Does Marinelli redshirt?

[smalls103]

I don't often take a hardline stance on HR considering I'm bound to get shredded but...

anyone on the fence about Marinelli starting next year just doesn't know how good he is. He's far and away Iowa's best 165er RIGHT NOW. and consider he'll get about 5 or 6 months in the iowa room before the Hawkeyes first scheduled competition. He'll be ready.

you don't need to 'see how it goes' or see how he does in opens.

screenshot this if you want, and tell me i'm wrong 12 months from now (if i am). but at the present time starting Alex is the right play.

 

[LaxHawk174]

We zero points at 65 this year. Next year is our best chance to win a title given the fact we have four AA's graduating. We are already starting with a hole at 197 and 141. If Marinelli can AA next year, then we need his points. If he comes in the room and dominates, then there should be no question.

125-Top4
133-Top 4
141-Qualifier
149-Top 4
157-AA
165-If Paddock, maybe a qualifier. Marinelli AA.
174-Borderline AA
184-Anywhere from 8th to being in the finals
197-No points
HWY-If he is rehabbed, then he AAs. I think he beat two or three guys who AA'd. Don't wrestle him until after Midlands.

Spot on Chief, and I think you are being a little reserved if I do say so myself. I know I'm usually optimistic but I don't see any way that our 3 returning finalists don't make it back to the finals. Clark will probably have the toughest time, but during his tenure at 133 he has been in some stacked weight classes, and proven to be money when the lights are on in March. I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to see something like..
125: Gilman 1st - 24.5 pts
133: Clark 1st - 21.5 pts
141: Turk 2-2 - 2 pts
149: Sorensen 2nd - 17.5 pts
157: Kemerer 5th/6th - 10-12 pts
165: Marinelli 5th/8th - 6-12 pts
174: Meyer 5th/8th - 6-12 pts
184: Brooks 2nd/8th - 6-18.5 pts
197: Holloway - No pts
285: Stoll 5th/6th - 10-12 pts

The biggest factors will be how high on the podium Kemerer and Marinelli can go, as well as if Stoll can come back healthy and back to AA form. We need about 40-50+ pts between Turk/Kemerer/Marinelli/Meyer/Brooks/Holloway/Stoll to break the 100/110 pt barrier which I don't think is a ridiculous expectation at all, as I think our Big 3 will put up at least 60 pts between the 3. They put up 55.5 this past season with all 3 being runner ups.

 

[manmythlegend1]

MML...at least you didn't take the passive-aggressive approach. Marinelli is going to have a chip on his shoulder considering that he changed to Iowa from tOSU. Not only to win, but to prove the "you should have went" to the "we didn't want you anyways" fans of the Buckeyes.

Marinelli would have fit in nice at tOSU with Jordan moving up to 174. I guarantee any level headed fan is upset he is leaving the state. To the Crazy tOSU fans who say they didn't want him, Marinelli would NOT have looked good all tanned anyways. I also have a feeling you are right about the chip on his shoulder, and it will be the size of a tree stump to prove the Hall match was a minor blip in his career.

I thought that Joseph and Kemmerer would be going at each other for 4 years. Which I always thought Joseph was a little better. However it looks like it will be Joseph and Marinelli going at it for the next 4 years. If I am being honest I think Marinelli is a little better. Don't be offended if I hope I am wrong on that last thought...lol It's gonna be fun to watch no matter what

 

[andegre]

I don't often take a hardline stance on HR considering I'm bound to get shredded but...

anyone on the fence about Marinelli starting next year just doesn't know how good he is. He's far and away Iowa's best 165er RIGHT NOW. and consider he'll get about 5 or 6 months in the iowa room before the Hawkeyes first scheduled competition. He'll be ready.

you don't need to 'see how it goes' or see how he does in opens.

screenshot this if you want, and tell me i'm wrong 12 months from now (if i am). but at the present time starting Alex is the right play.

