PSU scholarships

[HawkFT]

While all this banter is good and fun, the point is with ELITE coaches and settings like Iowa, tOSU, OSU, how does Cael RELOAD with the TOP recruits annually. Even Gable
Didn't do that. He was a wizard (he's Gable).

Cael has the top of the top at almost every weight every year now and continues to be successful at luring (insert name) from parts unknown to be a part of the fun bunch while brands, Smith, Ryan and everyone else in the wrestling world (except PSU fans) are left scratching their head. Just saying it doesn't add up. Now throw in all the data provided (32 on athletic aid), money is coming from somewhere (they aren't all paying their own way) to get recruits to come there. There are other elite programs out there to go to like tOSU, OSU, Iowa, Nebraska (Burroughs). So when you can have an elite training setting and favorable money, how does he get these guys year after year at every weight. This has NEVER been done, even at Iowa or Okie State the original dynasties.

 

[Bobpsu]

What's your argument here re: Brands? VaTech would have been a perennial contender with Brands on staff. He recruited 3 future NCAA finalists to VaTech in a single class.

The difference is, of course, that everyone knew Brands would take the Iowa job in a heartbeat if offered. It's his alma mater and a top tier program.

Bael, OTOH, forced out his own coach, and then proceeded to destroy his alma mater because he couldn't get it done at a top tier program. Who needs enemies when ISU has friends like that.

Btw, nobody is saying recruiting is the whole story. We're ALL saying it's a gigantic part of it though, which you seem unwilling to concede.

I think you have yourself in a headlock!

 

[dicemen99]

Tens of thousands of students do not pass up free rides to instead pay their own way every year.

That's not what he stated. He clearly meant that tens of thousands of students (actually it's more like hundreds of thousands) pay all or part of their college tuition.

Kid's pass up money everywhere. PSU, Iowa, Rutgers, yeah even Minnesota. Because you love to muddy the waters you'll probably never acknowledge it.

I've posted before about a situation I am involved in THIS year. Multiple scholarship offers including a full ride. Came down to an out of state school (B1G) offering him a partial which would end up costing about 100K (a large chunk deferred, but you still have to pay it) over 5 years to attend vs. an EIWA school offering the whole boat. Neither I or his mother are wealthy people. Yet the decision was his. He wanted B1G very badly and was willing to accept a significant amount of debt on the back end to do it. Fortunately, IMO, the EIWA school really stepped up their recruiting at the end and made him comfortable attending their school. However, if the B1G school came back and made that overall cost in the 50K or so range - it might have got the job done.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of wrestlers choosing to pay tuition over free rides. There are plenty of people wealthier than me and they are already laying out 5K or more per year all through a kid's youth career. Plus, many families qualify for financial aid which does NOT count against the 9.9 (as long as it granted just like any other student - which no school is going to f' around with just for a wrestler because they risk losing their federal funding for the entire school). Much of this can be loans, which means you still have to pay for it eventually, but deferring the cost eases the pain. For many 150K amortized over a lifetime is not too big a price to pay to follow your dream.

 

[dicemen99]

Sanderson was the top assistant, top recruiter and right hand man for Douglas before he was actually the head coach so keep that in mind with your talk about what kind of program he inherited. Sure Sanderson can coach, obviously he is very good, one of the best. His brother and Cunningham are probably right there with him. I don't think there is any way you can say they are the best at development when they are working with top 5 to top 10 overall recruits at most every weight to start with. They may very well be but it is hard to prove it when the starting talent they have is on average so much higher than the field. Bottom line is Sanderson likes to win, how much ISU was willing to pay him was not relevant because he likes to win so much that not being better than Iowa and Brands when he was at ISU was driving him nuts. He will do whatever it takes to win, the aw shucks calm demeanor is for show. He has an gigantic ego and he loves to win, most good ones do. He saw PSU and the resources from support to regional talent as the fastest and best shot to win.

PSU went 9-1 at this year's NCAAs in upsets against seed. Only 1 loss to a wrestler seeded below. Keep in mind as #1 seeds, Retherford and Nolf can not contribute to this stat unless it is a loss. Iowa had a very nice tourney and went 8-3 I think.

