Downey just tweeted that he wants tobe a Hawkeye

[dicemen99]

Took a wander over to themat on a slow day and apparently the Hawkeyes will be adding another fan if PDIII makes it to Iowa. Hopefully the mods will just allow a new handle like 22guns or something like that as I'm sure he will turn over a new leaf under the guidance of the core of great HR posters. Trust the mods!

Really pulling for this to happen. Really am, the potential entertainment value for this transfer is unmatched.

 

[dicemen99]

Sheesh guys. Overreacting. I didn't say it was right or justifiable. In fact I called him a "dick" for doing it. I simply said I don't feel bad for her and don't see how him posting the video automatically makes him a bad teammate.

I have a 2 year old daughter by the way and I love her with all of my heart. I would never want her to go through that. But, MY JOB is to educate her enough for her not to be DUMB ENOUGH to let someone video tape her doing that. I would hope she will have enough character to avoid doing it to someone like him in the first place, but at least know better than to let it get recorded.

THAT IS MY POINT. She was dumb enough to do it, so I don't feel bad for her and him showing it off doesn't effect my opinion either way on whether or not he would be a good wrestler for Iowa.

This is really a bad take. It's akin to saying a girl should know better than to get stupid drunk in a frat house or in the company of some MSU football players. Yeah, she should, no sh*t sherlock. Not relevant.

 

[ih8iast8]

Way to victim blame. What Downey did is completely unacceptable, and just because other people have done it before him is not a good reason to not care. Sharing pictures or videos like that without consent is never ok or justifiable.

In fact, there are laws being created to make posting such videos without consent a crime.

 

[Pennstate1985]

him showing it off doesn't effect my opinion either way on whether or not he would be a good wrestler for Iowa.

It should affect your opinion as to whether he would be a good fit for a specific program. What happens if Downey posts another bj video while on the team? You don't think people are going to complain loudly that Tom and the university looked the other way on allowing a known offender of such things into the program? Good coaches get fired for poor judgement like that. There are repercussions to the university and coaches if things go south, such as claims that the institution is soft on sexual crimes, Title 9 issues etc. Just say NO.

 

[MSU158]

This is really a bad take. It's akin to saying a girl should know better than to get stupid drunk in a frat house or in the company of some MSU football players. Yeah, she should, no sh*t sherlock. Not relevant.

Sorry, if it is not the PC answer. But, it is accurate. Does she DESERVE it to be out there ABSOLUTELY NOT. Still, I guess I was taught differently. I was taught that if you don't think things through and make stupid decisions, to EXPECT consequences. To me, this situation is a much more OBVIOUS no-brainer mistake that screamed these consequences.

1.) IF, she knew who Downey was before hand.
2.) IF, she willingly performed an act that no matter how natural it is will always make a woman look bad.
3.) IF, she willingly let him tape her doing that act.

She didn't deserve what happened, but if she was that dumb I don't feel she is a victim.

Here is an analogy:

You drive into a neighborhood that has a high theft rate. You get out of your car and leave it running with the keys in the car. Should anyone have stolen it? Absolutely not. Do you feel bad for the idiot that left his car running? I would hope not.

 

[MSU158]

It should affect your opinion as to whether he would be a good fit for a specific program. What happens if Downey posts another bj video while on the team? You don't think people are going to complain loudly that Tom and the university looked the other way on allowing a known offender of such things into the program? Good coaches get fired for poor judgement like that. There are repercussions to the university and coaches if things go south, such as claims that the institution is soft on sexual crimes, etc. Just say NO.

I am sure they have rules for this and he would absolutely deserve to be canned if he did it. There should be a different set of rules for him to follow when he actually represents a University.

 

[sstark46]

MSU, your take is a very thin line away from "she was asking to be raped because of what she was wearing". It is the wrong take. You are putting the blame on the victim and not on the person who was actually in the wrong.

 

[Pennstate1985]

I am sure they have rules for this and he would absolutely deserve to be canned if he did it. There should be a different set of rules for him to follow when he actually represents a University.

