Iowa Wrestling is Dead

[MSU158]

And you continue to make excuse after excuse….I think my post was a what if as well. Illustrating that what ifs don’t really mean a thing. Reality is much more important. My responses are about my love of Hawkeye Wrestling and not about the reasons it’s ok we are where we are.

Who exactly is saying it is "ok"? I don't think anyone is. I am certainly not. I am simply giving REASONS which are monumentally different than "excuses", for why PSU is so far ahead of Iowa.

To cut through all the BS, I simply DO NOT believe there is someone out there right now that would be doing better at Iowa and, in any way, would they be able to bring PSU back to Earth in the process.

For all the bluster, Brands just won a Team Title in 2021 and inarguably had the best team in 2020. The ONLY other school to win one, won it 9 years ago(t-OSU in 2015) and NO OTHER team has won it besides them since 2007.

Would I like Brands to put a better product on the mat? Absolutley. Do I think there is more that he can do to make that happen? No doubt. Hell, I have just listed things I think need to be addressed and improved upon.

However, you cannot factually show me ANY coach(outside of Cael or Casey) that could walk into the Iowa Athletic Department and convince them they would significantly outperform Brands. And THAT is exactly and the ONLY thing I am actually arguing about...

 

[blcoach80]

It’s been a little bit but, when I was there, it would shock most people how little time we worked on anything to do with wrestling from space or scrambling. Our scramble training was essentially a couple techniques to prevent scrambles from occurring (hide your ankles when finishing shots, don’t give space, etc.). Our wrestling from space training was basically just keep your arms low so you don’t allow your opponent to get to your legs by taking an outside shot. This is not an exaggeration, but fact.

Was this under Brands or coach Z?

 

[wahlberg]

Was this under Brands or coach Z?

Brands

 

[Inspiteofourselves]

Starocci would be in his final season of eligibility if not for 2021. Instead, he has another year.

Correct that AB wouldn’t be here since he started as a TFR in 2020. This is his 5th year starting.

No Gambling Suspensions:

- Haines TF over Siebrecht if Franek doesn’t transfer in
- Starocci MAJ Brands if PK doesn’t move up to 174 and beat him out.
- Truax DEC Assad
- Kerkvliet DEC Cassioppi

28-6

Haines beat Siebrecht 3-2 last year in a very competitive match.

 

[Libertylover]

Haines beat Siebrecht 3-2 last year in a very competitive match.

Colby’s funk and length gave him some trouble. I think he threw him to his back, but Haines was able to scramble out without giving up points. Colby was more fun to watch than Franek, but Frank’s style will lead to a deeper run in the tournament than Colby’s go for broke funky style.

 

[bourbon n blues]

Who exactly is saying it is "ok"? I don't think anyone is. I am certainly not. I am simply giving REASONS which are monumentally different than "excuses", for why PSU is so far ahead of Iowa.

To cut through all the BS, I simply DO NOT believe there is someone out there right now that would be doing better at Iowa and, in any way, would they be able to bring PSU back to Earth in the process.

For all the bluster, Brands just won a Team Title in 2021 and inarguably had the best team in 2020. The ONLY other school to win one, won it 9 years ago(t-OSU in 2015) and NO OTHER team has won it besides them since 2007.

Would I like Brands to put a better product on the mat? Absolutley. Do I think there is more that he can do to make that happen? No doubt. Hell, I have just listed things I think need to be addressed and improved upon.

However, you cannot factually show me ANY coach(outside of Cael or Casey) that could walk into the Iowa Athletic Department and convince them they would significantly outperform Brands. And THAT is exactly and the ONLY thing I am actually arguing about...

Cael is the factor and when you put him in the PSU spot this is what you get. Nick Saban Saban was 34-24-1 at MSU, his last year was his best at 9-2.

He goes to LSU and wins the title a few years later then lands at Bama in 2007. We know what he did there.

 

[MSU158]

Cael is the factor and when you put him in the PSU spot this is what you get. Nick Saban Saban was 34-24-1 at MSU, his last year was his best at 9-2.

He goes to LSU and wins the title a few years later then lands at Bama in 2007. We know what he did there.

There is no doubt that Cael is the ultimate figurehead, but Casey and even Cody are major factors and they absolutely fall a bit back to Earth if one left.

That is especially true of Casey. By all accounts his influence in the PSU room is unparalleled. On top of that, I will say the CMU guys under him before he left talk about him in near godlike fashion!

 

[bourbon n blues]

There is no doubt that Cael is the ultimate figurehead, but Casey and every Cody are major factors and they absolutely fall a bit back to Earth if one left.

That is especially true of Casey. By all accounts his influence in the PSU room is unparalleled. On top of that, I will say the CMU guys under him before he left talk about him in hear godlike fashion!

Exactly, you don't build a dynasty based on one guy of course, which is why I mentioned Saban. The head coach is the figurehead and needs to organize and manage. It helps if they're capable. What I'm getting at and what you're saying if I'm correct is it takes a lot to come together to be at that level.

Location, assistant coaches, support staff, alumni support etc etc.

 

[vhsalum]

There is no doubt that Cael is the ultimate figurehead, but Casey and every Cody are major factors and they absolutely fall a bit back to Earth if one left.

That is especially true of Casey. By all accounts his influence in the PSU room is unparalleled. On top of that, I will say the CMU guys under him before he left talk about him in hear godlike fashion!

What Casey did at CMU was ridiculous. They were ranked #1 at one point, correct?

 

[MSU158]

What Casey did at CMU was ridiculous. They were ranked #1 at one point, correct?

They had a special run and I would kind of equate their success to when Edinboro had their run. A relatively small school and a distant third behind the 2 big state schools(UofM and MSU). They were able to seriously convince some of the best Michigan talent to go there instead and, back then, not too many names made it out of state with how limited we were able to travel and how we couldn't participate in "National High School" tournaments without losing eligibility. Even going to NHSCAA Seniors cost you baseball or track your senior year if you went...

They also did a pretty good job bringing in some very solid Ohio talent. They have dropped off considerably now and Borrelli's age may be starting to be a factor. But, I always have had a ton of respect for that program, even after Casey left...

 

[Grip220]

Bump!
Where are all the MORANS

 

[IAChief32]

Bump!
Where are all the MORANS

Now silently rooting against the Hawks so they can be proven right about Brands. It's sad really...like the locusts of losing, they'll be back in swarms if the Hawks don't do well in the B1G.

 

[Iron Doc]

Not. Dead. Yet.

 

[rcamp67]

I did some quick research on top 15 recruits landed between PSU & Iowa since the ‘14 recruiting class through the ‘22 class. and the amount of individual titles won by those specific wrestlers in the years that they wrestled varsity (throwing out injuries/not making the lineup, etc).
Total top 15 recruits-
Iowa- 9
PSU-16
Potential individual titles won
Iowa- 3 out of a possible 27 (11%)
PSU- 17 out of a possible 41 (41%)

This^ is by far the largest issue at hand. If you’re not winning titles with your best guys, you’re subsequently not going to routinely land the best guys. The excuse that they get all the recruits is the reason they win is a way to deflect the bigger problem at hand.

It’s been hit on repeatedly above, but there has to be a change in the way we train/practice/etc. there’s no way to try and argue facts at this point. A shake up of assistants would seem to be the logical place to start.

If you rerun this with top 10 recruits or even top 5 you will get DRASTICALLY different results. Part of the problem is out prize recruits are typically 8-15 while their prize recruits are usually top 5.

 

[Greenheadhawk]

Now silently rooting against the Hawks so they can be proven right about Brands. It's sad really...like the locusts of losing, they'll be back in swarms if the Hawks don't do well in the B1G.

Maybe we can bring in Coleman Scott, he's made a huge difference, they won one more match than they did last year. I love how he was up bitching most of the match while Tom stood over on the other side looking like the cat that caught the canary.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

If you rerun this with top 10 recruits or even top 5 you will get DRASTICALLY different results. Part of the problem is out prize recruits are typically 8-15 while their prize recruits are usually top 5.

Yeah, I'd be interested to see how many of our guys are basically wrestling to their recruiting ranking...........

 

[anon_4lz6x5o7izepf]

Maybe we can bring in Coleman Scott, he's made a huge difference, they won one more match than they did last year. I love how he was up bitching most of the match while Tom stood over on the other side looking like the cat that caught the canary.

Hold on, what about Brian Smith who just sat his entire roster for 2 duals?

 

[manatree]

Bump!
Where are all the MORANS

Your self-identification has been accomplished.

 

[vhsalum]

Now silently rooting against the Hawks so they can be proven right about Brands. It's sad really...like the locusts of losing, they'll be back in swarms if the Hawks don't do well in the B1G.

In all fairness, it would be well-deserved.

But the Hawks looked great against an okiest team i thought would win more of the toss up matches. We need to pull Kueter's shirt and i guess we pitch the Arnold/Kennedy issue a year down the road.

 

[js8793]

Now silently rooting against the Hawks so they can be proven right about Brands. It's sad really...like the locusts of losing, they'll be back in swarms if the Hawks don't do well in the B1G.

Yeah, we all want them to win! That's why we waste our time on here. Team looked awesome yesterday and I was pumped. Staff deserves a ton of credit.

But beating OSU isn't the standard. If they have another disappointing postseason, the criticism will be valid and deserved.

 

[Inthecircle]

Hold on, what about Brian Smith who just sat his entire roster for 2 duals.

Iowa wrestling is far from dead. Kudos to Brian Smith for saying it was the flu. He explained it in the Flo interview with Kyle Klingman.

 

[jammenz]

Now silently rooting against the Hawks so they can be proven right about Brands. It's sad really...like the locusts of losing, they'll be back in swarms if the Hawks don't do well in the B1G.

Unlike the fair-weather fans, there's value in consistency.

 

[Hawkgma]

Not. Dead. Yet.

Only dead at winning Championships.... Runner up is good enough for most "fans"

 

[Inthecircle]

Only dead at winning Championships.... Runner up is good enough for most "fans"

I don’t think so. My mentality is acceptance doesn’t mean approval.
If you can grasp this?

 

[Hawkgma]

I don’t think so. My mentality is acceptance doesn’t mean approval.
If you can grasp this?

You're right I don't grasp what you are saying....... it sounds like you DO think so and you have accepted That the hawks are runner up at best.

 

[Sharky1203]

Let me get this straight fellow Hawk fans;
1) We are near the top or at the top almost every year in football (we need a new coach)
2) We are near the top half almost every year in Men's basketball (we need a new coach)
3) We are near the top or at the top almost every year in Women's basketball (we need a new coach)
4) We are near the top or at the top almost every year in Men's wrestling (we need a new coach)

I remember fans couldn't wait for Hayden to go.
I remember when fans said Dr. Davis needed to go.
I remember when fans said Zalesky needed to go.

Hayden had left the cupboards bare. His last few years they were middle of the road teams.
Dr. Davis' teams were still winning. We struggled for years after he left.
Zalesky needed to go. Didn't like his coaching.

 

[Inthecircle]

You're right I don't grasp what you are saying....... it sounds like you DO think so and you have accepted That the hawks are runner up at best.

I have accepted we are a runner up at best, especially this year.
I do not approve of runner-up finishes.
There are different changes which can be made. I am not in the camp of shit can all the coaches and start fresh. In my opinion,
It’s a very high risk with a low return.

 

[Inthecircle]

Let me get this straight fellow Hawk fans;
1) We are near the top or at the top almost every year in football (we need a new coach)
2) We are near the top half almost every year in Men's basketball (we need a new coach)
3) We are near the top or at the top almost every year in Women's basketball (we need a new coach)
4) We are near the top or at the top almost every year in Men's wrestling (we need a new coach)

I remember fans couldn't wait for Hayden to go.
I remember when fans said Dr. Davis needed to go.
I remember when fans said Zalesky needed to go.

Hayden had left the cupboards bare. His last few years they were middle of the road teams.
Dr. Davis' teams were still winning. We struggled for years after he left.
Zalesky needed to go. Didn't like his coaching.

1. Football, we needed to make changes offensively, we are trying.
2. I didn’t approve of getting rid of Davis.
There are some parallels between wrestling and the Davis era. Basketball doesn’t finish top half.
3. I haven’t heard we need a new Women’s BB coach.
4. Yes, some believe this. Changes can be made, however, not at the risk of having it turn into what has happened with Men’s BB.