PSU has consistently met and exceeded seed at NCAAs over this run. Not an easy thing to do at all at nationals - just ask OK State. You can delude yourself into thinking it is all about talent acquisition (which is a critical component) but you would be wrong. It would be difficult to say any staff in the country is better than them, sans recruiting. And when you add in the recruiting - you get this run.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

PSU went 9-1 at this year's NCAAs in upsets against seed. Only 1 loss to a wrestler seeded below. Keep in mind as #1 seeds, Retherford and Nolf can not contribute to this stat unless it is a loss. Iowa had a very nice tourney and went 8-3 I think.

PSU has consistently met and exceeded seed at NCAAs over this run. Not an easy thing to do at nationals all - just ask OK State. You can delude yourself into thinking it is all about talent acquisition (which is a critical component) but you would be wrong. It would be difficult to say any staff in the country is better than them, sans recruiting. And when you add in the recruiting - you get this run.

And yet when you took away the recruiting they didn't sniff a title, let alone 6 in 7 years. Odd case.

 

[dicemen99]

And yet when you took away the recruiting they didn't sniff a title, let alone 6 in 7 years. Odd case.

Yes, they didn't sniff a title under Sunderland. Is that your point?

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Yes, they didn't sniff a title under Sunderland. Is that your point?

Nice shtick

 

[dicemen99]

Nice shtick

Honestly, I have no idea the point you are trying to make. Elaborate if you will

 

[goethe14]

Honestly, I have no idea the point you are trying to make. Elaborate if you will

He doesn't have a point I quoted many of the same points you did he will kindly disregard all the valid points and just yell recruiting Because that's the last glimmer of hope he has to hold on to. First it was Caels double class then it was there will never be another Ruth and Taylor now it's they get better recruits than anyone else and obviously has nothing to do with coaching or development

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Honestly, I have no idea the point you are trying to make. Elaborate if you will

You said the following:

"PSU has consistently met and exceeded seed at NCAAs over this run. Not an easy thing to do at nationals all - just ask OK State. You can delude yourself into thinking it is all about talent acquisition (which is a critical component) but you would be wrong."

I'm saying, as compared to where Bael was at Iowa State (top 5 program), the difference is indeed talent acquisition. When he dumped his loyal ex-wife ISU for the hot young secretary PSU, he literally came out and stated that the reason was talent acquisition.

Again, not sure why this is controversial.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

He doesn't have a point I quoted many of the same points you did he will kindly disregard all the valid points and just yell recruiting Because that's the last glimmer of hope he has to hold on to. First it was Caels double class then it was there will never be another Ruth and Taylor now it's they get better recruits than anyone else and obviously has nothing to do with coaching or development

What are you talking about bro? Nobody on here thinks Bael would be a bad high school coach. He knows his way around a wrestling mat.

Bael has a track record at two schools. The difference between the two schools is the recruiting pipeline. Again, this is so non-controversial that Bael literally stated that was his reason for moving to PSU.

I never had a problem with the kids who followed Bael to PSU. ISU did the right thing by releasing those wrestlers.

 

[dicemen99]

You said the following:

"PSU has consistently met and exceeded seed at NCAAs over this run. Not an easy thing to do at nationals all - just ask OK State. You can delude yourself into thinking it is all about talent acquisition (which is a critical component) but you would be wrong."

I'm saying, as compared to where Bael was at Iowa State (top 5 program), the difference is indeed talent acquisition. When he dumped his loyal ex-wife ISU for the hot young secretary PSU, he literally came out and stated that the reason was talent acquisition.

Again, not sure why this is controversial.

Yes, he has better talent at PSU than he did during his 3 year run at Iowa State - was that hard to state?

Who knows what he would have been able to do at Iowa State - yes, he was at a disadvantage vs. Iowa in-state at that time (ironic that now many Hawk fans whine about Brand's being at a disadvantage to him now) - but he had just gotten DT as a recruit.

Cael left ISU for a more fertile recruiting area, but most people fail to recognize he also left for a university that was going to dump a LOT more resources into the wrestling program than the one he was at. PSU spent over 2.2 million dollars last year on their wrestling program - that number exceeds anything I think I've seen in the past for Iowa, but I haven't seen any recent numbers. At worst, it's probably a close second to Iowa and Iowa State is probably at just over 50% of that outlay.

I have two close friends that are/were head coaches at the D1 level. This is a big thing for these guys - the resources you have behind you.

 

[goethe14]

What are you talking about bro? Nobody on here thinks Bael would be a bad high school coach. He knows his way around a wrestling mat.

Bael has a track record at two schools. The difference between the two schools is the recruiting pipeline. Again, this is so non-controversial that Bael literally stated that was his reason for moving to PSU.

