*******NCAA CHAMPIONSHIP FINALS*******

[MAGAman]

Are you wrestling illiterate?

Go watch. Count steps backwards? Never in center. Love DA but bird deserved that win. I stopped counting at like 30.

I may agree on timing of last call but 1-2 calls prior weren't given. Even announcers said and im guessing their wrestling intellect is a bit above both of ours. Yours however obviously below mine and others on here.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

The truth is answering your question uses the same “unknown metrics”. If you can’t judge the improvement how can you say they both don’t win somewhere else? Now, to be clear NEITHER were at top notch programs prior. Not even close. So it makes sense that a change to a top tier school would make a difference for both.

With that said, could it be Taylor? Absolutely. My only area of contetion is acting like Taylor waved some magic wand and turned frogs into princes. They were both REALLY good at inferior programs…

It's not a magic wand, it's called coaching. There's a difference between really good and national champions and often coaching helps make that jump. See Buchanan as a similar example. He made a noticeable and significant jump at Iowa, similar to Hendrickson and Hamiti.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

Go watch. Count steps backwards? Never in center. Love DA but bird deserved that win. I stopped counting at like 30.

I may agree on timing of last call but 1-2 calls prior weren't given. Even announcers said and im guessing their wrestling intellect is a bit above both of ours. Yours however obviously below mine and others on here.

Did you watch many other matches all weekend? Stepping backwards isn't stalling. Hell Figueroa beat Drake last year doing exactly the same strategy Drake did some this year.

 

[Slim45]

Go watch. Count steps backwards? Never in center. Love DA but bird deserved that win. I stopped counting at like 30.

I may agree on timing of last call but 1-2 calls prior weren't given. Even announcers said and im guessing their wrestling intellect is a bit above both of ours. Yours however obviously below mine and others on here.

Byrd did nothing more than Ayala besides try to push drake around. When the announcers in SV were yapping about Ayala needing to do something, he had literally JUST taken a shot, got reattacked and driven to the edge. Those refs 100% got influenced by the fans and Illinois bench. The stalling in tb1 was bullshit, he gets the escape and byrd drives him out immediately, what is ayala supposed to do there?
If you want to count something count the shots taken, Byrd didn’t have any more than Drake. Oh, and lets not forget Byrd was 100% pinned but the ref was too fuggin slow to get down there.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Curious. What other medical forfeits were there besides Parco and the PSU 285?

 

[MSU158]

It's not a magic wand, it's called coaching. There's a difference between really good and national champions and often coaching helps make that jump. See Buchanan as a similar example. He made a noticeable and significant jump at Iowa, similar to Hendrickson and Hamiti.

A ton of “really good” wrestlers win titles. Again, I am not besmirching Taylor or his coaching. There is no doubt he helped. But, that doesn’t change the fact that both transferred in from far inferior rooms. It is entirely possible they would have had the same success at several other top tiers schools.

My point being, it doesn’t mean Taylor did something no one else could do. If those guys came from PSU, Iowa or even tOSU or Cornell, that would be massively more telling than Wisconsin and Air Force, respectively. DT absolutely deserves credit. How much, compared to other coaches at top programs is the measure that counts and is nearly impossible to quantify…

 

[DeangeloVickers]

A ton of “really good” wrestlers win titles. Again, I am not besmirching Taylor or his coaching. There is no doubt he helped. But, that doesn’t change the fact that both transferred in from far inferior rooms. It is entirely possible they would have had the same success at several other top tiers schools.

My point being, it doesn’t mean Taylor did something no one else could do. If those guys came from PSU, Iowa or even tOSU or Cornell, that would be massively more telling than Wisconsin and Air Force, respectively. DT absolutely deserves credit. How much, compared to other coaches at top programs is the measure that counts and is nearly impossible to quantify…

And no one is claiming DT did something with those two that other elite programs couldn't have. But he and okie state did it and that means something in the current landscape of college wrestling.

 

[tiltman]

It was a marketing ploy to bring in numbers and until we see those official numbers come in I'm guessing it worked.

To get more eyes on it do you expect those questionable/ casual fans to tune in at 9PM for 184 or start the tournament off with that bang and try to get them to stick around to the end with what ended up being the biggest upset in 50 years?

