NCAA Seeds

[MitchLL]

IMO...Regarding Caliendo, there's very little difference between a #2/#3 seed.

It's pretty clear to me that Messenbrink is several notches above everyone not named Caliendo, but Mikey is clearly a notch above everyone else.
It would take a massive upset for MC to not make the semis.

 

[PSU Mike]

Noto isn’t the same guy this year.

Thinking Bouzakis after that won’t be the comfiest for fans.

 

[MilleGinja]

My mistake. I forgot about the MFF. The seeding is done by a formula and head-to-head is given the most weight. Barr beat the 5 seed Beard earlier this year so I'm sure that factored in

Injury default counts as a loss. MFF doesn’t.

Loss to Buchanan
Loss to Cardenas
Loss to Salazar (Inj Default)

 

[jmadden1998]

Injury default counts as a loss. MFF doesn’t.

Loss to Buchanan
Loss to Cardenas
Loss to Salazar (Inj Default)

From the NCAA manual:

Forfeits and medical forfeits count towards the winning percentage but do not count toward the 15-match RPI.

 

[el dub]

Yea it is pretty freaking stupid.

Is there a big diff between 2 and three?

 

[MitchLL]

Is there a big diff between 2 and three?

Unless a certain style of an opponent gives a specific wrestler problems, absolutely no difference between a 2/3.

 

[UndercoverHawk]

Injury default counts as a loss. MFF doesn’t.

Loss to Buchanan
Loss to Cardenas
Loss to Salazar (Inj Default)

If there was an Inj Def in the previous match then the MFF doesn’t count as a loss. If you completed the previous match then your first MFF counts as a loss, but subsequent MFFs don’t. You’ll see it designated on track and such as MFFL for those counting and MFF for those not counting.

 

[UndercoverHawk]

Thinking Bouzakis after that won’t be the comfiest for fans.

Nah Bouzakis won’t make it there

 

[AFHawk86]

Is there a big diff between 2 and three?

No, it’s just the principle.

 

[MitchLL]

Based on seeds...only 5 AAs for the Hawks.

That's probably accurate at this point.
Hope I'm wrong, but I still think there's a distinct possibility Teemer MFFs out as soon as he loses in the winner's bracket.
He looked to be hurtin unit at B1Gs.

 

[dtripp26]

Teemer, PK, and Gabe took a beating.

As predicted

 

[hogghawk]

One thing I would say is nobody that was seeded high was wanting to see teemer in their bracket as a low seed. He’s still dangerous enough to take out the top dogs even if he is hurt. Crazy things take place at the ncaas.

 

[UndercoverHawk]

One thing I would say is nobody that was seeded high was wanting to see teemer in their bracket as a low seed. He’s still dangerous enough to take out the top dogs even if he is hurt. Crazy things take place at the ncaas.

This Teemer is 1 explosion away from ending any match. He locked up a cradle in the Miller match in a crazy flurry when he was forced to by the injury time debacle.

 

[sdvike]

It’s not a “bad draw.” He had every opportunity to get the top seed and avoid AJ before the finals and went out and did nothing instead. That’s on him. Period.

Should be a fantastic match. And I think Cardenas falls somewhere before finals. He didn't show me anything special besides defense and staying low on feet.

 

[js8793]

I imagine it’s tough to wrestle when you’re trying not to shart all over the mat. Gotta give Frost a break there. I believe ISU backup pinned him in the dual.

There is apparently some backstory I’m not aware of here lol

 

[Muscles1989]

Everyone complaining about bad draws, most of the hawks didn’t perform well last week, and as late IOWA wrestlers seem to not live up to seeds. If the guys just win matches they should they’ll all end up where they should.

 

[HawkAlum2002]

One thing I would say is nobody that was seeded high was wanting to see teemer in their bracket as a low seed. He’s still dangerous enough to take out the top dogs even if he is hurt. Crazy things take place at the ncaas.

Totally agree. Just because he's lost some SV matches doesn't mean he can't win them, he's not getting wrecked by anyone. And even against Kasak he was very close to a reversal out of bounds that would've changed how the rest of that match played out. I won't count him out until he's actually eliminated even if his style gets on my nerves. Hope for some Cory Clark magic for his final dance.

 

[AFHawk86]

 

[Agoodnap]

It counts as a loss on his record. A Med forfeit before the match does not

Yes, I know an Injury Default counts as a loss, but simply stating "he lost to Salazar" without the details that it was a 1st period Injury Default was being disingenuous.

 

[AndEEss]

There is apparently some backstory I’m not aware of here lol

Frost was…not well.

Gastrointestinally.

