NCAA wins doesn't equal profits. Where are you getting that? Lickliter was 10-22 in his last season at Iowa. 9th place BIG finish. He got fired!
Fran might post that exact same record this season.
Fran Gets A Pass This Year
- Thread starter IowaHawkeyeFBnBB4Life
- Start date
Fran might post that exact same record this season.
So overall wins = profits?
You made the comaprison to a for profit business. Im trying to understand what you think equates to earnings.
Real jobs dont have Ws and Ls.
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It does in my world. Consecutive round of 32 exits doesn't mean shit to me if we go right back down to 10 win seasons. And those NCAA tourney exits were 20 point beatings!
We made the 1st round and got beat by 20 points to Tennessee.
Both round of 32 games were 20 point beatings. Is that the mountain top for Fran? Are we supposed to be giddy with those results?
Your world view is not shared by many, Ncaa wins are the currency of college basketball.
To fire the only guy whos shown hes capable of bringing any measure of success over a huge stretch of time, for one bad year, would be insanly short sighted.
Especially when you look at whats coming in and what coaching prospects you could bring in.
Youve already made the investment, at this point you have to see if it will pay off.
If Iowas not any better in 2 years then fire him.
"over a huge stretch of time"? Alfraud took us to the bank (by your standards) in 2005 and 2006. We then went 3 seasons without any currency with Lickliter. So, what the hell are you talking about? What huge stretch are you talking about?
I see what's coming in. Some good basketball players that lack athleticism. Connor, Patrick and Wieskamp are all good players. None of them are athletic enough to defend in the BIG. I haven't seen enough of Nunge and Garza but nothing about them tells me they will solve our current problems, which is defense and guard play.
Let me ask you because you said it at the end. What payoff? What are your expectations with where we are now and nwhat we have coming in? Do you see a BIG title in our future? Great 8? Final Four?
Iowa won one ncaa game between Davis and Fran. Let me repeat, all that matters in college basketball is ncaa wins, to everyone but you apparently. Its especially what matters to recruits.
P McCaff and Wieskamp don't lack athleticism by any regular definition, and Im not at all interested in arguing about it with you because I don't care what you think.
I expect to get back to the ncaa regularly and have a shot at the sweet 16 on a regular basis.
I've watched both of them play in person, multiple times. The absolutely lack high D-1 athleticism. They aren't fast or explosive. I don't know if we'll ever see a Sweet 16 with Fran. He doesn't recruit well enough.
I agree with your post. This is year #7. Many teams take the court with freshmen and sophomores. That's become the norm in college basketball. I do think we have some nice, young talent ... That being said, when you lose to Nebraska-Omaha (at home)... or whatever its name is ... you have some major issues.
Its really not the norm to have a team this young unless youre consitently bringing in nba prospects.
Completely different situations. Not apples to apples. College hoops is cyclical for all but the big dogs. No program just has a constant linear uptick in performance for perpetuity.
With that said, yes Fran can and should be questioned about the talent on the roster this year. He is responsible for assembling the roster. Frankly, the recruiting in the 13-15 classes was not at a level good enough to win in the B1G. The good players from those classes would be Jok, Baer (a walk-on who is best suited as a role player/6th man), and Moss, who is just starting to contribute. Fleming, Ellingson, Jones, Williams, Wagner, Uhl, Dickerson either left, injured or just not all that great. That is far too many misses to not have a down year once the 4 senior starters left.
The point is that Iowa was a program which appeared in the NCAA tournament 3 times in 14 years prior to Fran making it 3 straight years, almost an entire generation of irrelevance of the Iowa program. Barring breaking the law or rules, Fran's seat is not hot this year or even next year, nor should it be. Iowa would be laughed at for canning a coach in that scenario.
The results for Fran will speak for themselves over the next few years. The current freshman class looks decent/good, if he can follow it up with 2 more such classes he's set up for another 3-4 year run of NCAA tournament appearances. If he can't, then he'll be gone.
There will be bumps in the road for every program. That's to be expected. But after 7 years on the job, those bumps should be relatively small unless some incredible summit was achieved. If you're Wisconsin and you go to back to back Final Fours, an early tournament exit would be acceptable. Even expected. Going back to Lickliter results after 2 round of 32 beatings will get you no pass in my office. You'll have to answer some questions and they better be good answers.
I get what you are saying, but what questions does Fran have to answer? What is is he going to say, other than "we missed on some guys and ended up with a roster that aren't B1G-caliber"? Iowa is paying the tab for 3 straight "meh" recruiting classes. There is no easy fix around that, short of bringing in 4-5 Top 100 players in the same class. And even Ohio State with that type of class missed the tournament next year.