I never had a problem with the kids who followed Bael to PSU. ISU did the right thing by releasing those wrestlers.

Lol high school coach. Isn't it time for you to yell Andrew Long now. Have a good one bro, Maybe you can work your way up to 3rd soon.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Yes, he has better talent at PSU than he did during his 3 year run at Iowa State - was that hard to state?

Who knows what he would have been able to do at Iowa State - yes, he was at a disadvantage vs. Iowa in-state at that time (ironic that now many Hawk fans whine about Brand's being at a disadvantage to him now) - but he had just gotten DT as a recruit.

Cael left ISU for a more fertile recruiting area, but most people fail to recognize he also left for a university that was going to dump a LOT more resources into the wrestling program than the one he was at. PSU spent over 2.2 million dollars last year on their wrestling program - that number exceeds anything I think I've seen in the past for Iowa, but I haven't seen any recent numbers. At worst, it's probably a close second to Iowa and Iowa State is probably at just over 50% of that outlay.

I have two close friends that are/were head coaches at the D1 level. This is a big thing for these guys - the resources you have behind you.

I don't disagree with any of that, except your comment that we don't know what Bael would have done at ISU. While that's true in a literal sense, he spurned his alma mater in a particularly acrimonious way in order to go to PSU, so clearly Bael himself thought the location and $$$ was important enough. That speaks volumes to me. I have no loyalty to ISU (nor Iowa for that matter) being that I'm an east coast guy, but what Bael did to them was truly gutless, selfish, and disgusting.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Lol high school coach. Isn't it time for you to yell Andrew Long now. Have a good one bro, Maybe you can work your way up to 3rd soon.

(guy who didn't get what I wrote)

 

[dicemen99]

I don't disagree with any of that, except your comment that we don't know what Bael would have done at ISU. While that's true in a literal sense, he spurned his alma mater in a particularly acrimonious way in order to go to PSU, so clearly Bael himself thought the location and $$$ was important enough. That speaks volumes to me. I have no loyalty to ISU (nor Iowa for that matter) being that I'm an east coast guy, but what Bael did to them was truly gutless, selfish, and disgusting.

Alma mater is a cop-out. Job decisions are made based on the relationships you have with the people you are working for now/future (have no idea what that was for Cael at ISU), and the opportunity for you to support your family and pursue your goals. At least that is the way it is with most people I know.

I'm a Rutgers grad and if I had a job at RU (I don't) and University of Michigan came calling with a job with more money and potential and a bunch of good guys to work with, I don't think RU would have anything to do with my decision except regarding the area which I was living and the way it fit for my family.

You can support your alma mater in many ways. Doesn't have to be with your vocation.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Yea, I don't get the screwing over ISU thing. Was Cael supposed to be an indentured servant for the rest of his life to ISU? The guy left for what he felt was a better opportunity just like Brands left Va Tech for what he felt was a better opportunity. People leave their employers all the time, even the ones where they got their start.

 

[cidhawkeye]

So what's your point? He's not as good a coach as many think?

Sanderson spent 3 short years at ISU, and inherited a program that had been mediocre when he took it over as the guru known as Bobby Douglas was the face of that program when he was given the reins. All things considered, in his 3 years there, he had ISU moving in the right way in a strong way.

We can agree to disagree, but I think Cael Sanderson and his staff are the best staff in America from a development standpoint. Sorry if that opinion upsets you. And yes, they happen to also reside in a fabulous hotbed of recruiting talent. Couple those two things together and you have a dynasty of a wrestling program--which PSU currently is.

Your opinion doesn't upset me, my bad in giving you a heads up about what was soon to come.

 

[EPC FAN]

If he was so successful, at his own alma mater no less, why'd he run off with his tail between his legs to PSU?

To some extent that's not just a rhetorical question.

Six National Championships in seven years. He ran to a school that hadn't won a national championship since 1953, despite having all that wrestling talent, in State. PSU wrestling alums got sick of it. He was asked to come to Penn State, and paid appropriately. My only wish would be that wrestling had 20 or 30 scholarships.
Listen to his wrestlers. They are telling you what he does, and how he does it. You just don't want to hear it.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

This whole thread

yawn

 

[wasdt21]

i don't understand winning 5 titles and then running to the 4th place teams site to defend my team.

 

[diggerpup]

i don't understand winning 5 titles and then running to the 4th place teams site to defend my team.

