Do we really know what Gard said after Howard said he would remember the timeout? The grab and restraint was inappropriate, but if the language was more than a neutral "what do you mean", then Gard needs to also face punishment, but not a severe as what Howard needs to get. Both teams could be hurt if some of their better players also have to sit out a couple of games for throwing punches. UM is already a bubble team, and this could make it burst.
Brawl in Madison
- Thread starter Chishawk1425
- Start date
A great breakdown and some angles and discussion I missed before. Up next...a grassy knoll video...
All valid points, but both men had opportunities to make much better choice to simply pass by, yes? They could take leave until cooler heads prevail, perhaps meet at a pub or over the phone to explain themselves like gentlemen.
I believe the players that struck others should be punished as well. They must be held accountable for their own actions and their retrospective teams must bare the penalty.
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Then Howard should NOT have been in the gaddammed line.
Yeah, maybe so. Even then, extending your hand for a handshake gives the other person the opportunity to accept or deny. Physically grabbing someone and not allowing them to continue about their way doesn't provide them with the same choice. Gard doesn't get to decide whether or not Howard should or shouldn't listen.
Maybe it's just me, but I find the touching between (some) coaches to be weird.
I stand by my original statement, they were both wrong, one moreso than the other.
Not in a instance like this. Gard knew Howard was mad. He could have let it go
This is as level headed of a review you can get and it came from a Michigan vlogger.
I think he's dead on with the punishments, even Gard. As much as I've been arguing about his responsibility in all of this I doubt he sees any consequences because his actions were foreshadowed by what transpired afterwards. I think that's a shame because Gard sets a poor example for his players (which is unsurprising) but other than grabbing Howard he didn't strike anyone and I think that's what the league is going to act on.
Edit to say: that for a michigan fan that is as good as you can expect after listening to his finish. Glosses over howards role in grabbing. Makes it sound like gard says FU (which he probably does) but it's after Howard puts his hand on gard several times all while telling gard to don't f'ing touch me. Again like a drunk at bar close. One person here has lost composure. Gard should have just turned around and waved all of his players off the court. That's were gard went wrong. Should have taken a page from fran and got them out of there.
It was baffling to watch these coaches continue to keep their players on the court, walk away. It's really not that hard.
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Ive seen this between Mike K and roy williams a few times. It happens several times a year. You just don't see people acting like it's bar close.
I'm laughing at the thought of Gard trying to physically retaliate against 6'9" Juwan Howard.
I'm just happy this didn't involve an iowa team. If you told me a brands or fran did this, I honestly wouldn't be surprised.
There was a thread on twitter that said which big ten coach would you have expected to be in this situation, the vast majority said fran. So don't think I'm the only one that thinks that.
There was a thread on twitter that said which big ten coach would you have expected to be in this situation, the vast majority said fran. So don't think I'm the only one that thinks that.
I like how he looks over his shoulder as if to say "HELP ME!". lol
Can you share a link of Coach K stepping in front of Roy and stopping him? Who can forget
Hopefully this serves as reminder and fair warning of where they need to draw the line. If I were Barta, I would use this as a point for review with all Iowa coaches, maybe the Brands and Fran twice. And, ask that they remind their rosters as well.
He has to act differently around Howard than any other coach because he's a psychopath?
Not exactly the same but coach k just kept walking. If anyone thinks that gard was able to stop and "restrain" howard think again.
Uh, the line needs to be further back IMHO. I agree with McC when he cancels the handshake in volatile situations. This CF is exactly why he has been smart doing so when he's done it.
If I were a B1G men's basketball coach, I would never shake Howard's hand again. He doesn't deserve the friendly move.
No, it's not absurd. Sometimes the better man walks away. Also, your team just beat them by double digits and no one is talking about that. If Gard would have just smiled (or maybe a smirk if he wants to get in a small dig) and kept going the conversation today would be about how well the Badgers are playing.
You don't think Fran is aware that anything resulting in physical violence is over the line? I'd suggest that's exactly why he's pulled his team off the court prior to the handshake line previously when things are highly tense.
You may want a better example or the video. Lot's of open court and Roy isn't directly in front of him. I know it's out there or it may have been Knight. I know K has 'lectured' coaches before by standing in front of them and stopping their movement.
Not exactly the same but coach k just kept walking. If anyone thinks that gard was able to stop and "restrain" howard think again.
So not only should he remind Fran that something he has shown to understand and avoid is expected, but he should remind him twice? Maybe that is what you meant, but it doesn't read that way to me.
This doesn't even mention the way Howard does the stare down shit, which he did to Gard after the timeout. He's done that numerous times in other games as well, basically saying "I'm a bad ass, and you don't want to mess with me". As others have said he was picking for a fight, and when all he got was words from Gard, he decided to escalate things.......
Generally blame on both sides in issues like this, where one side could go away before it gets to Defcon 1.
This raw video lets you hear what was going on.
Sounds like Howard is saying he won't forget this (I guess calling a TO). Gard is not having it and it goes on from there.
Appears to me that Howard should face long suspension. Krabbenhoft also lengthy suspension. Gard at least 1 game due to not controlling his team. Kiabate from Michigan multi-game suspension. A couple of guys on Wisconsin team get into it as it goes to the ground, so they are probably looking at suspensions too.
J Whitlock can be an ass sometimes himself, but I'll say this about the guy, he's no uncle tom. He'll call a spade a spade or call out a brother, something he's been ridiculed in the community for.....
The point from me was more to do with contentious handshakes. And again gard wasn't stopping howard if howard wanted to keep walking, much like coach k just kept walking.
Here’s my one complaint with Howard. He got mad that gard called a TO so he could coach his guys and not get a 10 sec. So that’s bad but it’s ok for Howard to keep coaching his guys to press. No press Wisconsin walks the ball up court game over. For what it’s worth both are asses in my opinion well before this incident but Howard is worse.
Fran is noted for his temper and if he can put up with the jawing those two illini assistants threw out, howard can certainly handle handle gard.
In a word "yes"...by saying "shown to understand and avoid", really? I hope you are right, honestly. The Fran I see is close to exploding at some point in almost every game he coaches. It never hurts for Leader to gently remind his staff of what is expected.
He didn’t hurt the guy nor was he trying to. He could have really hit him and he didn’t. It still shouldn’t have happened and he should be disciplined for his actions.
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Howard is clearly sending a message to BIG coaches that if you get the best of us, I will kick your ass. He is a bully who needs to go. Not the first time.
And yet. Fran has actually been the standard for NOT letting this shit happen. On more then one occasion he's waved the players off. That deal with Illinois last season could have been exactly like what we saw here. Even worse this happened with an arena full of people. Heaven forbid we see something like this escalate into the stands like the NBA game in Detroit years ago.....
I don't understand all this Gard knew Howard was mad -- he could have let it go stuff.
If anyone had the right to be pissed, it was Gard...
What's worse, pressing someone else's scrubs to score some cheap points or calling a 30 to get them organized when the other team is running a layup drill on them?
If anyone had the right to be pissed, it was Gard...
What's worse, pressing someone else's scrubs to score some cheap points or calling a 30 to get them organized when the other team is running a layup drill on them?
