ADVERTISEMENT

*****Official Cubs 2024 thread*****

Craig Counsell will manage that Horton make it through the season. Counsell wants to win baseball games unlike Ross who just wanted to be a celebrity.
Craig Counsell doesn’t have magic dust for pitchers’ arms. Look around the league and look at what the Cubs have done within their system and pitchers are incrementally stretched. All of baseball does this, especially when a guy is super talented and has significant injury history like Cade Horton.

Let’s revisit this later in the year - the Cubs are going to aim for 120-130 innings from Cade this year and I think there’s a really good chance a fair chunk of those come in Chicago as long as he stays healthy. I fully expect the Cubs and Counsell to manage to get Horton through the season, including having him available to pitch in the post-season. That’s why they’ll likely start him slow.

A full season starter likely gets around 30-32 starts. If you average 5 innings per start, that’s 150-160 innings. If Cade spends April at the complex in extended spring training, that knocks 5 starts out. He goes to AA or AAA for a month in May for probably 3-4 starts minimum, building up to about 6 innings. That’s probably 16-20 innings, minimum, in the minors before. Once he gets to that point, as long as he’s healthy/effective, he’d be in play to come up when there’s a need in the rotation. Once they hit June, you’re now looking at 20-22 starts, which is probably 100-110 innings plus the 15-20 he’s thrown in the minors and that’s about right. That gets him through the season, increases his season load by about 50% over 2023, likely leaves him some post-season innings and then sets him up to be a 150+ innings guy starting in 2025.

If there aren’t any rotation openings by June, he’s pitching about every 6th day in the minors, building up, but still managing the innings load so that he can be full go in Chicago when he’s needed.
 
Craig Counsell doesn’t have magic dust for pitchers’ arms. Look around the league and look at what the Cubs have done within their system and pitchers are incrementally stretched. All of baseball does this, especially when a guy is super talented and has significant injury history like Cade Horton.

Let’s revisit this later in the year - the Cubs are going to aim for 120-130 innings from Cade this year and I think there’s a really good chance a fair chunk of those come in Chicago as long as he stays healthy. I fully expect the Cubs and Counsell to manage to get Horton through the season, including having him available to pitch in the post-season. That’s why they’ll likely start him slow.

A full season starter likely gets around 30-32 starts. If you average 5 innings per start, that’s 150-160 innings. If Cade spends April at the complex in extended spring training, that knocks 5 starts out. He goes to AA or AAA for a month in May for probably 3-4 starts minimum, building up to about 6 innings. That’s probably 16-20 innings, minimum, in the minors before. Once he gets to that point, as long as he’s healthy/effective, he’d be in play to come up when there’s a need in the rotation. Once they hit June, you’re now looking at 20-22 starts, which is probably 100-110 innings plus the 15-20 he’s thrown in the minors and that’s about right. That gets him through the season, increases his season load by about 50% over 2023, likely leaves him some post-season innings and then sets him up to be a 150+ innings guy starting in 2025.

If there aren’t any rotation openings by June, he’s pitching about every 6th day in the minors, building up, but still managing the innings load so that he can be full go in Chicago when he’s needed.
Guy, you’re trying to talk rational to the board loon. No need to try to talk baseball with him, he doesn’t know what’s going on in baseball, or any facet of life.
 
Craig Counsell doesn’t have magic dust for pitchers’ arms. Look around the league and look at what the Cubs have done within their system and pitchers are incrementally stretched. All of baseball does this, especially when a guy is super talented and has significant injury history like Cade Horton.

Let’s revisit this later in the year - the Cubs are going to aim for 120-130 innings from Cade this year and I think there’s a really good chance a fair chunk of those come in Chicago as long as he stays healthy. I fully expect the Cubs and Counsell to manage to get Horton through the season, including having him available to pitch in the post-season. That’s why they’ll likely start him slow.

A full season starter likely gets around 30-32 starts. If you average 5 innings per start, that’s 150-160 innings. If Cade spends April at the complex in extended spring training, that knocks 5 starts out. He goes to AA or AAA for a month in May for probably 3-4 starts minimum, building up to about 6 innings. That’s probably 16-20 innings, minimum, in the minors before. Once he gets to that point, as long as he’s healthy/effective, he’d be in play to come up when there’s a need in the rotation. Once they hit June, you’re now looking at 20-22 starts, which is probably 100-110 innings plus the 15-20 he’s thrown in the minors and that’s about right. That gets him through the season, increases his season load by about 50% over 2023, likely leaves him some post-season innings and then sets him up to be a 150+ innings guy starting in 2025.

If there aren’t any rotation openings by June, he’s pitching about every 6th day in the minors, building up, but still managing the innings load so that he can be full go in Chicago when he’s needed.
I would use Horton as a long reliever thru the season but I’m not going to question what Hoyer and Counsell do with him. Cade is too good of a ball player not to be playing with the Cubs this season.
 
