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Effects of Kneeling

I have seen this same thing or a variation of it on every social media platform over and over. I guess it’s the “woke” way to think or to act. It is however complete and utter BS. The logic behind this is so faulty I’m not sure it should be called logic at all.

We need to come together as a country and work to fix wrongs that are going on in our country. How do we do that? Oh oh oh I have an idea....let’s divide the country....let’s make our act of solidarity something that 20-50% of the population will absolutely hate.

The only people who benefit from this are our politicians. They need us to be divided. They need us angry at each other. Well this kneeling isn’t gonna hurt their cause that’s for sure. Wake up. We are being played.

The Civil Rights of the 1960s divided the country as did MLK Jr.

Right now, I'm okay with division. President Borderline Personality Disorder has turned it into an art form.

Conservatives (not saying you are or aren't) trying to virtue signal on this can eat shit. LMAO.
 
I assume you're going to cover the missing dollars for those "that do have a problem with it"?

Ferentz "gave the OK" to cover his ass. If he were OK with it, it already would have happened prior.

And frankly, I don't give a rat's ass how Kirk sees it, I care how I do. I kneel when in Church, I ain't doing it for anybodies "cause", you can take that to the bank.

:rolleyes:

If you attend church and take Christianity seriously, it would behoove you to actually read the book that's being mused about.

Again, if you don't like it, they don't care. And if a few butthurt morons "take their business elsewhere," pin a rose on their nose.

I for one will choose to be happy and a Hawkeye.;)
 
Instead of telling us how pissed off you all are about the kneeling and you won’t being going to the games, can you save everyone the pain and go away now? Kneel in church? You sound like a real Christian.
 
I support the team kneeling, and will still attend games with my friends and my daughter.

But I think I've probably attended the last game with my parents. They're older. They either won't go or if they go they will be yelling at the players (or people around them) to stand for the flag. Both are Trumpers.

My grandfather fought in WWI, and I have other family in the military. There's just a whole generation out there that equates "saluting the flag" with "saluting the troops" and doesn't understand this kneeling style protest or doesn't have enough of a "you do you" attitude to leave it be.

They'd probably make a scene and end up on a Twitter video yelling and acting wild. Anyone else have people like this in their family, or just me?

Without nearly any exception, my mom, all of my siblings, their spouses and their kids are largely brainwashed for Trump, even though he wouldn't give them the time of day if they asked him and his initiatives and policies don't benefit them in any way whatsoever. I'm starting to think it's largely a regional thing as they live in rural areas of north central Iowa, always have and probably, always will. You conform to the thoughts, feelings and attitudes of those we live among, for better or worse.

And I agree, your folks should stay home if you suspect they'll act like jackasses in that situation.
 
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I am 58 yrs old. I served my country. I am A Marine. I support kneeling during the anthem. I have a very hard time supporting What I call corperate patroitism. Hell, we cant even get our elected officals to protect our costitution and we are worried about some men playing a game that are kneeling before our national athem is played, lol. I swore to protect the consitution, no where did it say to to protect the flag. Sorry for the rant. Pick your battles, Protect the Consitution .
 
Well said IA Hunter. Funny how the NFL is now walking back from their fake patriotism, anti Kaep stance as well. They could save us all a ton of money w/those ridiculous flyovers that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars before the games as well.
 
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Without nearly any exception, my mom, all of my siblings, their spouses and their kids are largely brainwashed for Trump, even though he wouldn't give them the time of day if they asked him and his initiatives and policies don't benefit them in any way whatsoever.

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Wow, bro. That looks like underground footage from the church my mother attends, and i wish I was kidding honestly.

I call it "The Church of the Endless Hymns". I keep waiting for the songs to end so I can sit my lazy ass down, but the congregants just keep on going and going and then a few start talking/chanting some unintelligible gibberish and I start to think lunch may never launch and I'm going to miss kickoff.
 
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I support the team kneeling, and will still attend games with my friends and my daughter.

But I think I've probably attended the last game with my parents. They're older. They either won't go or if they go they will be yelling at the players (or people around them) to stand for the flag. Both are Trumpers.