Why would a coach and/or an AD ever risk their jobs for the likes of Pat Downey? They can invoke all the rules they want on PDIII, but if he did something like that again, someone is being fired for using poor judgement. For what, an extra 10-15 points at nationals to finish 3rd instead of 4th? That's the definition of unreasonable risk.

 

[IAChief32]

Troll Rating = 9 out of 10. Even Jammenz would be proud of this effort

Right? Are we the only ones that can appreciate the work Don is putting in on DT. Nitlion sure didn't.

 

[dicemen99]

Sorry, if it is not the PC answer. But, it is accurate. Does she DESERVE it to be out there ABSOLUTELY NOT. Still, I guess I was taught differently. I was taught that if you don't think things through and make stupid decisions, to EXPECT consequences. To me, this situation is a much more OBVIOUS no-brainer mistake that screamed these consequences.

1.) IF, she knew who Downey was before hand.
2.) IF, she willingly performed an act that no matter how natural it is will always make a woman look bad.
3.) IF, she willingly let him tape her doing that act.

She didn't deserve what happened, but if she was that dumb I don't feel she is a victim.

Here is an analogy:

You drive into a neighborhood that has a high theft rate. You get out of your car and leave it running with the keys in the car. Should anyone have stolen it? Absolutely not. Do you feel bad for the idiot that left his car running? I would hope not.

Again, not relevant. She's not the one being judged here, Downey is. And your take basically uses her judgement to minimize his actions. You're trying to insert specific conditions that don't matter and only serve your argument. But those conditions still don't impact his actions.

The justice system is going to deal with that car thief the same way whether the car was left running or not.

 

[OILCHECKER]

"Here is an analogy:

You drive into a neighborhood that has a high theft rate. You get out of your car and leave it running with the keys in the car. Should anyone have stolen it? Absolutely not. Do you feel bad for the idiot that left his car running? I would hope not."

In your analogy, does the video of the theft get posted to the internet? If it does and you eventually take it down, only later to repost it to further humiliate and torment the car owner is that okay? Also, in your scenario, although it would suck to have your car stolen, you likely have insurance and it gets replaced and sometime down the road you have a good story to tell your friends and laugh about. I don't think that will ever be the case with this girl (who I agree made a poor decision in the first place).

 

[SPOONER]

Sorry, if it is not the PC answer. But, it is accurate. Does she DESERVE it to be out there ABSOLUTELY NOT. Still, I guess I was taught differently. I was taught that if you don't think things through and make stupid decisions, to EXPECT consequences. To me, this situation is a much more OBVIOUS no-brainer mistake that screamed these consequences.

1.) IF, she knew who Downey was before hand.
2.) IF, she willingly performed an act that no matter how natural it is will always make a woman look bad.
3.) IF, she willingly let him tape her doing that act.

She didn't deserve what happened, but if she was that dumb I don't feel she is a victim.

Here is an analogy:

You drive into a neighborhood that has a high theft rate. You get out of your car and leave it running with the keys in the car. Should anyone have stolen it? Absolutely not. Do you feel bad for the idiot that left his car running? I would hope not.

If you have daughters I feel awful for them. You seem like the kind of guy who thinks if a chick dresses scantily, raping them is justified.

She agreed to have it filmed. She didn't agree that anyone other than the 2 of them should see it. And to make it even more disgusting, he put it BACK ONLINE later just to piss her off. He's trash.

 

[SPOONER]

"Here is an analogy:

You drive into a neighborhood that has a high theft rate. You get out of your car and leave it running with the keys in the car. Should anyone have stolen it? Absolutely not. Do you feel bad for the idiot that left his car running? I would hope not."

In your analogy, does the video of the theft get posted to the internet? If it does and you eventually take it down, only later to repost it to further humiliate and torment the car owner is that okay? Also, in your scenario, although it would suck to have your car stolen, you likely have insurance and it gets replaced and sometime down the road you have a good story to tell your friends and laugh about. I don't think that will ever be the case with this girl (who I agree made a poor decision in the first place).

