So apparently my brother and SIL are swingers
- Thread starter Hoosierhawkeye
- Start date
I'm in agreement that the biggest issue is that they are apparently broadcasting this over social media. It isn't my business how others conduct their marriages or sex within or outside of their marriage to the extent that it is legal. I personally don't understand it and it would never be a part of my marriage but if it doesn't affect me it is not my business. The Q stuff and the unsecured guns would be far more unsettling than an unconventional sex life.
Every action has an equal reaction.
The old adage that Europeans often say is "Americans: Puritans in public, whores behind closed doors." That's a good summation.
Look at the language attached to sexual behavior-- Naught, nasty, dirty, obscene, filthy, even depraved, etc., etc.. When a culture attaches feelings of guilt, shame, and disgust to a behavior that is absolutely one of the most commonly-enjoyed activities... you're bound to get a chaotic mess of misbehavior! The church-- Christian churches-- has been convincing its legions that Hell awaits people who enjoy practically ANYTHING that occurs outside the walls of the church itself. That permeates into the general population, too.
The problem isn't stemming "from sex." It's stemming from the society's errors in thinking ABOUT sex! Sex is not just enjoyable, but absolutely normal and absolutely necessary for the species to continue. The way people characterize their God is basically a MAN that doesn't want to you engage in sex unless it's to procreate, and of course, only the man gets any pleasure or has any incentive to do it.
It depends who and where they are swinging with and what arrangements they have with the other swingers. I mean if they don't really know them they could be swinging say at their house on any whim unscheduled with the other swingers having a key to their house. Those swingers may be sexual predators as well. You just don't know and don't care to get into the details of it all, so it might be extremely unsettling if you dug into the details and then did a background check on the potential swingers they bring in their house.
Off the top of my head:
Teenage pregnancy
Sex addiction
Porn addiction
Sexually transmitted diseases
Sexual exploitation of children (and adults)
Sex trafficking
Divorce (Sex/image expectations and lack thereof is a top 3 cause of divorce after money and communication issues). The subsequent issues divorce brings on society are well known.
Just look at Instagram and guess what the focus of our youth is. We live in a world where we are getting rid of the ACT/SAT but are paying 18 year olds to wear skimpy clothes and post tons of pictures of themselves on the ‘Gram.
I wouldn’t fault religion for this. You specifically mention Christianity so let’s focus there. God calls anything that you elevate above Him bad be it sex, money, whatever. Jesus never once in the Bible shames anyone for their sin (see Jesus and the prostitute). Now, human beings are faulty and not close to perfect. Human beings have brought shame, but not Christianity.
Sex is a powerful tool (pun intended). It was never, ever intended to be elevated to the status it has today. It is a gift from God afterall. When the gift becomes more important than the gift giver is when problems happen.
Humans created Christianity. I don't characterize God as a male. Humans that operate within Christianity, or whatever belief system that separates them from the source of life, are so bogged-down with judgemental ideology that it's difficult to see anything else.
Why would the other swingers have a key to their house? Maybe they live on a commune?
I don't think you get to keep the other people's keys.......don't think that's the way a key party works (just going off of The Ice Storm). I could be wrong, however.
Interesting thought process to get from being swingers, to swingers with keys to the back door (hehe) to background checks on visitors to your house.
It's a ridiculous post to respond to. Implying that we are discouraged to have fun outside of the church. Saying that we are only allowed to have sex for procreation?
Come on
The church teaches that a person's sexual behavior should be responsible, reserving it for marriage. Once you are married you can do it with your spouse as often as the two of you like. But somehow you guys (and you are not the only one) keep insisting that the church teaches that the only reason we can have sex is for procreation.
The eye roll is in that no one attaches feelings of shame, guilt or disgust to the act of sex.
Really? NO ONE? Then you disagree that the language and vocabulary examples that I mentioned are NOT the ones that our culture uses to describe being sexual activities and behaviors?
To be fair, sex has historically always been a focus of young adults. That said there used to be at least some encouragement from culture to engage in responsible sexual practices. Now the message is "free for all".
In my view we've taken responsibility out of the mix.
LOL-teenage pregnancy is down by half since 1991.
Divorce?
Sex addiction? Yeah-that did not just happen recently - you ever heard what the oldest profession is?
STDs are trending back up the last 6 years. Lot of signs that this is more to do with challenges to our public health system/education
Sadly, children have been exploited across the globe and in America, long before now, not because of our modern ways. Or 18 year olds wearing skimpy clothes instead of studying for their ACTs (how much time you spend on the gram looking at those pictures?)
So, you responded, anyway.
The "church" is a vague term. If you want to deny that the church has not been leading the charge in shaming sexual activity and behavior for... thousands of years... be my guest. DOn't expect anyone to take you seriously. If YOUR church doesn't, well congratulations is due. But, there's a long way to go!
LOL-teenage pregnancy is down by half since 1991.
Divorce?
Sex addiction? Yeah-that did not just happen recently - you ever heard what the oldest profession is?
STDs are trending back up the last 6 years. Lot of signs that this is more to do with challenges to our public health system/education
Sadly, children have been exploited across the globe and in America, long before now, not because of our modern ways. Or 18 year olds wearing skimpy clothes instead of studying for their ACTs (how much time you spend on the gram looking at those pictures?)
I will counter with this.
U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households
Almost a quarter of U.S. children under 18 live with one parent and no other adults, more than three times the share of children around the world who do so.
www.pewresearch.org
I don't know the details as I do not participate in this and OP didn't want to dig into the details. So I am saying who knows if they even have it at their residence at all and everything is somewhere else. But with not knowing the possibilities on how it plays out could be very unsettling is all I was getting at.
Sure it shames sexual activity outside of marriage.