My grandfather fought in WWI, and I have other family in the military. There's just a whole generation out there that equates "saluting the flag" with "saluting the troops" and doesn't understand this kneeling style protest or doesn't have enough of a "you do you" attitude to leave it be.

They'd probably make a scene and end up on a Twitter video yelling and acting wild. Anyone else have people like this in their family, or just me?
Sadly we all do. I tried to talk to some of those family members about how kneeling isn't disrespecting the troops and that to me, and many others, it symbolizes that we all cannot stand shoulder to shoulder until we are all treated equally. For this, I personally plan to kneel when sporting events resume.

What's funny to me is that I don't really see the harm in kneeling and placing your hand over your heart while facing toward the flag. That's not disrespectful. If someone really wanted to disrespect those who have served then they can either turn their back on the flag or talk and be loud during the national anthem (something someone in the WH did not that long ago that many don't talk about).
 
I remember as a Boy Scout learning how to treat and respect the flag, that is: proper disposal of the flag when worn out, how to properly illuminate the flag at night, how to fold the flag, and how to properly hang it up vertically. I remember we practiced folding it until we got it done properly in order to earn a badge or that thing we clipped on our belts. To this day when I see the flag displayed vertically with the stars on the upper right side I always cringe. That said, I've also seen the flag made into bumper stickers, bikinis, t-shirts, bandanas, face masks, shorts, boxers and underwear, funny stickers, etc... so I'm not quite sure what to think.

What I'm saying is, no matter what we do to the flag physically or how we treat or view the flag, I believe what I think the flag ultimately stands for (freedom, bravery, sacrifice, independence) is simply too strong and too powerful to be diminished by people who simply want to kneel during the national anthem. If we have to start enforcing rules on how to be "patriotic" then we've lost sight of the true meaning of the flag. Only weak symbols used by countries, and especially those used by totalitarian regimes (think N. Korea) punish people for not being patriotic. I don't want us to go there.

I'm also happy the Confederate flag is being called out. If you're so patriotic then don't glorify the one flag that truly brought so much pain and suffering to this country. I understand how some people view it as honor, glory, gallantry and all that. I'm a huge civil war buff and know that war was not fought over just slavery. But it was considered an enemy flag and the reason why its still around and popular in some areas is because the North (and Lincoln's attitude) towards the South was one of leniency, let's not punish but bring back the Union. Most countries would have outright banned that flag I would like to think and looked at it as a terrible time in our history wrought with much suffering.

If there are those in pain or feel there is injustice in our world and they want to protest that by kneeling? I'm ok with that, it's their right and I won't judge them as being less patriotic or less faithful to our democracy.
 
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You know, I thought Ottumwa was the craziest guy on this board but after reading some of MesaClones thoughts, I'm starting to think he's moved to #1. Well done. The fact that you think Antifa is some kind of organized group out there is one thing, but to truly think a 90 year old man, George Soros, actually has the power to put this all together around the country just floors me. Dude, take your bunny rabbit ears off and go outside and get some fresh air. You need it.

I don't think he put it all together. I think he looks for radical groups and supports them with funding...which he clearly does. Not really an arguable point, Soros funds radicalism...he's proud of it.
 
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What war did you fight in?

You're a real piece of sh*t, you don't like the guy so you throw that in. You want to put everything on a pedestal you believe and act like you're the moral compass of this board. You act like you're so proper but you just made me want to kick you in the teeth. Your agenda is closed minded, ignorant, and "your" justice is a fart in the wind. The next big issue and you will move right on.

How about you jump into the 20 veterans that take their lives each day for those "wars" they fought in. Dirtbag
 
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My dad fought in WW2 tough guy, so I’ve got nothing against veterans. And actually fought in the battle of the bulge. So you can also go screw yourself. Not sure how my agenda is close minded. I make no bones about things needing to change and I also don’t give 2 shits if it inconveniences some people, just as it did in the 60’s. Not asking you or anyone else to feel guilty about being white. I want change and I want some radical changes.
 