That was a terrible analogy.

 

[MSU158]

Why would a coach and/or an AD ever risk their jobs for the likes of Pat Downey? They can invoke all the rules they want on PDIII, but if he did something like that again, someone is being fired. For what, an extra 10-15 points at nationals to finish 3rd instead of 4th? That's the definition of unreasonable risk.

I haven't said I am for Downey going there. I don't have the information I would need to make that type of decision. Maybe the Iowa coaching staff has gotten to know him and feel he can stay straight in their system? I don't have that info.

Do I agree he is a risk? Definitely. Do I think he is a good guy? His track record says otherwise. But, people can eventually grow up. From behind a computer screen, I don't really know either way.

 

[MSU158]

If you have daughters I feel awful for them. You seem like the kind of guy who thinks if a chick dresses scantily, raping them is justified.

She agreed to have it filmed. She didn't agree that anyone other than the 2 of them should see it. And to make it even more disgusting, he put it BACK ONLINE later just to piss her off. He's trash.

Completely false. One is a ridiculous crime that can NEVER be justified. The other isn't even illegal. For the 5th time, I am saying he is a "DICK" for doing so and she didn't "deserve" it. I simply said that stupidity has consequences.

Insurance policies are designed as much to protect you from your own stupidity as they are from accidents. Life isn't built that way.

Also, I think the car analogy is spot on. Both are completely idiotic mistakes that put you in a spot that no good could come from it. At best, you come back and your car is still there. At best, he never releases the video. But, the odds are that the car is gone and the odds are that if a guy records something like that, it is for the purposes of watching/showing it.

 

[MSU158]

MSU, your take is a very thin line away from "she was asking to be raped because of what she was wearing". It is the wrong take. You are putting the blame on the victim and not on the person who was actually in the wrong.

Is reading comprehension really lost on this many? First off RAPE and this are NOT comparable in any way, shape or form. Second, I didn't blame her and said the act was wrong. I simply said I don't feel bad for her. Stupidity DOES have consequences.

Finally, to be crystal clear, saying I don't feel bad for someone that willing lets that be recorded with it ending up being available for people to view, is in NO WAY remotely similar to ANYTHING justifying any act similar to, let alone, rape itself.

 

[DirkTang1]

He was posting videos on his Snapchat of him driving around drinking beer and dancing around to music. He hasn't changed one bit.

 

[sstark46]

Second, I didn't blame her and said the act was wrong. I simply said I don't feel bad for her. Stupidity DOES have consequences.

Saying her "stupid" actions led to these consequences is blaming her for these consequences happening, as if it's a complete given that every single video like this made will always be shown without consent. This is victim blaming at its very core.

 

[Wiltz01]

Well now PD2 is on themat defending PD3. telling people to go back in their caves. LOL

 

[MSU158]

Saying her "stupid" actions led to these consequences is blaming her for these consequences happening, as if it's a complete given that every single video like this made will always be shown without consent. This is victim blaming at its very core.

Then I guess we have a different viewpoint on reality. Blaming her means it is her fault. It is not. It is all on Downey. What I am saying is that she did something monumentally stupid, that is easily avoided. As a result, I don't feel bad for her in this case. Distinct difference.

Another way to be CRYSTAL CLEAR: Does she deserve(blame correlates to this word) it? No. Do I feel bad for her(stupidity correlates here)? No.

 

[Jts1990]

If you have daughters I feel awful for them. You seem like the kind of guy who thinks if a chick dresses scantily, raping them is justified.

She agreed to have it filmed. She didn't agree that anyone other than the 2 of them should see it. And to make it even more disgusting, he put it BACK ONLINE later just to piss her off. He's trash.

The more I hang around and read your stuff the more I like you. Great post!

