Fran gives too many minutes out. Who should see less minutes?
- Thread starter DEREKoh2
- Start date
I'm a Pemsl guy in spite of numerous criticisms of him being slow of foot. I would trim Kriener's a bit, but I'd have to wait to see what improvements JN has made.
I actually think Kreiner should get most of Pemsl’s minutes. I like Pemsl but he’s really undersized and unlike Kreiner, can’t shoot outside 4 feet from the basket. And Kreiner is the better defender on big guys.
Nunge will be good but he just needs to stay patient behind Cook for one more year.
Nunge will be good but he just needs to stay patient behind Cook for one more year.
Pemsl is not a 5 or a 3. Kriener will be Garza's back-up. Pemsl, Cook and Nunge will get the minutes at the 4. Cook will get 25 of them barring foul trouble. Either Pemsl or Nunge should redshirt but neither of them seems willing. Whoever plays better and more consistently between Pemsl and Nunge will get the lions share of the back up minutes at the 4.
25 minutes for your top guy? That is why Fran has to go 11 deep and its one of the biggest issues.
Nunge is the better option at back up 4. Way more skills and versatility and it’s not even close. The issue is what do you do with Bear? He’s not a 3 either and with Dailey and Joe W that’s a log another jam position too.
I’m sorry but I’d sit Pemsl and I do like him but it’s about making tough choices instead of parceling out 4-6 minutes to try to make a guy happy. In the end no one is happy doing that.
If we're throwing people's feelings out the window and doing what will make us most competitive it's going small, even though we have to many bigs.
That's what most of the best teams are doing and we have not been able to defend them playing 2 and 3 bigs.
The best way to defend the ball screen heavy offenses that are popular now is to be able to switch every thing. It helps out in so many ways and really messes up the opponents offense.
So.
1Jbo
2.Moss or Daily
3.JW
4. Bear
5. Cook
That's not our best group of individual offensive players but it's our most effective lineup and strategy.
That's what most of the best teams are doing and we have not been able to defend them playing 2 and 3 bigs.
The best way to defend the ball screen heavy offenses that are popular now is to be able to switch every thing. It helps out in so many ways and really messes up the opponents offense.
So.
1Jbo
2.Moss or Daily
3.JW
4. Bear
5. Cook
That's not our best group of individual offensive players but it's our most effective lineup and strategy.
If you really want to go small you could even slide Dailey to the 3 and Wieskamp to the 4 since Joe's such a prolific rebounder.
I can agree with this. We need four outside shooters on the court at all times. And I'm ok with Garza being one of them.
I would do the exact opposite...Nunge should be getting minutes backing up Cook and also some minutes on the wing as Fran seems to insist on making Nunge a wing player. Pemsl should only get scraps when Garza, Cook, Nunge, Kriener and Baer are in foul trouble.
Moss isn't a PG, his handles are arguably one of the weakest aspects of his game.
+1,000,000,000 Barring foul trouble, I don't see how or why Cook plays less than 30 minutes a game. The same should go for our top players. JBo, Cook and Garza should be logging 30+ minutes a night unless they are injured or in foul trouble. If Moss become more consistent in his play and effort, he is probably a 25 minute guy. Wieskamp should also get a lot of minutes, he really has a polished game for a high school player, should be able to swing between the 2 and 3. Those five players should be getting the bulk of the minutes if we are to be a top half team in the B1G. I would hope McCaffery is healthy and able to run the point to give JBO a breather and also slide to the 2. Nunge has a lot of potential and I would hope he cracks the top 8. Dailey has proven to have some juice, has length and can defend and rebound well, so hope he continues to get minutes at the 1, 2 and 3. Baer brings a nice spark from the bench, so there is your top 9...the remaining minutes should only be distributed when the top guys are in foul trouble or completely gassed. Why Fran insists on going 12 deep continues to baffle me, its not like our roster is filled with first round picks and top tier talent like Kentucky and we don't play a 40 minutes of hell style that would require substitutions every 3 minutes like Nolan Richardson or Dr. Tom. Establish your top 9 and ride those horses to the post season. Continue to divide minutes out like its a YMCA youth league where everyone gets to play, I think will stunt the growth of the team and cap their potential to really gel and make some noise.
I would do just the opposite of the OP--sit Pemsl on the bench, unless there is an injury or foul trouble, and split his minutes between Nunge and Kriener.
Baer. How he starts and has free reign on the perimeter is mind boggling
That would be my 4 when Baers not on the floor.
May even be better to put Baer back to 6th man and start Daily or Conner.
The point of going small would be for defense.
The problem with Garza, as we saw last year is that he really limits what you can do defensively.
Anyone who gives less than full effort on defense this year needs to ride the bench.
Kriener was starting to come on last year after missing 8 games due to concussions. He has a versatile offensive game and if we play more man defense he is the better option of all the bigs. He is one of the players that is most likely to have a breakout year.
Huh?
Listen, I'm in the Pemsl camp, also, but, Kreiner has more upside than either one of those guys as an all around, well-rounded, talent. He has a jump shot from beyond the arc and within, can work around the rim, dribble, and plays solid Defense.
IDK. Fran has 22 years of head coaching experience and 400 wins. I think I'm going to leave it up to him to figure out. 
Agree with C/Seahawk that Bohannon (PG) Cook(PF), and Garza (C) should be locks for 30 minutes They are the backbone of the team and clearly distant of their back-ups. They need to be on the floor for as much as they can handle. SF and SG is less settled and should be a battle for minutes.
