Tea leaves say Teske to PSU
- Thread starter edquinn06
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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I would assume and hope that no universities would do as you have just stated, "verbally telling a recruit that the club will take care of you if you choose to take part after graduation". "It's not against the rules". Any indication of immediate or future benefits communicated even verbally to a potential recruit would be a violation of NCAA rules. That indication of potential benefits would be a violation if it came from a coach on staff, a booster of any university, or a participant in the sport at any university.
I'm an Iowa State fan. Do you think that the University of Iowa doesn't use the fact that they've put a million offensive linemen into the NFL as a recruiting pitch? I would. You'd be stupid not to. That fits the bolded right? Any indication of future benefits?
I'm not saying Penn State or Iowa cheats. That bolded passage is as vague as it gets.
All the info a recruit really needs about opportunities for post-graduation benefits can come from current and former members of the club. The coaches don't really need to say much beyond "Check out the club and talk to the guys about their experiences." A wink isn't even necessary. There can't be anything against the rules in a recruit touring a club facility and gleaning info from its members.
And if that is how it's being done, then I don't really see where there is a "loophole" in the rules. Disallowing a recruit to select a school based on his perceived prospects post-graduation would be ludicrous. Almost everyone strives to pick a school that will set them up well for an easy transition into a career path of their choosing.
And if that is how it's being done, then I don't really see where there is a "loophole" in the rules. Disallowing a recruit to select a school based on his perceived prospects post-graduation would be ludicrous. Almost everyone strives to pick a school that will set them up well for an easy transition into a career path of their choosing.
Not really. It's only a loop hole if nothing is said or indicated to the athlete while he or she is being recruited. Boosters are actually as liable as members of the coaching staff when offering or providing benefits.
i am saying once again: it does not have to be a coach who indicates or provides potential benefits over and above scholarships. Anyone who is perceived as a booster or supporter or has connections with a school would be included and it would be a violation. If the recruit on his own is seeing future benefits with none be indicated by coaches, current athletes, or boosters then of course he has that right. Your other post stated future benefits offered verbally.
The difference being Iowa doesn't fund the NFL or has any say about who makes it or who doesn't.
In sports all you can ask for is a level playing field, and may the best team or individual win. That has never happened and it's never going to happen, regardless of how many rules you put in place. Work hard and take your chances. Sometimes the good guys win.
This has nothing to do with Penn State. If they are indeed above board, find out what they're doing and do it better.
Like i've said multiple times in this thread. I don't think anybody is breaking NCAA rules.
Why are you offended about the word "loophole"? In fact, why are you PSU guys so defensive about using a perfectly legal form of recruiting?
T-Boone Pickens did it for Okie State, Knight did it for Oregon... etc. All it takes is money and you guys have your T-Boone.
Be happy about that.
A recruit should be allowed to go to a club and ask questions. If he happens to poll members about their stipends/salaries, are you saying it is a violation if they answer? Same question for a recruit who polls team members about how much money they make doing camps in the offseason?
Re: the bolded part, I believe you're thinking of someone else. I don't recall saying that.
Money helps. Working hard at your craft helps. Being lucky helps.
Combine those 3 things on a regular basis and you'll be tough to beat.
Difference being, that's a known fact not a benefit offered, like a winning program might be perceived as a positive by the recruit. Whereas Offering or telling a recruit there is money available to him after graduation is an added financial incentive to induce a recruit to sign or possibly take a smaller scholarship. Using Alabama as an example...recruites know they are very likely to be in the playoff picture every year. That's not a specific inducement to a recruite, just as Penn State winning the last few years and touting that fact to potential recruites in wrestling is in no way a violation.
No, you are correct, if asked the answer would not be a problem at all. Only a problem if the recruit is told he would get the additional monies if he signs......told by anyone connected with the program.
I'm not offended. I'm just participating in a discussion about rules and allegations of cheating or taking advantage of loopholes. I don't really want to debate semantics of what does and doesn't constitute a loophole, and so I'll spare folks from that. I have no beef with what you posted.
EDIT: My only objection was that it isn't fair to assume the coaching staff is dangling carrots and making verbal promises of future benefit -- the recruits could very well learn about their opportunities by doing their own due dilligence.
You are correct. Totally true.