 

[IAChief32]

Now I don't know snapchat from a gingersnap and I agree that any guy who posts stuff like this is a douche but at what point do we start having people taking responsibility for their own actions? We talk a good game but equality just doesn't factor in when it comes to a paycheck. We don't know anything about this gal. Did she know she was being filmed. If not, rant away because I think that is against the law. However, performing sexual acts on Pat Downey, while he has a camera pointed at you (which is consent for both sex and privacy issues it can be argued)...this is not a recipe for anything good. Or maybe she is proud of her sexuality and doesn't give a rip what you or I think.

So morally and ethically, we can ask:

Was she of consenting age?
Did she know about the camera?
Did she consent to the act itself?
Was she nude or partly clothed?
Did she have the mental capacity to understand both the act and being filmed?

If any of these are no, then Downey should be charged.

I am an old fashioned guy. I open doors for women, if I were dating...I would pay for dinner...not brag about conquests...all that good stuff. It's easy to show our moral outrage at a DBag like Downey but then a sexual act takes two consenting adults. Unless you are Mike T I think if we are going to take equal rights seriously, we need to stop treating women like they are the less intelligent or naive part of the equation...they are not. So what Downey did may or may not have been against the law, but it was a dick move and he shouldn't be a Hawk.

 

[lookleft goright]

Sheesh guys. Overreacting. I didn't say it was right or justifiable. In fact I called him a "dick" for doing it. I simply said I don't feel bad for her and don't see how him posting the video automatically makes him a bad teammate.

I have a 2 year old daughter by the way and I love her with all of my heart. I would never want her to go through that. But, MY JOB is to educate her enough for her not to be DUMB ENOUGH to let someone video tape her doing that. I would hope she will have enough character to avoid doing it to someone like him in the first place, but at least know better than to let it get recorded.

THAT IS MY POINT. She was dumb enough to do it, so I don't feel bad for her and him showing it off doesn't effect my opinion either way on whether or not he would be a good wrestler for Iowa.

Does compassion ever enter your train of thought. May be the girl was or felt pressured. Maybe she was drunk and got caught up int he moment. Whatever the case, she was not happy with it being posted and anyone who posts that kind of thing needs help. People make foolish decisions in the heat of the moment. The video was not posted in the heat of a moment.

Maybe everyone has learned from the situation and they won't make the same mistake again. But lets not call the girl dumb etc.
If PD3 would ever start putting out some apologies that were sincere, I could see the Brands taking a chance on him. So far, I have never heard of an apology coming from him for anything.

 

[MSU158]

Now I don't know snapchat from a gingersnap and I agree that any guy who posts stuff like this is a douche but at what point do we start having people taking responsibility for their own actions? We talk a good game but equality just doesn't factor in when it comes to a paycheck. We don't know anything about this gal. Did she know she was being filmed. If not, rant away because I think that is against the law. However, performing sexual acts on Pat Downey, while he has a camera pointed at you (which is consent for both sex and privacy issues it can be argued)...this is not a recipe for anything good. Or maybe she is proud of her sexuality and doesn't give a rip what you or I think.

So morally and ethically, we can ask:

Was she of consenting age?
Did she know about the camera?
Did she consent to the act itself?
Was she nude or partly clothed?
Did she have the mental capacity to understand both the act and being filmed?

If any of these are no, then Downey should be charged.

I am an old fashioned guy. I open doors for women, if I were dating...I would pay for dinner...not brag about conquests...all that good stuff. It's easy to show our moral outrage at a DBag like Downey but then a sexual act takes two consenting adults. Unless you are Mike T I think if we are going to take equal rights seriously, we need to stop treating women like they are the less intelligent or naive part of the equation...they are not. So what Downey did may or may not have been against the law, but it was a dick move and he shouldn't be a Hawk.

Which is damn near exactly what I meant by what I posted. I have always treated women with respect and always will. Feeling bad for my daughter because I don't feel bad for this girl is laughable and completely baseless. I would never do anything like what Downey did and in no way condone it. I simply don't feel bad for people that make very stupid decisions. I have paid for plenty of stupid decisions in my time, even if the cost was higher than I thought it should be.

