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Iowa City West vs. Muscatine

I didn't go to the game, but I'm happy that West won. I'll be there Friday if West wins again on Thursday. Sounds like Muskie brought a good-sized crowd, though.

Weiskamp can come in and contribute right away, but I do slightly worry about his turnovers. If he was a string bean like Jarrod Uthoff was in high school at Jefferson, then I'd be fine with it because you know that a guy like that will get bigger and stronger with the ball when he goes to college. I just worry about Weiskamp's ball handling because he's already a fairly strong kid.
 
To the guy who said Patrick is way ahead of Utoff. No he is not. He is actually behind Utoff. Most likely dontomhis cancer treatments. That’s not a slam on him at all. He just is not close to being ready for college ball. I would say he reminds me more of Michael Jacobson that played at Waukee, Nebraska and sat out at Iowa State this year .
 
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andy1992 said:
To the guy who said Patrick is way ahead of Utoff. No he is not. He is actually behind Utoff. Most likely dontomhis cancer treatments. That’s not a slam on him at all. He just is not close to being ready for college ball. I would say he reminds me more of Michael Jacobson that played at Waukee, Nebraska and sat out at Iowa State this year .
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I'm not positive, but I think he was referring to Wieskamp
 
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Ladell-hawk said:
Lew Masterson said:
The more i watch patrick the less i think hes a division 1 impact player. I think aaron white is a good comparison but i dont think he'll be anywhere near the rebounder white was, which is what made him an impact player with all his garbage buckets.
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I disagree. Patrick has excellent quickness for someone his size. Once he grows into his frame and puts some muscle on, he will be a force. I'm not worried about what his shot looks like, he has shown he is a good shooter and should continue to get better.
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I think that “physically” Patrick’s comparable to Uthoff in high school. Tall, skinny, pretty athletic. Patrick is also very skilled for a kid that size but more of a street baller game than Uthoff.
 
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RocknRollface said:
In fairness he said shoot, not make.

Those guys on Muscatine refused to even shoot, it was bizzar looking.

No one within ten feet.
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Fair enough. The hawks run out Pemsl, Wagner, and Uhl who between them haven't taken five jumpers in the last 2 years, and I don't think thats even stretching it at all. I love their effort, and their Hawks all the way, but you can't be effective at this level when your go to move is to try to over power your defender from 12 feet away from the basket in under the hoop. At least Cook has made an effort to expand his game. Nunge was hot and cold as a jump shooter, but shows promise. Garza has a pretty solid mid range jumper, and can make the three as well.
 
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I was able to watch the game in Des Moines last night...the observation I would make about Joe is that even though his outside shot wasn't falling he scored 29 points while being double and sometimes triple teamed, against ball denial, etc......he made free throws but if his 3 point shot was falling I'm guessing he is very close to scoring 40 points.
 
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tony0051 said:
Pat is a legit 6'8"-6'9" HS JR who went thru cancer treatment. Hard to add muscle at that age with that length and those physical issues. Once he stops growing he can fill out a little. He will be a very good player at Iowa.

Joe is a Freak. Have watched him in some AAU feeds and HS games n have yet to see a better player on the floor. If he played in a major city he would be a top 20 national recruit.

For those saying Fredrick isnt athletic need to watch him play. Not a freak athlete but definitely more athletic than Ellingson or Ogelsby. Better shooter also.
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He will also be 18 this month, almost a full year older than his classmates.
 
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I've not seen Weiskamp play in person but I tend to get quite optimistic when I hear about all the contact that he is being forced to deal with right now,.... Most high school players never experience this and it's going to help him in the college game....
 