Firing Fran just isn't an option. Like it or not, making the tournament for 3 straight years at Iowa is going to get you a year or two to get back to that level. It just is.
The time on the job has zip, zero to do with whether or not Iowa will have down years. Like it or not, Wisconsin with their 14 straight tournament appearances and two Final Fours is in a different neighborhood than Iowa. My main point is I don't understand the "this isn't acceptable" statements about the program. We sound like Nebraska football fans, who think the only thing standing between them and a return to glory is a coaching staff that tries harder.
Iowa isn't an easy place to be great at basketball. Not impossible, but not easy. Landing Cook was a huge for the program, as was the commitment of Wieskamp. Now if Fran can continue to build the roster, he could have something that sustains.
After the question and answer session, there are going to be guidelines going forward. Clear cut expectations. That's what you should do as a responsible boss. If at any time during the Q and A, I'm not satisfied with the answers Fran is giving me, I'm going to set the expectations for next season. and those will exceed the round of 32 beatings we have taken. I'm going to start updating my short list of coaches.
If Fran gives me the "we missed on a couple of recruiting classes" reason, I want to know the specifics on how it happened and how it's not going to happen in the future.
You never, ever punt a season. Not as a responsible administrator with aspirations of titles.
The problem is almost no coach actualy lives up to these expectations.
Also you earlier said you would fire someone for doing exactly what you now said would get Wisconsin a pass.
I think you just need to stop with this subject.
I made my point very clear. You don't agree. We get it. I don't care what you think. YOU'RE FIRED!
Again ......reading this makes me laugh ......I'm pretty much embarrassed for some of the people posting on here. I love the comment about Fan not recognizing talent because Wieskamp doesn't have what it takes to be a division 1 ball player. Maybe the special needs guy that thinks this should do his homework. All of the recruiting sites have him in the top 10 at his position ...as a matter of fact ESPN has him as number 6 at his position and number 43 in the nation overall. But remember ....Fran is one crazy SOB thinking this Wieskamp kid will ever amount to anything ....please just don't talk ...or post!
Who in the hell said Weiskamp can't play D-1 basketball???? Your tampon is bunged up on you. Nobody said Weiskamp is not a D-1 basketball player! Lol.
That what it sounds like to me!
I've watched both of them play in person, multiple times. The absolutely lack high D-1 athleticism. They aren't fast or explosive. I don't know if we'll ever see a Sweet 16 with Fran. He doesn't recruit well enough.
I've watched both of them play in person, multiple times. The absolutely lack high D-1 athleticism. They aren't fast or explosive. I don't know if we'll ever see a Sweet 16 with Fran. He doesn't recruit well enough.
You should read all of the posts for context. I'll just ignore your comments if you are going to be dishonest about my comments or too lazy to read all of the comments, right out of the gate.
In fact, I'll just put you on ignore. Dishonest and lazy aren't traits that I hold in high regard. Have a nice life.
I would love to see you have a face to face ...
... the one thing we all have in common...we're just fans using a free BB board to express all of our expertise. Its just another way to pretend. Another way to imagine...a Q & A......LOL...Yeah ..you might be right ...I couldn't read all of your comments ...I was laughing to hard!!
When one attempts to speak on subjects they know nothing about it becomes quickly obvious.
Sure. Wisconsin went to back to back Final Fours. Let me know when Fran gets us to just 1 and I'll come back and apologize.
anyone who thinks Iowa fans enjoy losing is a little different. Then plays if I was AD Q & A. But notice people never have answers....I mean really what would any of us do different when it comes to recruiting? What would we sell to potential recruits that Fran hasn't already done.
Do any of us know the conditions?
Like academic consideration..I suppose we could dream up a fake class like UNC..but that probably wouldn't fly around here.
recruits attitudes toward Iowa (and not necessarily bad attitudes either)...I mean maybe some of them don't consider Iowa as premier of a program as others...Wisconsin certainly can sell a lot more success since the turn of the century than Fran can.
We don't know if on a visit Fran didn't feel the recruit would be a good "fit" ... we can complain all we want but it is his program.
Course if Fran had numerous off the court issues with his players ... some of these expert posters...would be the first to holler.
I suppose Fran could cheat...but that probably wouldn't go over well either.
All I'm saying is anyone who thinks recruiting is a walk in the park at Iowa...think again...unless you want to ignore academics, character & cheat every chance you get.