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My dad fought in WW2 tough guy, so I’ve got nothing against veterans. And actually fought in the battle of the bulge. So you can also go screw yourself. Not sure how my agenda is close minded. I make no bones about things needing to change and I also don’t give 2 shits if it inconveniences some people, just as it did in the 60’s. Not asking you or anyone else to feel guilty about being white. I want change and I want some radical changes.

You seriously don't see how you are closed minded? You a really really really dumb
 
You got me. Guys like you will never understand. I’ll admit I was probably born on 2nd base compared to a lot of these kids. These kids are just asking for equal treatment and to be treated like men. Keep thinking it’s about the kneeling, or the shirt. Gundy has admitted he was an idiot in a tv interview last night. Kirk has admitted the program has made mistakes, especially in regards to minority players. All I’m saying. Done talking to fools like you. I’m out.
 
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But perhaps necessary.

My parents lived through the '60s. Most people not killed by the KKK, drug overdose, or Vietnam survived it just fine.

College athletes kneeling during the national anthem, which most fans are too drunk to properly sing along to anyway, will not be the end of Western Civilization or the complete undoing of Judeo-Christian values in America.

If older people or "Trumpers" can't understand that, then that's not anyone's problem but their own. There are plenty of people who have served in the military who are okay with 1st Amendment expressions.

Too bad you have to label and be condescending to those who dont see it the way you do. I guess that a sign of these times also.
If the players want to protest then by all means protest. But they need to do it on there time. Not on my time. I and most dont go to games to watch a political protest. I came to watch a football game. You dont bring your politics to work.
Regardless of the fact why they are doing it and even though they say they arent disrespecting the flag and anthem that is exactly what they are doing. All the excuses are nothing more than rationalization and justification for said behavior. Just because you can doesnt mean you should.
And yes I am a vet , a former player and donor.
 
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You got me. Guys like you will never understand. I’ll admit I was probably born on 2nd base compared to a lot of these kids. These kids are just asking for equal treatment and to be treated like men. Keep thinking it’s about the kneeling, or the shirt. Gundy has admitted he was an idiot in a tv interview last night. Kirk has admitted the program has made mistakes, especially in regards to minority players. All I’m saying. Done talking to fools like you. I’m out.

And this attitude you display is emblematic of much of the current movement. If you disagree with them...you're to shut up. If you continue to hold to your view...you're ignorant and unworthy of conversation. If you persist, you're a racist and its OK that you be subjected to violence and intimidation.

Consider this...for once in your life. The people who disagree with you...and for the record none of us disagree that their IS racism and that the police DO need reform...are as well informed, experienced, and understanding of the situation as you are. We all believe everyone should be treated equally under the law.

We hold and comprehend the same information you do though each of us brings different life experience to this debate. Our opinions are no less valid than your own...and you don't get to discount our beliefs because you think we're too old or are not of the right skin color. Every American has to be part of this as an open and honest discussion...not just those who YOU deem worthy of having a valid opinion.
 
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I support the team kneeling, and will still attend games with my friends and my daughter.

But I think I've probably attended the last game with my parents. They're older. They either won't go or if they go they will be yelling at the players (or people around them) to stand for the flag. Both are Trumpers.

My grandfather fought in WWI, and I have other family in the military. There's just a whole generation out there that equates "saluting the flag" with "saluting the troops" and doesn't understand this kneeling style protest or doesn't have enough of a "you do you" attitude to leave it be.

They'd probably make a scene and end up on a Twitter video yelling and acting wild. Anyone else have people like this in their family, or just me?
Yes, but they will not be attending any football games
because Russia will not let them leave the country.
 
I support the team kneeling, and will still attend games with my friends and my daughter.

But I think I've probably attended the last game with my parents. They're older. They either won't go or if they go they will be yelling at the players (or people around them) to stand for the flag. Both are Trumpers.

My grandfather fought in WWI, and I have other family in the military. There's just a whole generation out there that equates "saluting the flag" with "saluting the troops" and doesn't understand this kneeling style protest or doesn't have enough of a "you do you" attitude to leave it be.

They'd probably make a scene and end up on a Twitter video yelling and acting wild. Anyone else have people like this in their family, or just me?
What a relief for you're parents.
 