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Mitch122 said:
I'm not positive, but I think he was referring to Wieskamp
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If that is what he meant or I misread it wrong I am sorry. Yes, Joe is way ahead of Uthoff on most of his game. Uthoff was a better shooter in high school. However, if you said pick one for your High School team. I would pick Joe in a second. Uthoff had the perfect college game though. Joe needs to become a gym rat and shoot three after three. If he can get that shot down. He will be what Hawk fans think he will be. If he is a below average 3 point shooter in college. He won't be. Not dogging him because clearly he is very good. Just needs to be able to knock down the 3 at a higher clip.
 
unoHawkeye said:
How do you play high school ball for 3 / 4 years and aren’t able to hit wide open jumpers? Or even mid range jumpers? I didn’t watch the game but from everything I’ve heard, Joe’s teammates could get just about any shot they want
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You mean like pemsl? Who cant even make wide open 10 foot jumpers
 
Joes 3 pt shot is fine. May have been off yesterday but hits unbelievable shots from way beyond line with guys in his face. Most of season he shot 3s early in game when legs were fresh then took ball to hole when he tired. Guy never came out of game hardly and as hard as he worked for rebounds at that takes a toll. the other thing is what ever he does lack for the next level he will work on as much as he needs to
 
Rustys Dad said:
Went to the game as well: Your summary captured exactly what I planned to write.
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I was typing just a few quick thoughts on each guy. Maybe not exactly fair to mccaffery. Patrick has a nice game and certainly has some talent but he's more "raw" than JW at this point. I think he's got good length/skills/head for the game that will translate well at Iowa. He runs the court well for a tall kid. He's just going to have to bulk up significantly. Like I said at least 20 lbs. They need to be feeding him straight protein and cheeseburgers.

As far as weiskamp that's the first I've seen him in person. Dude was double or triple teamed every time the ball was in his hands and he still found his way to the rim with relative ease.
 
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UIHawkGuy8 said:
As far as weiskamp that's the first I've seen him in person. Dude was double or triple teamed every time the ball was in his hands and he still found his way to the rim with relative ease.
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First time for me, too (seeing him in person) ... I was surprised at his final stats at it seemed like a "quiet" 27 points. IC West (as you mentioned) pretty much collapsed around Joe any time he touched the ball. I love Joe's ability to get to the rim. He's got nice, wide hips and good ups ... and I love his shot. Watched him in pregames and just a nice stroke. We've seen lots of top Iowa high school kids come to Iowa and have "okay" careers ... I really do think Joe is a special player ... like in the Barnes, McDermot, Raef Lafrenz (spelling?) mold ... He's going to be a good one.
 
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Lew Masterson said:
You mean like pemsl? Who cant even make wide open 10 foot jumpers
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Why would you develop a jumper if you are 6’7 and the biggest player on the court in high school?

Also, I’ve seen him attempt only a few jumpers in college, so to say he can’t make them is probably less accurate than saying he just feels like he’ll shoot a higher percentage trying to get something around the rim
 
Saw JW against Linn Mar a few weeks back. He is the real deal. Came away most impressed with his ability to rebound. I knew he was a scorer but his ability to get to the ball was really impressive. He was always shadowed by someone and frequently 2 or 3 yet he got to the ball quicker than everyone. Great instincts
 
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Rustys Dad said:
First time for me, too (seeing him in person) ... I was surprised at his final stats at it seemed like a "quiet" 27 points. IC West (as you mentioned) pretty much collapsed around Joe any time he touched the ball. I love Joe's ability to get to the rim. He's got nice, wide hips and good ups ... and I love his shot. Watched him in pregames and just a nice stroke. We've seen lots of top Iowa high school kids come to Iowa and have "okay" careers ... I really do think Joe is a special player ... like in the Barnes, McDermot, Raef Lafrenz (spelling?) mold ... He's going to be a good one.
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Yeah, he definitely looks different that most Iowa kids coming through. Has me extremely excited.
 
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Gridiron24 said:
I didn't go to the game, but I'm happy that West won. I'll be there Friday if West wins again on Thursday. Sounds like Muskie brought a good-sized crowd, though.