It's about growing that sport, not just the person, which is what Starocci doesn't get. Similarly to all those pissed that Trump was there.

The NCAA finals is all over the news and social media. People that would never watch it are talking about it. Hate Trump all you want, I do, but a sitting president being in attendance is great for the sport.

While I think several matches were boring, it overall was a good event and exactly what was needed to bring some excitement to new fans.

Now they just need to get DC off the mic.

I know why they did it, but do you think anyone that wasn’t going to watch already 1.Knows who Starocci is? The answer is no. Nobody outside of wrestling has a clue who he is. Or 2. They knew they decided to start with that weight and thought “ I need to make sure I'm sitting down and tuned in right at 6 cause they moved Starocci to the first match”? The answer to that is also no.
The only reason the finals are getting any news outside your wrestling media is because of the massive upset and Trump being there. I haven’t seen any headlines mentioning anything other than those two things.
I do agree with you though that for the most part the tournament was exciting and yes they most definitely need to get DC off the mic. Much like the marketing ploy they used switching weights up theyre using him for the same thing.

 

[HawkAlum2002]

Curious. What other medical forfeits were there besides Parco and the PSU 285?

I think those were the only two guys this year, which has got to be a rarity.

 

[DeadHead11]

Great tournament! Congrats to all the AAs! I’d rather hear about fists to the back and going for the gusto than listen to Cormier. Hidlay did a great job!

Who wins the Hodge trophy now? I guess Starocci but also a huge win for Hamiti. How could I not mention Captain America..such an idiot

 

[Idahopennstatefan]

Really interesting hwt match up. I think a healthy Kerk beats Hendrickson but loses by 6-8 to Gable. But Hendrickson had the more compact body, size and strength to beat Gable. Give Hendrickson his props he wrestled the match how he had to to win. Gable knew he was in trouble in the opening flurries when the ankle was passed and the shot stalemated. Gable slowed by the end you could see the shell shock of pace setting in. Reminds me some of Taylor's freestyle matches on the world stage.

Hamiti was always good but never great at 165. John Smith would have starved him down and we wouldn't have seen this version. Taylor helped him clean up a few things and the ankle pick against Haines was picture perfect. Taylor's familiarity with Haines didn't hurt the match preparation.

Sometimes a change of venue can change the outcome. Buchanon got better with a change of training partners and doing the little things. I think the same can be said for Hamiti, Hendrickson, and to a lesser extent Parco, Amine, and Teemer. (Hard to say with Teemer and Parco because of injuries.)

I hope Iowa fans appreciate and are grateful for what they have. PK left it all out there, SB did the little things to win when he had to. Drake came up short but can't deny the effort. (His seabolt one trick pony slide by is hard to train out of him. Has skills and talent just needs to trust them.) Without the injuries to Teemer and Parco it's a different finish in the 2nd-4th place. None of the Iowa guys quit.

 

[MSU158]

And no one is claiming DT did something with those two that other elite programs couldn't have. But he and okie state did it and that means something in the current landscape of college wrestling.

Make no mistake, there are several on here that ABSOLUTELY are claiming that…

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

Worth a watch, it's a great interview.
Undoubtedly, DT had a major impact on those guys winning it all. You're selling his influence short if you think otherwise.

 

[AFHawk86]

Hendrickson most certainly not. Dont think. he would have had eligibility - but even if he did he would have had to keep his weight down. Aside from having DT coach him

There is no fifth year at the military service academies. His only shot at a fifth year resulted because of Covid, enabling him to participate in the World Class Athlete Program (WCAP) and attend OSU. Otherwise he could have applied for WCAP post collegiately.

 

[Chips28]

Go watch. Count steps backwards? Never in center. Love DA but bird deserved that win. I stopped counting at like 30.

I may agree on timing of last call but 1-2 calls prior weren't given. Even announcers said and im guessing their wrestling intellect is a bit above both of ours. Yours however obviously below mine and others on here.

lol count the steps is not a thing, Drake was working for a slide by or arm bar the entire match. You claim to be a Drake fan but seems you’ve never seen him wrestle. Sprawling isn’t stalling.