I know more about life than any activist Marxist leech.
Haven’t heard that one from you before! Oh wait, all you do is rinse & repeat the same material because you don’t have the ability to think of anything new on your own. Fingers crossed you come up with something soon, but not holding my breath.
 
  • Like
Reactions: darylhawk
Craig Counsell doesn’t have magic dust for pitchers’ arms. Look around the league and look at what the Cubs have done within their system and pitchers are incrementally stretched. All of baseball does this, especially when a guy is super talented and has significant injury history like Cade Horton.

Let’s revisit this later in the year - the Cubs are going to aim for 120-130 innings from Cade this year and I think there’s a really good chance a fair chunk of those come in Chicago as long as he stays healthy. I fully expect the Cubs and Counsell to manage to get Horton through the season, including having him available to pitch in the post-season. That’s why they’ll likely start him slow.

A full season starter likely gets around 30-32 starts. If you average 5 innings per start, that’s 150-160 innings. If Cade spends April at the complex in extended spring training, that knocks 5 starts out. He goes to AA or AAA for a month in May for probably 3-4 starts minimum, building up to about 6 innings. That’s probably 16-20 innings, minimum, in the minors before. Once he gets to that point, as long as he’s healthy/effective, he’d be in play to come up when there’s a need in the rotation. Once they hit June, you’re now looking at 20-22 starts, which is probably 100-110 innings plus the 15-20 he’s thrown in the minors and that’s about right. That gets him through the season, increases his season load by about 50% over 2023, likely leaves him some post-season innings and then sets him up to be a 150+ innings guy starting in 2025.

If there aren’t any rotation openings by June, he’s pitching about every 6th day in the minors, building up, but still managing the innings load so that he can be full go in Chicago when he’s needed.
As a Brewers fan, I can guarantee CC isn't going to let a young pitcher get deep into games. Usually pulled between 85-95 pitches or 2 times through the order. It generally worked in Milwaukee bc they always had 4-5 high leverage arms in the pen.
 
As a Brewers fan, I can guarantee CC isn't going to let a young pitcher get deep into games. Usually pulled between 85-95 pitches or 2 times through the order. It generally worked in Milwaukee bc they always had 4-5 high leverage arms in the pen.
That’s pretty much what the Cubs have been doing for years. Steele finally pushed past 95 a handful of times this season, but not that many times.
 
James Triantos smashed the ball in the AFL, and has been named the offensive MVP. Triantos has tremendous ability to place the bat on the ball, striking out just 11 percent of the time this past season in Myrtle Beach. He did not show much power while coming off a torn meniscus injury, but in the AFL his numbers popped up a bit. The pitching can be somewhat inconsistent in the AFL, fringe guys and coming off injury guys are about as prevalent as legit prospects, but there are usually enough good arms and velocity to make it a good challenge for hitters. Triantos hit .400+ over the 30+ game season. That is impressive.
He should post to AA in 2024, and along with a hopeful boost in power the.organization will have to figure out a consistent position for him.
https://www.mlb.com/news/cubs-prosp...rizona-fall-league-offensive-player-of-the-ye
 
  • Like
Reactions: hawkfan0319
Craig Counsel will be introduced to the media tomorrow. These things aren't always very informative. The Brewers have seemingly declined to file a tampering complaint (They had no case), but I suspect we won't hear too much about a timeline of how Jed and Craig came to hook up. What I am interested in hearing is philosophy, and any nuggets about promises of roster construction. Hiring Counsel was an aggressive move, did Jed promise aggression in pursuing a more robust roster? Did Thom Ricketts get involved in these talks and what was his input on roster construction?
 
James Triantos smashed the ball in the AFL, and has been named the offensive MVP. Triantos has tremendous ability to place the bat on the ball, striking out just 11 percent of the time this past season in Myrtle Beach. He did not show much power while coming off a torn meniscus injury, but in the AFL his numbers popped up a bit. The pitching can be somewhat inconsistent in the AFL, fringe guys and coming off injury guys are about as prevalent as legit prospects, but there are usually enough good arms and velocity to make it a good challenge for hitters. Triantos hit .400+ over the 30+ game season. That is impressive.
He should post to AA in 2024, and along with a hopeful boost in power the.organization will have to figure out a consistent position for him.
https://www.mlb.com/news/cubs-prosp...rizona-fall-league-offensive-player-of-the-ye
There’s a lot to like about Triantos. He’s also still maturing into his frame and has a ways to go to be MLB-ready, but he’s young and certainly has the talent to get there.
 
There’s a lot to like about Triantos. He’s also still maturing into his frame and has a ways to go to be MLB-ready, but he’s young and certainly has the talent to get there.
He was one of the youngest guys in the AFL, and was young for high A last season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hawkifann
The Cubs need to build through their minor league system. The highest paid scouting department is cheaper than a Seyia Suzuki or Ian Happ contract.
 
