Who hates Iowa? Devyn Marble.
- Thread starter libertyhawkeye
- Start date
Oh nonsense. Garza would have been unstoppable back then at an even higher level. A center that can shoot the three? Good lord he would have been an anomaly. Not to mention his fitness level is insane and the minutes he can play vs normal bigs.... especially back then.
No but I would take down BJ, Stokes and Chris Street. Retiring the jersey should be rare and based on an extraordinary career on the basketball court at Iowa. Being a career leading scorer is a big career result but there are other things that I think are required. National level recognition would be the next factor, Luka's won almost every honor a center can win, Roy had no such recognition.
Outside of doing some serious horrendous crime, basketball honors are earned on the floor. Roy did not earn a jersey retirement and neither did BJ, Greg Stokes or Chris Street.
we must not discuss facts.
we must not discuss that Bump Elliott decided 32 years ago to NOT retire Roy's number because Roy did not reach that high bar that is required for a number to be retired. The same Bump Elliott who hired Hayden Fry, Dan Gable and Tom Davis.
we must not bring up those domestic violence and restraining order articles that were published in the Cedar Rapids Gazette. Damn that Gazette!!!
Instead, we must be OUTRAGED!!!!!!
Don't you think there was a file created 32 years ago by Bump Elliott when they reviewed whether or not to retire Roy's number? Barta mentioned that Roy never met the criteria for jersey retirement, so I am sure Barta is fully aware of why Bump Elliott made the decision he made. And guess what? That decision has stood for 32 years, so it must have been a good one. Bump was known for making good/the right decisions.
And I disagree; Barta needed to address this after Dev attacked the UI. Barta also brought up 2 other former players whose families thought their numbers should be retired. Barta stated that ALL 3 players did not meet the criteria that is required.
This is not hard, folks.
What's wrong with the UI helping its student athletes with addiction problems?
Many coaches and universities have tried to help the player first BEFORE kicking them off the team. So, what the UI did with Roy is not uncommon.
Again, the problems that prevented Roy's number from being retired were issues from 32 years ago, which is when Bump Elliott/the committee decided to not retire his number. And Bump's decision has stood for 32 years over a couple other Athletic Directors.
You take a single snippet of an entire conversation and apply your own context to it. And then you say I want to change the narrative. For your own good, give you finger a rest and stop typing.
Its ok for us to disagree. I appreciate the dialogue and different perspectives. There are some smart people on here who have different views. I believe it makes a material difference that he plays in an era of 1 and done. He is a great player. I'm not disputing it. Roy was a great player. No one is disputing that either.
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Ronman said:
I admit I didn't read through this entire thread, but feel I need to comment on those thoughts that Roy wasn't even the best player on his teams. That is just blatantly incorrect. BJ and Horton blossomed while here and Armstrong actually led the team in scoring his junior year, but Roy was great from the very beginning of his career. He led the team in scoring three of his four years here and was a force to be reckoned with in the B1G during what could be considered a golden era. He may not have collected the accolades that Luka is garnering, but he was a tremendous player.
Forgive me if I'm wrong,
but when you have 3 teams ranked in the top 5 and 4 teams in the top 10 and may have 2 number one seeds and 2 number two seeds in the NCAA Tournament and as many as 9 teams in the dance overall, that seems to be pretty golden right now!
I admit I didn't read through this entire thread, but feel I need to comment on those thoughts that Roy wasn't even the best player on his teams. That is just blatantly incorrect. BJ and Horton blossomed while here and Armstrong actually led the team in scoring his junior year, but Roy was great from the very beginning of his career. He led the team in scoring three of his four years here and was a force to be reckoned with in the B1G during what could be considered a golden era. He may not have collected the accolades that Luka is garnering, but he was a tremendous player.
Forgive me if I'm wrong,
but when you have 3 teams ranked in the top 5 and 4 teams in the top 10 and may have 2 number one seeds and 2 number two seeds in the NCAA Tournament and as many as 9 teams in the dance overall, that seems to be pretty golden right now!
"The decision to retire numbers or jerseys rests in the hands of a committee that includes coaches, the athletic director, the media relations director and the Varsity Club "
Why do you put it all on Bump's shoulders?
Nothing wrong w helping kids in that capacity. But what rubs me the wrong way, is when that help and commitment seems conditional to a degree. Seems like the university tolerated Roy as a player, and not so much as a person, which is unfortunate.
And yes they can only do so much post playing days, but they seemed to keep him at an uncomfortable distance considering his status as a player.
I did not put it all on Bump's shoulders. As you can see, I stated that Bump Elliott/the committee decided to not retire his number 32 years ago.
And then, from there, it would have been Bump who would have taken the questions 32 years ago on why his number was not retired, just like Barta is taking the questions now.
I guess I disagree. How can the UI not be "tolerating" Roy as a human being when they help him get treatment & they help him stay on a path to get a degree? The UI can only do so much; Roy has to want to get better and he has to want that degree, too.
Unfortunately, the UI kept Roy at an uncomfortable distance because his actions after his UI playing days, quite frankly, made them uncomfortable.
No, it falls on Dev Marble. HE was the one who whined about it. Barta didn't have to give him the time of day...until Fran "reached out". At least barta didn't go into detail about (possible) "character issues".
How soon before Luka Garza is tweeting, "I will never watch an Iowa game again"?
I have yet to rewatch that game, despite numerous friends saying, "You can find it online!" Between that game and Joe Theismann's injury, that's several hours I will never be tempted to waste!
Maybe we need to make sure OJs kids are at the Heisman dinner each year?