 

[pennstaterincarolina]

Unless a certain style of an opponent gives a specific wrestler problems, absolutely no difference between a 2/3.

Mantanona probably the most dangerous lower seeded guy in that bottom half, but Caliendo seems way too sold for that to matter (should they meet). Him getting the three is silly, but I think will ultimately be inconsequential. After Big Tens, a matchup with him and Messenbrink sounds a lot more intriguing. Hopefully we get to see the two best go at it.

 

[MilleGinja]

Frost was…not well.

Gastrointestinally.

Been there. Looked my coach straight in the eye after a loss and his disappointment immediately turned to understanding. And then I ran/waddled to the bathroom

 

[jmadden1998]

Mantanona probably the most dangerous lower seeded guy in that bottom half, but Caliendo seems way too sold for that to matter (should they meet). Him getting the three is silly, but I think will ultimately be inconsequential. After Big Tens, a matchup with him and Messenbrink sounds a lot more intriguing. Hopefully we get to see the two best go at it.

I wouldn't be upset if Mesenbrink didn't make it though.

 

[Hawky42]

doesn't seem as big of a mess or egregious mistakes as some previous years.

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

Kennedy’s first two rounds are nice, looks like he’d have either pinto or kharchla in the blood round though.

He can beat Pinto...just has to focus. Don't think he can beat Kharchla...

 

[acuhawk]

Anyone explain how stahrocci was an 8 last year and barr a 4? 97 that much weaker at the top of was criteria changed this year?

 

[UndercoverHawk]

Anyone explain how stahrocci was an 8 last year and barr a 4? 97 that much weaker at the top of was criteria changed this year?

Only difference I can think of is at least Barr placed (6th) at Big Tens. Starocci went 0-2 last year and needed the at large.

 

[SPOONER]

Based on seeds...only 5 AAs for the Hawks.

That's probably accurate at this point.
Hope I'm wrong, but I still think there's a distinct possibility Teemer MFFs out as soon as he loses in the winner's bracket.
He looked to be hurtin unit at B1Gs.

I'm with you for the most part. The fact he wrested on Sunday in the 7th place match tells me he might be in it for as much as he can be. Was surprised to see him go out there, and he actually looked much more like himself energy-wise.

Maybe he had what Frost had, in addition to the obvious weakness in his shoulder? LOL

 

[MSU158]

Only difference I can think of is at least Barr placed (6th) at Big Tens. Starocci went 0-2 last year and needed the at large.

It seems PSU simply gets the benefit of the doubt(even if it is just the seeding matrix). This seems especially true if they took an upset late. Still, hard to argue against them, with what they have done recently...

125: Lilledahl got the 1 with 2 "not so good" losses. I don't really have an issue with it, but I think you could argue against it....
133: Davis 8 seed with a not so great 12-5 record and seeded over Shawver, whom he lost to at B1G's. The weight is a hodge podge after the top 6 or so, so it isn't a "hated" seed, but again, it is a benefit of the doubt seed.
141: Bartlett-Chalk. Although, Alirez basically did the same thing in a much weaker conference and only got the 8. The seeding "matrix" definitely favored Bartlett's schedule over Alirez.
149: Van Ness-Even with the upset, 149 drops off pretty hard after the top 4-5 guys. Webster moved up a ton to the 7 seed based on that win, so this is a very deserved seed. Still, so far, they haven't been remotely penalized seeding wise.
157: Kasak-If they are going to give Taylor(Neb) the 3 seed, you can't argue Kasak any lower than 2. Both he and Shapiro were essentially undefeated, with their sole losses being injury defaults. Still, Kasak wrestled 7 more matches and a B1G schedule. But, again, I think plenty could argue Shapiro over him.
165: Mess-The 1 seed is as deserved as it could be for anyone, except maybe Gable....
174: Haines- Again, I have zero issue with the seed, but all I can see that would put him over Hamiti is wins over Kharchla, Pinto and Kennedy. While Hamiti's best wins are Ruiz, Devos, Norman and Brands. A ton of parsing there. They both have only 1 loss to O'Toole in OT.
184: Starocci- No tangible argument exist to put him anywhere other than the 1.....
197: Barr- Now this is the headscratcher. A healthy 3rd at B1G's and the 4 seed is right where he belongs. However, this is NOT what happened. Considering recent history, he SHOULD have been punished substantially. He most certainly was not.....
285: Kerkvliet- 2 undefeateds ahead of him, but not the 3rd? Personally, I think he is where he should be, but for the purposes of this exercise, he ended up with the benefit of the doubt....

I challenge anyone to find a seed where they could have been any higher. To be clear, I really don't have any issue with any of the seeds, except Barr. But, it is pretty obvious that they weren't "knocked" ANYWHERE!

 

[PSU Mike]

Just hoping for good recoveries and no more injuries so we don’t have to play the “but if not for…” game after the smoke clears Saturday night.

 

[baccafarmer]

Anyone explain how stahrocci was an 8 last year and barr a 4? 97 that much weaker at the top of was criteria changed this year?

B10 injury defaults

 

[MitchLL]

I'm with you for the most part. The fact he wrested on Sunday in the 7th place match tells me he might be in it for as much as he can be. Was surprised to see him go out there, and he actually looked much more like himself energy-wise.

Maybe he had what Frost had, in addition to the obvious weakness in his shoulder? LOL

I'd guess the only reason he wrestled in that march was he, or the coaches, knew he was in trouble for national seeding and was simply trying to get as high as possible.

The strategy against him in Philly is probably pretty simple...

 

[pointtheway]

Anyone explain how stahrocci was an 8 last year and barr a 4? 97 that much weaker at the top of was criteria changed this year?

As was posted in the Seeds at Nats thread, they changed the seeding weighting this year by lowering coaches poll from 15% to 10% and raising the Conf Tourney Placement from 10% to 15%. That may explain some of the surprising seeding and why guys like Arnold and Teemer and Caliendo ended up lower than expected, and why Keuter ended up higher than expected.

Putting more weight on Conf Tourney Placement helps the weaker conferences and hurts the Big10, but they have a history of screwing Big10 in seeding, so it is no surprise that they would adjust the seeding criteria to hurt Big10 even more. The heavier weighting on Conf Tourney Placement might also explain how Lilledahl and Hardy got #1 seeds while 1 loss opponents dropped to #2.

 

[OldKohawk]

Looking it all over:

Ayala: Tough draw IMO. Bouzakis is a DANGEROUS QF if it get there.

Caliendo: I think he got kind of hosed, and I HATE having Mantanona in the QF. Bad recent history w/ Michigan QFs, plus a funky style.

Buchanan: Should make the semis, but losing to Cardenas has put him in a tough spot. AJ, for all the hate I and others give him, is probably the best guy. Was really hoping they'd bump Barr over Ferrari.

If there's anybody on our team that I'd bet on to go through the tough part, it's Ayala or Caliendo. I'm betting Drake is excited about showing everyone they are wrong.

Mantanona vs Mess at B10s started out decent then Mess just crushed him. Caliendo should do the same if they see each other. Let's hope UM doesn't have their 2 bricks left, or they'll use them just to get him a breather

Still think Buchanan gets it done and ends up on top. He's shown all year long he's been the guy. If AJ does beat him, I'm betting he does something dumb and finally puts the dagger into the 'AJ to Iowa' talk.

 

[MSU158]

If there's anybody on our team that I'd bet on to go through the tough part, it's Ayala or Caliendo. I'm betting Drake is excited about showing everyone they are wrong.

Mantanona vs Mess at B10s started out decent then Mess just crushed him. Caliendo should do the same if they see each other. Let's hope UM doesn't have their 2 bricks left, or they'll use them just to get him a breather

Still think Buchanan gets it done and ends up on top. He's shown all year long he's been the guy. If AJ does beat him, I'm betting he does something dumb and finally puts the dagger into the 'AJ to Iowa' talk.

IF AJ wins it, he will most likely have had to get through Glazier and Buchanan. No matter your stance, that would be crazy karma considering he was in the room for quite some time...

 

[TNTwrestle]

Looking at the matchups/pathways for our guys, the NCAA absolutely went after storylines

They always do.

 

[pish69]

It seems PSU simply gets the benefit of the doubt(even if it is just the seeding matrix). This seems especially true if they took an upset late. Still, hard to argue against them, with what they have done recently...