I agree, but I still think you keep the redshirt card in your pocket until after Midlands. (See Kaid Brock)

 

[Azchief32]

Marinelli would have fit in nice at tOSU with Jordan moving up to 174. I guarantee any level headed fan is upset he is leaving the state. To the Crazy tOSU fans who say they didn't want him, Marinelli would NOT have looked good all tanned anyways. I also have a feeling you are right about the chip on his shoulder, and it will be the size of a tree stump to prove the Hall match was a minor blip in his career.

I thought that Joseph and Kemmerer would be going at each other for 4 years. Which I always thought Joseph was a little better. However it looks like it will be Joseph and Marinelli going at it for the next 4 years. If I am being honest I think Marinelli is a little better. Don't be offended if I hope I am wrong on that last thought...lol It's gonna be fun to watch no matter what

Haha...Joseph reminds me of Marinelli. A bull in his own right and very good in his counter shots and tough to TD. Kem was more of a finesse guy while Cenzo would horse him. Bull against Bull

 

[championhawk]

I will add that I think Alex will be the guy right out of the gate. Give him as many matches as possible to learn from. Waiting for Midlands is the right choice in some instances. I don't think there is a reason to wait in this case.

 

[Jay on HR]

I will add that I think Alex will be the guy right out of the gate. Give him as many matches as possible to learn from. Waiting for Midlands is the right choice in some instances. I don't think there is a reason to wait in this case.

He would wrestle Iowa City Duals, which is realistically the equivalent of the Luther Open most years, probably a decent non-conference team but that doesn't mean they will have a legit 165 as they are unlikely to be a solid team top to bottom, and a Big Ten dual.

I would much rather keep his redshirt status and see him go to Luther, Harold Nichols, Joe Parasi, and Grand View Opens provided he wrestles the open, not freshman division.

Keeping in redshirt probably gives him the most opportunities to get a few matches under his belt.

 

[championhawk]

He would wrestle Iowa City Duals, which is realistically the equivalent of the Luther Open most years, probably a decent non-conference team but that doesn't mean they will have a legit 165 as they are unlikely to be a solid team top to bottom, and a Big Ten dual.

I would much rather keep his redshirt status and see him go to Luther, Harold Nichols, Joe Parasi, and Grand View Opens provided he wrestles the open, not freshman division.

Keeping in redshirt probably gives him the most opportunities to get a few matches under his belt.

I'm not talking about getting a few matches under his belt at opens. He needs every match possible against the Ok State/Iowa State and Conference opponents. There isn't any reason to wait unless one of the other guys makes huge strides this summer.

 

[nitlion6]

We zero points at 65 this year. Next year is our best chance to win a title given the fact we have four AA's graduating. We are already starting with a hole at 197 and 141. If Marinelli can AA next year, then we need his points. If he comes in the room and dominates, then there should be no question.

125-Top4
133-Top 4
141-Qualifier
149-Top 4
157-AA
165-If Paddock, maybe a qualifier. Marinelli AA.
174-Borderline AA
184-Anywhere from 8th to being in the finals
197-No points
HWY-If he is rehabbed, then he AAs. I think he beat two or three guys who AA'd. Don't wrestle him until after Midlands.

Chief,
I know your response was previous to my response to 23 but I will state it again. If Marinelli is deemed the difference in Iowa obtaining a team goal and not obtaining it - I am sure he will start.
I just don't think he is the difference in obtaining that goal, at least this year.

I know most of you wish you could have Burak this coming season and the combination of Burak and Marinelli this coming season would make a huge difference.

 

[pablow]

I'm sure the plan is to get him here for summer school and have him in the lineup 2016-17. In fact, I can't imagine it's not the plan.

No reason to pull the redshirt until after the Midlands. I mean he might miss the ISU dual, but hey, champions have to learn to overcome great obstacles.

 

[Jay on HR]

I'm not talking about getting a few matches under his belt at opens. He needs every match possible against the Ok State/Iowa State and Conference opponents. There isn't any reason to wait unless one of the other guys makes huge strides this summer.

Doesn't Iowa usually dual Okie State in January but this year was different with Kinnick?

Also have you seen Iowa states projected 165 for next season. If you haven't let me save you the time and tell you Marinelli is better off at an Open that weekend.