 

[MSU158]

Does compassion ever enter your train of thought. May be the girl was or felt pressured. Maybe she was drunk and got caught up int he moment. Whatever the case, she was not happy with it being posted and anyone who posts that kind of thing needs help. People make foolish decisions in the heat of the moment. The video was not posted in the heat of a moment.

Maybe everyone has learned from the situation and they won't make the same mistake again. But lets not call the girl dumb etc.
If PD3 would ever start putting out some apologies that were sincere, I could see the Brands taking a chance on him. So far, I have never heard of an apology coming from him for anything.

My responses have all been acting under the assumptions that she was fully willing to have it filmed at the time. Obviously, anything less than that is criminal.

Also, to me, a girl EVER letting a guy film that act is STUPID. The possible negative results far outweigh anything good that can come from it.

 

[IAChief32]

Which is damn near exactly what I meant by what I posted. I have always treated women with respect and always will. Feeling bad for my daughter because I don't feel bad for this girl is laughable and completely baseless. I would never do anything like what Downey did and in no way condone it. I simply don't feel bad for people that make very stupid decisions. I have paid for plenty of stupid decisions in my time, even if the cost was higher than I thought it should be.

Mine is more a philosophical, devil's advocate "as a society" argument. You can still feel bad for someone who makes a mistake....as the gal did in this situation.

Have that talk with your sons and daughters. Anything that you do that is being filmed is going to end up on the internet.

 

[ih8iast8]

Sorry, if it is not the PC answer. But, it is accurate. Does she DESERVE it to be out there ABSOLUTELY NOT. Still, I guess I was taught differently. I was taught that if you don't think things through and make stupid decisions, to EXPECT consequences. To me, this situation is a much more OBVIOUS no-brainer mistake that screamed these consequences.

1.) IF, she knew who Downey was before hand.
2.) IF, she willingly performed an act that no matter how natural it is will always make a woman look bad.
3.) IF, she willingly let him tape her doing that act.

She didn't deserve what happened, but if she was that dumb I don't feel she is a victim.

Here is an analogy:

You drive into a neighborhood that has a high theft rate. You get out of your car and leave it running with the keys in the car. Should anyone have stolen it? Absolutely not. Do you feel bad for the idiot that left his car running? I would hope not.

It doesn't matter whether she deserved it or not. Governor Branstadt already signed revenge porn legislation before he left his governor position. You can't post this type of stuff wothout consent to post it electronically. IT IS A CRIME!

 

[Chickenman Testa]

He was posting videos on his Snapchat of him driving around drinking beer and dancing around to music. He hasn't changed one bit.

Hey, if you're going to share the road with PD3, you're consenting to his antics. Don't like it? Don't drive.

 

[nearfall2]

[/QUOTE]Also, in your scenario, although it would suck to have your car stolen, you likely have insurance and it gets replaced and sometime down the road you have a good story to tell your friends and laugh about. I don't think that will ever be the case with this girl (who I agree made a poor decision in the first place).[/QUOTE]

Insurance does not pay in that situation. You leave the key in the car and someone takes it you are no longer insured for theft or damage from that theft. Happened to my brother. He collected $0 on a Wrangler they beat the crap out of and left in a corn field where it had finally broken down.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Thread should be deleted in my opinion no need to be discussing this on a wrestling message board. No way in hell will PD111 wrestle for U of Iowa.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Thread should be deleted in my opinion no need to be discussing this on a wrestling message board. No way in hell will PD111 wrestle for U of Iowa.

I really hope that PD3 can straighten out and make better use of his talent as a wrestler. However, I suspect he has better odds of ending up here than Iowa:

 

[crablegs1]

 

[SPOONER]

Now I don't know snapchat from a gingersnap and I agree that any guy who posts stuff like this is a douche but at what point do we start having people taking responsibility for their own actions? We talk a good game but equality just doesn't factor in when it comes to a paycheck. We don't know anything about this gal. Did she know she was being filmed. If not, rant away because I think that is against the law. However, performing sexual acts on Pat Downey, while he has a camera pointed at you (which is consent for both sex and privacy issues it can be argued)...this is not a recipe for anything good. Or maybe she is proud of her sexuality and doesn't give a rip what you or I think.

