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Fix to 125

I’ll take Spencer’s true freshman season out to help the comparison (as some have argued it’s not fair to include his losses as a true freshman when so many PSU guys redshirted).

When I do, he’s 61-3 with two losses to Seabass and a loss to Picininni. Great wrestlers, but neither made an NCAA final let alone win an NCAA Championship.

Ruth was 136-3. Taylor was 134-3. Retherford (who did start as a true freshman) was 126-3. Nickal was 120-3. Nolf was 117-3. Brooks is 55-3. Starocci is 45-2.

56 of Spencer’s 61 wins (91.8%) since his freshman year have been by bonus and I expect that % will only grow higher the rest of this season. But 125 of Taylor’s 134 (93.3%) wins were by bonus.

Taylor lost only to Jenkins (NCAA champ) and Dake (4x NCAA Champ)

Nolf lost only to IMAR (2x NCAA champ) and by injury default.

We’re comparing greatness to greatness; they’re all great. But maybe this helps explain why some PSU fans put Spencer with the PSU guys mentioned above instead of above them.

All that being said, if Spencer wins his 4th title this year, he’ll also likely end up 2nd (and prob at worst 4th) in all-time NCAA tournament scoring. If that happens, he’ll have added significantly to his resume as compared to the above-mentioned PSU greats.
 
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mcpat said:
I’ll take Spencer’s true freshman season out to help the comparison (as some have argued it’s not fair to include his losses as a true freshman when so many PSU guys redshirted).

When I do, he’s 61-3 with two losses to Seabass and a loss to Picininni. Great wrestlers, but neither made an NCAA final let alone win an NCAA Championship.

Ruth was 136-3. Taylor was 134-3. Retherford (who did start as a true freshman) was 126-3. Nickal was 120-3. Nolf was 117-3. Brooks is 55-3. Starocci is 45-2.

56 of Spencer’s 61 wins (91.8%) since his freshman year have been by bonus and I expect that % will only grow higher the rest of this season. But 125 of Taylor’s 134 (93.3%) wins were by bonus.

Taylor lost only to Jenkins (NCAA champ) and Dake (4x NCAA Champ)

Nolf lost only to IMAR (2x NCAA champ) and by injury default.

We’re comparing greatness to greatness; they’re all great. But maybe this helps explain why some PSU fans put Spencer with the PSU guys mentioned above instead of above them.

All that being said, if Spencer wins his 4th title this year, he’ll also likely end up 2nd (and prob at worst 4th) in all-time NCAA tournament scoring. If that happens, he’ll have added significantly to his resume as compared to the above-mentioned PSU greats.
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Rewind to 2021 when all the PSU fans were here telling us the team title wasn’t important, it was all about their guys winning titles at 141 and 174 against our Hawks. Now this guy is trying to convince everyone Spencer’s 4 titles (assumed as if he doesn’t win this whole discussion is moot) aren’t more important than DT’s 2 or the others’ 3. Give me a break. Where will the goalposts be next?
 
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mcpat said:
I’ll take Spencer’s true freshman season out to help the comparison (as some have argued it’s not fair to include his losses as a true freshman when so many PSU guys redshirted).

When I do, he’s 61-3 with two losses to Seabass and a loss to Picininni. Great wrestlers, but neither made an NCAA final let alone win an NCAA Championship.

Ruth was 136-3. Taylor was 134-3. Retherford (who did start as a true freshman) was 126-3. Nickal was 120-3. Nolf was 117-3. Brooks is 55-3. Starocci is 45-2.

56 of Spencer’s 61 wins (91.8%) since his freshman year have been by bonus and I expect that % will only grow higher the rest of this season. But 125 of Taylor’s 134 (93.3%) wins were by bonus.

Taylor lost only to Jenkins (NCAA champ) and Dake (4x NCAA Champ)

Nolf lost only to IMAR (2x NCAA champ) and by injury default.

We’re comparing greatness to greatness; they’re all great. But maybe this helps explain why some PSU fans put Spencer with the PSU guys mentioned above instead of above them.