There's just as many PSU threads on HR as on BWI. Lmfao.

 

[elvis63]

My son didn't wrestle in college and attended Lehigh btw. He was a great student and received a lot of aid and scholarship money .
I think he entered school with 25 science and math credits from AP testing . He would have qualified for some financial aid or scholarships at Penn State also.

 

[21Guns]

Yes, I've already agreed with you that Bael ran away from ISU with his tail between his legs in order to exploit recruiting advantages at PSU. That, along with questionably taking Andrew Long to get a title in 2011, has led to some very successful years at PSU.

What are these "advantages" you speak of? Are you talking about the level of the sport here in Pennsylvania? Or the population, in that our state has a much greater NUMBER of high school programs than Iowa? Just wondering...?

 

[21Guns]

My son didn't wrestle in college and attended Lehigh btw. He was a great student and received a lot of aid and scholarship money .
I think he entered school with 25 science and math credits from AP testing . He would have qualified for some financial aid or scholarships at Penn State also.

Lehigh is a GREAT school: I had an offer to play football at Lehigh, and at Lafayette also. Thought, and still think, they are terrific places to go to college.

 

[21Guns]

i don't understand winning 5 titles and then running to the 4th place teams site to defend my team.

Iowa is the gold standard, in terms of history. What Oklahoma State did, was back when guys threw giant medicine balls in gymnasiums around, and Betty Grable was the hot chick.

 

[21Guns]

I don't disagree with any of that, except your comment that we don't know what Bael would have done at ISU. While that's true in a literal sense, he spurned his alma mater in a particularly acrimonious way in order to go to PSU, so clearly Bael himself thought the location and $$$ was important enough. That speaks volumes to me. I have no loyalty to ISU (nor Iowa for that matter) being that I'm an east coast guy, but what Bael did to them was truly gutless, selfish, and disgusting.

I have not seen the acrimony from Iowa State fans on our board, though, that you seem to have. What up with that?

 

[SUPERTODD]

It's not envy; it's dislike. I will never root for a single thing Bael does. I haven't like him since he was in college. I'm consistent.

I was not nearly as critical of Smith when Okie State was on top. I was vehemently critical of Hendricks at the time.

The real bottom line is that Bael, knowing he'd never develop into top dog while at ISU, tucked his tail between his legs and ran off to PA. He essentially said as much.

Extending out this "logic", Nick Saban is a bad coach because he could not dominate at MSU, but can at Alabama. Belicheck's success with the Patriots is a farce because he didn't accomplish anything with the Browns. And why couldn't Coach K win a national title at West Point if he is so great? You are allowing your "dislike" to obscure reason.

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

Extending out this "logic", Nick Saban is a bad coach coach because he could not dominate at MSU, but can at Alabama. Belicheck's success with the Patriots is a farce because he didn't accomplish anything with the Browns. And why couldn't Coach K win a national title at West Point if he is so great? You are allowing your "dislike" to obscure reason.

To be clear, you are comparing West Point basketball, a service academy with specialized recruiting requirements and a veritable non-entity in the CBB landscape, to Iowa State Wrestling, which, when Bael left, had finished 2nd in the country 4 times in the previous 10 or so years? Do I have that right?

And did you really bring up Belichick who, you know, got FIRED by the Browns? He didn't leave the team lol.

But please, extend out the "logic" further.

Iowa State was (and maybe it can still be) one of the 5 or 6 PREMIER jobs in the sport. Why couldn't Bael win there?? I thought he was amazing at developing guys??

 

[DodgerHawki]

What are these "advantages" you speak of? Are you talking about the level of the sport here in Pennsylvania? Or the population, in that our state has a much greater NUMBER of high school programs than Iowa? Just wondering...?

My guess is he's referencing the fact that there are more very good high school wrestlers in close proximity to Penn State than Iowa.

 

[elvis63]

Lehigh is a GREAT school: I had an offer to play football at Lehigh, and at Lafayette also. Thought, and still think, they are terrific places to go to college.

He was there for the academics and will get his masters in engineering in only 5 total years .

 

[FrontHeadlock2]

What are these "advantages" you speak of? Are you talking about the level of the sport here in Pennsylvania? Or the population, in that our state has a much greater NUMBER of high school programs than Iowa? Just wondering...?