So morally and ethically, we can ask:

Was she of consenting age?
Did she know about the camera?
Did she consent to the act itself?
Was she nude or partly clothed?
Did she have the mental capacity to understand both the act and being filmed?

If any of these are no, then Downey should be charged.

I am an old fashioned guy. I open doors for women, if I were dating...I would pay for dinner...not brag about conquests...all that good stuff. It's easy to show our moral outrage at a DBag like Downey but then a sexual act takes two consenting adults. Unless you are Mike T I think if we are going to take equal rights seriously, we need to stop treating women like they are the less intelligent or naive part of the equation...they are not. So what Downey did may or may not have been against the law, but it was a dick move and he shouldn't be a Hawk.

You forgot something that's just a little important:

Did she consent to anyone other than her and Downey viewing the video? Did she consent to the world being shown the video?

There's no crime in consensually filming yourself in a sex act. As soon as it is shown to the world an intimate trust has been violated. Taunting someone with it crossed even another line.

The whole situation is just more evidence that Downey is a POS.

 

[SPOONER]

Completely false. One is a ridiculous crime that can NEVER be justified. The other isn't even illegal. For the 5th time, I am saying he is a "DICK" for doing so and she didn't "deserve" it. I simply said that stupidity has consequences.

Insurance policies are designed as much to protect you from your own stupidity as they are from accidents. Life isn't built that way.

Also, I think the car analogy is spot on. Both are completely idiotic mistakes that put you in a spot that no good could come from it. At best, you come back and your car is still there. At best, he never releases the video. But, the odds are that the car is gone and the odds are that if a guy records something like that, it is for the purposes of watching/showing it.

Revenge porn is most definitely illegal. And even if it weren't, it is a low life move.

 

[HoundedHawk]

It wouldn't just be one person. It wouldn't just be him but also those who made the call--the ones running the program.

I'm not sure what you're referencing in my post, but, whatever it is, I agree, lol.

 

[SPOONER]

The more I hang around and read your stuff the more I like you. Great post!

Though I do not accept your endorsement, I am pretty cool. Ask anyone.

 

[Onceafish]

Sorry, if it is not the PC answer. But, it is accurate. Does she DESERVE it to be out there ABSOLUTELY NOT. Still, I guess I was taught differently. I was taught that if you don't think things through and make stupid decisions, to EXPECT consequences. To me, this situation is a much more OBVIOUS no-brainer mistake that screamed these consequences.

1.) IF, she knew who Downey was before hand.
2.) IF, she willingly performed an act that no matter how natural it is will always make a woman look bad.
3.) IF, she willingly let him tape her doing that act.

She didn't deserve what happened, but if she was that dumb I don't feel she is a victim.

Here is an analogy:

You drive into a neighborhood that has a high theft rate. You get out of your car and leave it running with the keys in the car. Should anyone have stolen it? Absolutely not. Do you feel bad for the idiot that left his car running? I would hope not.

I've noticed that "PC" is often used as a synonym for "decent" by people who would rather not be held to that standard.

 

[pablow]

From the just posted Spencer Lee interview, speaking about his Hawk teamates -

“I have a twin sister. I trust these guys with my sister. … At the same time, they’re going to put your head through a wall if you’re not working hard. And that’s what I want. That’s what we’re here for. We’re here to get better. This atmosphere is what I was looking for in a college.”
​

PD3 does not fit in at Iowa.

 

[IAChief32]

From the just posted Spencer Lee interview, speaking about his Hawk teamates -

“I have a twin sister. I trust these guys with my sister. … At the same time, they’re going to put your head through a wall if you’re not working hard. And that’s what I want. That’s what we’re here for. We’re here to get better. This atmosphere is what I was looking for in a college.”
​

PD3 does not fit in at Iowa.

I would be seriously disappointed if Tom went that route. I would be shocked if it happened.

 

[Jts1990]

Though I do not accept your endorsement. .

Would have been a huge disappointment if you had...