Brawl in Madison
- Thread starter Chishawk1425
- Start date
I think this is a good summary of what went down,... I also think it provides some support for those who have been saying that Gard also bears some responsibility.
You don't step in front of someone in a handshake line like Gard did.
Again he should have just said nice game and walked on instead of confronting Howard.
In no way am I say Howard was right in his actions but Gard could have just walked on.
Howard should not have been pressing Gard's scrubs or be PO'ed that Gard called a TO under those circumstances. If you're still playing, the other side can, too.
True, Gard could have let Howard walk by without a word or touching his arm, but Howard's reaction was that of a loose cannon.
After getting the full scoop on how this all unfolded, it's obvious that this is mostly on Michigan.
I'm not saying he hit Gard. I'm say a person might not like you touching the when you are addressing something with them. I was addressing Twindman's topic.
And there it is.
I couldn't tell you Gard's name before yesterday's incident. I don't follow other college basketball teams like I used to. I look at the video replays without being partial either way. I don't know a damn thing about Gard. I'm not defending anyone, just stating what I saw.
The bold part above clearly demonstrates that you don't like Gard or Wisconsin. That's fine. But, that is impacting your analysis of the situation. You are trying to place more blame on Gard for whatever reason. I've seen the same sentiment by others in this thread, for both coaches. Why do you need to chastise posters for 'defending Gard' when they are objectively looking and commenting on the incident?
Both head coaches should be disciplined, Howard should not have been restrained by Gard as they passed, perhaps Juwan should be disciplined more severely hitting the assistant. Assitant coaches from Wisconsin and at least two players from Michigan, one or two players form Wisconsin with punches thrown. All should be punish-ed with at least one game suspension.
Amen. This has zero to do with race.
I'll say it again, I'LL SHOUT IT FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK. Everything Howard did is inexcusable, from the time he started staring at the other coaches after that time out. So let's put all that aside, Howard deserves to be punished to the max the league office is allowed and Michigan should reconsider Howard as their head coach. He has no business being a head coach.
Having said that Gard bears some responsibility for what happened by grabbing Howard, which set off the chain of events that resulted in a coach getting smacked and punches thrown. He should have just kept walking. Nor did his assistant need to do a hip check towards Michigan (taunting) nor did the coach that wound up getting smacked need to rush in trying to get at Howard. These are all coaches where part of their responsibility is to train and be the example of student athletes.
Again, just to be clear NONE of what I said about Gard changes anything with Howard, it does not excuse him whatsoever.
No way.
Gard has every right to ask Howard what the hell he means by "I'm going to remember that timeout!".
An animated discussion is fine...which is basically where it was headed until JH threw hands.
But now you're going to suspend Gard because JH can't control himself? Absent the 'punch' this was a minor dustup between adults.
restrained? Watch any handshake line, any, and you will see that elbow grab almost every time someone talks to someone else. That was not out of the ordinary for a coach to do. It's just like the handshake hug.
Me neither, before yesterday I had no idea what his name was.
This isn't true, I'm just a Hawkeye fan that doesn't like Wisconsin. Seeing Hawkeye fans defend Badgers is new to me, I assumed we all couldn't stand them. Howard was already livid, he was running his mouth as he went through the line, grabbing someone (anyone) that pissed off by the arm is going to get a reaction and that's what Gard did which set off a series of events that led to his assistant getting smacked and players throwing punches. If he had wanted to talk to Howard there was a better time and place for it. Cooler heads should prevail. I've been through a hand shake line with pissed off coaches before, never would I ever consider grabbing them by the arm so I could get my 2 cents worth in. Not in front of the kids.
You forgot to say "in your opinion". It is your opinion that I'm wrong.
You forgot to tell me how I'm dying on some hill. You going to explain that one for me?
And Howard wasn’t interested. Do you really think it’s a good idea to put your hands on someone who is obviously frustrated/mad?