Mesa, here's what I don't understand. You just stated there is racism and that police do need reform. I'm not even sure what else there is that we are arguing about. You can have your beliefs on the right and I can have mine on the left and we probably won't agree on much else. Not sure how it got to 5 pages if most people on here agree w/those views. I'm all good w/that.
 
First, I think that national anthem at sporting events is dumb. It's two non-related events (sports and nationalism). Second kneeling during the national anthem is dumb, but everyone's right. Why not kneel before the game? Come and kneel right after coming out of the tunnel. Kneel during the coin toss. Hell, lets take a stadium wide moment of silence for 8:54 seconds. Just don't knee during the anthem which some people no matter how much you discuss will be offended.
A protest that doesn’t offend people is useless. Protests must be provocative and disruptive or they will be ignored. You can’t protest politely.
 
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BLM wants to defund the police this tells me they think all police are bad.
The founding fathers wanted to defund the army. Do you think that means they thought all soldiers were bad? Or do you interpret that as a desire to live in a less authoritarian state? The defunders aren’t looking for a lawless society. They simply want one controlled with fewer armed authorities, just like the founders.
 
I get that. But it’s kneeling during the national anthem that causes problems. Could it be done at another point during the game?

No way. If players are going to kneel I'd rather they do it during the anthem that having some other potential stoppage.
 
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I hope they all kneel together. If that's what the team needs to move forward in unity then so be it. Kneeling has been viewed as divisive, but it doesn't have to be that way. The fans just need to understand when they do it that it's a protest of police brutality and racism. Not the troops.

Nope, players should be given the choice to do what they want without being criticized. A player can be in favor of standing for the anthem and be against racism.
 
That statistic is essentially meaningless unless you pair it with the number of crimes committed/attempted and break it down by racial populations.

Income levels and single parent household status correlate more closely with incarceration rates than any other statistics...so those rates may be tied far more closely to those factors than to race. Obviously, these factors are all inter-related but you cannot make leaps from one portion of the relevant data. Asians, for example, have high rates of dual parenting households and high income rates...and very low incarceration rates. Are their rates low because of their race/ethnicity? Point being, race is only one factor among many and any of these factors in isolation can be deceiving.
Do Blacks Commit More Violent Crimes Than Whites?
Is a black person more likely to be a criminal than a white person? According to 2016 stats from the US Census Bureau non-Hispanic whites makeup 61.3% of the population, and blacks make up 13.1% of the population. (2016 US Census results / archive)

2017-10-26-03.58.58-pm.jpg

2016 US Census by Race


If we look at the FBI statistics for violent crimes we can see that whites committed 241,063 of the 408,873 violent crimes, which is 58% of the total. So 61% of the population is committing 58% of the violent crimes, so the math lines up. (FBI Table 21 Arrests by Race and Ethnicity, 2016 / archive)


2016 FBI Violent Crime Statistics
If we take a look at the number of violent crimes committed by blacks we can see they committed 153,341 of the 408,873 violent crimes, which is 37% of the violent crimes. If blacks make up 13% of the population they should only be committing 13% of the crimes, instead, they are committing crimes almost three times as many crimes as they should be.

Is the US Criminal Justice System Guilty of Systemic Racism against Blacks?
The myth of white privilege says that the police and the court system in the United States is guilty of systemic racism and bias and unfairly arrests and prosecutes blacks. Fortunately, there is an easy way to prove this isn’t true by looking at the population and crime records of another developed first world county that doesn’t have any of the biases the US system is accused of. Looking at the ethnic breakdown of the United Kingdom (England) we can see that blacks makeup 2.8% of the population. (The ethnic population of England and Wales broken down by local authority / archive)

2017-10-26-04.20.42-pm.jpg


The UK Government doesn’t provide a table of data the way the FBI does, they only present a graph, however by looking at it you can see the crime statistics are almost an exact match for the US statistics. The top graph is a representation of the total population, and blacks are represented by the small light blue sliver. The next line represents arrests, and you can see the light blue sliver is much bigger here, almost three times as big. The next line which represents convictions and the light blue sliver representing blacks is again almost three times the size of the first line. (Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2014 / archive)

2017-10-26-04.24.47-pm.jpg

UK Crime Statistics By Race
When we eliminated the US Justice System, which is accused of giving whites privilege and having a systemic racial bias, blacks still committed crimes disproportionally higher than their percentage of the population. The disproportionate rate that crimes are being committed in the US is almost identical to the rate it is in the UK, proving there is no bias in the US Criminal Justice system.