That severely limits playing time for Kriener, Pemsl and probably Nunge. Baer is less limited because he can play SF also.
My biggest concern about limiting time for these C and PF back-ups is the development of Nunge, a player who I feel has the most potential of all 4 players - by a considerable margin. The roster situation is tailor-made for a Nunge redshirt but I doubt he goes that route.
Baer is a wildcard in the minute distribution allotment. The B10's 2016-17 "6th Man of the Year" looked very average last year. If he returns to the form and production he showed as a sophomore, his playing time off the bench should be significant.
It will be interesting to see how it gets sorted out but I agree with those who believe that in any event, Fran needs to establish a 9 man rotation.
That severely limits playing time for Kriener, Pemsl and probably Nunge. Baer is less limited because he can play SF also.
My biggest concern about limiting time for these C and PF back-ups is the development of Nunge, a player who I feel has the most potential of all 4 players - by a considerable margin. The roster situation is tailor-made for a Nunge redshirt but I doubt he goes that route.
Baer is a wildcard in the minute distribution allotment. The B10's 2016-17 "6th Man of the Year" looked very average last year. If he returns to the form and production he showed as a sophomore, his playing time off the bench should be significant.
It will be interesting to see how it gets sorted out but I agree with those who believe that in any event, Fran needs to establish a 9 man rotation.
Agree, if we are going to continue to play two bigs at once and defend high screens with the hedge in man Kriener has to see allot more time.
Otherwise we're stuck in zone and have to count on big improvements from everyone in that department.
I mostly agree with this, except I see Luka at fewer than 30 min and no more than 25. He goes all out and needs regular rest. I think JBo's minutes depend on how Moss, Dailey and Joe W play and how many minutes he would get when Connor is on the floor. I expect Connor to get 12-15 min at PG. Cook's minutes are critical, but I want to see much less standing and observing on the defensive end. That might mean fewer minutes, but probably at least 25, unless foul trouble.
The analysis of Baer and Nunge is dead on, which makes me believe that the big competition for minutes is between Kriener and Pemsl, for back up at 4/5. Right now, I would vote for Pemsl sitting because he is the most limited, but the early season play and any injuries should determine how it plays out.
This...........EXCEPT Garza HAS TO be on the floor A LOT for this team to be really successful. GO HAWKS
I don't know but i would think the top 6 guys are Bohannon, Moss, Wieskamp, Cook, Garza and Baer. Then you play the best guard out of McCaffery and Dailey. and play the best big out of Nunge, Pemsl and Kriener. So you have 8 guys playing the majority of minutes with maybe a 9th guy to play spot minutes if there is foul trouble or something like that.
IDK. Fran has 22 years of head coaching experience and 400 wins. I think I'm going to leave it up to him to figure out.
I agree to an extent. I am worried that Fran seems very concerned about getting everyone involved, to what I feel is hurting the chances of winning. He'll make comments about "needing to get so and so in the game more" after certain games. Why? The point is to win. This is not a participation league. Play your best players as much as they can handle and still be rested enough to make it through the season. If guys want to play more, tell them to improve.
Yeah, for Jbo, Garza & Cook. For most of the rest of the guys the difference between them is fairly small. Getting guys in the game is more than just not hurting feelings - it's seeing who is developing their game in-season, who can make some plays and letting those play that are deserving of a chance to make a contribution. It's a long season. Getting guys in the game "the right way" keeps everyone prepared in case there is an injury.
For me, it's a close call.
You identify a significant part of the dilemma.
There's little separation, often, between the lower portion of the roster.
Just take Pemsl-Nunge. I think Nunge is the better option at the 4 given his length, and potential for offense further from the basket. But was he significantly better than Pemsl last year on the court, consistently. I don't think so.
Totally agree with the principle that 25 minutes is far too little time for our best player. Cook is 21 years old. He should be able to play 35 minutes a night. To put that in perspective, just imagine the stamina it took for the average infantryman to campaign in North Africa or New Guinea in WW2. Or, as Kevin McHale said "I'm 30 years old. If I couldn't play 40 minutes of basketball 3 times a week I'd have to have cancer."
Nunge was not ready to play last season. He was weak; totally lost on defense and generally lacking in court awareness. Pemsyl is a much better option at the 4 spot for the 8-10 minutes per game Cook is not on the floor.
Nunge was not ready to play last season. He was weak; totally lost on defense and generally lacking in court awareness. Pemsyl is a much better option at the 4 spot for the 8-10 minutes per game Cook is not on the floor.
The other part of the dilemma is that the 3 best offensive players are the 3 worst defenders which leads to the scenario of getting blown out in half your conference games.
Now there is the most accurate statement made on this site in quite awhile. Go back to our final game against Michigan and watch Cook's defensive effort, shot selection and effort in transition and you'll see why we won 4 games in the conference. If Cook is willing to play hard and smart he is our best player and deserving of 30 minutes a game. If not he hurts the team more then he helps.
I just love the passion on this board to talk basketball in June
You are all winners to me
You are all winners to me
Oh and btw Kriener is much better than Pemsl and that is coming from a Wahlert alumnus
BirdistheWord
HR Heisman
Fran goes deeper than I wish he would at times, but he did demonstrate some restraint with the 2015-16 team. That team had a clear best 5, and Woody was the only starter that averaged less than 27.7 minutes per game. This year we could have that again if Wieskamp is as good as advertised, and someone (like Moss, Kriener, or Nunge) has a break out year. IMO we need to be much improved at the 2G/SF positions to erase last years disappointments (and I think we will be).
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