For like the fourth time in this thread.... I don't think PSU or IOWA or IOWA STATE or ANYFREAKINGBODY is breaking NCAA rules here.
I'm trying to figure out why you guys are upset. You are ahead of the curve. Cael figured it out and had 5 million to work with.
Why do you think that Dresser and Brands are out stumping for money? They both have 9.9 schollies just like you. I'm pretty sure that both institutions have enough mats to go around. They both get it now I think.
Do you seek validation and not have it cheapened with money talk? Honest question...
I'm not upset and don't seek any sort of validation of PSU's success. I'm more than content.
Several angles to explain that success have been proposed, including the following:
In contributing to the discussion, I offered another angle. I'm not following why you seem to be taking that as defensive, or accusing you of saying PSU is breaking rules. I haven't done that.
Would something like this be illegal?
A recruit is on a visit, Coach is taking them around and then makes the comment that their post grad wrestling club is well funded and that the average stipend for their club member was $$$ and that they have several guys making upwards of $$$?
Honest question, as it would seem that the Coach was just giving facts and I would think wouldn't be in any violation of any rules if stated in that manner.
Also, how much do you think the highest member of the NWLC makes from their stipend?
And how much does 5 million generate per year for this type of payout to members?
A recruit is on a visit, Coach is taking them around and then makes the comment that their post grad wrestling club is well funded and that the average stipend for their club member was $$$ and that they have several guys making upwards of $$$?
Honest question, as it would seem that the Coach was just giving facts and I would think wouldn't be in any violation of any rules if stated in that manner.
Also, how much do you think the highest member of the NWLC makes from their stipend?
And how much does 5 million generate per year for this type of payout to members?
$250,000 a year is an endowment disbursement at 5% a year, which is a typical number...
It is only a violation if someone tells the recruit that they WILL get a certain amount of money if they go to the school. You cannot offer any extra benefits to attend your school.
I don't think "all these other programs" are out-recruiting Iowa, as you seem to say. In a given year, a school might pull in an exceptional haul of top guys - ASU, Cornell, NC St etc. That's a single year or maybe two.
Iowa has gotten 4 top 10 guys in the last 3 years. They compare well with traditional powers Okla St and Minn. tOSU had two stellar years in 2013 and 2014 (Bo, Tomasello, Snyder, M Jordan, and Haines), but in the 3 years since then, Iowa has kept even (actually getting higher rated top 10 guys) than tOSU.
So the facts show that over time, Iowa holds their own with any school except one - PSU.
PSU far surpasses everyone else, over an extended period, in getting top 10 recruits. This has been going on since Cael arrived. A legitimate question is, "how is he doing that?"
I get that success breeds success, and that could partially explain it.
But if there are financial arrangements made via NLWC, implied payments, or slush funds by sugar daddy endowments, that allow PSU to dole out far more money than other schools, then that needs to be addressed.
As Vodka has explained, athletic depts seem to be pretty opaque on this stuff.
If it is legal, then other schools need to up their game. If it is not, then the ncaa needs to be investigating.
Appears the FBI is willing to address similar issues with NCAA Basketball after today. Wonder if anyone is getting nervous at PSU or we see any recruits flip now that the FBI is starting to put their stamp on NCAA sports since the NCAA doesn't govern anything.
Teske has lived the last 17 years wanting to be a Hawkeye. Until the official NLI is signed and made official I'm saying the Hawks aren't out of it. Maybe its denial on my part of wishful thinking, but Spencer Lee at Iowa or not we need someone like Brody and his style of wrestling would thrive in the program. The amount of upside someone like Teske has is uncapped with his work ethic and toughness. I see a lot of Mark Ironside similarities in him and his style. We need to make a push as a fan base to let him know we want him here. I remember when Perry told Brands and others when he was at Illinois Delgado would beat McDonough and everyone thought he was delusional. My point being may not be the #1
guy today, but don't write him off just yet I know our staff isn't giving up on him.
guy today, but don't write him off just yet I know our staff isn't giving up on him.
Perhaps there is a very simple explanation and it has already been addressed here...Teske doesn't see himself as a 133 and he doesn't feel he can compete with Spencers Lee?