Doesn't mean we cant compete (even for Championships) ...now if the other 13 B1G schools would just trying to do the same thing.
Lickliter also won just 13 and 15 games his other two seasons and the team was going backwards. Every season there was a mass exodus of players transferring because of him. Fran is coming off of 4 straight 20 win seasons and 3 straight NCAA appearances(yes the first one counts). He is going no where unless he leaves on his own.
Fran is far from perfect. His refusal to use timeouts drives me nuts some times and the team not playing defense is frustrating but to act like Iowa should be a national power and reload with talent every year is laughable. It happens in sports, hell look at MSU football. They went 3-9 this year, you think Dantonio should be fired? (integrity issues aside)
Overall: B1G
2007–08 Iowa 13–19 6–12 8th
2008–09 Iowa 15–16 5–13 10th
2009–10 Iowa 10–22 4–14 T–9th
Iowa: 38–57 15–39
2010–11 Iowa 11–20 4–14 10th
2011–12 Iowa 18–17 8–10 T–7th NIT Second Round
2012–13 Iowa 25–13 9–9 6th NIT Runner-up
2013–14 Iowa 20–13 9–9 6th NCAA First Four
2014–15 Iowa 22–12 12–6 T–3rd NCAA Round of 32
2015–16 Iowa 22–11 12–6 T–3rd NCAA Round of 32
2016–17 Iowa 3–5 0–0
Iowa: 121–91 (.571) 54–54 (.500)
Well by your standards then Iowa hasn't recruited well since Raveling was here. I will not argue about our soph/jr classes that had some misses but if you can't be excited about our freshman class with pemsl, cook, moss and bohannon and can't give Fran credit there then don't know what else to say. As for athleticism look at our last sweet 16 team. Besides Dean Oliver not like that team was loaded with "athletes". There is a reason Weiskamp is a top 50 recruit and ok maybe you've seen him play before but talking to people who seen him play plenty completely disagree with your assessment he lacks D-1 athleticism.
I watched him play 4 days ago. He's a very good basketball player. Put up 33 pts, I think. He's not a great athlete. I don't know what else to tell you. He reminds me of Baer as far as athletes go. That's not a bad thing. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
And that last Tom Davis Sweet 16 team is a great example. Very avg athleticism on that team. But we did have a very good PG. That helps. Fran hasn't been able to recruit a good PG. Thanks for helping me make my point.
Wieskamp is very much in the mold of Baer in terms of their makeup...as one high school coach said to me...Wieskamp does everything "right"...Baer was somewhat the same...just had that 6th sense in his ability to see where the ball is coming off the rim.
As far as athletic comparision....its Wieskamp..not even close...he is a terrific basketball athlete...and were are talking a 11th grader.
Bettendorf plays Musc Jan 6...should be there unless bad weather.
As far as athletic comparision....its Wieskamp..not even close...he is a terrific basketball athlete...and were are talking a 11th grader.
Bettendorf plays Musc Jan 6...should be there unless bad weather.
couldn't agree more...not only have I seen him but in speaking to high school coaches that have competed against him...for a youngster (now just a 11th grader) he is very basketball athletic. Will only get stronger...
Fran definitely deserves blame for this year. Mostly for not upgrading the roster so that there wasn't such a huge drop off. He had to see this coming.
and lets me honest Iowa BB (other than Tom Davis 1st 3 years with the talent that Raveling left him) has not been a B1G W-L record juggernaut..
Raveling 26-28
Davis 89-87(last 10 years)
Alford 61-67
Lick 15-39
Fran 54-54
that's 0ver 30 years of history..245 - 275.
so ya we can blame Fran for this year if you want...but then lets give some credit also (24-12 the last 2 years)...its not monumental but its at least a step up. Thus the reason the OP started the thread....I'm also not ready just to cash it in this year...ya we may lose more than we win in the B1G but at least we have a group we can more forward with...how far? who knows..
So you've written off all of the language arts education you ever received in life. Good to know.
Our Beck court cannot guard a phone booth right now. Our defense is the reason we have a losing record. The 2 back court players we have committed in the next 2 classes are not athletic enough to guard BIG guards. This is my problem with Fran's recruiting as it sits. Wieskamp and Connor McCaffrey are quality BIG offensive players. There is no doubt about that. but scoring isn't our problem.
Oh the horror of being ignored by a whiny bitch. You do nothing but whine and complain on both the football and basketball forums and add nothing worth reading. Time for you to be ignored mwahaha!
