Does the space bar somehow take your humor to the next level?
Even for a lurker like me, that is weak.
Fix to 125
- Thread starter Inspiteofourselves
- Start date
Even for a lurker like me, that is weak.
The 2018 bracket was loaded with 4 former and/or future NCAA champs: Spencer, Suriano, Tomasello, and Darian Cruz. Not to mention the rest of the field and the solid AA's that filled it out. And Lee throttled 2 Champs to win it.
By my recollection Nickal is the only to face any former and/or future champs: Myles Martin and Max Dean. If I'm missing anyone then chime in.
Also, only one, Nolf, has a higher bonus rate, which Lee could pass by seasons end.
Additionally, we've NEVER seen anyone throw up points like we have with Lee. Never. His point total is absurd and something we may never see again and it's caused several guys to abandon the weight. He can only wrestle who's in front of him and if everyone is bailing then give him credit.
Lastly, of everyone on your list, Lee and Dake are the only ones to start as true freshman.
I still consider those guys to be all time greats, but if you're going to be hyper-critical then don't cherry pick the criteria and over evaluate a single pin.
NO ONE you mentioned won the NCAAs as a true freshman(pretty sure Dake took a grey shirt?)- nor could they! NONE wrestled with a serious injury, had they, they would not have been able to win NCAAs! LEE injured his knee in HS, had it fixed, several months to recover, and in less then a year was back on the mat. He then went on to WIN the NCAAs!!!
I would love to hear you tell me of ANYONE EVER who has and/or could even consider trying that???
IF any of them hurt BOTH of their knees, it is very unlikely that they would have even wrestled? Had they gave it a try. It is very unlikely that they could have gotten through their qualifying Tournament.
Say they were able to qualify for the NCAAs. Do you even think for 1 second that ANY of them could have even placed more or less WIN!!! The answer is hell NO!!!!
and again, I would love for you to tell me about ANYONE EVER even trying it???? Just name ONE person with 2 torn acls. (I actually knew a kid Wrestling with to bad knees in college. It got very ugly very fast!!)
It is somewhat sad that some do not understand they are watching probably the GREATEST Wrestler of their lifetimes. GOD willing, he will be fully healed and you will all get to see what this monster is all about!
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Dake was a true freshman when he won his first
Yianni won one of his titles on a torn ACL. An injury sustained in the same tournament he won
Nolf lost to IMar twice as a freshman and then has an injury default loss. That’s it. In 2018 Spencer had a great weight that he won but overall 157 is absolutely deeper than 125. Nolf beat Hidlay, Kemerer, Berger, Pantaleo, Deakin, Jordan, Wentzel, Walsh, Lavallee, Realbuto, and he pinned IMar as well. Berger, Jordan, Wentzel, Kemerer, Hidlay, Lavallee, and Realbuto all made the national finals while Deakin won a national title and IMar won 2. Plus Nolf still has a higher bonus rate at this point. He obviously didn’t win 4 but his career is better than Spencer’s. Fewer losses, never got pinned, deeper weight, and higher bonus at a deeper weight. Nolfs record is 118-3 for a win percentage of 97.5 and that includes an injury default loss. Spencer is 84-5. The only thing he will have over Nolf is a 4th title and that hasn’t happened yet. 125 this year is also one of the weakest weights we’ve seen in a long time
Yep, and he seems to be pretty good too, hence the shock at him losing this year. Does Dake, Nolf, or even Cael win titles with one or no ACLs? I highly doubt it, but we will never know so arguing about it is stupid. Lee is one of the best ever. That is all!
Dake winning it without a grey shirt and at 4 different weights would certainly put him in the conversation as the best ever in the modern era. He also beat Taylor which may have been about the best 2 finalists you may ever see.
Hard to argue with the great Kale at 159-0. A record that may never be broken.
Yes Yanni did tear his ACL in the Tournament and went on to win. Unreal as that is, he did not have a previous injury that would have effected his training. Certainly no one would think he could have won with two bad knees!
The only thing he'll have over him is an additional championship? Hahaha okay, bub.
If Spencer gets #4 you'd be out of your ****ing mind trying to claim Nolf had a better career. That's called denial.
Do you know many have 3 titles? 50.
How many have 4? I'll wait while you do the math.
It's interesting that you value a loss via pin more than you do a championship.
If SL doesn’t win the title this year then I can see the argument he’s right there with Zain, Bo and Nolf as dominate 3x NC with blemishes.
If he wins his 4th NC I think a strong case can be made to put him ahead of Dake. I mean I get it that Dake did something special but we could see SL finish his career with 4 titles, 3 Hodges, and first ever 100% bonus Pt season. On 1 ACL, no ACL’s and bilateral reconstructed ACL’s. Dake wrestled a lot of close matches. Not many ever see the 3rd period against Lee or heck even the 2nd period.
Time will tell.
Like I wrote Nolf will also have a better record, fewer losses, better bonus in a deeper weight. What will Spencer have besides 1 more title? And less we forget, Spencer hasn’t won his 4th yet. I hope he stays healthy and wins his 4th. I think he’s incredible. Just not the GOAT
Nolfs blemishes are 2 losses to a 2 time champ 4 time finalist as a freshman who he also pinned. That’s it. His only blemishes. Spencer lost to multiple people with none of them being as good as IMar and he got decked. Nolf also wrestled about 30 more matches at a deeper weight and as of today has a higher bonus rate which is supposed to be Spencer’s main calling card. I know it’s hard for you guys to be objective about your deity Spencer but please look at the actual stats
NOT a deeper weight. Spencer’s were tougher for 2/3 ships. In general, yes it’s usually a tougher weight class but look at 157 this year. It’s the weakest. And you’re forgetting that nolf should’ve lost to hidlay which would’ve made him a 2x champ. That’s a big blemish in my book. Bo nickal has a better argument for the time being…Until spencer wins 4.
