Fix to 125

[sstark46]

Just some numbers for Spencer's dominance....

Since his last loss to Seabass in the B1G finals in 2019, he is on a 41 match win streak. He has gotten bonus points in 36 of those matches.

Of the 5 non-BP victories, 3 of them were by 7 points, so very close to bonus. The other 2 were by 5 points; one of these matches was in an NCAA finals match where he tore his ACL, and the other match was during what would become his medical redshirt year when he wrestled one weekend without getting either ACL repaired

Truth is, no one has been close to Spencer the last almost 4 calendar years, to the point that if he doesn't win by a big enough Major Decision, everyone starts wondering what's wrong with him. Level of competition aside, those are dominating stats.

 

[82bordeaux]

having fun.

I'm calling for an immediate Ban Hammer!

 

[82bordeaux]

I won’t offer any negative thoughts on where Spencer stands all-time on an Iowa board. But I’ll defend his so-called lack of a legit challenger when, as a true freshman, he pinned NATO in the semis and then beat Suriano, a 2-time champ who won at both 125 and 133, in the finals.

Additionally, while he didn’t have to face SeaBass in the 2019 tourney, he was in the bracket.

McSelzer (sorry, couldn't resist!);
I started the discussion by stating the weights have been a little weak post 2019.
I have stated that Spencer is an all-time great.
I have stated that the perceived lack of competition is biased due to his greatness.
I only opined that he doesn't make the Mt Rushmore of NCAA wrestling because he will end up with 5 losses against less than 100 wins.
Google Bill Parcells and his quote, "you are what your record says you are". He explains it better than I ever could.

 

[Herkuleez5]

Well I guess since you're making the point, Lee actually lost 5 times. Those other guys didn't. And just to further cover the bases, Taylor lost 3 times. Once to an NCAA champion and twice to a 4 time NCAA Champion. Zain lost 3 times his freshman year. Twice to a 4 time NCAA Champion, and once to Mitchell Port (kind of a Ronnie Bresser type). Nolf lost 3 times. Twice as a freshman to a 3 time NCAA Champ and one injury default.
So all things being equal...well, they're just not.

Not going to get into the pissing match of who is right and who is wrong but I dont think Ronnie Bresser was close to Mitchell Port. Bresser barely made all american where Port finished 2nd and 3rd.

 

[HawkAlum2002]

Not going to get into the pissing match of who is right and who is wrong but I dont think Ronnie Bresser was close to Mitchell Port. Bresser barely made all american where Port finished 2nd and 3rd.

But if Spencer was wrestling attached that match and could get a replay review, he more than likely (can never be sure how they'll review it) doesn't lose that match. Just like the B10 final to Rivera, if they hadn't had the one year deal with the automatic point for hitting the face, he doesn't go to OT in that one and wins in regulation. A couple of odd circumstances in those two particular matches which just highlights how close the margin was even when he lost.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Take it for what it’s worth but I’m being told it was decided over the holidays and it is happening. I’m sure plans can change, but I’m being told the drop is in progress.

 

[IRONBIRD]

I'll take that action.

Ok, I have VITO who you have? You want rby and give me odds, or would you rather do 2 weight classes where I will take Spencer Lee?

@IRONBIRD with 6 consecutive posts in 22 minutes. Nice work.

It feels good to blow one's lungs out. Spencer probably appreciates your joining him there, in addition to your unwavering support.

YES, I believe he does!

 

[82bordeaux]

Ok, I have VITO who you have? You want rby and give me odds, or would you rather do 2 weight classes where I will take Spencer Lee?

YES, I believe he does!

I'll give you Spencer and Vito against the field in both. $50 to HWC or NLWC?

 

[mcpat]

McSelzer (sorry, couldn't resist!);
I started the discussion by stating the weights have been a little weak post 2019.
I have stated that Spencer is an all-time great.
I have stated that the perceived lack of competition is biased due to his greatness.
I only opined that he doesn't make the Mt Rushmore of NCAA wrestling because he will end up with 5 losses against less than 100 wins.
Google Bill Parcells and his quote, "you are what your record says you are". He explains it better than I ever could.

(I’m Chris Rock in this gif)

 

[Herkuleez5]

But if Spencer was wrestling attached that match and could get a replay review, he more than likely (can never be sure how they'll review it) doesn't lose that match. Just like the B10 final to Rivera, if they hadn't had the one year deal with the automatic point for hitting the face, he doesn't go to OT in that one and wins in regulation. A couple of odd circumstances in those two particular matches which just highlights how close the margin was even when he lost.