The double OT stall was egregious, he was circling towards center and essentially ended the match

 

[Bhabbaganoosh]

Keegan O’Toole was NOWHERE near 100%. 99 out of 100 go to a healthy O’Toole. Keegan was really limited in his movements. I was coaching in WI during his high school years and watched him a lot, that was his worst scrambling ever.

Trooper Farva win because Gable totally discounted him. Gable nonchalanted his way through it and Farva kept it close and absolutely stunned the wrestling world. But what kind of leg defense was that let alone why wasn’t he just running from him. Gable didn’t think there was a chance in the world Farva or anyone could take him down.

Amine was a 3X AA at Michigan and regressed.

Hard to say Fish improve when he lost to Jacori!

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

I know why they did it, but do you think anyone that wasn’t going to watch already 1.Knows who Starocci is? The answer is no. Nobody outside of wrestling has a clue who he is. Or 2. They knew they decided to start with that weight and thought “ I need to make sure I'm sitting down and tuned in right at 6 cause they moved Starocci to the first match”? The answer to that is also no.
The only reason the finals are getting any news outside your wrestling media is because of the massive upset and Trump being there. I haven’t seen any headlines mentioning anything other than those two things.
I do agree with you though that for the most part the tournament was exciting and yes they most definitely need to get DC off the mic. Much like the marketing ploy they used switching weights up theyre using him for the same thing.

The marketing behind last night was 100% pushing Starocci's run at #5 and the Olympic champs return. Maximize those matches by stretching them out over the event. The only reason people are torn over it is because it's not in weight order. So what? We're used to the order and that's all it is.

I guarantee you people tuned in to only watch those 2 matches and ended up staying for the entire event because they were bookended.

And "the only reason" about the wrestling coverage is reason enough and we as fans should be over moon because of it. As long as the sport of wrestling is portrayed positively in the headlines then I don't care how it gets there.

People are still talking about it almost 24 hours later and that's big.

 

[1Hammers1]

He went down on 1 knee 18 times in 1st period. He should have wrestled that period. Would have won.

 

[MilleGinja]

Keegan O’Toole was NOWHERE near 100%. 99 out of 100 go to a healthy O’Toole. Keegan was really limited in his movements. I was coaching in WI during his high school years and watched him a lot, that was his worst scrambling ever.

Trooper Farva win because Gable totally discounted him. Gable nonchalanted his way through it and Farva kept it close and absolutely stunned the wrestling world. But what kind of leg defense was that let alone why wasn’t he just running from him. Gable didn’t think there was a chance in the world Farva or anyone could take him down.

Amine was a 3X AA at Michigan and regressed.

Hard to say Fish improve when he lost to Jacori!

Amine also finished R12 last year at Michigan, so IDK that you can say he regressed at OSU…

 

[pointtheway]

Really interesting hwt match up. I think a healthy Kerk beats Hendrickson but loses by 6-8 to Gable. But Hendrickson had the more compact body, size and strength to beat Gable. Give Hendrickson his props he wrestled the match how he had to to win. Gable knew he was in trouble in the opening flurries when the ankle was passed and the shot stalemated. Gable slowed by the end you could see the shell shock of pace setting in. Reminds me some of Taylor's freestyle matches on the world stage.

Hamiti was always good but never great at 165. John Smith would have starved him down and we wouldn't have seen this version. Taylor helped him clean up a few things and the ankle pick against Haines was picture perfect. Taylor's familiarity with Haines didn't hurt the match preparation.

Sometimes a change of venue can change the outcome. Buchanon got better with a change of training partners and doing the little things. I think the same can be said for Hamiti, Hendrickson, and to a lesser extent Parco, Amine, and Teemer. (Hard to say with Teemer and Parco because of injuries.)

I hope Iowa fans appreciate and are grateful for what they have. PK left it all out there, SB did the little things to win when he had to. Drake came up short but can't deny the effort. (His seabolt one trick pony slide by is hard to train out of him. Has skills and talent just needs to trust them.) Without the injuries to Teemer and Parco it's a different finish in the 2nd-4th place. None of the Iowa guys quit.

Hamiti was actually extremely good at 165 in 2024. He was whipping Messenbrink in the Big10 tourney when he got out of position in a scramble and put to his back for a 6 or 7 point move, so Messenbrink with his unbelievable gas tank came back and beat him. If he had held on to win that match, his NCAA seeding would have been much better and he may have been in finals against O'Toole instead of Messenbrink in 2024.

 

[blcoach80]

Hamiti has been very impressive since he was a freshman. He worried me with the Bull when he came on the scene. Anyone thinking he got great magically this year hasn't been paying attention. He got better coaching at a better weight to fine tune his skills against a banged up O'Toole. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[LIV4GOD]

Hamiti was actually extremely good at 165 in 2024. He was whipping Messenbrink in the Big10 tourney when he got out of position in a scramble and put to his back for a 6 or 7 point move, so Messenbrink with his unbelievable gas tank came back and beat him. If he had held on to win that match, his NCAA seeding would have been much better and he may have been in finals against O'Toole instead of Messenbrink in 2024.

How soon people forget.

 

[Hawk fan in Minn]

View embedded media

He went down on 1 knee 18 times in 1st period. He should have wrestled that period. Would have won.

He wrestled that way the entire tourney.

 

[tigerhawk2015]

The marketing behind last night was 100% pushing Starocci's run at #5 and the Olympic champs return. Maximize those matches by stretching them out over the event. The only reason people are torn over it is because it's not in weight order. So what? We're used to the order and that's all it is.

I guarantee you people tuned in to only watch those 2 matches and ended up staying for the entire event because they were bookended.

And "the only reason" about the wrestling coverage is reason enough and we as fans should be over moon because of it. As long as the sport of wrestling is portrayed positively in the headlines then I don't care how it gets there.

People are still talking about it almost 24 hours later and that's big.

What’s crazy to me is how nobody is talking about Starocci at all.

 

[MSU158]

Guys, come on. Byrd was a VERY tough matchup for Drake. He is strong enough to barely budge when Drake goes for his throw bys. Drake tried them a ton, but many times Byrd made them look the equivalent to half shots or feints.

Drake was actually quite actively trying for takedowns, but Byrd simply took his best attacks away. I know many fans just think “shots” should just magically happen with takedowns coming at will, but styles actually make matchups.

Guys like Byrd were why I was worried at the beginning of the year thatDrake was going to have a hard time at 133. Much bigger and stronger with a tough ride. The make up at the weight changed, Crookham went down and Drake got much better on bottom, but the one “bully” left at the weight simply out physicalled him and the refs fell for all the pushing around the mat, but it didn’t mean Drake wasn’t very active. He most certainly was…

 

[texas twister]

Make no mistake, there are several on here that ABSOLUTELY are claiming that…

I hope you are not accusing me of doing that. I did not. DT brought in top talent because he is DT. He will do it again next season also along with top notch recruiting which is already evident seems how OSU is rated #1 class for 2025. He has the program turned around already. Iowa needed/needs to make a similar move.

 

[MSU158]

I hope you are not accusing me of doing that. I did not. DT brought in top talent because he is DT. He will do it again next season also along with top notch recruiting which is already evident seems how OSU is rated #1 class for 2025. He has the program turned around already. Iowa needed/needs to make a similar move.

Nah, your talk has mainly been anti Brands no matter what good happened. I haven’t read much direct DT praise from you on here…

 

[AFHawk86]

This is a topic that’s been discussed on this board. It’s a thorough overview of this year’s transfer successes.

 

[MAGAman]

lol count the steps is not a thing, Drake was working for a slide by or arm bar the entire match. You claim to be a Drake fan but seems you’ve never seen him wrestle. Sprawling isn’t stalling.

The double OT stall was egregious, he was circling towards center and essentially ended the match

I agree on last call. But 1-2 weren't called early. Listen was rooting for DA and hate any match determined by a stall sucks. I dont agree he wasnt stalling but the fact that 1/2 on board agrees 1/2 disagree shows why how refs are inconsistent. Its tough to draw a hard line.

At days end both athletes could of done more. Drake has the skill, offensive arsenal and especially conditioning to let it fly. Think he coupd of wore bird out. The right guy won based on aggressiveness and control of center. Btw bird rolled thru. Yes both shoulders touched for a split 1/4 second but no pin. Thats a reach as well.

