Iowa school voucher scam update: Private schools raising tuition up to 40%. Special ed services to public schools will have a 30 million dollar cut

[RileyHawk]

Well on the non-Christian part...Dowlings numbers reported in thar report say 7% non Catholic. So obviously they do accept students that do not share the same faith. Granted I do not see many people that are not into the faith wanting to send their kids there. Funny thing is the faith part is going to cost some extra money.

And it is not my number, the 12k, come straight from their budget overview.

A student being from a poor family or not is not relevant...the state and local community is paying their way to public school.

Just saying 12k goes much farther, with much better results, than what is paid for publicly.

I have been running these types of numbers going on 30 years. When I first got involved in political campaigns it was in education and the politics of it. The typical private school budget has always been less than the public schools. Yes there are some crazy high end private schools that even wealthy people cannot afford...but those are not the norm.

WTF? You realize that "non-Catholic" is not the same as non-Christian, right?

It is the number you reported. SMFH

A student being from a poor family is relevant because they don't have the choice to go to Dowling. A kid from a well-to-do family is much more likely to have that choice - that is if they are not someone who needs special education or non-Christian.

The point that you are either ignoring or too dumb to see is that $12K SHOULD go a lot further when you hand pick the students you are willing to accept.

That you have been doing this as a method of propaganda for political purposes is not a surprise. That you're so bad at it is.

 

[hexumhawk]

I am not anti public education. Not one bit.

21,396 per non special ed student.

Say we give Tom and 4 of his buddies $200,000 a year to teach 100 students....each has 20 at a time. Between the 5 going to be able to pretty much have enough knowledge in English, Math, History, etc to teach them.

At 21,396 that would give Tom and buddies a budget of 2,139,600 for those 100 students

Take off a million for the salaries. Now down to 1,139,600.

They need a building. Give em 300,000 a year to use to either rent...or probably smart to just go buy something way bigger than they need for a few million and use the 300,000 to pay it off in a few years.

Down to 839,000.

Utilities...200,000 in the budget.

639,000

It would be a very local school...so probably not much bussing needed...but throw in 100,000 for any transportation needs, field trips, etc

539,000

Textbooks...let's go online versions to save money, and just easier to carry a laptop than 10 textbooks. Say they want 10 textbooks for each student. Around $100 a piece. That's 100,000.

439,000

Not much admin, but some. Person should have a sub license as well. 50,000

389,000

Need laptops. 100 students. Staff...40,000

349,000

Students need to be fed. Linked below, and those services are in Cali, but figure if you can get delivered school meals in San Fran for 6 bucks, you can in Iowa City. 170 school days x 100 students × 6 = 102,000

247,000

Maintenance/Janitor 50,000

197,000

Some start up costs...student desks 20,000

177,000

Teacher/office desks 5,000

172,000

Footballs, basketballs, softballs, bats, flags, cones, and a whistle for Tom ... 20,000

152,000


Chalkboards, projectors, filling cabinents, and many other start up purchases. 50,000

102,000

So we have spent almost half the budget on the teachers, where is should go, and have a first year surplus of 102,000. With another 200,000 in start up costs. Textbooks will need to be updated every once in awhile depending on the subject, but not all that often. Some laptops will need to be replaced every year for new students or broken/lost ones. Broken/lost ones should be on the student to some extent.

So going forward surplus is around 300,000. Buy the building and after 10 years or so the surplus is now 600,000.


I am sure I missed costs...I am also sure I over budgeted on the building and utilities.


Point is, the money is there. It has always been there. Just so much of it disappears on stuff that is not in the classroom.

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This is a prefect parallel with our current federal "budget crisis". The money is there, how they spend it is the bigger issue.

 

[RileyHawk]

Here is a hard numbers comparison.

Iowa City Community Schools.

Enrollment: 14,440
Budget: $318,846,417

Per Student: $22,081

Special Ed Students make up 10% of the enrollment. Obviously they are very loose on what they consider special ed...but whatever 10%.