PA is BY FAR the best state for recruiting in the entire country. NJ and NY are top 10. And they are all right there by State College. And yes, they have way, way more wrestlers, and more elite wrestlers, than any collection of states in the midwest (or anywhere else frankly).

I'm not saying it wasn't smart to go there. The recruiting advantages are second to none. I'm saying it was gutless and defeatist. He screwed over his school because he couldn't get it done there, and knew he never would, which by the way came on the heels of soft coup of his own college coach. As a fan of the sport, that's not something I appreciate, nor are the countless other questionable decisions he's made, such as the Andrew Long saga or the blatant nepotism regarding Cyler and Bubba.

The point of all of this is that Bael's success at PSU is a direct result of his recruiting advantages there, and not his "development" of guys. This is non-controversial, and is the entire reason he left ISU to go to PSU in the first place.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Try understanding the point here dude.

Back in the day, the kids Gable decided to recruit, regardless of ranking, generally came to him with or without schollie money? True or not true?

Recruiting rankings are subjective in wrestling as they are in any sport and have nothing to do with this debate. In Gable's eyes, he got the kids he felt were the best; regardless of recruit ranking. Dan himself says that. It's the same thing now for Sanderson.

The underlying tone here in my opinion with you is you believing Sanderson's success has mostly just to do with the recruits he gets. You'd be wrong if that's what you think. Again, as has been pointed out in this thread, there's a reason top kids go to Sanderson--with or without schollie $$$$. And once they get there, they are developed incredibly well--they just don't stay the same. Agree or disagree?

Try getting past your envy. Give the man his due.

Envy? Get off your faux white horse. I do give the man his due. But if you're arguing that Gable had as incredible of recruiting classes as Cael has had then you're just plain wrong.

 

[frydaze]

Envy? Get off your faux white horse. I do give the man his due. But if you're arguing that Gable had as incredible of recruiting classes as Cael has had then you're just plain wrong.

Jesus man, you still can't comprehend.

Gable had his targeted recruits every year. He got most of them.

Sanderson has his targeted recruits each year. He gets most them.

What rankings existed for either in no way is even the point here and doesn't matter. Rankings are subjective. If Dan Gable wanted to bring in 5 recruits, and he targeted a kid maybe ranked #36 in the nation overall, or #4 at his weight by some nerdy recruiting analyst, that meant that was likely Gable saw that kid as one of his "must get" recruits.

Gable developed talent incredibly well.

Sanderson develops talent incredibly well.

Going to argue any of those points?

 

[HoundedHawk]

Jesus man, you still can't comprehend.

Gable had his targeted recruits every year. He got most of them.

Sanderson has his targeted recruits each year. He gets most them.

What rankings existed for either in no way is even the point here and doesn't matter. Rankings are subjective. If Dan Gable wanted to bring in 5 recruits, and he targeted a kid maybe ranked #36 in the nation overall, or #4 at his weight by some nerdy recruiting analyst, that meant that was likely Gable saw that kid as one of his "must get" recruits.

Gable developed talent incredibly well.

Sanderson develops talent incredibly well.

Going to argue any of those points?

Keep Jesus' name out of it. You're the one failing to comprehend. I'm really starting to suspect you didn't watch that much wrestling in the 80's. The fact is Gable did more with less. It was common knowledge his classes weren't as good as others. Since you don't seem to recognize that, you're obviously just a Johnny-come-lately to the wrestling stuff. So, no, I would not agree that Gable got most of them in comparison to what Cael gets. Cael brings in the gold. Gable, the alchemist, turned men into gold.

 

[Azchief32]

Jesus man, you still can't comprehend.

Gable had his targeted recruits every year. He got most of them.

Sanderson has his targeted recruits each year. He gets most them.

What rankings existed for either in no way is even the point here and doesn't matter. Rankings are subjective. If Dan Gable wanted to bring in 5 recruits, and he targeted a kid maybe ranked #36 in the nation overall, or #4 at his weight by some nerdy recruiting analyst, that meant that was likely Gable saw that kid as one of his "must get" recruits.

Gable developed talent incredibly well.

Sanderson develops talent incredibly well.

Going to argue any of those points?