Weiskamp can come in and contribute right away, but I do slightly worry about his turnovers. If he was a string bean like Jarrod Uthoff was in high school at Jefferson, then I'd be fine with it because you know that a guy like that will get bigger and stronger with the ball when he goes to college. I just worry about Weiskamp's ball handling because he's already a fairly strong kid.
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I'm not sure what you mean? Muscatine was looking for Joe to do everything, including trying to dribble drive from 25 feet out against 5-10 kids, being backed up by a 6-7 kid, who were very quick at swatting away the ball when he tried to dribble. He won't have anyone small like that guarding him in college. That's what seemed like it caused him the most trouble.
 
blackandgoldrainbows said:
I'm not sure what you mean? Muscatine was looking for Joe to do everything, including trying to dribble drive from 25 feet out against 5-10 kids, being backed up by a 6-7 kid, who were very quick at swatting away the ball when he tried to dribble. He won't have anyone small like that guarding him in college. That's what seemed like it caused him the most trouble.
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It was almost litterally one on 5, there was no passing.

You cant consistently drive against 3 and 4 defenders all game lonf with 6 hands swiping at the ball and not have some turnovers.

Put a couple of decent spot up shooters around joe and its a totally different game.
 
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I went to the game last night. My impressions:

JW: Smooth, started slow shooting and felt out the defense before really getting aggressive. He did look to pass but didn't have a lot of options. When you can score 29 without hitting an outside shot and the whole defense is moving to you, that is impressive. He took a lot of contact and between that and playing against double and triple teams that resulted in the turnovers. He is a special player.

PM: Really stayed within the offense and didn't force things. Passed the ball well. He is a good garbage player. I mean that as a compliment, that he scored most of his points without being set up for plays. I would criticize him for disappearing but the team really didn't need him to do more until he did. He stayed within the team concept. It is hard to gauge right now because of his weight but he will likely struggle early with physical big ten defenders.
 
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unoHawkeye said:
Why would you develop a jumper if you are 6’7 and the biggest player on the court in high school?
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Wait, is this a serious question??? If so, then facepalm.gif

Here's a few reasons:
-to develop your game
-in 3A at 6'7 he wasnt always the biggest guy on the floor
-because you have a scholarship offer to iowa, and at 6'7 you will be nowhere near the biggest guy on the floor.
Those are just the most OBVIOUS reasons.
To say he didn't shoot them because he had a higher percentage of making a close contested shot means he cant make them. Whether he shot them or not. The semantic you argue there is just plain ridiculous.
 
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Gary-Waterloo said:
I went to the game last night. My impressions:

JW: Smooth, started slow shooting and felt out the defense before really getting aggressive. He did look to pass but didn't have a lot of options. When you can score 29 without hitting an outside shot and the whole defense is moving to you, that is impressive. He took a lot of contact and between that and playing against double and triple teams that resulted in the turnovers. He is a special player.

PM: Really stayed within the offense and didn't force things. Passed the ball well. He is a good garbage player. I mean that as a compliment, that he scored most of his points without being set up for plays. I would criticize him for disappearing but the team really didn't need him to do more until he did. He stayed within the team concept. It is hard to gauge right now because of his weight but he will likely struggle early with physical big ten defenders.
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He's gonna struggle in the big ten. Like nunge this year: decent dribbler but not good enough to create a shot. Difference is nunge has a much better shot, is longer, and is a better rebounder.
 
Lew Masterson said:
He's gonna struggle in the big ten. Like nunge this year: decent dribbler but not good enough to create a shot. Difference is nunge has a much better shot, is longer, and is a better rebounder.
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JW seems to be a more natural 3, where he can put it on the floor and drive better than Nunge. I'm not sure it's even close between the two when discussing this ability. The amount of ground he covers on his dribble power step is quite amazing. Where Nunge struggled this last year, is that he's a tweener in college, where JW is a solid 3. Nunge is too tall and slow to guard the 3, and too skinny/not strong enough to play the 4. I think Nunge will get better as he puts on a bit more muscle, and will be a much better 4, then he was as a 3.
 
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blackandgoldrainbows said:
JW seems to be a more natural 3, where he can put it on the floor and drive better than Nunge. I'm not sure it's even close between the two when discussing this ability. The amount of ground he covers on his dribble power step is quite amazing. Where Nunge struggled this last year, is that he's a tweener in college, where JW is a solid 3. Nunge is too tall and slow to guard the 3, and too skinny/not strong enough to play the 4. I think Nunge will get better as he puts on a bit more muscle, and will be a much better 4, then he was as a 3.
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Think he was talking Patrick, at least I would assume.