They dedicate 3.1% of the budget to special ed....ten million. That actually seems ridiculously low to me....I would think higher.

So that is $685 taken off the budget for the other 90%.

Per Student not Special Ed: $21,396


The issue has never been if there is enough money....but where it is being spent.

Iowa City Community School District sees high special education balance deficit, requests additional aid

After reporting a high deficit in the special education balance for the 2021-22 academic year, the Iowa City Community School District is seeking additional aid with approval from the school board. The board of directors approved the request to seek additional growth and aid at the Sept. 27...

dailyiowan.com

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://go.boarddocs.com/ia/iccsd/Board.nsf/files/CQ6GLK4456C7/%24file/Executive%2520Summary%25202023-24.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj16ov8s9z-AhXMPEQIHWaZDBQQFnoECCYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3hGUGF7lBXwD80nF0ANkXT

Lol - your article states the Special Education DEFICIT increased to almost $10M.

You are terrible at this.

 

[gohawks50]

Is this Richardson legit? I like to share this info with my representative. I know he hates me. But I am respectful but also tell the truth.

I know Randy personally. He was a goverment teacher, then became an AEA person, and finished up his career with ISEA. He's always been politically active and he knows his stuff. He can get a little too concerned about issues sometimes, but his information is usually very accurate.

 

[hexumhawk]

Correct, it's a racket the public school system in Iowa is way too top heavy with overpaid administrators. Diocese schools have little to zero administrators and those they have are paid pennies on the dollar compared to their public schools counterparts.

Private schools raising tuition still will not exceed the cap being set by the state for the per pupil tuition assistance.

This whole thread is much ado about nothing.

This is why they are freaking out. They have been the only widget store in a town. They no longer understand the concept of actual dollars and budgeting like a business.

 

[RileyHawk]

They indeed did raise tuition. Tuition is still virtually free for this fall if you meet income qualifications. In a few years, it’s free for anyone regardless of income

Free for everyone who wants to attend? They will accept everyone?

 

[ZachJump]

You realize that "non-Catholic" is not the same as non-Christian, right?

Not to serious Catholics. I should start going to a Catholic church, the few times I went when I had no choice got a great workout from all the stand up, kneel, sit, stand up, kneel, stand up, sit, stand up, kneel, repeat for 87 more sets.

A student being from a poor family is relevant because they don't have the choice to go to Dowling.

If you have not caught on to what my though process is...then here....public schools have enough money right now that they should be able to provide the same level of education that a school like Dowling does.

That you have been doing this as a method of propaganda for political purposes is not a surprise. That you're so bad at it is.

My question for you is... what is my propaganda? What am I advocating that you think is wrong?

I got no problem with you having a different view point...need different view points in society for us to grow us a society....but what is my viewpoint that you find so abhorrent?

 

[RileyHawk]

I am not anti public education. Not one bit.

21,396 per non special ed student.

Say we give Tom and 4 of his buddies $200,000 a year to teach 100 students....each has 20 at a time. Between the 5 going to be able to pretty much have enough knowledge in English, Math, History, etc to teach them.

At 21,396 that would give Tom and buddies a budget of 2,139,600 for those 100 students

Take off a million for the salaries. Now down to 1,139,600.

They need a building. Give em 300,000 a year to use to either rent...or probably smart to just go buy something way bigger than they need for a few million and use the 300,000 to pay it off in a few years.

Down to 839,000.

Utilities...200,000 in the budget.

639,000

It would be a very local school...so probably not much bussing needed...but throw in 100,000 for any transportation needs, field trips, etc

539,000

Textbooks...let's go online versions to save money, and just easier to carry a laptop than 10 textbooks. Say they want 10 textbooks for each student. Around $100 a piece. That's 100,000.