ISU could be a moot point though as ISU guys typically wrestle in the Harold Nichols which I suggested they send Marinelli to. Not all opens are D3 guys. Usually there are a couple D1 guys in the field.

There is value to leaving the redshirt on for November and December

 

[nitlion6]

I'm probably being a little prick for commenting on this, but Zain was a Cadet World Champ. He got beat out for the Junior World team by Pico. That said, Zain's the real deal.

That is not being a prick. It is a detail I got wrong. I have no problem with the correction.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Lax,

This is NOT directed at you or Iowa since everyone including myself believes in their guys, but will put the following factoids out there in the "for what it is worth" department. What you write could very well happen, as I do not know Iowa like you and others do. I will simply say that two champions, 3 finalists, and 8 AA's is very unusual at nationals these days and does not fit the trend. Only five teams even reached 7 or more AA's in the last five years, with one reaching 8. Teams with 7 or more AA's have below average finalists/champs, with the average at 7.2 AA's, 1.8 finalists and 1.2 champs. Of the other 10 teams that placed top 3 during that five year period, they averaged 5.3 AA's, 3.2 finalists, and 1.6 champs. Almost twice as many finalists and a higher champ rate with two less AA's at the same time!!!

Only one 1st place team won nationals with 7 AA's in the last five years. The average for teams winning it all is 5.8 AA's, 4 finalists, and 2.2 champs. So quality shines at nationals, and the philosophy of recruiting top pfp guys seems to bear out here. The concept of going for higher quality AA's rather than total number of AA's appears valid, and in this 9.9 scholly world, the two go hand in hand.

Having read this board for a number of years, much of this falls under the No Shit Sherlock dept, and I know that, but the imbalance is surprising to me.

 

[LaxHawk174]

Lax,

This is NOT directed at you or Iowa since everyone including myself believes in their guys, but will put the following factoids out there in the "for what it is worth" department. What you write could very well happen, as I do not know Iowa like you and others do. I will simply say that two champions, 3 finalists, and 8 AA's is very unusual at nationals these days and does not fit the trend. Only five teams even reached 7 or more AA's in the last five years, with one reaching 8. Teams with 7 or more AA's have below average finalists/champs, with the average at 7.2 AA's, 1.8 finalists and 1.2 champs. Of the other 10 teams that placed top 3 during that five year period, they averaged 5.3 AA's, 3.2 finalists, and 1.6 champs. Almost twice as many finalists and a higher champ rate with two less AA's at the same time!!!

Only one 1st place team won nationals with 7 AA's in the last five years. The average for teams winning it all is 5.8 AA's, 4 finalists, and 2.2 champs. So quality shines at nationals, and the philosophy of recruiting top pfp guys seems to bear out here. The concept of going for higher quality AA's rather than total number of AA's appears valid, and in this 9.9 scholly world, the two go hand in hand.

Having read this board for a number of years, much of this falls under the No Shit Sherlock dept, and I know that, but the imbalance is surprising to me.

I saw your post on OSU's board, and I appreciate the statistics. I think next year will have some of the strongest teams in recent memory for many teams. OSU, and PSU I could certainly see with 7-8 AAs each. Virginia tech with about 7 is possible, tOSU with 6-7. Obviously not all teams will accomplish their ceiling for AAs due to limited number of AA spots available, how brackets play out with match ups etc.., but the potential is there for the top 4-5 teams next year.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

I apologize. We have the best head coach., an incredible recruiter and coach in ☆ and now a tremendous fundraiser in Luke. Sorry to voice my opinion! There's problems somewhere because we didn't finish close to 1st.

Yep there was a problem. The Hawks shit the bed on day 3 and PSU was waaaaaaay better.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

When I read about Alex, I often think of Zain Retherford. Both are/were highly touted phenoms coming out of hs. Zain wrestled as a true freshman, had a great season (lost only 3 times) and took 5th at nationals after losing to Logie Bear in the semis and Port in the consi semis. That was a hell of a season and he earned PSU 12 points. PSU won the title by 5.5 points, so we needed his 12.

On the flipside, and at the very least, Alex will have to likely deal with Imart, Isaac Jordan, and Daniel Lewis as returning high AA's. Other strong guys will be at this weight too. That has to be a factor in deciding whether to pull his shirt. He could meet an Imart in qtrs and then a Lewis in consis and score 3 points. Tough decision always.

I'm hoping Brands and Alex don't factor into their decision whether to pull the shirt or not based on who the competition is. Worrying about what weight Imar will go or whether Bo Jo goes up or not can't be the thought process of a winning program. You can't worry about what other teams are doing, you just make a decision is he good enough to compete for a national title or does he have some holes in his game that we need to fix and let him go next year. In 2017-2018 Iowa may well be looking something like this if they choose to shirt him then. So, I'm not sure if letting him go next year and then red shirting the year after is a good idea either. I think he goes four straight years.

125-Jack Wagner RSFR
133-Brock Rathbun RSFR
141- Vince Turk Soph
149- Branden Sorensen Sr
157- Michael Kemmerer Soph
165- ?????
174- Kaleb Young RSFR
184- Cash Wilcke Soph
197- Steven Holloway Soph
HWt- Sam Stoll Jr.
165-Marinelli

 

[HawkTalk3]

125-Jack Wagner RSFR
133-Brock Rathbun RSFR
141- Vince Turk Soph
149- Branden Sorensen Sr
157- Michael Kemmerer Soph
165- ?????
174- Kaleb Young RSFR
184- Cash Wilcke Soph
197- Steven Holloway Soph
HWt- Sam Stoll Jr.
165-Marinelli

Could go Young at 165 and Paddock at 174 at that point.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

I'd be all for it if worked for Kaleb. Not sure how big he is as he has been up at 170. Not sure how big he'll be 18 months from now. If it worked out weight/health wise then certainly that could be an option.

 

[Jay on HR]

I'd be all for it if worked for Kaleb. Not sure how big he is as he has been up at 170. Not sure how big he'll be 18 months from now. If it worked out weight/health wise then certainly that could be an option.

Marinelli was up at 170 this season. Young just won state at 160 and finished the year ranked #2 by InterMat.

 

[edquinn06]

Marinelli was up at 170 this season. Young just won state at 160 and finished the year ranked #2 by InterMat.

Yes but he was a small 170. Could have gone 160 this year but went up for the better of the team. At night of conflict he said he hasent ruled out 157 for his first year, but said he would do whatever his coaches thought was best. 165 will be his ideal weight.

 

[edquinn06]

im real excited about young. When he committed he was a top 60 recruit. He worked his ass off and is easily a top 30 recruit in his class. I'm still real excited to see more of Paddock on the mat. He had a rough year and weight management at 65 was said tobe a problem. Looked a little tired and slow at 65. I think he should spend next year building his body with Rutt and take over 74 when Meyer graduates.

 

[Azchief32]

Chief,
I know your response was previous to my response to 23 but I will state it again. If Marinelli is deemed the difference in Iowa obtaining a team goal and not obtaining it - I am sure he will start.
I just don't think he is the difference in obtaining that goal, at least this year.

I know most of you wish you could have Burak this coming season and the combination of Burak and Marinelli this coming season would make a huge difference.

Wish we would have shirted Burak this year for next. Said so before the season but knew it wouldn't happen. I don't know the full story on it but it could have been Burak's choice. I just know Brands is a full speed, we put our best team out there kind of guy. Don't know if he has a realist bone in his body.

 

[championhawk]

Doesn't Iowa usually dual Okie State in January but this year was different with Kinnick?

Also have you seen Iowa states projected 165 for next season. If you haven't let me save you the time and tell you Marinelli is better off at an Open that weekend.

ISU could be a moot point though as ISU guys typically wrestle in the Harold Nichols which I suggested they send Marinelli to. Not all opens are D3 guys. Usually there are a couple D1 guys in the field.

There is value to leaving the redshirt on for November and December

Big Ten scheduling demands could make OSU fall in November more often. If he is clearly our best guy than send him out there and let him build up his ranking and seeding. If comes out blazing he could rise up the rankings rather quick. That pays dividends in the post season. I trust our coaches to make the correct call and normally am on the RS side of the fence.

 

[Jay on HR]

Yes but he was a small 170. Could have gone 160 this year but went up for the better of the team. At night of conflict he said he hasent ruled out 157 for his first year, but said he would do whatever his coaches thought was best. 165 will be his ideal weight.

Right. I was just correcting him that Marinelli was the one at 170 all year, not Young.

 

[Jay on HR]

Big Ten scheduling demands could make OSU fall in November more often. If he is clearly our best guy than send him out there and let him build up his ranking and seeding. If comes out blazing he could rise up the rankings rather quick. That pays dividends in the post season. I trust our coaches to make the correct call and normally am on the RS side of the fence.

The Big ten has always been a grind, not sure why Iowa would change their ways, but maybe they will.

Ill entertain they move Okie state to November but Kyle Snyder proved you can get 12 matches and earn a good seed at nationals. With the Big ten schedule as tough as it is plus Midlands Marinelli's resume will be plenty strong if he truly is one of the best guys.

You are talking about blowing a redshirt pretty much for the Oklahoma State dual's sake. I already said he will face the ISU guy if he goes to Harold Nichols, not to mention he could see Lewis at Joe Parasi, a Minnesota wrestler at Luther, and so on. It's not like he will only wrestle d3 and JUCO guys at the opens. Heck Alex Meyer beat Crutchmer at an open two years ago.

Don't write off the experience he can get elsewhere so quickly.

 

[LaxHawk174]

The Big ten has always been a grind, not sure why Iowa would change their ways, but maybe they will.

Ill entertain they move Okie state to November but Kyle Snyder proved you can get 12 matches and earn a good seed at nationals. With the Big ten schedule as tough as it is plus Midlands Marinelli's resume will be plenty strong if he truly is one of the best guys.

You are talking about blowing a redshirt pretty much for the Oklahoma State dual's sake. I already said he will face the ISU guy if he goes to Harold Nichols, not to mention he could see Lewis at Joe Parasi, a Minnesota wrestler at Luther, and so on. It's not like he will only wrestle d3 and JUCO guys at the opens. Heck Alex Meyer beat Crutchmer at an open two years ago.

Don't write off the experience he can get elsewhere so quickly.

As long as he wrestles in the open division and not the freshman division
But I agree, waiting until after the Midlands is not a bad idea, (Ie. Joe Smith and waiting until after Scuffle to pull the shirt.)

 

[Jay on HR]

As long as he wrestles in the open division and not the freshman division
But I agree, waiting until after the Midlands is not a bad idea, (Ie. Joe Smith and waiting until after Scuffle to pull the shirt.)

Agreed, that's why I put that in my very first post on this page!

 

[championhawk]

The Big ten has always been a grind, not sure why Iowa would change their ways, but maybe they will.

Ill entertain they move Okie state to November but Kyle Snyder proved you can get 12 matches and earn a good seed at nationals. With the Big ten schedule as tough as it is plus Midlands Marinelli's resume will be plenty strong if he truly is one of the best guys.

You are talking about blowing a redshirt pretty much for the Oklahoma State dual's sake. I already said he will face the ISU guy if he goes to Harold Nichols, not to mention he could see Lewis at Joe Parasi, a Minnesota wrestler at Luther, and so on. It's not like he will only wrestle d3 and JUCO guys at the opens. Heck Alex Meyer beat Crutchmer at an open two years ago.

Don't write off the experience he can get elsewhere so quickly.

You seem hell bent that you are right and everyone else is wrong. There isn't a correct answer in April 2016. Nobody will know the best answer until March 2017 with hindsight in play. I see the advantages in both scenarios. I am siding with putting our best guy on the mat at the start of the season. No big deal that we disagree. By the way, the Big Ten grind has nothing to do with why the OK State dual is getting harder to schedule.

 

[Pennstate1985]

How a true freshman wrestler does at nationals is 100% on them, and not on when the rs gets pulled. For example, last season we had two prominent guys have their redshirts pulled midseason, Martin and Ryan. They finished 1st and DNP. PSU over the last six years started four freshmen from day one, and they finished 2nd, 5th, DNP, and DNP. Small sample size, but no real difference. If the guy is good and easily wins the room, start him. Especially since I think an extra 5-10 points may make the difference next year. Health isn't a given in years 4 and 5. Just ask Hunter Stieber and the Altons and some of your guys.

 

[LaxHawk174]

How a true freshman wrestler does at nationals is 100% on them, and not on when the rs gets pulled. For example, last season we had three prominent guys have their redshirts pulled midseason, Martin, Ryan, and Smith. They finished 1st, DNP, and 5th. PSU over the last six years started four freshmen from day one, and they finished 2nd, 5th, DNP, and DNP. Small sample size, but no real difference.

If you are referring to Jake Ryan he was a RS FR. Smith also finished 7th. But the point still stands, the timing of the redshirt coming off ultimately doesn't matter. I think keeping the RS on for the first part of the season is more of a security measure to let them adjust to D1 life with training, and school, as well as if things don't go according to plan.

 

[Pennstate1985]

If you are referring to Jake Ryan he was a RS FR. Smith also finished 7th. But the point still stands, the timing of the redshirt coming off ultimately doesn't matter. I think keeping the RS on for the first part of the season is more of a security measure to let them adjust to D1 life with training, and school, as well as if things don't go according to plan.

Are you saying the memory of a 52 year old man is failing him? Fixed.

As to your central point, I could probably take the devils advocate position with you and say the drama surrounding the "pull it or don't pull it" has its own set of perils. I lean toward your position, and would prefer that redshirts get pulled later rather than sooner for the reason you state, but we are talking 18 year old kids, and the eagerness to help the team right away may add pressure to show the coach you're ready. As I say, trust the guy making the big bucks. He's been to the rodeo before.

 

[Jay on HR]

You seem hell bent that you are right and everyone else is wrong. There isn't a correct answer in April 2016. Nobody will know the best answer until March 2017 with hindsight in play. I see the advantages in both scenarios. I am siding with putting our best guy on the mat at the start of the season. No big deal that we disagree. By the way, the Big Ten grind has nothing to do with why the OK State dual is getting harder to schedule.

Just arguing my case. If You are going to get upset about me making my point when all I am discussing is my point of view, what's the point of this thread?

I have no problems with you, I was just responding to your posts with my thoughts.

 

[McCulloughd]

Just arguing my case. If You are going to get upset about me making my point when all I am discussing is my point of view, what's the point of this thread?

I have no problems with you, I was just responding to your posts with my thoughts.

I don't see anything wrong with anyone expressing their point of view.

 

[Azchief32]

I think he going to have more of a chip from the Mark Hall loss.

Meh...we all know Mark Hall is a great one and so does Marinelli. But it was an exhibition match...something to learn from.

 

[so cal hawkfan]

Wish we would have shirted Burak this year for next. Said so before the season but knew it wouldn't happen. I don't know the full story on it but it could have been Burak's choice. I just know Brands is a full speed, we put our best team out there kind of guy. Don't know if he has a realist bone in his body.

Well there's a first for everything I guess and for the first time I disagree with ya chief. Hindsight as they say....If our Hawks hadn't shit the bed on Day 3 we were right there. Nathan wrestled great the whole tournament and came up short against Pfarr and MacIntosh. In fact he looked fantastic all season. I can't even remember who his back up was. Klaproddt? Whoever it was our season would've been even more dismal without Nathan. If you think about it other than the last day of the NCAA tournament and that dual against NC st our season was fantastic.

I've never been a fan of stockpiling talent in hopes of being better later. That's like saving your bullets and hoping the other guy runs dry. I say get in the fight with guns a blazin'!!!

 

[Azchief32]

Well there's a first for everything I guess and for the first time I disagree with ya chief. Hindsight as they say....If our Hawks hadn't shit the bed on Day 3 we were right there. Nathan wrestled great the whole tournament and came up short against Pfarr and MacIntosh. In fact he looked fantastic all season. I can't even remember who his back up was. Klaproddt? Whoever it was our season would've been even more dismal without Nathan. If you think about it other than the last day of the NCAA tournament and that dual against NC st our season was fantastic.