Why Are Blacks More Likely to Become Criminals
As we discussed in our Black vs White The Breakdown in Family Values article there are many contributing factors. It starts with black pregnancies that create single-parent households, that are more likely to live in a poverty or low-income situation. This low-income situation creates an environment that produces children that have a higher rate of dropping out of school or are more likely to engage in criminal behavior. Creating a repeating cycle of low-income single parent households that remain uneducated and more likely to commit crimes in the future.

Systemic biases or institutional racism isn’t what’s creating this situation. Black men and women who are engaging in sexual activity, without using birth control, and getting pregnant are the people responsible for creating the problem. Black males who create children, don’t get married, and abandon their parental responsibilities are the people who take a bad situation and keep it from getting any better. The system isn’t to blame, the black people involved are.

Black vs White Crime Statistics Conclusion
  • It’s an uncomfortable truth but blacks commit crimes at nearly three times the rate that whites do.
  • Blacks commit 36% of the violent crime in the US even though they are only 13% of the population.
  • Blacks in England commit crimes at nearly three times the rate of their population rate.
  • The parity in black crime rates in the US and black crime rates in the UK prove that there is no systemic or institutional racial bias in the US, and that the judicial system is not unfairly targeting blacks.
  • There is no systemic racism in US Judicial System.
  • There is no racial bias that unfairly targets innocent blacks in the US Criminal system.
  • The cycle of black crime begins with the breakdown of family values that has 72% of black pregnancies creating low-income single parent households.
  • Black children growing up in single-parent low-income situations are likely to repeat this cycle unless they raise children in a married two-parent household with more stability.
  • White privilege isn’t creating a system that unfairly arrests and prosecutes blacks, the black parents making bad life choices are creating situations that increase the likelihood of bad outcomes happening are the ones responsible.
  • White privilege isn’t real and isn’t responsible for blacks committing more crimes, black adults making poor life choices are the ones responsible.
Sources:
Heritage.org: Marriage: America’s Greatest Weapon Against Child Poverty / archive
US Census: 2016 US Census results / archive
FBI: FBI Table 21 Arrests by Race and Ethnicity, 2016 / archive
Guardian: The ethnic population of England and Wales broken down by local authority / archive
UK Government: Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2014 / archive
 
I think some fact need to brought forward in regards to the false police reform narrative.

What we know:

329 million people in the US. 40-42 million who are Black.

800,000 law enforcement officers in the US.

100 million law enforcement interactions with the public each year.

1000 deaths during these encounters.
Deaths per encounter: 0.00001‬.
Black deaths per encounter...0.000003

Roughly 30,000 complaints of excessive force each year....roughly 8% of those, or 2400 are sustained.

2400 / 100,000,000 = .00024 %

By any objective measure, that doesn't equate systemic problems...

Who among us has that kind of success ratio in their industry???

If there was such systemic racism in the police forces those the number of black deaths would be much higher.
Not to mention that blacks commit more crimes in ratio to their population. More blacks are killed by blacks than by the police.

Facts matter
 
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Add in the disproportion on Abortion for blacks vs whites. Dems do a good job of controlling the black population.

ATLANTA, Georgia, December 5, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) — The recent U.S. Center for Disease Control (CDC) report on abortion in the U.S. concluded that while abortions are in decline, there is a disproportionate number of minority abortions.

According to the CDC report, the rate of abortion among African-American women is far higher than among white American women. While black women make up only six percent of the U.S. population, they account for 35 percent of abortions reported.


That doesn't include unreported and underreported abortions. The CDC report includes only abortion disclosures from 29 states. Meanwhile, Arizona, California, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Washington, Wisconsin, and Wyoming either "did not report, did not report by race/ethnicity, or did not meet reporting standards."