439,000

Not much admin, but some. Person should have a sub license as well. 50,000

389,000

Need laptops. 100 students. Staff...40,000

349,000

Students need to be fed. Linked below, and those services are in Cali, but figure if you can get delivered school meals in San Fran for 6 bucks, you can in Iowa City. 170 school days x 100 students × 6 = 102,000

247,000

Maintenance/Janitor 50,000

197,000

Some start up costs...student desks 20,000

177,000

Teacher/office desks 5,000

172,000

Footballs, basketballs, softballs, bats, flags, cones, and a whistle for Tom ... 20,000

152,000


Chalkboards, projectors, filling cabinents, and many other start up purchases. 50,000

102,000

So we have spent almost half the budget on the teachers, where is should go, and have a first year surplus of 102,000. With another 200,000 in start up costs. Textbooks will need to be updated every once in awhile depending on the subject, but not all that often. Some laptops will need to be replaced every year for new students or broken/lost ones. Broken/lost ones should be on the student to some extent.

So going forward surplus is around 300,000. Buy the building and after 10 years or so the surplus is now 600,000.


I am sure I missed costs...I am also sure I over budgeted on the building and utilities.


Point is, the money is there. It has always been there. Just so much of it disappears on stuff that is not in the classroom.

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Check out the deal on Ten Apex Series Double Student Desks & Twenty 14" Apex Chairs at Schools In

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Your math is so fundamentally flawed that nothing you state can be taken seriously. Not that it could if your math was correct, it just makes your arguments even more absurd.

 

[ZachJump]

Your math is so fundamentally flawed that nothing you state can be taken seriously. Not that it could if your math was correct, it just makes your arguments even more absurd.

Cool

What is flawed about it?

 

[RileyHawk]

No idea. Even if in my fictional example if they had to go out and buy 4 busses and get drivers....there would be enough money, and still have almost half the budget going to the teachers.

Fiction is a good way to describe your example. Everything about it is fiction.

 

[ZachJump]

Fiction is a good way to describe your example. Everything about it is fiction.

Well yes.

We agree on something.

Anything not real, including realistic numbers like I posted, would be fiction.

Still waiting for you to explain what is so far off in the fictional numbers I posted. I got no problem being shown I am a dumbass...happens. But your generic telling me I am so wrong when you have specifics you could point to is rather useless in teaching me why I am wrong

 

[RileyHawk]

Not to serious Catholics. I should start going to a Catholic church, the few times I went when I had no choice got a great workout from all the stand up, kneel, sit, stand up, kneel, stand up, sit, stand up, kneel, repeat for 87 more sets.



If you have not caught on to what my though process is...then here....public schools have enough money right now that they should be able to provide the same level of education that a school like Dowling does.



My question for you is... what is my propaganda? What am I advocating that you think is wrong?

I got no problem with you having a different view point...need different view points in society for us to grow us a society....but what is my viewpoint that you find so abhorrent?

JFC - you're just babbling now. Dowling is not going to accept those that they know are non-Christians. And they don't have to. THEY get the choice - not the student/parents.

Your comparison of budgets between public and private schools is woefully flawed for the reasons that have been pointed out. Not the least of which is your inability to decipher simple financial statements.

Whether you admit it or not, you are advocating for public funding of private schools and I find that abhorrent in addition to your foolish arguments.

 

[theiacowtipper]

This is why they are freaking out. They have been the only widget store in a town. They no longer understand the concept of actual dollars and budgeting like a business.

What makes you think school administrators can't and don’t budget. Public employees budget all the time and often the budgets are stricter and more set in stone than private companies.

 

[RileyHawk]

Cool

What is flawed about it?

As I said, ICCSD has a $10M DEFICIT for Special Education. That's not the budget. If it were the per student budget would be about $7,000 for the 10% of total enrollment that represent Special Education students ($10M/1444). It's absurd.

From the article you linked:

The funding for special education, however, is less than what is needed to provide the required programs, which results in deficits in a large majority of Iowa schools, Finger wrote.

“For the year ending June 30, 2021, over 82 percent of Iowa schools incurred a special education deficit with a net statewide deficit balance of nearly $135,000,000,” he wrote.

 

[tumorboy]

Your math is so fundamentally flawed that nothing you state can be taken seriously. Not that it could if your math was correct, it just makes your arguments even more absurd.