So you wouldn’t sign Shohei Ohtani?
Nope. I don’t want the circus. I want a baseball team. He never won anything in Anaheim why would he win anything in Chicago. Othani is an entertainer not a ball player. He’s like Sammy Sosa most of his home runs and strikeouts are meaningless. Can’t come through in the clutch.
 
The Cubs need to build through their minor league system. The highest paid scouting department is cheaper than a Seyia Suzuki or Ian Happ contract.
I know you are considered a Troll in these conversations; but are you serious here? They have built a top 10, arguably top 5, farm system, so not sure what you are hoping for
 
Nope. I don’t want the circus. I want a baseball team. He never won anything in Anaheim why would he win anything in Chicago. Othani is an entertainer not a ball player. He’s like Sammy Sosa most of his home runs and strikeouts are meaningless. Can’t come through in the clutch.
Do you even realize you contradict yourself in this statement?
 
Nope. I don’t want the circus. I want a baseball team. He never won anything in Anaheim why would he win anything in Chicago. Othani is an entertainer not a ball player. He’s like Sammy Sosa most of his home runs and strikeouts are meaningless. Can’t come through in the clutch.
Awesome. I know where to place your opinion if I didn’t before.
 
You guys handle yourselves as you will in this thread, but I for one cannot understand why some of you waste time with trolls. This is a nice, informative thread. Why waste your time with someone who only detracts from it?
 
So you wouldn’t sign Shohei Ohtani?
Count me as another that does not want to sign Ohtani. Not because he isn't a great player, he is, it's more to do with payroll and roster construction. I am never a fan of paying huge money and taking on an albatross contract rewarding past performance. Inevitably the player is going to get hurt and spend at least a little time on the IR, and Ohtani has already had two significant injuries to his arm, or the production drops off as the player ages. Just too much money to tie up into one player.

I understand you need to spend some money on star players, I just prefer to keep the roster nimble and flexible and only overpay for short term contracts you can get yourself out of.
 
How many years is a team going to have to give to Ohtani?

That is my concern
Probably 10-12. It only matters if the team that signs him isn’t willing to spend around it. There are so many upsides, though:
  • Elite LH offensive talent
  • Chance at having an above-average LHP starter in 2025
  • Cubs would make money hand over fist globally, especially in Japan
  • If he can’t come back as a pitcher, he’s a really good athlete and would likely be an above-average RF
  • Has the presence and reputation to be a guy that other players want to play with - could help the Cubs be a big draw for future FAs
Cubs may also be heading into a window where they could have quite a few players on pre-arb and early arb contracts, which will help them absorb Ohtani’s cost.
 
Probably 10-12. It only matters if the team that signs him isn’t willing to spend around it. There are so many upsides, though:
  • Elite LH offensive talent
  • Chance at having an above-average LHP starter in 2025
  • Cubs would make money hand over fist globally, especially in Japan
  • If he can’t come back as a pitcher, he’s a really good athlete and would likely be an above-average RF
  • Has the presence and reputation to be a guy that other players want to play with - could help the Cubs be a big draw for future FAs
Cubs may also be heading into a window where they could have quite a few players on pre-arb and early arb contracts, which will help them absorb Ohtani’s cost.
10-12 years has disaster written all over it the back half of that contract. No thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TC Nole OX
Well what about the first half of the contract? Wouldn’t contending every year make it worth it?
It would for me. I also think his offensive game is going to age well, so I can see him being an above average power hitter well into his late 30s.
 
It would for me. I also think his offensive game is going to age well, so I can see him being an above average power hitter well into his late 30s.
But don’t you get it?! The Angles never won so therefore Ohtani is guaranteed to be a loser his whole career.
 
Contend like the Angels have contended during his prime years? No guarantees signing Ohtani means we contend.
Seems you’re trolling, but the two are not remotely compatible. Angels never had a top farm system when Ohtani was there. They actually had a window to win, but they wound up with an all-time bust of an FA signing in Anthony Rendon (who seemed a good get at the time) and the guy who was going to be Shohei’s co-ace, Tyler Skaggs, died tragically.

Angels were very top-heavy with the massive Trout & Rendon contracts and didn’t have the young, cost-controlled talent to supplement the elite guys and help make everything work. Hopefully that is not going to be an issue for the Cubs over the next 5 years.
 
Big week. Prospects being added to the 40-man. Award announcements. Non-tender deadline. Will be some movement on the roster. What are ya'll thinking?

I think Hodge and Horn get added to the 40-man, although I wouldn't be surprised if neither were. I think Steele will finish 4th in Cy Young voting. I think Heuer gets non-tendered (then signed to a minor league deal), and 2-3 others are at-risk for it.

40-man is currently at 37, and I expect that it will probably be right around there going into the winter meetings.

Something to keep me busy this week leading up to the Illinois game.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT