Big Ten Finals(and 3rd/5th) discussion

Tcalumet

HR MVP
Jun 29, 2016
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Never thought I'd see Brooks lose again in College. Obviously Amine is a formidable dude, still didn't think it would happen. Great match with 2 late takedowns. Big balls Amine! Wow!
Brooks has close matches here and there - he’s the top guys but def not by a big margin - he’s not in his own league for sure
 
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blcoach80

HR All-State
Feb 24, 2018
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Love the Hawkeyes. Pumped that the Bull won his fourth. And yet. Watching Marinelli-Amine and Starocci-Massa back to back is a pretty good argument that the rules committee should go back to the drawing board. No shots in Bull's match until 14 seconds left. I get that he pushed the pace and that Amine was backing up the whole time. But there was no action to speak of except hand fighting. And there was essentially one shot in the entire Starocci match. Watching Massa ride Starocci for a minute and a half, and then watching Starocci ride Massa for two minutes, it was pretty unexciting stuff.
If they called stalling like they did in the eighties and nineties it fixes this. If you rode just to ride, they called stalling (on top) and stalemates quickly. If no one shot or pushed the action in neutral they called double stalls. The refs forced the action. Problem is it opens everything up to inconsistently calling matches depending on the ref, which would happen. It is making for some boring matches now if neither wrestler is aggressive now though.
 

HawkeyeGenius

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Nov 25, 2021
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Not surprising at all. No idea how his knee is, but he ain't beating GS and Iowa isn't winning a team title. Heal up and hope you get a chance to get worked by Gable in the NCAA Finals! 🙂 (with the caveat that Dan Gable got beat, if he can, anybody can, never say never)
I only see GS getting beat if something crazy happens, and he gets caught on his back.
 
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MVPFAN

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Mar 10, 2003
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Mark my words. This will be the year MFFs will hurt seeding since Iowa did it in the finals twice. Hope I’m wrong.
How can it hurt seeding more than a loss which it would have been anyway in Cass's situation and likely Eierman as well if his knee is torn up? I don't think either of those 2 care if they count them as a loss considering they were wrestling #1 guy.
 

GoHawks1996

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Feb 17, 2021
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I won’t buy into the injures we’re too much to wrestle these matches. Every one of us would be calling out psu if they did it
Not if they had giant leg braces and shoulder harnesses on dipshit. Not a single person disparaged Rivera because it was clear he was battling an injury, I believe Nolf did something similar years ago.
 

Kwoodhawk

HR Heisman
Feb 11, 2009
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I didn't hear Ironsides comment about 4 time BIG Champion in 5 years.

But that is not the wrestlers fault.

Covid came. Seasons changed. People in charge made decisions.

All the wrestlers can do is go with what those in charge decide to do.

No asterisks.
 
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MVPFAN

HR Heisman
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If MFF becomes the norm in the Big Ten tournament for wrestlers who are still healthy enough to wrestle in the National tournament, then there needs to be a punishment for MFF when seeding for national. If the wrestlers don't think it means anything, why should the BIg Ten Network cover it?
So guys with torn up knees should wrestle a meaningless match and potentially be even more hurt before nationals to appease TV and fans? Great logic. And yes the matches were meaningless because they are going to be seeded as Big Ten runner ups either way. They didn't gain anything vs wrestling hurt and losing to the #1 guy except possible saved health.
 

IAChief32

HR Heisman
Apr 21, 2017
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The whole argument about MFF as a way ducking is funny because:

1. The NCAA committee dings you (see Kemerer and Nolf in 2019).

2. If Cassioppi was trying to protect a seed, then not wrestling Kerk would have been the ticket I guess (although see #1).
--Everybody gets beat by GSteve. No shame in it and the NCAAs won't see this as a non loss.
--Same dumbasses talking this junk would have been like, "Well if he was injured, he shouldn't have sent him out there" if Cass takes a season ender against GSteve. Cass can control the pace and protect his leg against anybody but he can't do it against Steveson because GS imposes his will against everyone.

Here is Cass vs Hilger where Hilger bends Cass's knee against the joint before the ref called PD.



3. Tom (right or wrong) was the same guy who threw Desanto under the bus for overreacting vs RBY in the 2020 dual. They got on him about that too.

If one wants to make the argument that the fans got cheated, then so be it. I hate the fact that Iowa is going into the tourney as the walking wounded but guys like Ayala, Eierman, Max, Kemerer didn't come in with owies but with legit injuries. None of our four guys gained anything by MFFing out. In fact, it's going to hurt Kemerer's seeding.
 

