Anyone still an undecided?

[TennNole17]

It seems you did understand it. What makes it flawed, dated and dangerous?

Continuously telling people they are "throwing their vote away", or shaming them into picking the lesser of two donuts. We will never have a viable third party run if everyone is scared to vote for one. We shouldn't limit ourselves to two parties- we've seen what a shit show that is. The Atlantic(?) has a great article about the two part system years ago.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

I am totally undecided but taylor swift is brainwashing me with fake AI videos and CIA tricks and then the next vid that pops up on my computer is Jill Biden dancing for me then the next vid is Jill and Taylor in bed together so I think I am voting for biden because he has all these hot women all around him at all times.

 

[LunchBox50]

Holy hell did I laugh hard at this.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

The presidential campaign isn't the Superbowl. The game itself only allows for two teams- by design. The election - as he mentioned- has infinite possible options.

Are there two (very likely) outcomes? Yes- but by practice, not by design.

both the superbowl and the presidential election are rigged equally and scripted, the outcomes are predetermined.

for instance you can just tell the powers that be want the chiefs right now to win. it's building and building. san fran might as well stay home: chiefs are already winners. just gotta wait for the final score.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

It's like saying, "Why bother boycotting....the company is too big. It won't make a dent. Why bother?" Good thing MLK didn't think he was wasting his time.

Good grief...that isn't even REMOTELY the same.

 

[ThorneStockton]

Continuously telling people they are "throwing their vote away", or shaming them into picking the lesser of two donuts. We will never have a viable third party run if everyone is scared to vote for one. We shouldn't limit ourselves to two parties- we've seen what a shit show that is. The Atlantic(?) has a great article about the two part system years ago.

Is that the reasoning for flawed, dated, dangerous or all three?

I understand your desire in wanting a different option, but there are realities regarding how our system is designed. There is a reason there are just two main parties. It's not just because for hundreds of years people have been bullied into not throwing their vote away or by being shamed.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Is that the reasoning for flawed, dated, dangerous or all three?

I understand your desire in wanting a different option, but there are realities regarding how our system is designed. There is a reason there are just two main parties. It's not just because for hundreds of years people have been bullied into not throwing their vote away or by being shamed.

it's because manipulating fake results with only two parties is much easier than doing it with 4 parties.

 

[TennNole17]

Is that the reasoning for flawed, dated, dangerous or all three?

I understand your desire in wanting a different option, but there are realities regarding how our system is designed. There is a reason there are just two main parties. It's not just because for hundreds of years people have been bullied into not throwing their vote away or by being shamed.

It wasn't designed to be a two party system.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

It wasn't designed to be a two party system.

correct. it was designed to have any farmer or business owner or laborer at all, anyone, be prez. the poplulation in general. minus kids and foreign agents and such.

 

[auntie_fah]

This is nuts. If they elect Trump, in 4 years we'll elect someone else. Democracy is not in danger. Talk like this is blatant fear mongering.

Trump is going to fill his staff with yes men and enablers who don’t have a line that they sre unwilling to cross.

you could be right. Hope you are right, but i am not going to be surprised if we can throw this on top of other things that came true after we were told we were overreacting.

 

[ThorneStockton]

It wasn't designed to be a two party system.

Why do you think the intent matters? The reality is that the system was designed in a way that results in a two party system.

They may not have said: "We want a two party system, how do we design it to get there?" the end result is the same.

In terms of communication, can you describe the flawed, dated and dangerous? I'm most curious in the dated and dangerous part.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Trump is going to fill his staff with yes men and enablers who don’t have a line that they sre unwilling to cross.

you could be right. Hope you are right, but i am not going to be surprised if we can throw this on top of other things that came true after we were told we were overreacting.

absolutely zero came true that dems said would come true with trump

 

[auntie_fah]

absolutely zero came true that dems said would come true with trump

Not necessarily talking about trump, but i heard many times that trump would queitly go away after the last election.

Also, before Roe was overturned, many conservatives said we were overreacting and that it was settled law

 

[fsu1jreed]

Unfortunately, that isn't enough. He has millions of morans lined up to support him. I will actively vote against him and that leaves only one choice. He can't be allowed back in the WH under any circumstances including because people think the other guy is too old.

This

 

[Sharky1203]

Not necessarily talking about trump, but i heard many times that trump would queitly go away after the last election.

Also, before Roe was overturned, many conservatives said we were overreacting and that it was settled law

Roe was never overturned. It was dropped back to the States, and everyone was told to pass the laws, so it wasn't governed by the courts.

 

[TennNole17]

Why do you think the intent matters? The reality is that the system was designed in a way that results in a two party system.

They may not have said: "We want a two party system, how do we design it to get there?" the end result is the same.

In terms of communication, can you describe the flawed, dated and dangerous? I'm most curious in the dated and dangerous part.

To just keep doing things the way they are, because of how they have been done is dated. Perpetuating that people are required to vote for one or the other is dangerous and flawed. Its incorrect to imply its the only way to do it, and dangerous because it prevents change.