I'd like to know if the numbers for Dowling are legit? Have they been audited. How much are they leaning on the student population to cover other expenses. How many of the students have private tutors. A more affluent population will have more individual one on one learning opportunities. I'm befuddled that folks think they are comparing a Chevy to a Ford. When in reality it's a Chevy to a Mercedes.

 

[DooBi]

What a great blanket cop out.

Let me take this thinking a step further…

Wtf you think you are? A textbook? Oh, wait, you actually are a textbook? Pshh. Well wtf does that matter anyway? I mean, you're just a book with text in it written by somebody who feels all entitled n shit to write a textbook. Doesn't mean anybody should learn anything from you, you dumb textbook…

Dude, anything to protect your fragile little ego.

Fuçking hilarious.

Holy shit. Lol

You learning from a textbook written by an anonymous author that isn't using his real name? Lol

And you guys call other people dumb. Sheesh.

 

[win4jj]

If public school teachers would do their job and quit praising Bernie Sanders and the Squad all of the time then the state wouldn’t have to do vouchers. Teachers brought this on themselves. Public school teachers have the biggest egos of anyone. They want power and control of people and the best way for that is a classroom of young kids. So they can spew their bullcrap on them.

None of this is even remotely true.

 

[Pete Malloy]

As I said, ICCSD has a $10M DEFICIT for Special Education. That's not the budget. If it were the per student budget would be about $7,000 for the 10% of total enrollment that represent Special Education students ($10M/1444). It's absurd.

From the article you linked:

The funding for special education, however, is less than what is needed to provide the required programs, which results in deficits in a large majority of Iowa schools, Finger wrote.

“For the year ending June 30, 2021, over 82 percent of Iowa schools incurred a special education deficit with a net statewide deficit balance of nearly $135,000,000,” he wrote.

Special Ed students need to go to public school, those schools are the experts in educating and facilitating special ed students.

It's not a case of the private schools don't want them it's a case of they are no equiped to handle them.

 

[ZachJump]

JFC - you're just babbling now. Dowling is not going to accept those that they know are non-Christians. And they don't have to. THEY get the choice - not the student/parents.

Your comparison of budgets between public and private schools is woefully flawed for the reasons that have been pointed out. Not the least of which is your inability to decipher simple financial statements.

Whether you admit it or not, you are advocating for public funding of private schools and I find that abhorrent in addition to your foolish arguments.

Yes I was babbling in that one.

Yes I dont care who gets the money as long as the kid gets taught...at the end of the day that is what I care about.

The only reason I ever talk about private school money in this topic they typically do more with less. Yes I know they have built in advantages.

I have never not advocated for public schools. I will always advocate for public schools to figure it out. I do believe that pretty much everyone in the public school system is there for the right reasons. I have spent years in and out of public schools as an adult...loved all the people. Will always say I never really understood walking into a school and there are 15 people just that I see doing admin work. I have seen schools were there were people whose entire job was to track down truant students since their budget is based on attendance....I mean seriously we are using money that should be going to teachers to pay people to get butts in the seat so they get the money for the student being there.

 

[ZachJump]

Lol - your article states the Special Education DEFICIT increased to almost $10M.

You are terrible at this.

Yea...that one I screwed up. What I get for just looking for a number and skimming. Damnit.

 

[RileyHawk]

Yes I was babbling in that one.

Yes I dont care who gets the money as long as the kid gets taught...at the end of the day that is what I care about.

The only reason I ever talk about private school money in this topic they typically do more with less. Yes I know they have built in advantages.

I have never not advocated for public schools. I will always advocate for public schools to figure it out. I do believe that pretty much everyone in the public school system is there for the right reasons. I have spent years in and out of public schools as an adult...loved all the people. Will always say I never really understood walking into a school and there are 15 people just that I see doing admin work. I have seen schools were there were people whose entire job was to track down truant students since their budget is based on attendance....I mean seriously we are using money that should be going to teachers to pay people to get butts in the seat so the get the money for the student being there.