125: Lilledahl got the 1 with 2 "not so good" losses. I don't really have an issue with it, but I think you could argue against it....
133: Davis 8 seed with a not so great 12-5 record and seeded over Shawver, whom he lost to at B1G's. The weight is a hodge podge after the top 6 or so, so it isn't a "hated" seed, but again, it is a benefit of the doubt seed.
141: Bartlett-Chalk. Although, Alirez basically did the same thing in a much weaker conference and only got the 8. The seeding "matrix" definitely favored Bartlett's schedule over Alirez.
149: Van Ness-Even with the upset, 149 drops off pretty hard after the top 4-5 guys. Webster moved up a ton to the 7 seed based on that win, so this is a very deserved seed. Still, so far, they haven't been remotely penalized seeding wise.
157: Kasak-If they are going to give Taylor(Neb) the 3 seed, you can't argue Kasak any lower than 2. Both he and Shapiro were essentially undefeated, with their sole losses being injury defaults. Still, Kasak wrestled 7 more matches and a B1G schedule. But, again, I think plenty could argue Shapiro over him.
165: Mess-The 1 seed is as deserved as it could be for anyone, except maybe Gable....
174: Haines- Again, I have zero issue with the seed, but all I can see that would put him over Hamiti is wins over Kharchla, Pinto and Kennedy. While Hamiti's best wins are Ruiz, Devos, Norman and Brands. A ton of parsing there. They both have only 1 loss to O'Toole in OT.
184: Starocci- No tangible argument exist to put him anywhere other than the 1.....
197: Barr- Now this is the headscratcher. A healthy 3rd at B1G's and the 4 seed is right where he belongs. However, this is NOT what happened. Considering recent history, he SHOULD have been punished substantially. He most certainly was not.....
285: Kerkvliet- 2 undefeateds ahead of him, but not the 3rd? Personally, I think he is where he should be, but for the purposes of this exercise, he ended up with the benefit of the doubt....

I challenge anyone to find a seed where they could have been any higher. To be clear, I really don't have any issue with any of the seeds, except Barr. But, it is pretty obvious that they weren't "knocked" ANYWHERE!

Clueless once again..It's unreal how dense you are. Comical

Barr has wins over 1 and 5 seed, and losses to 1 and 2 seeds with injury default as well..and you think 4 is a "headscratcher"

Kasak 18-1 wins over 3,5,11,13,18,20 and 21
Shapiro 11-1 wins over 14,26,29 and 30

What's the argument for Shapiro besides "gut feeling"

 

[MSU158]

Clueless once again..It's unreal how dense you are. Comical

Barr has wins over 1 and 5 seed, and losses to 1 and 2 seeds with injury default as well..and you think 4 is a "headscratcher"

Kasak 18-1 wins over 3,5,11,13,18,20 and 21
Shapiro 11-1 wins over 14,26,29 and 30

What's the argument for Shapiro besides "gut feeling"

I swear, you must struggle mightily reading and comprehending Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing.

Barr took what place at B1G's? What is the recent history for those that finish MFFing at conferences? It's like you LITERALLY ignored the part I clearly listed that made it a "headscratcher". Hell, I literally prefaced his portion by saying if he finished 3rd and healthy the 4 seed is exactly what he should be. But, you want to completely ignore what happened on the backside of his bracket, when the seeding committee hasn't ignored it for anyone but him.

As far as Shapiro goes, I would say that anyone could "argue" 1 undefeated over another, especially when that undefeated took 3rd at the weight while Kasak took 3rd 2 classes down.

Finally, never change, you are like going to a catfish farm with your kids and giving them a pole and sending them to the smallest pond. As soon as the hook hits the water....BAAAAMM fish bites and is the easiest reeling in of all time!!!

 

[pish69]

I swear, you must struggle mightily reading and comprehending Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing.

Barr took what place at B1G's? What is the recent history for those that finish MFFing at conferences? It's like you LITERALLY ignored the part I clearly listed that made it a "headscratcher". Hell, I literally prefaced his portion by saying if he finished 3rd and healthy the 4 seed is exactly what he should be. But, you want to completely ignore what happened on the backside of his bracket, when the seeding committee hasn't ignored it for anyone but him.

As far as Shapiro goes, I would say that anyone could "argue" 1 undefeated over another, especially when that undefeated took 3rd at the weight while Kasak took 3rd 2 classes down.

Finally, never change, you are like going to a catfish farm with your kids and giving them a pole and sending them to the smallest pond. As soon as the hook hits the water....BAAAAMM fish bites and is the easiest reeling in of all time!!!

You're a dope..never change.

By the way..Kasak was at 149 last year not 141. Let me know the seeding criteria that has anything to do with last year?

As far as Barr..you're just being dopey..but it is what it is

 

[MSU158]

You're a dope..never change.

By the way..Kasak was at 149 last year not 141. Let me know the seeding criteria that has anything to do with last year?

As far as Barr..you're just being dopey..but it is what it is

Also, did you miss the part where I said I have no issue with their seeds? Why am I asking? Of course you did.... I was simply making a point that they didn't get knocked ANYWHERE.

As far as Barr goes, are you really telling me I am being dopey because he is the ONLY one I see where they completely ignore his injury and 6th place conference results while they essentially have penalized EVERYONE else since they made it a point of emphasis???