I dont know what Frans going to do with all his bigs next year but JW is the guy at the 3 next year, no question.
 
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Lew Masterson said:
Wait, is this a serious question??? If so, then facepalm.gif

Here's a few reasons:
-to develop your game
-in 3A at 6'7 he wasnt always the biggest guy on the floor
-because you have a scholarship offer to iowa, and at 6'7 you will be nowhere near the biggest guy on the floor.
Those are just the most OBVIOUS reasons.
To say he didn't shoot them because he had a higher percentage of making a close contested shot means he cant make them. Whether he shot them or not. The semantic you argue there is just plain ridiculous.
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Considering that Pemsl had one of the higher field goal percentages in the Big Ten for much of the season freshman year, maybe he is a poor choice to use when discussing shooting jump shots vs higher percentage shots.

That said, I agree that Pemsl, Cook, and Wagner would all benefit from improving their jumpers.

And again, my original post was asking how nobody on the team aside from Wieskamp could take/make an open jumper at a higher percentage than relying on Joe to drive into a triple team. Not really sure how this turned into an argument about Iowa’s posts’ (in)ability to hit a jump shot.
 
Joe is an incredible outside shooter with elite range. He is also a very good dribbler...but, as has already been said, when you have to dribble around 3-4 guys to score there are bound to be some turnovers. He will put some BIG smiles on Hawk fans faces the next 4 years. :)
 
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unoHawkeye said:
Considering that Pemsl had one of the higher field goal percentages in the Big Ten for much of the season freshman year, maybe he is a poor choice to use when discussing shooting jump shots vs higher percentage shots.

That said, I agree that Pemsl, Cook, and Wagner would all benefit from improving their jumpers.

And again, my original post was asking how nobody on the team aside from Wieskamp could take/make an open jumper at a higher percentage than relying on Joe to drive into a triple team. Not really sure how this turned into an argument about Iowa’s posts’ (in)ability to hit a jump shot.
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"How do you play high school ball for 3 / 4 years and aren’t able to hit wide open jumpers? Or even mid range jumpers?"

Thats what you said, so i simply responded that pemsl cant make wide open jumpers. And thats after 2 years of college. I think the better question is "how does fran recruit someone who is 6'7 and has not a lick of offense outside the charge circle (and the top of the charge circle is probably pushing his range)?
 
Lew Masterson said:
"How do you play high school ball for 3 / 4 years and aren’t able to hit wide open jumpers? Or even mid range jumpers?"

Thats what you said, so i simply responded that pemsl cant make wide open jumpers. And thats after 2 years of college. I think the better question is "how does fran recruit someone who is 6'7 and has not a lick of offense outside the charge circle (and the top of the charge circle is probably pushing his range)?
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I bet that if Iowa had a player who could attract three defenders when they drove and Pemsl was wide open every time, he’d hit mid range (free throw distance) jumpers at >40% clip.

And you use an Iowa post player whose primary job isn’t to hit jump shots. Muscatine doesn’t have one or two other players (GUARDS or post players) on the entire team who could make that shot with some consistency?
 
Watched the entire game on IHSSN. I thought Patrick played pretty well. Needs to gain weight and get more aggressive. Joe played okay. Got all his 29 points in close or from the free throw line. Good moves around the basket for his height (6-6). Missed all his three pointers and had the ball stolen from him three times. No doubt that he is very good, but if I had seen this game and not known who he was I don't think I'd be posting his praises. Not one of his better games, apparently, but IC West is the best team that Muscatine has played..
 
unoHawkeye said:
I bet that if Iowa had a player who could attract three defenders when they drove and Pemsl was wide open every time, he’d hit mid range (free throw distance) jumpers at >40% clip.
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Pemsl is wide open every time anyway! No one guards him when he's more than 2 feet from the hoop because they're not stupid. Point still stands, you asked how after 3 or 4 years a highschooler cant make a jump shot. Well pemsl is 6'7 and after 4 years of high school and 2 years of college he still cant make anything outside 3 feet.
 
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