White people comprise 77 percent of the population, and white mothers account for 37 percent of abortions. Hispanics make up 17.6 percent of the population and account for 19 percent of abortions.

Pro-life advocates have long argued that the abortion industry specifically targets minorities, highlighting the movement's racist roots.

Planned Parenthood founder and eugenics advocate Margaret Sanger started “The Negro Project” in 1939 to thwart the population growth of the poor and minorities, or, as Sanger put it, to discourage “the defective and diseased elements of humanity” from their “reckless and irresponsible swarming and spawning.”

Sanger, a Darwinist, enlisted black ministers to convince minorities to use contraceptives, explaining, "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out the idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”

Jesse Jackson, before he ran for president in 1984, acknowledged that the abortion industry targets the black community, calling the disproportionate percentage of minority abortions "black genocide."

Jackson told Jet magazine in 1973, “Abortion is genocide," and wrote in The Right to Life News in 1977, “What happens to the mind of a person, and the moral fabric of a nation, that accepts the aborting of the life of a baby without a pang of conscience? What kind of a person, and what kind of a society will we have 20 years hence if life can be taken so casually?”

In 1980, Jackson went so far as to equate abortion with slavery, telling The Phoenix that the idea that the baby is his mother’s private property and she may do with him however she wishes “was the premise of slavery. You could not protest the existence or treatment of slaves on the plantation because that was private and therefore outside your right to be concerned.”

Rapper Nick Cannon publicly lambasted Planned Parenthood for its promotion of "real genocide" and African-American "population control."

The CDC also documented 1.3 percent of reported abortions — roughly 13,000 abortions — were late term on potentially viable babies beyond 20 weeks’ gestation.
 
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Are the blacks that are against BLM and that the country is systemically racist, "not black?" There are several that speak out against the ideology of the Left and the gas lighting they do with race.
 
They claim that you can't include Black on Black crime when you speak of BLM...well when the BLM protesters kill 11 UNARMED blacks that completely mutes their narrative (they killed more unarmed during these "protests" then cops did in the last decade) . Lives matter or they don't, when you try to grand stand on something that happens .001% <guess, not fact> (there are roughly 875 million interactions per year with police) of the time all while turning a blind eye and deaf ear to the BoB crime that happens (systemically) within Democrat governed cities...you point is rendered flaccid like creepy Joe's harry leg.
 
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You got me. Guys like you will never understand. I’ll admit I was probably born on 2nd base compared to a lot of these kids. These kids are just asking for equal treatment and to be treated like men. Keep thinking it’s about the kneeling, or the shirt. Gundy has admitted he was an idiot in a tv interview last night. Kirk has admitted the program has made mistakes, especially in regards to minority players. All I’m saying. Done talking to fools like you. I’m out.

What Gundy and Kirk have done was a political sound bite. The Gungy thing was blown way out of proportion. Heck the player didnt even know what OAN was. When it was explained to him then the outrage?????
In all my years associated with Iowa Ive never seen nor heard any issues that some are talking about. Even after the black boycott in the late 60s. How could thing be that bad and nobody heard about it. Especially in this day and age. This whole thing is about opportunity. Nobody wants to have the finger pointed at them. Because when it does like Doyle your position becomes untenable.
 
Mesa, here's what I don't understand. You just stated there is racism and that police do need reform. I'm not even sure what else there is that we are arguing about. You can have your beliefs on the right and I can have mine on the left and we probably won't agree on much else. Not sure how it got to 5 pages if most people on here agree w/those views. I'm all good w/that.

Well, I believe the argument is about tactics...and about what affective reform looks like. I think you are correct that we essentially agree on the problem, but when we use rioting and emotionalism to make our point I think its counterproductive. Change that lasts needs to come from consensus...so why don't we all, as you suggest, start working on the things that we DO agree on and then have calm respectful discussion on the issues on which we differ. To me, that means not telling people to shut up or that their view doesn't matter or is racist/ignorant.
 
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A protest that doesn’t offend people is useless. Protests must be provocative and disruptive or they will be ignored. You can’t protest politely.

Yep. That whole Gandhi freeing India from occupation through peaceful protest...didn't work at all. Oh...wait...it did.