You've been babbling all along with bad arguments based on bogus analysis. Private schools generally do better than the average public schools but there are many public schools that are on par, or even better, than their private counterparts. That's also due to demographics, primarily. Public schools in affluent areas do better than those in poor areas. Why? Well, the students have a better foundation overall is one thing. Another is property tax funding going to the schools - higher price property = more taxes to that school district. So you have a combination of better funding and a higher percentage of motivated, capable students vs. much lower funding and a higher percentage of lower performing, special needs, problematic students.

Your position of private schools doing more with the $$ they have is as wrong as it is simplistic.

 

[ironside1]

Yes I was babbling in that one.

Yes I dont care who gets the money as long as the kid gets taught...at the end of the day that is what I care about.

The only reason I ever talk about private school money in this topic they typically do more with less. Yes I know they have built in advantages.

I have never not advocated for public schools. I will always advocate for public schools to figure it out. I do believe that pretty much everyone in the public school system is there for the right reasons. I have spent years in and out of public schools as an adult...loved all the people. Will always say I never really understood walking into a school and there are 15 people just that I see doing admin work. I have seen schools were there were people whose entire job was to track down truant students since their budget is based on attendance....I mean seriously we are using money that should be going to teachers to pay people to get butts in the seat so they get the money for the student being there.

Maybe we could move some “truant” students to the private schools?

 

[RileyHawk]

Yea...that one I screwed up. What I get for just looking for a number and skimming. Damnit.

And then basing numerous arguments on it. If you're going to enter a discussion like that at least take the time to check out your supporting data and double check your analysis to avoid looking so foolish.

 

[ZachJump]

And then basing numerous arguments on it. If you're going to enter a discussion like that at least take the time to check out your supporting data and double check your analysis to avoid looking so foolish.

Didn't base any argument on it. Was looking for it because that is a go to in the conversation and damnit Changed a number based on it...yes...wasn't part of my point of view.

I screwed that one up. Got no problem admitting that.

 

[Joes Place]

Ok...in my fictional budget what did I leave out?

LOLWUT?

You just admitted there were costs to public education for services that private schools do not provide.

 

[Joes Place]

Well yes.

We agree on something.

Anything not real, including realistic numbers like I posted

You just stated they were "fictional" numbers.

Now, they are "realistic"?

 

[Joes Place]

Special Ed students need to go to public school,

Why?

 

[ZachJump]

Your position of private schools doing more with the $$ they have is as wrong as it is simplistic.

I like simplicity. The one thing I have learned in life is anything that isn't simple is wasting resources, $$, where there is no goal oriented need for it to be spent.

Hell I get why schools use payroll to rack down students and get them in so they are counted...it pays for itself in the end. No different than paying people to fundraise...you will bring in more dollars than you spend.

I get why there us so many administrative people in a school. Ton of crap that needs to be sent to different government agencies.

I would love to burn it all down. Start it over the way it should be. Pay teachers, have good facilities, etc. Get rid of all the crap that accomplishes nothing when it come to the goal...to teach students.

I am not private vs public....I am get rid of all the extra noise that gets in the way.

Schools should be student centered...and teacher centered to accomplish it.

Public schools, like just about anything else the different layers of government stick their nose in, have become a mess of unimportant stuff.


All I advocate for is pay the teachers, pay the bills, obviously spend a bit on clubs and sports, and get out if the way. Yes their are challenges....but get it to the most simplistic version of what education is supposed to be and then attacking the challenges will be so much easier without all the red tape. Double, triple teacher salaries....and damn if they won't want to attack those problems with new energy.

 

[Joes Place]

I like simplicity.

Why all the "book bans" then?
And legislators stepping in to control curriculums?

 

[win4jj]

Special Ed students need to go to public school, those schools are the experts in educating and facilitating special ed students.