I've never been a fan of stockpiling talent in hopes of being better later. That's like saving your bullets and hoping the other guy runs dry. I say get in the fight with guns a blazin'!!!

I am also the guy that agreed with Cael when he shirted everybody last season though and plenty disagreed with me which is cool...I get both sides of the argument. With Marinelli filling a hole, and what I think will be a nice upgrade with Kemmerer at 57, the only real question would have been 41. Sure, we would have fell out of the top five but damn what a lineup.

 

[24 so far]

I am also the guy that agreed with Cael when he shirted everybody last season though and plenty disagreed with me which is cool...I get both sides of the argument. With Marinelli filling a hole, and what I think will be a nice upgrade with Kemmerer at 57, the only real question would have been 41. Sure, we would have fell out of the top five but damn what a lineup.

Well, you can screw around with your lineups and your redshirt decisions and throw away 1 year if you're winning National Team Titles. Iowa isn't doing that, so they don't have the "luxury" to wait another 5 years to play redshirt roulette to see if it works out.

Put your best guys out there year after year and let the chips fall where they may (they probably could have bulked up Kemerer from Day One to take 157 from Cooper - which obviously doesn't matter at this point). Recruiting is constant anyway, if you do it well enough, you should be able to replace those who are leaving, with others chomping at the bit to come. That's not going to happen near often enough at the current rate of placement as a team.

 

[Azchief32]

Well, you can screw around with your lineups and your redshirt decisions and throw away 1 year if you're winning National Team Titles. Iowa isn't doing that, so they don't have the "luxury" to wait another 5 years to play redshirt roulette to see if it works out.

Put your best guys out there year after year and let the chips fall where they may (they probably could have bulked up Kemerer from Day One to take 157 from Cooper - which obviously doesn't matter at this point). Recruiting is constant anyway, if you do it well enough, you should be able to replace those who are leaving, with others chomping at the bit to come. That's not going to happen near often enough at the current rate of placement as a team.

Welp, worked for tOSU and PSU. It's not really throwing away anything because you're talking about one guy. The chips fall where they may really hasn't been working out the past six years. But hey, we win a crap load of dual meets.

 

[24 so far]

Welp, worked for tOSU and PSU. It's not really throwing away anything because you're talking about one guy. The chips fall where they may really hasn't been working out the past six years. But hey, we win a crap load of dual meets.

If that one guy is the difference between 1st and 4th (or worse as we've seen) I'll take my chances.

The chips don't "fall where they may" when everybody comes in and redshirts, that's called the status quo. So far that strategy has resulted in a bunch of "not in sniffing distance of 1st" results at Nationals, placement undetermined, for 6 years running.

What we don't know is the residual effect it has now and has had on recruits who think coming to Iowa means an automatic redshirt, something some of these Elite guys surely are not interested in doing.

You see a better team with PROVEN commodities than the one they'll put out next year coming in the near future? We have a legitimate chance to win the damn thing next year, do whatever it takes to put your best team on the mat.

 

[Stanley75]

If that one guy is the difference between 1st and 4th (or worse as we've seen) I'll take my chances.

The chips don't "fall where they may" when everybody comes in and redshirts, that's called the status quo. So far that strategy has resulted in a bunch of "not in sniffing distance of 1st" results at Nationals, placement undetermined, for 6 years running.

What we don't know is the residual effect it has now and has had on recruits who think coming to Iowa means an automatic redshirt, something some of these Elite guys surely are not interested in doing.

You see a better team with PROVEN commodities than the one they'll put out next year coming in the near future? We have a legitimate chance to win the damn thing next year, do whatever it takes to put your best team on the mat.

I like your thought process. However how many guys do you know that a redshirt didn't help their progression. We need some nation champions to help build on the future. A redshirt freshman has a much bigger chance. It could mean the difference in one or multiple NC for Alex.