First off I am a hawk fan through and through and I know I gave 82Bordeaux a stronger argument but in the end Bresser is not Port. Big F'N deal. Zain losing 3 times to SL's 5 times, hoping it ends that way, in college is not going to make me think SL is not special. Of course he is. The entire BS of this guy is better because of this and that is all OPINION. Different eras, different weights, different opponents etc. Its like arguing who is the best QB or hitter in BB is. GTFO of here with that.

 

[82bordeaux]

First off I am a hawk fan through and through and I know I gave 82Bordeaux a stronger argument but in the end Bresser is not Port. Big F'N deal. Zain losing 3 times to SL's 5 times, hoping it ends that way, in college is not going to make me think SL is not special. Of course he is. The entire BS of this guy is better because of this and that is all OPINION. Different eras, different weights, different opponents etc. Its like arguing who is the best QB or hitter in BB is. GTFO of here with that.

 

[jmadden1998]

 

[MVPFAN]

I'm with you on 133 82, I see no way Vito beats Fix or RBY.

Agree, he barely beat the ASU guy the other night.

 

[js8793]

Agree, he barely beat the ASU guy the other night.

eh, vito is always hot or cold. he also beat mcgee soundly 6-1 at cklv. at his peak, i think vito can go with those guys.

just look at his postseason last year. goes from nearly teching pat glory to losing to him handily a week and a half later lol. you just don't know who you'll get.

 

[82bordeaux]

eh, vito is always hot or cold. he also beat mcgee soundly 6-1 at cklv. at his peak, i think vito can go with those guys.

just look at his postseason last year. goes from nearly teching pat glory to losing to him handily a week and a half later lol. you just don't know who you'll get.

Patrick Glory was coming off a pretty nasty illness when he was whooped by Vito.

 

[lookleft goright]

First off I am a hawk fan through and through and I know I gave 82Bordeaux a stronger argument but in the end Bresser is not Port. Big F'N deal. Zain losing 3 times to SL's 5 times, hoping it ends that way, in college is not going to make me think SL is not special. Of course he is. The entire BS of this guy is better because of this and that is all OPINION. Different eras, different weights, different opponents etc. Its like arguing who is the best QB or hitter in BB is. GTFO of here with that.

I totally agree. David Taylor would be in the conversation if Dake had never gotten into his weight class. If we compared results, everyone would have said Taylor would win. It just never happened that way. I prefer to just admire the guys and appreciate what they can do and of course brag about the fact that none of them have ever scored a point against me, much less taken me down - Spencer included!!

 

[ChiPackHawk]

Patrick Glory was coming off a pretty nasty illness when he was whooped by Vito.

But that doesn't apply to Lee? Hmmm?

 

[82bordeaux]

But that doesn't apply to Lee? Hmmm?

Sure it does. It's always a factor. However, I would not change the way I view Glory's career based on that fact.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I was joking a bit, but There is no denying what happened and that his father was involved.

And Chris Perry.

 

[82bordeaux]

And Chris Perry.

Only up to his eyeballs.

 

[ChiPackHawk]

Sure it does. It's always a factor. However, I would not change the way I view Glory's career based on that fact.

I understand, but you could point to Lee losing to Rivera and Piccininni later in 2019 after he too was coming off/dealing with a pretty serious illness. That leaves a questionable loss to Bressler, 2-1 to Nato, and a loss to Rivera at Midlands in late December of 2018 where he may have been dealing with the illness then too. Not sure if it was ever determined if it was Lyme disease, mono or whatever. Irrelevant at this time. While you are what your record says you are, some times there can be a reason for it.

 

[LaxHawk174]

I understand, but you could point to Lee losing to Rivera and Piccininni later in 2019 after he too was coming off/dealing with a pretty serious illness. That leaves a questionable loss to Bressler, 2-1 to Nato, and a loss to Rivera at Midlands in late December of 2018 where he may have been dealing with the illness then too. Not sure if it was ever determined if it was Lyme disease, mono or whatever. Irrelevant at this time. While you are what your record says you are, some times there can be a reason for it.

Just wanted to point out that his B1G loss to Rivera was that BS hands to the face loss. That loss plus the Bresser loss have always bugged me.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Just wanted to point out that his B1G loss to Rivera was that BS hands to the face loss. That loss plus the Bresser loss have always bugged me.

And the NW coaches threw a ****ing challenge brick to steal the point as well if I'm remembering right? That match has a huge asterisks. One of the worst rules in the history of college wrestling.

 

[IRONBIRD]

I'll give you Spencer and Vito against the field in both. $50 to HWC or NLWC?

Wait, I got SL coming off major surgery to both knees and Vito ranked what 3-4? You get the field!?!? You have to pick your guys!

 

[johnstownsteel]

Wait, I got SL coming off major surgery to both knees and Vito ranked what 3-4? You get the field!?!? You have to pick your guys!