Your comment is the kind of thinking that leads to blood in the streets with everyone retreating to their "base" and refusing to fix anything. Its the logic of terror groups like Antifa and should always be called out as wrong.
 
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The founding fathers wanted to defund the army. Do you think that means they thought all soldiers were bad? Or do you interpret that as a desire to live in a less authoritarian state? The defunders aren’t looking for a lawless society. They simply want one controlled with fewer armed authorities, just like the founders.

This is historically absurd. The Founding Fathers DID argue over the need for a standing army in a time where militias could be called up quickly when needed...nothing any of them would argue against a professional army in our modern setting. Defunding was never an issue...its just an absurd analogy. "Defunders" want the kind of chaos that comes from the absence of professional law enforcement...that environment allows them to intimidate peaceful citizens whenever they choose to do so...much like they are doing in CHOP and in the midst of the riots we've already seen play out on TV. Without law and order and well funded policing...with BETTER training, not less (which is what you'd get with "defunding")...society falls into a Lord of the Flies state. Its an insane idea and shouldn't be a part of any serious discussions about reform.
 
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Yep. That whole Gandhi freeing India from occupation through peaceful protest...didn't work at all. Oh...wait...it did.

Your comment is the kind of thinking that leads to blood in the streets with everyone retreating to their "base" and refusing to fix anything. Its the logic of terror groups like Antifa and should always be called out as wrong.
Gandhi wasn’t inoffensive. He was an agitator. Peaceful protesting doesn’t mean quite and acceptable. You don’t know history.
 
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This is historically absurd. The Founding Fathers DID argue over the need for a standing army in a time where militias could be called up quickly when needed...nothing any of them would argue against a professional army in our modern setting. Defunding was never an issue...its just an absurd analogy. "Defunders" want the kind of chaos that comes from the absence of professional law enforcement...that environment allows them to intimidate peaceful citizens whenever they choose to do so...much like they are doing in CHOP and in the midst of the riots we've already seen play out on TV. Without law and order and well funded policing...with BETTER training, not less (which is what you'd get with "defunding")...society falls into a Lord of the Flies state. Its an insane idea and shouldn't be a part of any serious discussions about reform.
You are greatly misinformed.
 
I find it funny that the people calling others who don't agree with them Trumpers. I have gone to Iowa games for the last 25 years with a good friend of mine. He called me yesterday and said he would not attend another Iowa game because of the kneeling. He went off on the players today and other things. I was surprised and disappointed and told him that. He is a lifelong Democrat and cannot stand Trump. Maybe some of you that try to blame Trump for everything from starting WWIII to your wife's last pregnancy need to grow a pair. Typical snow flakes.
 
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The founding fathers wanted to defund the army. Do you think that means they thought all soldiers were bad? Or do you interpret that as a desire to live in a less authoritarian state? The defunders aren’t looking for a lawless society. They simply want one controlled with fewer armed authorities, just like the founders.

Sorry, I'm not even sure how to respond to your point. If you believe for 1 minute there is a similarity between the founding fathers telling most of the soldiers to go home (the war was over) and defunding the police today, you need to return any diploma you ever received. Defunding the police will only increase crime against those most vulnerable, not help them. Please look at the stats of a black man getting killed by a criminal vs a policeman. It's not even in the same ballpark. Please think before speaking.....
 
You are greatly misinformed.

My MA is in history, albeit an emphasis on ancient history...but history nonetheless. Your characterization of the FF's view on standing armies is deeply wrong. When a threat was present, they were about funding the hell out of the army...many of them argued against the cost of maintaining a standing army ONLY because militias were so easily called up AND effective (most men were trained in the use of firearms and were ready to serve if called up in the militia). None of that relates to the need for a standing army in the modern era post TWO world wars and a Cold War.

One of us is ill informed, but I can assure you it isn't me.Likely, someone quoted a bare fact of an FF being against the concept of funding a standing army...and you tried to carry that over into some modern analogy. Well, guess what? You were given partial and irrelevant information...perhaps go back and do your own research and stop swallowing whole the pablum from your radicalized professor.
 
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