All that being said, if Spencer wins his 4th title this year, he’ll also likely end up 2nd (and prob at worst 4th) in all-time NCAA tournament scoring. If that happens, he’ll have added significantly to his resume as compared to the above-mentioned PSU greats.
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I’ve changed my mind, DT was psu’s best. Don’t care that he only won 2 titles. He was simply better. Losing to dake every time is borderline shocking. He was just as good as dake IMO. I look at HOW a guy wrestles and judge him accordingly. I don’t mind a few losses. Even Carl would’ve lost a match or two to someone like dake. When it came to wrestling though, DT was better than the other psu wrestlers. I think Spencer is a better wrestler when even close to healthy. DT was/is just as skilled if not more so, currently. Spencer will have his time.
 
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IRONBIRD said:
NO ONE you mentioned won the NCAAs as a true freshman(pretty sure Dake took a grey shirt?)- nor could they! NONE wrestled with a serious injury, had they, they would not have been able to win NCAAs! LEE injured his knee in HS, had it fixed, several months to recover, and in less then a year was back on the mat. He then went on to WIN the NCAAs!!!

I would love to hear you tell me of ANYONE EVER who has and/or could even consider trying that???

IF any of them hurt BOTH of their knees, it is very unlikely that they would have even wrestled? Had they gave it a try. It is very unlikely that they could have gotten through their qualifying Tournament.

Say they were able to qualify for the NCAAs. Do you even think for 1 second that ANY of them could have even placed more or less WIN!!! The answer is hell NO!!!!

and again, I would love for you to tell me about ANYONE EVER even trying it???? Just name ONE person with 2 torn acls. (I actually knew a kid Wrestling with to bad knees in college. It got very ugly very fast!!)

It is somewhat sad that some do not understand they are watching probably the GREATEST Wrestler of their lifetimes. GOD willing, he will be fully healed and you will all get to see what this monster is all about!
Click to expand...
I had four knee surgeries in college. I have no clue how Spencer did it. The pain is excruciating.
 
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moug said:
Rewind to 2021 when all the PSU fans were here telling us the team title wasn’t important, it was all about their guys winning titles at 141 and 174 against our Hawks. Now this guy is trying to convince everyone Spencer’s 4 titles (assumed as if he doesn’t win this whole discussion is moot) aren’t more important than DT’s 2 or the others’ 3. Give me a break. Where will the goalposts be next?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure you read my last paragraph.
 
moug said:
Then why bother with this 5 loss rather than 3 loss analysis in non-NCAA competition. It’s rather meaningless.
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I’m not trying to be argumentative, but does only the tournament matter? That’s fine if you think so. But isn’t that what everyone is complaining about now?

I think I’m more impressed by Cael going 159-0 than his winning 4 NCAA titles and being the all-time leader in tournament team points scored.
 
mcpat said:
I’m not trying to be argumentative, but does only the tournament matter? That’s fine if you think so. But isn’t that what everyone is complaining about now?

I think I’m more impressed by Cael going 159-0 than his winning 4 NCAA titles and being the all-time leader in tournament team points scored.
Click to expand...
It is one of if not the most impressive things ever done in college wrestling…I reserve a vote for Robles’ championship and a couple of other achievements. I think very few on here don’t give Carl his due for what he has done. I’ll slime his career by saying he had easy competition and that he lost to jenn in redshirt but 159-0 is crazy. But **** Carl, back to arguing about psu and Iowa wrestlers.
 
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Iowabandwagon said:
I’ve changed my mind, DT was psu’s best. Don’t care that he only won 2 titles. He was simply better. Losing to dake every time is borderline shocking. He was just as good as dake IMO. I look at HOW a guy wrestles and judge him accordingly. I don’t mind a few losses. Even Carl would’ve lost a match or two to someone like dake. When it came to wrestling though, DT was better than the other psu wrestlers. I think Spencer is a better wrestler when even close to healthy. DT was/is just as skilled if not more so, currently. Spencer will have his time.
Click to expand...
In the spirit of Flo having Fix above Spencer in their recruiting rankings, I have 2 title Gabe Dean ahead of a 4xer Spencer (if he wins) because Gabe Dean had better loses (Ruth and Nickal) than Spencer.

Dean must be better than DT too. Clearly Nickal and Ruth are better loses than Bubba.

All in good fun:)
 
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moug said:
In the spirit of Flo having Fix above Spencer in their recruiting rankings, I have 2 title Gabe Dean ahead of a 4xer Spencer (if he wins) because Gabe Dean had better loses (Ruth and Nickal) than Spencer.