I think that's about the way it went down,.. and I also think that's why Gard isn't entirely innocent here.
the "hill" is an issue you choose to pursue with wholehearted conviction and/or single-minded focus, with little or no regard to the cost. it's an allusion to the military practice of capturing/holding a hill (high ground), no matter the cost or (lack of) benefit, as in the battle of hamburger hill. usually used in the negative, as in "it's not a hill I'm willing to die on".
you seem willing to die on the "hill" that gard deserves some blame. not saying you're right or wrong, merely giving some clarification on the term.
Yes, with a closer look at the clip, you will find Gard's left hand stuck and closed at the crux of Howard's elbow...holding him there...keeping him from freely passing. He wanted to pass, he kept him form doing so. There was no doubt by that time, a hug or handshake was not wanted.
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Go watch it again, Gard did not just put his hand on Howard's elbow he grabbed him. Look at this picture, it's plain as day that Gard grabbed Howards arm. Look at Howard, he wasn't even engaging with Gard, he was going to walk on bye.
Howard should be held accountable for what he did, no excuses for it. But Gard played a role in this as well.
Yeah, that's a vice-like grip if I've ever seen one.
You don't get to say that you're mortally offended by someone else's behavior, then feign surprise when they stop you & ask you what in the hell you're talking about.
"I'm pissed at you for that timeout!!"
"WTF, you're the one pressing my scrubs with 30 seconds left!!"
Exactly. You don't get to play victim when you're the one who opened your mouth first. If you do that, expect a response.
I am only commenting on what we know took place, surely you are not suggesting that coaches and players brawling at the end of a game is remotely acceptable, regardless of the motivations.
If Howard is to be disciplined for hitting an assistant, Gard's restraint of Howard's free passing has to factored in. Howard did not react as he did without Gard's effects, all be it much milder than Howard's reaction. I grant you that.
to look him in the eye to talk. Something you see out of people with leadership qualities. What you immediately see is howard grab him by the chest, Now that was an aggressive/fighting posture. The issue here is that howard had little self control and was making decisions like a drunk at bar close. He was looking for a reason to escalate and someone daring to talk back to him was the justification he needed.
If this had been the first time something happen with howard, you may be right but this is the 3rd. Maryland and rutgers did happen.
What Gard did was not unusual in situations like that, what was different was howard's grab, finger pointing, and almost a need to elevate that to a physical confrontation.
Did you have to say this? I quit reading after this lol. That statement is the most cringe thing ever. Please tell me you are a 19 year old lib female earning her karen wings while complaining on Facebook about nothing that even pertains to your life. Ugh. This thread is now gone.
Nothing gard did warranted howards grab, finger and swinging. Full stop. Howard was pissed and lacks self control.
You can see gard was coming in for a handshake and hand to elbow, they were already there. You know what wasn't there howards hand to gards chest like he was ready to punch him. You can tell howard was like, shit i shouldn't have done that, because he immediately releases gard and opens his hand.
If he has an issue with that, he needs to seek professional help before being allowed to coach some teens....
Coaches have done what gard did MANY times...do we suspend them all or only when it involves a psychopath like Howard???
Howard was being a baby and didn't even want to get in the line. He wanted confrontation before anything even happened.
To say gards minor touch stopped Howard from moving is an effing joke. I could have removed gards hand easily and kept walking....
Get real dude
Howard messed up big time and Gard was out of line restraining Howard. The situation could have been handled the next day via a phone call instead of trying to deal with it immediately after the game. However, my issue is with the Wisconsin assistant who clearly is shown screaming at Howard and the Michigan players. If he shuts up he does not get hit. He, more than Gard, is responsible for what happened IMO. Given all that, Howard may be lucky to not be suspended for the rest of the season, or let out of his contract for cause. Head coaches have to control themselves.
Yep, people keep putting me in the position of defending Howard. There is zero defending Howard's actions.
Damn! I think it is a good idea you step away from this thread. Stepping away from forums may not be a bad idea either.