It's not a case of the private schools don't want them it's a case of they are no equiped to handle them.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

 

[Tom Paris]

If public school teachers would do their job and quit praising Bernie Sanders and the Squad all of the time then the state wouldn’t have to do vouchers. Teachers brought this on themselves. Public school teachers have the biggest egos of anyone. They want power and control of people and the best way for that is a classroom of young kids. So they can spew their bullcrap on them.

Annnnnddddd, with that…ignore.

 

[Tom Paris]

With roughly 18 years in academics, much more than that,.. but apparently my teachers earned something over the pay grade you're most familiar with Tom.

Yay?

 

[Tom Paris]

Wtf you think you are? A textbook? Just because some random ass person on a message board posts something doesn't make it true. Doesn't mean you should learn anything from them. This board is content for entertainment and nothing else. If you are learning from this board you are learning the wrong things! Lol

Holy. Shit. You choose ignorance. Helluva strategy.

 

[Rudedolph]

Holy shit. Lol

You learning from a textbook written by an anonymous author that isn't using his real name? Lol

And you guys call other people dumb. Sheesh.

Oh my you’re more fuçked in the head than I thought.

 

[Tom Paris]

Holy shit. Lol

You learning from a textbook written by an anonymous author that isn't using his real name? Lol

And you guys call other people dumb. Sheesh.

Again, a complete refusal to learn things because you’re not capable of admitting you’re wrong about something. Maybe spend some time looking stuff up since you won’t take our word for it. Google isn’t difficult.

 

[DooBi]

Lol

 

[RileyHawk]

Didn't base any argument on it. Was looking for it because that is a go to in the conversation and damnit Changed a number based on it...yes...wasn't part of my point of view.

I screwed that one up. Got no problem admitting that.

Except you did. You repeated the bogus numbers several times to make your point.

I'll give you credit in that you aren't completely denying your what you said and spinning things to try to appear being "right" like many on here do. Still, your position is dumb and the foolish mistakes make it even worse.

 

[RileyHawk]

I like simplicity. The one thing I have learned in life is anything that isn't simple is wasting resources, $$, where there is no goal oriented need for it to be spent.

Hell I get why schools use payroll to rack down students and get them in so they are counted...it pays for itself in the end. No different than paying people to fundraise...you will bring in more dollars than you spend.

I get why there us so many administrative people in a school. Ton of crap that needs to be sent to different government agencies.

I would love to burn it all down. Start it over the way it should be. Pay teachers, have good facilities, etc. Get rid of all the crap that accomplishes nothing when it come to the goal...to teach students.

I am not private vs public....I am get rid of all the extra noise that gets in the way.

Schools should be student centered...and teacher centered to accomplish it.

Public schools, like just about anything else the different layers of government stick their nose in, have become a mess of unimportant stuff.


All I advocate for is pay the teachers, pay the bills, obviously spend a bit on clubs and sports, and get out if the way. Yes their are challenges....but get it to the most simplistic version of what education is supposed to be and then attacking the challenges will be so much easier without all the red tape. Double, triple teacher salaries....and damn if they won't want to attack those problems with new energy.

The position of "pay teachers" is worthy but the way you are promoting it, complete with an inability to put together sentences that use proper terms/grammar, gets completely lost. You've been all over the place and now seem to come back to teacher pay as your primary focus. OK - that's fine, but it is woefully inadequate as a solution.

Seems you fall back on "simplicity" due to lack of ability rather than a form of efficiency.

 

[tumorboy]

Except you did. You repeated the bogus numbers several times to make your point.

I'll give you credit in that you aren't completely denying your what you said and spinning things to try to appear being "right" like many on here do. Still, your position is dumb and the foolish mistakes make it even worse.

In his original post he made comments about Iowa City schools special education budget seemed way low. Considering they are the most expensive students to educate and his major point was eliminating that population from the budget it's more than just an oops.
Let's see things missing in his comparison. Transportation costs, special education costs, ESL costs, parental support. (Daughters primary schools PTO budget 355000). Compliance with federal mandate costs. It looks good.

 

[Hawki97]

There is so much yelling from the cheap seats going on in this thread…I’m worried about my hearing.