Frydaze...this you should take a look at the guys that Gable actually brought in. For every Lincoln Mac, there were two Schwabs. On this year's roster alone, 3/5 PSU champs had international experience with two winning either a Cadet (Zain) or Junior World (Hall) gold. The rankings do matter, especially now, because all of the top wrestlers have largely been tested against each other before college. Back in the day, it was more regional or state by state. You could have a Jimmy Zalesky come in with only two state titles in Iowa and win three NCAA titles. Gable scouted for "like minded" guys, not necessarily accolades. Today, we know who the best kids are with very few surprises. So many threads on this topic. For example, we knew Kemerer was elite coming in because he had been tested by both the best in PA and in the U.S. Fargos, Super 32s, Ironmans, UWW/FILA. Out of Kemerer and Vincezo Joseph, Cael got Cenzo because Cenzo is the guy that pinned Kemerer in the state finals plus won close matches in freestyle I believe....Cenzo was a step or two better than, and he's a step or two better now.

Back in Gable's day, mostly wealthier kids could travel all around to tournaments...not much club support. Now clubs are everywhere and the talent level coming out of h.s. is exponentially better than in Gable's day. Recruiting is much more important than development now. So many more chances with success with a top ten kid now than 20 years ago.

 

[dicemen99]

Frydaze...this you should take a look at the guys that Gable actually brought in. For every Lincoln Mac, there were two Schwabs. On this year's roster alone, 3/5 PSU champs had international experience with two winning either a Cadet (Zain) or Junior World (Hall) gold. The rankings do matter, especially now, because all of the top wrestlers have largely been tested against each other before college. Back in the day, it was more regional or state by state. You could have a Jimmy Zalesky come in with only two state titles in Iowa and win three NCAA titles. Gable scouted for "like minded" guys, not necessarily accolades. Today, we know who the best kids are with very few surprises. So many threads on this topic. For example, we knew Kemerer was elite coming in because he had been tested by both the best in PA and in the U.S. Fargos, Super 32s, Ironmans, UWW/FILA. Out of Kemerer and Vincezo Joseph, Cael got Cenzo because Cenzo is the guy that pinned Kemerer in the state finals plus won close matches in freestyle I believe....Cenzo was a step or two better than, and he's a step or two better now.

Back in Gable's day, mostly wealthier kids could travel all around to tournaments...not much club support. Now clubs are everywhere and the talent level coming out of h.s. is exponentially better than in Gable's day. Recruiting is much more important than development now. So many more chances with success with a top ten kid now than 20 years ago.

Your points are valid but this whole argument is useless. Impossible to compare what Gable did to what Sanderson is doing because the entire landscape of wrestling has changed.

I think what Frydaze objects to is this notion that Gable was better because he took some (not all) unheralded guys to great heights. That was possible then, but the that was a different world. We had a kid from our HS start wrestling in 9th grade, become a varsity starter in 11th, become a PA AAA State Champ in 12th and become a National Champ four years later. That was possible then, and although not common, not an isolated instance, but is virtually impossible now. I think Gable himself would tell you he would have to do it like Cael does now - as you point out.

I think Frydaze has a valid point when he says Gable targeted recruits and he got most of them. He had to target kids with athleticism, work ethic and the right mindset to prosper in his system. So for Gable that was like getting the top recruits.

Today, it's different. A kid with the right attributes is just not going to be able to get it done - become a national champion - without an extensive wrestling background. Kids today are incredibly more advanced as wrestlers than they were in the 70s and 80s at a younger age. Look at the statistics of NCAA champs and AAs that were Fargo champs or AAs. Nine out of the 10 NCAA champs this year were selected to wrestle in the Dapper Dan - and the 10th would have been if Kyle Snyder was not at his weight.

 

[Ja1339]

Holy smokes, there are more crybabies on this board than in a maternity ward. You guys have an incredible winning tradition, but gracious losing is certainly in short supply.

 

[csiebott]

the question then would be; how long does the ncaa allow a rotc scholarship to be exempt...or is it even exempt now.....since all scholarships are included in what the ncaa looks at?

ROTC scholarships don't come from the school. Tuition is paid by DoD. Does this even need to be said?

 

[zzs006]

Parents are absolutely willing to pay for their child to go to the school of their choosing and pursue their goals and dreams. I say this because it happened to me. I had full ride offers to multiple division 2 schools but I wanted to wrestle division 1. Clarion, Lock Haven, Ohio University, and University of Wyoming were all offering me around .5 to .6 of a full ride. My parents gladly paid the other portion so I could chase my dream. This isn't uncommon! People want to be a part of what PSU has going right now and they will pay to do it. Every starter on that team could have gotten a full ride if they went elsewhere but they want to win both as a team and on a personal level and PSU is the best place to do that right now!