Of course the intent matters- I'd be curious why it doesn't matter. The system was never setup to be two party

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Not necessarily talking about trump, but i heard many times that trump would queitly go away after the last election.

Also, before Roe was overturned, many conservatives said we were overreacting and that it was settled law

exactly, even the roe thing didn't happen like dems said it would. it is up to the states as it should be. dems said it would totally be banned. it just shifted from feds to each state.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

Roe was never overturned. It was dropped back to the States, and everyone was told to pass the laws, so it wasn't governed by the courts.

correct, dems said trump would get it totally banned. never happened

 

[auntie_fah]

Roe was never overturned. It was dropped back to the States, and everyone was told to pass the laws, so it wasn't governed by the courts.

Even the conservative beacon of fox news disagrees with you
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/supreme-court-overturns-roe-v-wade-in-landmark-opinion.amp

 

[Sharky1203]

correct, dems said trump would get it totally banned. never happened

Obama had a super majority (unstoppable) and promised it was the first thing he did. FWD to 2024 and here we are, still no bill.

 

[Sharky1203]

Even the conservative beacon of fox news disagrees with you
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/supreme-court-overturns-roe-v-wade-in-landmark-opinion.amp

Are there abortions still happening in the US?

 

[ButtersHawk]

Continuously telling people they are "throwing their vote away", or shaming them into picking the lesser of two donuts. We will never have a viable third party run if everyone is scared to vote for one. We shouldn't limit ourselves to two parties- we've seen what a shit show that is. The Atlantic(?) has a great article about the two part system years ago.

I agree with this. We need a viable 3rd party. If RFK Jr or the Libertarian candidate isn't on the stage for the debates that just shows a flawed system.

 

[auntie_fah]

Are there abortions still happening in the US?

Roe was overturned.

 

[LunchBox50]

both the superbowl and the presidential election are rigged equally and scripted, the outcomes are predetermined.

for instance you can just tell the powers that be want the chiefs right now to win. it's building and building. san fran might as well stay home: chiefs are already winners. just gotta wait for the final score.

And when the Chiefs lose, you will have some other crackpot conspiracy. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Sharky1203]

Roe was overturned.

If there are states that allow abortions, then it was never overturned. They kicked it back to the states to be decided until Federal laws can be passed.

 

[ThorneStockton]

To just keep doing things the way they are, because of how they have been done is dated. Perpetuating that people are required to vote for one or the other is dangerous and flawed. Its incorrect to imply its the only way to do it, and dangerous because it prevents change.

Of course the intent matters- I'd be curious why it doesn't matter. The system was never setup to be two party

Cheers, always nice when it stays civil, but I don't think we're speaking the same language here so I don't know that there is a point to continue.

 

[TennNole17]

Cheers, always nice when it stays civil, but I don't think we're speaking the same language here so I don't know that there is a point to continue.

No worries. If anything, this basically is where I land, and the article I mentioned earlier.

America Is Now the Divided Republic the Framers Feared

John Adams worried that “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.” And that’s exactly what has come to pass.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[auntie_fah]

If there are states that allow abortions, then it was never overturned. They kicked it back to the states to be decided until Federal laws can be passed.

The Supreme Court overturned Roe, regardless of what the states did thst followed it. FACT

Conservatives had told all this time that Roe was settled law and it wasn’t going to be overturned, even Trumps SC nominees said it was settled law: FACT

Spin it how you want, just quit gaslighting that we are overreacting when we see what Trump has done in the past, and listen to what he says he wants to do.

Remember, his base loves him because he tells it like it is, and takes no shit.

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

Trump is going to fill his staff with yes men and enablers who don’t have a line that they sre unwilling to cross.

you could be right. Hope you are right, but i am not going to be surprised if we can throw this on top of other things that came true after we were told we were overreacting.

There were people here claiming it was ridiculous to suggest Trump would do anything but gracefully hand over the reins if he was defeated in 2020.

Doobi just tries to hard to be above it all. It’s his whole reason for being here.

 

[FAUlty Gator]

Yes

You will receive one of them. One of those two WILL be delivered to you regardless of what you do. You're going to get kicked because not getting kicked isn't available as a choice. Not choosing is asking for the kick in the nuts. Seems stupid but maybe you like that.

You start by saying the outcome is inevitable and finish by saying his vote matters. Seems stupid.

 

[Sharky1203]

The Supreme Court overturned Roe, regardless of what the states did thst followed it. FACT

Conservatives had told all this time that Roe was settled law and it wasn’t going to be overturned, even Trumps SC nominees said it was settled law: FACT

Spin it how you want, just quit gaslighting that we are overreacting when we see what Trump has done in the past, and listen to what he says he wants to do.

Remember, his base loves him because he tells it like it is, and takes no shit.

What year was Roe v Wade decided?

Can't believe I'm going to have to walk you through this.

 

[auntie_fah]

There were people here claiming it was ridiculous to suggest Trump would do anything but gracefully hand over the reins if he was defeated in 2020.

Doobi just tries to hard to be above it all. It’s his whole reason for being here.