You seemed confident Lee and Vito will be champions this year. He is obviously saying no. So what's your gripe?

 

[12tdsaw]

guess that wine guy needs someone to wipe his butt

 

[johnstownsteel]

guess that wine guy needs someone to wipe his butt

I'm not doubting you. Clearly something an asswipe could easily spot..

 

[el dub]

I'm not doubting you. Clearly something an asswipe could easily spot..

Always wise to defer to those with professional experience. Like, note the glove above…

 

[82bordeaux]

Wait, I got SL coming off major surgery to both knees and Vito ranked what 3-4? You get the field!?!? You have to pick your guys!

I'll take RBY and Glory. Your bird may be made of iron, but I'll have to be the one with steel balls.

 

[Sett1997]

I understand, but you could point to Lee losing to Rivera and Piccininni later in 2019 after he too was coming off/dealing with a pretty serious illness. That leaves a questionable loss to Bressler, 2-1 to Nato, and a loss to Rivera at Midlands in late December of 2018 where he may have been dealing with the illness then too. Not sure if it was ever determined if it was Lyme disease, mono or whatever. Irrelevant at this time. While you are what your record says you are, some times there can be a reason for it.

The Picc loss was a fluke, he got caught, plain and simple.

 

[lookleft goright]

And the NW coaches threw a ****ing challenge brick to steal the point as well if I'm remembering right? That match has a huge asterisks. One of the worst rules in the history of college wrestling.

I think the hands to the face is a good rule. It just took some time for the wrestlers to adapt to it. The last thing we need to see is guys pushing and punching each other in the face. that is not wrestling and it is not setting up any moves.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Your bird may be made of iron, but I'll have to be the one with steel balls.

Oh boy. First it was swords and now it's genitalia.

 

[MVPFAN]

I think the hands to the face is a good rule. It just took some time for the wrestlers to adapt to it. The last thing we need to see is guys pushing and punching each other in the face. that is not wrestling and it is not setting up any moves.

The way the rule was done that season was shit. That's why they stopped doing it that way.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Oh boy. First it was swords and now it's genitalia.

Yesterday it was Raccoons......






And an elephant.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Someone should tell Vito Ironbird is his guy...

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I think the hands to the face is a good rule. It just took some time for the wrestlers to adapt to it. The last thing we need to see is guys pushing and punching each other in the face. that is not wrestling and it is not setting up any moves.

You realize they changed the rule immediately after one season because it was abused right? Fix/Okie state tried to steal an NCAA finals match that way and the rules committee realized it was a huge mistake.

 

[SeamusGQuaker]

Say what you want but I've never seen Iowa fans wish and hope more than they do nowadays. Vito is solid, but he just lost to Latona. Come on. It certainly comes off as sour grapes to compare his folkstyle work with RBY. You should reflect on the "big" match with the outcome tonight vs Illinois and wonder what is wrong and what can be corrected. I've been there as a coach and wrestler at a high level and can tell you that the introspection right now is key for them. Find what can improve upon and the health of Spencer is the most minor part of that equation.

 

[IRONBIRD]

You seemed confident Lee and Vito will be champions this year. He is obviously saying no. So what's your gripe?

Very confident in LEE, just my pic at 33.

I'll take RBY and Glory. Your bird may be made of iron, but I'll have to be the one with steel balls.

OK

Someone should tell Vito Ironbird is his guy...

He already knows!

 

[zzs006]

McSelzer (sorry, couldn't resist!);
I started the discussion by stating the weights have been a little weak post 2019.
I have stated that Spencer is an all-time great.
I have stated that the perceived lack of competition is biased due to his greatness.
I only opined that he doesn't make the Mt Rushmore of NCAA wrestling because he will end up with 5 losses against less than 100 wins.
Google Bill Parcells and his quote, "you are what your record says you are". He explains it better than I ever could.

5 losses and the only one of the top guys to get decked. Getting pinned is a huge deal and definitely lowers Spencer in the GOAT debate. He’s obviously great and should probably bonus his way to a title this year unless Fix does go down but he is undoubtedly behind Cael and Dake and right there with Zain, Bo , and Nolf. Those 3 wrestled tougher weights, had fewer losses, and never got pinned. I really hope Fix does go down because I match between him and Spencer would be incredible.

 

[el dub]

5 losses and the only one of the top guys to get decked. Getting pinned is a huge deal and definitely lowers Spencer in the GOAT debate. He’s obviously great and should probably bonus his way to a title this year unless Fix does go down but he is undoubtedly behind Cael and Dake and right there with Zain, Bo , and Nolf. Those 3 wrestled tougher weights, had fewer losses, and never got pinned. I really hope Fix does go down because I match between him and Spencer would be incredible.

Meh….