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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The FBI arresting NCAA college basketball coaches is very interesting. Especially because it supports my point that the NCAA compliance is not handled appropriately. The NCAA puts the responsibility on each individual school to monitor their own athletic programs as if that's not a massive conflict of interest. Then when the public inquires about how the auditing and monitoring of certain bylaws is handled, these compliance departments are absolutely silent.
Good to see the FBI cares about keeping things clean.
Good to see the FBI cares about keeping things clean.
https://www.seccountry.com/mississi...d-burner-phones-conceal-contact-recruits-ncaa
Funny, I was told by a prominent Ohio high school head coach that this was one of PSU's tactics 3 years ago, using burner cell phones to make early contact with high school kids. I thought it was a little far fetched but maybe not.
Funny, I was told by a prominent Ohio high school head coach that this was one of PSU's tactics 3 years ago, using burner cell phones to make early contact with high school kids. I thought it was a little far fetched but maybe not.
Funny, I heard from TWO prominent Ohio high school head coaches the same thing was being done by staff members at Iowa.https://www.seccountry.com/mississi...d-burner-phones-conceal-contact-recruits-ncaa
Funny, I was told by a prominent Ohio high school head coach that this was one of PSU's tactics 3 years ago, using burner cell phones to make early contact with high school kids. I thought it was a little far fetched but maybe not.
With all that money you guys are raising to help Iowa cheat as well as PSU...maybe Hawk fans shouldn't get too comfortable themselves. Any lawyers in here? Any chance you fans that donate could be charged as a conspirator to the crime?
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Careful . . . if Iowa isn't getting outrecruited by anyone other than PSU, then the next alternative to explain placing out of the Top 2 or 3 at Nationals is that their being outcouched . . . and we all know that is impossible.
No, but seriously, injuries have been a key contributor as well. But to my point that you addressed, I was really responding to a poster's statement regarding this year's recruiting results. I know on average Iowa does well by rankings, but sometimes the rankings miss. And collectively, the VaTechs, NC States, Nebbies, and (gasp) Rutgers that grap a top recruit here and there add up to a bunch of teams chipping away at that list until there is little left.
Like I said, PSU is putting together a massive class this year. But is it any surprise after that display of total annihilation during the 149-184 Natty Finals? Who could not watch that and think they should at least check out the scene? We could very well be seeing a peak here. I hope not, but if someone else looks starts looking popular, the tide can turn quickly, IMO. For awhile, I thought there would be no end to OkieSt dominating the sport. And then I thought the same of Iowa. It's now PSU's momentum to lose, and it will happen someday.
Last point . . . When trying to analyze the team recruiting performance with a longer-term perspective, let's not forget the influence of Sunderland recruits like Molinaro, Ruth, and Wright for a few years. And then unheralded recruits like Conaway and Brown. There are lots of pieces to the PSU dominance of the past 7 years, but having superb recruiting on average is not the only factor. As folks like to point out, some of those studs didn't exactly meet or exceed their ranks. I think more years of data are necessary to really feel solid about a trend.
More years of data needed to really feel solid about a trend? What? Or better yet....WTF!
That reminds me of a survey apparently done in the UK a while back, that these geniuses studied and tracked, and apparently noticed another trend....... They came to the conclusion that most men like beer and women (pc version). Who the hell knew?
That reminds me of a survey apparently done in the UK a while back, that these geniuses studied and tracked, and apparently noticed another trend....... They came to the conclusion that most men like beer and women (pc version). Who the hell knew?
Speaking from a statistical perspective, and perhaps that's not appreciated. But it's how I view the world when forming conclusions.
Here's how I look at it. Molinaro graduated in 2012. Wright in 2013. Ruth in 2014. We know there was a widespread opinion that Cael's/PSU's success would end after the graduation of Ruth and Taylor. So, the clock on Sanderson's product being his alone (i.e., no significant points from Sunderland recruits) is 2015. PSU fell short that year. 2016 and 2017 teams have been stellar products based solely on Cael's recruits, and it looks like there is a trend forming for continued dominance. But I, personally, wouldn't conclude that. Just my own satistical standards, and it's fine if people think I'm a moran for thinking that way.
But some here are opining that the run could end as soon as 2019 or 2020.
I thought someone might say that. Yes, there most certainly was a design, but many believe PSU would have still fallen short if they put all of their best on the mat that year.