Its all overreacting when we take conservatives at face value until they do what they say they will do. Then they get all pikachu face when what we have been saying all along happens

 

[auntie_fah]

What year was Roe v Wade decided?

Can't believe I'm going to have to walk you through this.

It doesnt matter

It
Was
Overturned

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Continuously telling people they are "throwing their vote away", or shaming them into picking the lesser of two donuts. We will never have a viable third party run if everyone is scared to vote for one. We shouldn't limit ourselves to two parties- we've seen what a shit show that is. The Atlantic(?) has a great article about the two part system years ago.

*sigh* There will never be a "viable third party" for a presidential election...unless you like the idea of the House of Representatives choosing the president. This is literally basic civics. A candidate must receive a majority of EC votes. It would be a very rare scenario where three viable parties are going to produce such a result. The consequence of that is that the election goes to the House. And I'm sure a major-party majority is going to pick the third-party candidate.

I realize some of you love the idea of a third party...in the abstract...but your party has zero seats in the House because you haven't done the basic party building to enable anything approaching "viable". You come out of the woodwork every four years, cast your useless vote, then effectively disappear until the next election. Lather, rinse, repeat. In every other election, you nearly always make that binary choice or do the same thing you do for president. There's a poster in THIS thread admitting he's voting R or D in all other elections but will refuse to do so for the most high level office. You leave the third-party heavy lifting to a tiny number of people who have no chance of producing local or state results that are relevant.

There are three (3) senators not affiliated with a major party and not one of them belongs to a third party. That's a fail. Any idea how many House members are third party? Out of 435 members...not one. Zero. Epic fail. You can't even elect a third-party governor, yet you come here whining about the two-party system. A system you almost universally support with the exception of a single race. And, understand, there is no EC standing in your way in ANY of those elections. So, excuse me if I view your "efforts" with total disdain.

 

[ThorneStockton]

No worries. If anything, this basically is where I land, and the article I mentioned earlier.

America Is Now the Divided Republic the Framers Feared

John Adams worried that “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.” And that’s exactly what has come to pass.

www.theatlantic.com

Thanks for sharing, it's mostly paywalled and I don't subscribe. But I can read the subheading:

"John Adams worried that “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.” And that’s exactly what has come to pass."


I'll just say that it makes sense to me that John Adams was worried because even at that time he realized that the system that they designed would result in two great parties....

 

[tarheelbybirth]

I agree with this. We need a viable 3rd party. If RFK Jr or the Libertarian candidate isn't on the stage for the debates that just shows a flawed system.

I would love to hear your scenario where RFK JR actually moves into the White House. How is that going to work?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Thanks for sharing, it's mostly paywalled and I don't subscribe. But I can read the subheading:

"John Adams worried that “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.” And that’s exactly what has come to pass."


I'll just say that it makes sense to me that John Adams was worried because even at that time he realized that the system that they designed would result in two great parties....

The problem is they designed it so it could only produce that result at the presidential level...and that filters down.

 

[TennNole17]

*sigh* There will never be a "viable third party" for a presidential election...unless you like the idea of the House of Representatives choosing the president. This is literally basic civics. A candidate must receive a majority of EC votes. It would be a very rare scenario where three viable parties are going to produce such a result. The consequence of that is that the election goes to the House. And I'm sure a major-party majority is going to pick the third-party candidate.

I realize some of you love the idea of a third party...in the abstract...but your party has zero seats in the House because you haven't done the basic party building to enable anything approaching "viable". You come out of the woodwork every four years, cast your useless vote, then effectively disappear until the next election. Lather, rinse, repeat. In every other election, you nearly always make that binary choice or do the same thing you do for president. There's a poster in THIS thread admitting he's voting R or D in all other elections but will refuse to do so for the most high level office. You leave the third-party heavy lifting to a tiny number of people who have no chance of producing local or state results that are relevant.

There are three (3) senators not affiliated with a major party and not one of them belongs to a third party. That's a fail. Any idea how many House members are third party? Out of 435 members...not one. Zero. Epic fail. You can't even elect a third-party governor, yet you come here whining about the two-party system. A system you almost universally support with the exception of a single race. And, understand, there is no EC standing in your way in ANY of those elections. So, excuse me if I view your "efforts" with total disdain.

In your opinion, if you detest both candidates- what is your path to getting better ones?

 

[Sharky1203]

It doesnt matter

It
Was
Overturned

Yes, it does.

1) abortions were not allowed (unless for medical and that was almost nil) until 1973.
2) the SCOTUS said abortions shall be decided by the states until the federal gov passes the laws.

That it in a nutshell. If it was overturned, then all abortions would be illegal just like 1972.

 

[TennNole17]

Thanks for sharing, it's mostly paywalled and I don't subscribe. But I can read the subheading:

"John Adams worried that “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.” And that’s exactly what has come to pass."


I'll just say that it makes sense to me that John Adams was worried because even at that time he realized that the system that they designed would result in two great parties....

Atlantic shouldn't be paywalled? I got a pop up, but just hit X lol