)
Ironside ('97-98)
Fullhart ('97)
Schwab ('99)

1981-90:
Davis ('82-83-85)
Zalesky ('82-83-84)
Darkus ('84)
Joe Gibbons ('85)
Heffernan ('86)
Dresser ('86)
Voelker ('87)
Van Arsdale ('88)
Alger ('87-88)
Krieger ('87, 89)
Terry Brands ('90)
Tom Brands ('90)

Stewart Carter back in the 80’s for Iowa St also.

 

[SPOONER]

Don’t forget about tanner solan. Also spooner there is tons of D1 talent that goes D3 because of different reasons. Augsburg had kid that went toe to toe with Bo nickle was ranked 2 in his class. I’m not saying Briggs is anything off the chart but just don’t throw D3 wins without looking

Yeah because I didn't look or anything.

 

[LagunaBeachHawk]

Darkus was from PA and Jim Gibbons says "No shit?"

Jim Gibbons was what ‘81 or ‘82 champ?

 

[MitchLL]

One more question after seeing the Wartburg results... how damn funny was it that the Wartburg victory @ 165 came from a former Clone wrestler that transferred to Waverly to get better coaching and ended up beating a former teammate? Maybe ISU can be a "feeder program" for the Knights?

Pretty unusual in year four to have no legitimate D-1 caliber wrestler at 165 for the Fightin Dressers.