HawK + i

HR MVP
Sep 11, 2008
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Based on what criteria? Its not like he's ever even been the face of the program. He has a great shot at being a 5 time all american
A benchmark of success for Iowa wrestlers should never be "All-American" status... I mean NCAA Wrestling awards 80 of those every year, which is truly crazy.
 

moug

HR MVP
Dec 11, 2002
1,403
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The whole argument about MFF as a way ducking is funny because:

1. The NCAA committee dings you (see Kemerer and Nolf in 2019).

2. If Cassioppi was trying to protect a seed, then not wrestling Kerk would have been the ticket I guess (although see #1).
--Everybody gets beat by GSteve. No shame in it and the NCAAs won't see this as a non loss.
--Same dumbasses talking this junk would have been like, "Well if he was injured, he shouldn't have sent him out there" if Cass takes a season ender against GSteve. Cass can control the pace and protect his leg against anybody but he can't do it against Steveson because GS imposes his will against everyone.

Here is Cass vs Hilger where Hilger bends Cass's knee against the joint before the ref called PD.




3. Tom (right or wrong) was the same guy who threw Desanto under the bus for overreacting vs RBY in the 2020 dual. They got on him about that too.
Agree on all points. Perfect post
 
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wrstlrev

Scout Team
Feb 2, 2013
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Congrats to Alex. 4x. Great Hawk, but have to wonder without creating a huge debate, why the school let’s him wear that shirt every match. Would think in these times, a public university would have athletes stay away from overtly religious and / or political displays.
How about we don't lump someone bearing witness to the religious faith that is at the core of who he is and is a part of his wrestling with divisive political messages (I'll skip the examples as I don't want to devolve to there).
 

Jcchawk

HR All-American
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Oct 29, 2001
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Doesn't matter how many deep shots ADS gets in on if he can't even finish one. RBY may not take nearly as many but he's good at converting them when he needs to
Bullshit. He's what is ruining wrestling.
 

HawK + i

HR MVP
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OK what is the benchmark?
Definitely not AA, especially when you also consider in those same four years that Warner has wrestled, up to 316 different wrestlers could have also earned AA status. It's just not as elite of a status as other sports, such as basketball.

There's also only 78 D-1 wrestling schools, which means 10% of all starters earn AA status. Could you image if 10% of all D-1 football starters earned AA status each year? You're looking at over 280 All-Americans for comparison.

I would argue only finalists should earn AA status, 1st and 2nd place finishers. That would make 20 total All-Americans each year.
 
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ChiPackHawk

HR MVP
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Nobody really cares about big ten championships they certainly don't care about 3rd 5th or 7th. The big tens both the Duals and especially the tournament are a meat grinder compared to the other conferences. The goal of the tournament should be to make the nccas suffer as little injury as possible and don't destroy your seed in that order imo.
If Iowa didn’t/doesn’t care about Big Ten championships, then the names of Big Ten champions would not be on the wrestling room wall.
 
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IAChief32

HR Heisman
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Bullshit. He's what is ruining wrestling.

I disagree. If Desanto doesn’t adjust, then his career gravestone will read “Here lies AD. All American. He Shot a lot.” RBY is doing it within the framework of what wrestling is today…not defining it. Like the Bull did today…about the best you could say is he got the job done. The main difference between the two is that when PSU does it, it’s cagey and tactical acumen but when Iowa does it…it’s push em to the edge of the mat etc.
 

dtripp26

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Oct 29, 2003
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It drives me crazy when a ref calls stalling with ten seconds left in a one takedown match when there’s been no action for 6 mins and 50 seconds. At that point it doesn’t matter. Stupid.
Just more typical chicken 💩 refereeing. It's becoming the norm.

And if wrestlers can get away with it of course they're going to wrestle that way.
 
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IAChief32

HR Heisman
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Definitely not AA, especially when you also consider in those same four years that Warner has wrestled, up to 316 different wrestlers could have also earned AA status. It's just not as elite of a status as other sports, such as basketball.

There's also only 78 D-1 wrestling schools, which means 10% of all starters earn AA status. Could you image if 10% of all D-1 football starters earned AA status each year? You're looking at over 280 All-Americans for comparison.

I would argue only finalists should earn AA status, 1st and 2nd place finishers. That would make 20 total All-Americans each year.

Well Iowa must think something of it because their names go up on a wall.

I remember thinking like this years back…a buddy of mine told me that his bro finished 5th or 6th at NCAAs. I remember responding with a “meh” kind of answer. But after following the sport for years, seeing a guy AA has taken on a whole new meaning.

Young and Warner catch a lot of shit but we need guys like that on the backside if we hope to win titles.
 

dtripp26

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Today was an embarrassment to the sport and sports as a whole as far as the MFFs go. Iowa will take a lot of crap for this and deserves every bit of it. So lame. If someone has a legit issue, then fine. Disgraceful.
So it's a disgrace...unless they have a legit issue?

Who decides what is and isn't legit? You?

I'll await your update on Kem, Eierman and Cass Dr. Dipchit.