Everyone should be able to see that this is where we're at in society... it's definitely no secret. But you my friend are spot on.
A couple weeks ago I noticed a "participation-trophy" loving left-wing outlet (ABC) discussing the Gen Z'ers....questioning whether or not this group is taking "political correctness" way too far.
I was surprised but happy the topic was on the table.
I am pretty sure other players have now played for multiple schools in Final Four. And with "free" transfers on the horizon, it might become commonplace, like it or not.
Dude, Luka passed Roy with 15 less games under his belt. Give it a rest.
So, in other words, all the work Frank and Luka put in was pointless, because of our awesome AND consistent 3-point shooting, so he wasn't really needed. Got it.
You keep digging, and the hole ain't filling itself.
<<This is just having a little basketball intelligence>>
Yeah, you could definitely use some. Thus far, you have exhibited zero credibility your own self.
There you go, contradicting yourself, again. BTW, a little "basketball intelligence" says Roy was one of only TWO first-round draft picks for his team.
Roy was awesome at Orlando Classic after the 1989 season. He got drafted in the first round. He promptly made the very little, if not the least, of his opportunity. He was a great player. Better than Luka? Stupid comparison from the outset.
Bet you and the others quit now, because it's getting embarrassing just reading these posts.
Actually, if "comparing" players, one might argue Luka and Dev are two of Iowa's all-time greatest at MAXIMIZING their respective talents.
Dev came to Iowa pretty raw, with Roy's shadow (obviously) enveloping him. He, along with Gatens, White, Basabe, Olaseni, Gesell, May, Woodbury, et. al. helped turn the program back around from the hole Alf started and Lick fully excavated. He had to play off-guard, small-forwward, point guard, and damn near everything else, at some point in his career. He ended up becoming the part of the first father-son duo in B1G to each score 1000 points. No, he wasn't his father, but he was anything BUT a disappointment, and showed anything BUT a "boy-I-wish-he-was-as-good-as-his-dad" result.
Luka came in exuberant and eager, but pretty raw. There were certainly flashes of what might be, but, beyond the tumor issue his sophomore year helping to explain part of it, NObody saw junior AND senior Luka Garza as any sort of sure thing. With his father's help he worked his ass off to get better, worked with his teammates to keep the team healthy during this season, and gave full credit to staff & team when honored last Sunday.
In short, if "honor" is what it's about, I would choose BOTH over Roy AND some of Roy's teammates. But frankly, what Dev created with his tweet may just need time, get everyone to their corner, and let them come back and sort it out.
Kudos to Fran for reaching out, kudos to Barta for not dodging the whole thing, and kudos to all if they can 1) do the "honor" section at Carver-Hawkeye's reworked concourse, and 2) unretire ALL numbers, and just hang their individual jerseys. Yes, even CMS 40. Hell, why not let players "earn" the right to wear numbers as they get unretired? Dumber things have been tried, that's for certain.
He was a GREAT player. And, to put to rest all the b.s. about a degree, Roy DID graduate from Iowa. There was show on BTN featuring several former players and their college experience, and what it was like to leave home to go to school in the first place.
Roy's first comments included the admonition from his father NOT to come home if he didn't get his degree. His father impressed upon him that he was being gifted with an education in exchange for his talent. For him to give his talent and NOT get the degree was unacceptable. Roy said he wasn't going to risk going home without the degree.
I believe either Tom Davis or one of his teammates mentioned that Roy graduated "on time", with his class.
Not sure, but Billy McCaffrey, maybe (started at Duke, maybe transferred to kentucky?) Rick Calloway started at Indiana, finished at Kansas, but not sure if he went to Final Four at both, or even if he ever went.
I know Krafcisin was definitely the first, and actually reached the title game with UNC.
I guess I could Google it, but not even sure how I would search for it "Guys with multiple Final Fours from different schools"?
(PAUSE)
So I DID Google it. NOTHING, not even a mention of Steve Krafcisin. It gives copious amounts of team info, but no mention of individual players who have done what Krafcisin did (including Krafcisin).
I think I should get an award for stumping Google!
"To this day, Steve holds the unique distinction as the only player in NCAA history to play and score in two Final Fours for two different teams."
https://www.dmaccbears.com/sports/wbkb/coaches/Steve_Krafcisin?view=bio
1982: Second round exit
1983: Sweet Sixteen exit
1984: no postseason
1985: first-round exit
That's from a team perspective. Greg was definitely the star of the team for three of those years. Beyond that, I agree. Great Hawkeye, but retiring his number is a bit much.
Good find. What in hell did you use as a search term?
EDIT: I actually met Steve when I went through fraternity rush as a freshman. He was at the Lambda Chi Alpha house. We talked a bit about Chicagoland sports. St Laurence was basically the Catholic League "power" equivalent, in that day and age, to Mark Aguirre at Westinghouse and Levi Cobb at Morgan Park. To put it in perspective, Ronnie Lester's Dunbar team was but a blip on the radar in those years.
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Comparing Roy and Luka is apples to oranges. Luka couldn't do what Roy did and vs. vs. Given the number of games Roy played, there are many guys that played before '73 that only played about 60% as many. Give them the same number of games and they would have had more points than Roy.
I had another thought on this whole mess. Suppose, just suppose, part of the criterion is being a model citizen - on and OFF the court. Since Roy had off court issues, that could have been the issue. So if Barta comes out and says it was because of Roy's addiction and drug issues, he would get blasted to kingdom come!!! And he shouldn't say that as it disparages another persons personal behavior. So maybe by saying nothing, Barta was trying to NOT diminish Roy's legacy! Just a thought.....................