"Greatest" arguments are always ridiculous - they're just opinions, that's all. Recency bias usually plays a big part in the arguments (Nolf, Lee, Dake, Taylor, etc). I suggest that you take time to read the bios of Wrestling Hall of Fame members, guys like Dan Gable, Dan Hodge, Yojiro Uetake, Bill Koll, Lowell Lange, Henry Wittenberg, Robin Reed and many others.
Contrary to the Bill Parcells quote, I don't consider only records, but many other factors. Don't forget that Gable won "only" 2 NCAAs, and Pat Smith won 4, but I doubt anyone would rank Smith above Gable. Personally, I might rank Reed at the top of my list, with Uetake, Lange and the two Dan's following close behind. No one in the past 20 years ranks anywhere near these guys (my opinion).
Contrary to the Bill Parcells quote, I don't consider only records, but many other factors. Don't forget that Gable won "only" 2 NCAAs, and Pat Smith won 4, but I doubt anyone would rank Smith above Gable. Personally, I might rank Reed at the top of my list, with Uetake, Lange and the two Dan's following close behind. No one in the past 20 years ranks anywhere near these guys (my opinion).
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There’s been so much talk of this and I THINK it all originates from this dude posting a thread on the Facebook group the scramble that said, “Fix Thinking About Dropping To 125 for Big 12’s 🤫.” That’s the first place I recall reading this news and I am not sure if the dude who posted it intended for it to be a joke or not. 🤷♂️
Fix would be freaking idiotic to do that… I mean, does the dude really want to end his college career being miserable from cutting his ass off, just to be rolled up and thrown around like the fur-ball he is by Mighty Mouse? Doesn’t sound wise to me. Or in the slightest bit worth the trouble.
Fix would be freaking idiotic to do that… I mean, does the dude really want to end his college career being miserable from cutting his ass off, just to be rolled up and thrown around like the fur-ball he is by Mighty Mouse? Doesn’t sound wise to me. Or in the slightest bit worth the trouble.
If you are honestly talking about all time greats, how has Gable Steveson not been brought up?
Two Championships and an Olympic Gold Medal in 3 years of competition. I know you guys consider Lee generational however there is a legitimate argument he would only rank 3rd out of his recruiting class.
I'll show myself out now.
Two Championships and an Olympic Gold Medal in 3 years of competition. I know you guys consider Lee generational however there is a legitimate argument he would only rank 3rd out of his recruiting class.
I'll show myself out now.
So if it is only championships that count, when Starroci wins his fifth, everyone will admit he is the GOAT? 😏
I could probably force myself to admit that he’s a mountain goat… probably not without puking though. And don’t you even dare complain about that, for mountain goats are actually pretty cool.
Outright Hodge winner too, until the committee decided to fudge the numbers.
Not sure on this once SL wins out scoring bonus in every match!?!?!
He lost to Hilday as everyone including Nolf knows! Was a crime along the lines of that other guy over at Ohio st!!!
SO glad that someone else posted and knows about these older wrestlers. What they did is somewhat unbelievable. Robin Reed stands out the most to me. Not only could he beat EVERYONE in college, but also the world. Think about someone in Woods, or Murins weight class beating Stevenson! Well this guy did it and he would PIN most of them too!
Now many will dismiss as "that was then" well "then was when he lived and wrestled! Like Babe Ruth hitting more HRs then entire teams, why was no one else able to even come close!
Very unusual circumstances. The NCAA screwed up like they often do. Took Seniors year away, added a year to underclassmen. In no way will anyone ever be able to explain this to be right to me.
That being said, you probable never heard of Carlton??? He has SIX!!!
Oh wow..the NCAA needs to include this category henceforth…
Wins
Losses
Should Have Losses
Really doesn’t make sense, he’s never done it and would basically be cutting to 125 the rest of the year.
He is a senior, just has a year of eligibility left due to covid.
2018 Red Shirt
2019 2nd
2020 Olympic Year(PED year)
2021 2nd
2022 2nd
2023 ?
2024?
He’ll be getting calls from AARP like Kemdawg before he leaves ok st
You had to not be wrestling the Covid year and be in college the next year. I believe Starocci is the only person left that could be a 5 timer.
I think only freshman the year of Covid would be eligible for that.
2022- med redshirt for Lee
2021- third title
2020- Covid
2019 - 2nd title
2018- true fresh 1st title.
UGH! Really?! I thought I only had one more year of belly-aching about the mere possibility of him winning an NCAA Title… 😠
Who can we count on to beat him next year?!
This is a discussion about who is better. Nothing to do with the NCAA, dildo. He was gifted a win. Sorry that was one of your greats but it’s true. I love nolf. Known him since he was a kid. He’s one of my favorite wrestlers to watch ever but I don’t consider him better than Spencer Lee. But in psu land 3 titles is better than 4.
Spencer has 4 titles? Or do predicted accolades get counted in “Iowa land” as having actually already occurred?
Everything in this discussion is imaginary. Except bitch being a dildo. He really is.
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