I certainly have never felt any shame about having sex in marriage.
I had 3 kids between July 2013 and January 2016. . . I heard a bunch of secular people telling me to tone it down and "get off your wife". The members of my church never said that, and it certainly wasn't a secret because all three were baptized in public.
Now who's shaming sex? Certainly didn't feel like the church was shaming me for what I was doing.
Yeah but that is not new...it's not something that just happened in these "scary" modern times. Divorce rates and single family homes been common for quite sometime in the US and not a result of " today’s society having a lot of problems stemming from sex when society is also permissive of so much sex." Unless by today you mean 1960-2021I will counter with this.
U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households
Almost a quarter of U.S. children under 18 live with one parent and no other adults, more than three times the share of children around the world who do so.
Humans helped form Christianity, but let's not forget the true origin. Come'on man! That's a helpful tidbit of context to include.
Clearly, the "you do you" and the "if it feels good, do it" mentality is working. All that has done for Earth over its history is bring sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns! We should not have any rules, guidelines, hell any morality at all amirite? Free love!
You answered your own question at the very beginning. You're proving my original point with great vigor. Thank you!
That's some spicy meatballs.
If it were a member of my family I would NOT want to know about it.
Sure I'm talking about since the 60's. That's when we started to get extremely permissive with sex. And it wasn't that long ago history wise. I mean I know a few people who were born and grew up in the 50's and 60's that are still alive.
Sure less divorces now. . . also less marriage and worse more children born outside of marriage. . . Which has led to single parent households.
How? It's not the act of sex that the church shames it's the irresponsibility.
Quite frankly it's the same thing with alcohol, drugs, guns and a lot of other things. If you get plastered and decide you are going to drive and people try to stop you, they arn't "shaming" you drinking. They are shaming you driving drunk. . . they are shaming your irresponsibility.
It was secular people who shamed me for having too much sex when we had 3 kids close together. Not religious people.
Awesome work excusing it all away and rationalizing it! I didn't realize society just cleared up all those problems!LOL-teenage pregnancy is down by half since 1991.
Divorce?
Sex addiction? Yeah-that did not just happen recently - you ever heard what the oldest profession is?
STDs are trending back up the last 6 years. Lot of signs that this is more to do with challenges to our public health system/education
Sadly, children have been exploited across the globe and in America, long before now, not because of our modern ways. Or 18 year olds wearing skimpy clothes instead of studying for their ACTs (how much time you spend on the gram looking at those pictures?)
That graph is awesome and basically doesn't say what you think it says! The footnotes on the divorce graph themselves are inconsequential! Nope, no problem at all and nothing to see here! Nailed it!
Most of those other countries with less single parent households are also much more open when it comes to sex. Specifically in Europe.I will counter with this.
U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households
Almost a quarter of U.S. children under 18 live with one parent and no other adults, more than three times the share of children around the world who do so.
Now, you're projecting some preconceived idea onto me-- Peace, Love, Dope??? Do those things threaten you, or the institutions that you decided to worship? I don't partake of ANY recreational intoxicants.Humans helped form Christianity, but let's not forget the true origin. Come'on man! That's a helpful tidbit of context to include.
Clearly, the "you do you" and the "if it feels good, do it" mentality is working. All that has done for Earth over its history is bring sunshine, rainbows, and unicorns! We should not have any rules, guidelines, hell any morality at all amirite? Free love!
And, I am of the firm belief that Jesus of Nazareth mentioned in the Bible was not here for the purpose of starting another boring religion. He, like many other enlightened people throughout history, was trying to get people to realize that God and Us are one-in-the-same. "I and the Father are One." But, it scares the power structure of any society when people discover that we are responsible for everything... not some separate God figure that acts on our behalf.
We are never separated from the source of Life that is the Creator of all things! The church/religion-- especially western religion-- teaches that all of us are "less than" God, while, at the same time, dropping hints that we're also God's perfect creation. It's so loaded with inconsistencies. Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, etc., were fully aware that God is you, and me, and us, and everything in between. If that is "Peace, Love, Dope"... okay!
And the ones with the lowest rates overall have the heaviest enforcement of sexual responsibility. So I'm not sure that you've proved anything here.
Do you really think those people were shaming you for having too much sex? Most likely they were teasing you about having kids so close together. It's all stupid. Another thing that is no one else's business unless they are being asked to provide for said children.
Okay, I can absolutely agree that there is a responsibility, and a "balance" that lies in almost any behavior. Doing anything "too much" can have potentially negative consequences.
If you're only having sex to procreate... then that also helps to confirm my assessment of the "morality" requisites of the church and religion in America.
And, they may have been questioning your responsibility. No one needs more than 2 children nowadays. Children don't die in childhood like they did in the previous 2000 years. I'm not shaming sex. I'm saying, we have too many people as it is!
Welp, that's a big ol "F" in Theology class for you today.
Was really hoping for pics of SiL. Leaving very disappointed.
No we don't. . . We have an extremely low population density in this country and a low native born birth rate to boot!!! As I said before I don't believe that we should rely solely on immigration for population growth . . . and population growth is important for our economy and way of life.
And we are not having sex only to have children. . . We're done having children, I got snipped like 5 years ago. And we're still having sex about once a week, sometimes more.
If they live in the same shitty town and attend the same church as OP they are probably gonna be publicly shamed and shunned from the congregation (if they don't stop and immediately repent). At least OP found someone similarly judgemental and closed minded to go through life with.
Im thankful that despite growing up in a relatively small town I didn't turn out to be a gossipy, judgemental simpleton who has to get up in everyone's business. Opposite actually. If this is what made myself and wife happy and my brother decided to gossip about it on a message board he could go f*ck himself. JFC some religious people are the worst