 

[johnyt9]

I agree on last call. But 1-2 weren't called early. Listen was rooting for DA and hate any match determined by a stall sucks. I dont agree he wasnt stalling but the fact that 1/2 on board agrees 1/2 disagree shows why how refs are inconsistent. Its tough to draw a hard line.

At days end both athletes could of done more. Drake has the skill, offensive arsenal and especially conditioning to let it fly. Think he coupd of wore bird out. The right guy won based on aggressiveness and control of center. Btw bird rolled thru. Yes both shoulders touched for a split 1/4 second but no pin. Thats a reach as well.

Drake wasn't called for stalling when it should have been called - that send the message to him that what he is doing is acceptable and he can continue with that course of action. When he was called was at a point in the match where he had no time to overcome it. They pulled the rug out from under him.

He didn't do enough to win, but a "makeup stall" call is unacceptable. Hats off to Byrd he was allowed to wrestle the way he was and took advantage

 

[CMMG Banshee]

I thought it was executed well. They picked a great lineup order imo. I was thoroughly entertained!

Cormier was highly difficult to listen to, however.

I much prefer the weights go in order, history be damned, every finalist is making history and all weights matter.

I get the tv angle though, it’s my own preference .

 

[CMMG Banshee]

It's not a magic wand, it's called coaching. There's a difference between really good and national champions and often coaching helps make that jump. See Buchanan as a similar example. He made a noticeable and significant jump at Iowa, similar to Hendrickson and Hamiti.

Part of Buchanan’s jump was Brooks graduating .

 

[CMMG Banshee]

It's not a magic wand, it's called coaching. There's a difference between really good and national champions and often coaching helps make that jump. See Buchanan as a similar example. He made a noticeable and significant jump at Iowa, similar to Hendrickson and Hamiti.

Hamiti also isn’t sucking weight like last year. He had messenbrink dead to rights but gassed in the big ten finals .

 

[Jason.D.Brantley]

Aaron Brooks is related to Michael Vick apparently. Mildly interesting.

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

What’s crazy to me is how nobody is talking about Starocci at all.

I think part of it is is because people straight up don't like him. Unless you're a PSU fan or you subtract his pedigree as a wrestler out of the equation, there's very little to like about him, imo.

Steveson leaned heavily into his role as a heel/villain and I think most people understood he did it for entertainment, because he was always complimentary of others. Look at the finals - he treated the entrance as a showdown, then after defeat on the podium he was clapping Wyatt on the back and cheering for him.

I don't necessarily like Gable all that much, but he genuinely appeared to be happy for his Wyatt.

Likewise look at Keck and his post-finals interviews. Damn he is a likeable dude with a good head on his shoulders. People can relate to that.

Carter is straying further and further from likeabililty, especially on social media, over the past few years. Everything is about him and nothing more.

 

[whejoe]

I think we should lift Vodka’s ban and unleash him on ESPN’s compliance office to get Cormier removed from next year’s telecast.

 

[IAChief32]

I never fully brought into Gable as the heel just because he is always seemed to be on the verge of a wink and grin when he was in character. I thought it was a great upset last night but not because I'm a Gable hater. That it was shocking is a credit to Gable. In fact, he'll always have my respect for winning gold and how he did it. My only beef is that he treated the sport like a side piece. Hope he jumps back in with both feet and goes onto win more golds.

 

[IAChief32]

I think we should lift Vodka’s ban and unleash him on ESPN’s compliance office to get Cormier removed from next year’s telecast.

I literally think that the mods on here found him, killed him, and buried him lol. No way that bell is getting unrung.

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

I never fully brought into Gable as the heel just because he is always seemed to be on the verge of a wink and grin when he was in character. I thought it was a great upset last night but not because I'm a Gable hater. That it was shocking is a credit to Gable. In fact, he'll always have my respect for winning gold and how he did it. My only beef is that he treated the sport like a side piece. Hope he jumps back in with both feet and goes onto win more golds.

Apart of me wants the best rep on the world team and that's likely him.

Another part wants him to be done (because as you said he treated it like a side piece) and let Parris and Hendrickson duke it out and make their own runs.

All in all it's a good problem to have.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

I literally think that the mods on here found him, killed him, and buried him lol. No way that bell is getting unrung.

Is he in the cornfield with Nicky?