Dean must be better than DT too. Clearly Nickal and Ruth are better loses than Bubba.

All in good fun:)
Click to expand...
Don’t forget the bad wins….
 
Iowabandwagon said:
This is a discussion about who is better. Nothing to do with the NCAA, dildo. He was gifted a win. Sorry that was one of your greats but it’s true. I love nolf. Known him since he was a kid. He’s one of my favorite wrestlers to watch ever but I don’t consider him better than Spencer Lee. But in psu land 3 titles is better than
Click to expand...
You claim you have known Nolf since he was a kid yet you think he would just folded after giving up a single takedown? This didn't happen in o.t. or at the end of the 3rd period, there was plenty of time for him to come back and win. Lee just turned around an 8-1 deficit in less than a period but Nolf couldn't come back 1 point??
 
mcpat said:
Nolf had more wins by Fall or Tech Fall than Spencer has wins (of any kind).
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
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Flying_Tiger said:
You claim you have known Nolf since he was a kid yet you think he would just folded after giving up a single takedown? This didn't happen in o.t. or at the end of the 3rd period, there was plenty of time for him to come back and win. Lee just turned around an 8-1 deficit in less than a period but Nolf couldn't come back 1 point??
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Yep. Nolf scored one takedown in 7 minutes. Yes, I think that score at the end of the first making 2-0 would’ve been enough especially considering hidlay escaped in like 5 seconds when underneath. If nolf can’t horse you, he struggles. See imar, hidlay and dake. He’s terrific but the bulls give him fits.
 
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Iowabandwagon said:
Yep. Nolf scored one takedown in 7 minutes. Yes, I think that score at the end of the first making 2-0 would’ve been enough especially considering hidlay escaped in like 5 seconds when underneath. If nolf can’t horse you, he struggles. See imar, hidlay and dake. He’s terrific but the bulls give him fits.
Click to expand...
That’s an interesting take, actually. IMAR did say (after Nolf pinned him in their first outing) that no one had figured out how to wrestle Nolf. He then won their next two meetings, in SV and by a point.

Hidlay definitely presented Nolf with some problems that one match, although Nolf had beaten him on one leg in the NCAA final the year before.

As for Dake… we’re talking now about freestyle and a 2x world champ. I see Nolf vs Dake like Dake vs Burroughs. It’s going to take time. The gap has definitely narrowed, though.
 
mcpat said:
That’s an interesting take, actually. IMAR did say (after Nolf pinned him in their first outing) that no one had figured out how to wrestle Nolf. He then won their next two meetings, in SV and by a point.

Hidlay definitely presented Nolf with some problems that one match, although Nolf had beaten him on one leg in the NCAA final the year before.

As for Dake… we’re talking now about freestyle and a 2x world champ. I see Nolf vs Dake like Dake vs Burroughs. It’s going to take time. The gap has definitely narrowed, though.
Click to expand...
Imar being humble
Yes, hidlay was a problem that match
Dake is dake

Nolf is a great wrestler and even better person. I’ll give him the courtesy that isn’t extended to Spencer on bwi and leave it at that.
 
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Inspiteofourselves said:
He is a senior, just has a year of eligibility left due to covid.
2018 Red Shirt
2019 2nd
2020 Olympic Year(PED year)
2021 2nd
2022 2nd
2023 ?
2024?
Click to expand...

They should revoke his Olympic redshirt. He suffered exactly 0 penalty for cheating/taking PEDs. Same goes for his dad and Chris Perry..
 
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Fix wrestled 133 Sunday:
133 - Daton Fix (Oklahoma State) maj Jason Shaner (Oregon State) 12-4
 
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Spicolli said:
Fix wrestled 133 Sunday:
133 - Daton Fix (Oklahoma State) maj Jason Shaner (Oregon State) 12-4
Click to expand...
That, in itself, wouldn't tell you anything. The key is what he weighed in at. Theoretically, he SHOULD be wrestling at 133, or not wrestling at all, until his decent plan would allow him to weigh in at 125.

So, the key would be, when did he last weight in at or near 133? From that point, there would be a very specific week to week weigh-in point he would need follow, or not wrestle until he officially waited the amount of time specified before he could weigh in at 125 or below based on what weight he certified at...

edited for clarity: "weighed in at" means what exactly did he weigh during that weigh in. So, even though he would still be wrestling 133, his weight could gradually get closer to 125, while still competing at 133, based on the NCAA sanctioned decent plan for his alpha weigh in certification.
 