 

[Sharky1203]

1. Football, we needed to make changes offensively, we are trying.
2. I didn’t approve of getting rid of Davis.
There are some parallels between wrestling and the Davis era. Basketball doesn’t finish top half.
3. I haven’t heard we need a new Women’s BB coach.
4. Yes, some believe this. Changes can be made, however, not at the risk of having it turn into what has happened with Men’s BB.

I can't find the thread about Women's BB. It was somewhere after they lost to K State. There were a few knuckleheads that were calling for her head.

Kirk is a great coach. He gets a lot out of average players. He is getting up in years and should be working on handing it over. BF was the complete wrong person. I didn't like it when they made him OC.

Basketball, well we keep making it to the NCAA tourney. Maybe not this year. If I was going to say get rid of a coach, I guess this would be it.

Brands need to get some different assistant coaches. Go to more of a CEO type style of coaching.

 

[Drake__Mallard]

Bump!
Where are all the MORANS

This match doesn’t change the fact that we got completely outclassed by PSU.

 

[Bold_Crow]

1. Football, we needed to make changes offensively, we are trying.
2. I didn’t approve of getting rid of Davis.
There are some parallels between wrestling and the Davis era. Basketball doesn’t finish top half.
3. I haven’t heard we need a new Women’s BB coach.
4. Yes, some believe this. Changes can be made, however, not at the risk of having it turn into what has happened with Men’s BB.

Zero chance Iowa Wrestling goes into an Alford/Lickliter downturn. Absolute absurd to even say that.
I would argue based on resources and support alone that men’s basketball is the most overachieving program at Iowa right now.

 

[wahlberg]

Bump!
Where are all the MORANS

Here's another one you forgot to bump this time, for some reason. Real head-scratcher.
But, don't worry. I got you.

 

[artradley]

Spot on. The regression in Glazier is shocking! He’s a shadow of his Freshman, sophomore, and junior seasons.

TnT can turn an unranked HS kid into someone who, by his senior year, can finish 1-2 at Nationals.

Problem is, they can do the same for a top-20 kid…

 

[T8KUDWN]

Here's another one you forgot to bump this time, for some reason. Real head-scratcher.
But, don't worry. I got you.

Aren't you special...

 

[Grip220]

Hawkeye wrestling is not dead!
WE ARE getting DT, DAKE and NOLF. Im throwing in a C note to get JB that should take care of that noise, next topic!

 

[Sandor45]

Not dead but stagnant.

 

[PAfanski]

If you rerun this with top 10 recruits or even top 5 you will get DRASTICALLY different results. Part of the problem is out prize recruits are typically 8-15 while their prize recruits are usually top 5.

An excuse for everything

 

[LIV4GOD]

Hawkeye wrestling is not dead!

I agree. Being on life-support means one is still alive.

 

[Hawkgma]

Iowa wrestling is dead the way we know it. We have to many fans and boosters who believe that fighting for 2nd is good enough. We are Minny or Okie state now. They are just happy to be invited to the party. I wish things were different but lets be honest TnT won't change and the people with the money are all real close with the Brands bros... How far gone will we be when 2029 comes around??? who knows but i think we can all see the writting on the wall and these types of outsomes are what we can expect.

If TnT bring in the sports car bros i would guess Tnt don't make it to 2029 but the damage those boys will do is going to be nuts

 

[Sandor45]

T

Iowa wrestling is dead the way we know it. We have to many fans and boosters who believe that fighting for 2nd is good enough. We are Minny or Okie state now. They are just happy to be invited to the party. I wish things were different but lets be honest TnT won't change and the people with the money are all real close with the Brands bros... How far gone will we be when 2029 comes around??? who knows but i think we can all see the writting on the wall and these types of outsomes are what we can expect.

If TnT bring in the sports car bros i would guess Tnt don't make it to 2029 but the damage those boys will do is going to be nuts

Thats My biggest concern, is the timetable.
Things won’t get done quickly. By the time the people that matter finally see what we’ve seen for some time, it’ll be 10 years, at the earliest from now at which point Iowa fans lose more interest.
If we don’t take massive action soon, the Iowa brand will keep losing its appeal.
No brand is bulletproof.
Look at U of Miami football