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mcpat said:
That’s an interesting take, actually. IMAR did say (after Nolf pinned him in their first outing) that no one had figured out how to wrestle Nolf. He then won their next two meetings, in SV and by a point.

Hidlay definitely presented Nolf with some problems that one match, although Nolf had beaten him on one leg in the NCAA final the year before.

As for Dake… we’re talking now about freestyle and a 2x world champ. I see Nolf vs Dake like Dake vs Burroughs. It’s going to take time. The gap has definitely narrowed, though.
Click to expand...
You really think Nolf is going to unseat Dake at 74kg? Like actually think that? Dake and Burroughs are at a different echelon of freestyle.
 
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Iowabandwagon said:
I’ve changed my mind, DT was psu’s best. Don’t care that he only won 2 titles. He was simply better. Losing to dake every time is borderline shocking. He was just as good as dake IMO. I look at HOW a guy wrestles and judge him accordingly. I don’t mind a few losses. Even Carl would’ve lost a match or two to someone like dake. When it came to wrestling though, DT was better than the other psu wrestlers. I think Spencer is a better wrestler when even close to healthy. DT was/is just as skilled if not more so, currently. Spencer will have his time.
Click to expand...
Taylor was NOT as good as Dake. Dake proved this many times!
 
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FRL this morning said Fix did certify at 125 but has not started a descent with his weigh ins.
I really hope this happens, but in my opinion, same talk, different year.
Fix isn't winning a National Championship at 125 or 133.
I guess he can pick between having a close competitive match with RBY or getting worked by Spencer.
 
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Exo said:
You really think Nolf is going to unseat Dake at 74kg? Like actually think that? Dake and Burroughs are at a different echelon of freestyle.
Click to expand...
Yes. Eventually. He’s a lot younger and age beats everyone eventually.
 
Being beatable during the regular season and then NOT being remotely beatable during the NCAA Tournament should be looked at quite differently than those that actually DID lose at the NCAA Tournament.

With all the injuries Spencer has gone through, he just isn't the guy you would choose if you are looking for a 35ish-0(per season) guy for 4 seasons. Guys like Metcalf are a VERY rare breed, ALWAYS being ready to wrestle at or, atleast, very near their best, at the drop of a hat. Hell, even Nolf had an injury shortened season.

Still, when the rubber hits the road, I don't think there has EVER been anyone you truly would pick over Spencer at NCAA's except Cael and maybe Dake. Even though Steiber and Smith won 4x's, they looked vulnerable at least a couple of matches at NCAA's.

If Lee runs through NCAA's again like he has EVERY season, he belongs in the conversation with Dake as the #2 all time behind Cael...
 
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Grip220 said:
Taylor was NOT as good as Dake. Dake proved this many times!
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I think he was as skilled and dake was a matchup problem. Just like I think dake was as good as Burroughs except his first go when he was still wet behind the ears. And the qualifying matches hold weight in my book no matter what burroughs says. Just my opinion.
 
T8KUDWN said:
FRL this morning said Fix did certify at 125 but has not started a descent with his weigh ins.
I really hope this happens, but in my opinion, same talk, different year.
Fix isn't winning a National Championship at 125 or 133.
I guess he can pick between having a close competitive match with RBY or getting worked by Spencer.
Click to expand...
I'm sure Spencer is capable of winning but the "I really hope this happens" take is odd. I would just as soon see what might be the only shot for a 4 timer for Iowa any time soon have less of a hill to climb considering his medical situation.
 
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mcpat said:
Nolf actually did win a title on a torn ACL,
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This isn't true. If I remember correctly, Nolf suffered an LCL injury and had six weeks to heal before NCAAs.

While still very impressive, it's not even close to the same as competing without your ACLs.

“Really, it’s not as bad as we feared.”

Those words from Penn State wrestling coach Cael Sanderson, in regards to a knee injury suffered Sunday by returning national champion Jason Nolf, were music to the ears of Penn State wrestling fans.

www.blackshoediaries.com

Nolf Aiming For Postseason Return

Jason Nolf’s leg appears to be still attached to his body. So, now what?
www.blackshoediaries.com www.blackshoediaries.com
 
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