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Is the 12-Year-Old $7.25 Minimum Wage Enough Anywhere In America?

Nov 28, 2010
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One of the arguments against the $15 minimum wage is that it's too high for some places in America, and maybe too low for some others.

If you think about the MW as the floor, it probably shouldn't bother us that it may not be enough for NYC. After all, there are no federal laws preventing higher local MWs.

So the question becomes is the $15 MW really too high for any place in the US? Where are these places?

Obviously we can quibble about how high the minimum wage should be. Should it be a "living wage" - and what does that mean? Should it be some percentage of the poverty level, or the median income?

Back in 2016, Bernie ran on a $15 minimum wage (among other things), and proposed that it be phased in over 4 or 5 years, iirc. And yet here we are today, facing the same pushback against that 4-year-old aim.

In 2009, Obama supported a $10.10 MW and ordered it for federal contract workers. But Congress failed to extend it to the whole nation - and has done nothing since.

Here are some interesting MW facts from Wikipedia

The Federal minimum wage began in 1938 at $0.25 an hour ($4.54 in 2019 dollars[8]). The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $1.60 ($11.76 in 2019 dollars).[8][9][10]
In 2021, the Congressional Budget Office released a report which estimated that incrementally raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025 would benefit 17 million workers, but would also reduce employment by 1.4 million people.[11][12] It would also lift 0.9 million people out of poverty, possibly raise wages for an additional 10 million workers, and increase the federal budget deficit by $54 billion over ten years by increasing the cost of goods and services paid for by the federal government.[11][12][13] An Ipsos survey in August 2020 revealed that support for a raise in the federal minimum wage had grown substantially during the COVID-19 pandemic, with 72% of Americans in favor, including 62% of Republicans and 87% of Democrats.[14]
In 2019, 1.6 million Americans made at or below the federal minimum wage—about 1% of workers, and less than 2% of those paid by the hour. Less than half worked full-time, almost half were aged 16-25; and more than 60% worked in the leisure and hospitality industry, with many of those receiving tips in addition to their hourly wage. No significant differences existed between ethnic or racial groups, but women were about twice as likely to earn minimum wage or less.[15]

 
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Yes, it is for high school part time worker’s getting their first job and quickly learn that they are satisfied with mediocrity or are going to bust their but to get a good paying job.

Yeah I remember the FDR speech where he was like, "...and all the teenagers not fighting in this fight for freedom and liberty around the world will now have more pocket change to spend on rationed goods". :rolleyes:

The minimum wage was created to be a standard living "above bare minimum".
 
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Serious question, who actually makes only the minimum wage? Even McDonalds around here starts people off with no experience higher than that.

I’m curious as to what jobs actually pay the minimum wage to start.

It is mostly people in tipped jobs like waitresses. They are predominately paid the minimum wage, but typically make over $15 a hour when tips are included.
 
The only significant effect the minimum wage has is to eliminate jobs, imo. If raised high enough it can also fuel inflation, but that is minor compared to the harm created by making entry level jobs disappear and encouraging automation to replace those functions. I agree it's pretty meaningless right now, but that's a good thing, imo.
 
Yeah I remember the FDR speech where he was like, "...and all the teenagers not fighting in this fight for freedom and liberty around the world will now have more pocket change to spend on rationed goods". :rolleyes:

The minimum wage was created to be a standard living "above bare minimum".
Wow, I did not figure you to be that old to be able to remember FDR speeches.
 
It needs to be raised.

It hasn't been raised in 11 years - the minimum wage has gone down almost every year for 11 straight years when inflation adjusted.

If minimum wage was simply inflation adjusted, it would be $10.55

Last 40 years, CEO salaries are up more than 1,000%. Average workers are up 11%; minimum wage workers are down. And work productivity has doubled during that time period.

So workers are working hard, productivity is up, those at the top are killing it, and those at the bottom are paying for it.

That isn't right, and that path isn't sustainable.
 
Whether the minimum wage is $10 per hour or $12, it should
apply only to those who work at least 35 hours per week.

This would eliminate high school students and their part time
jobs. No teenager should make $15 per hour working at
McDonalds after school.
 
Whether the minimum wage is $10 per hour or $12, it should
apply only to those who work at least 35 hours per week.

This would eliminate high school students and their part time
jobs. No teenager should make $15 per hour working at
McDonalds after school.

Why not? The college they're saving for is astronomically priced, gas is more expensive, cars are more expensive, hamburgers are more expensive...
 
It is mostly people in tipped jobs like waitresses. They are predominately paid the minimum wage, but typically make over $15 a hour when tips are included.
There are data to the contrary right here in this thread.

Plus, there are exceptions to the MW laws that exempt these folks.

So why does this point keep getting raised?
 
It needs to be raised.

It hasn't been raised in 11 years - the minimum wage has gone down almost every year for 11 straight years when inflation adjusted.

Don't look now, but the unemployment rate fell for 10 straight years until the government forced businesses to close last year.

We can have as much unemployment as you want the government to mandate. What is a comfortable rate of unemploying people that aren't you, to you?
Should it matter to anyone else, especially someone that wants some money and has time to trade?
 
There are data to the contrary right here in this thread.

Plus, there are exceptions to the MW laws that exempt these folks.

So why does this point keep getting raised?

I just reviewed the thread again, I don't see any thing that states a difference between tipped and none tipped workers. Which post are you referring to?
 
There are data to the contrary right here in this thread.

Plus, there are exceptions to the MW laws that exempt these folks.

So why does this point keep getting raised?
People are curious who is an independent adult only making minimum wage.

McDonald’s pays over minimum. I thinks it’s an honest quest that people have a difficult time answering.
 
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Whether the minimum wage is $10 per hour or $12, it should
apply only to those who work at least 35 hours per week.
Some sort of cutoff might be worth discussing, but 35 hours/week seems like a very high cutoff.

And think about this.... If you and I are doing the same work, why should you get less per hour than I do just because you work a shorter shift?

As we already saw with Obamacare, if you set a minimum hours criterion, many employers will just change schedules so they can call people "part time" and don't have to provide benefits.
 
Serious question, who actually makes only the minimum wage? Even McDonalds around here starts people off with no experience higher than that.

I’m curious as to what jobs actually pay the minimum wage to start.

The *average* wage of a Wal-Mart worker is $15.25 per hour, and the company minimum is $11 per hour.

By Lauren Thomas, CNBC

Walmart announced Thursday it will raise pay for workers to an average above $15 an hour, giving a boost to 425,000 employees.

Walmart said its minimum starting wage for workers will remain at $11 an hour. Its U.S. workforce numbers about 1.5 million people, making it the nation’s largest private employer.



Walmart to hike wages for 425,000 workers to average above $15 an hour (nbcnews.com)
 
One of the arguments against the $15 minimum wage is that it's too high for some places in America, and maybe too low for some others.

If you think about the MW as the floor, it probably shouldn't bother us that it may not be enough for NYC. After all, there are no federal laws preventing higher local MWs.

So the question becomes is the $15 MW really too high for any place in the US? Where are these places?

Obviously we can quibble about how high the minimum wage should be. Should it be a "living wage" - and what does that mean? Should it be some percentage of the poverty level, or the median income?

Back in 2016, Bernie ran on a $15 minimum wage (among other things), and proposed that it be phased in over 4 or 5 years, iirc. And yet here we are today, facing the same pushback against that 4-year-old aim.

In 2009, Obama supported a $10.10 MW and ordered it for federal contract workers. But Congress failed to extend it to the whole nation - and has done nothing since.

Here are some interesting MW facts from Wikipedia

The Federal minimum wage began in 1938 at $0.25 an hour ($4.54 in 2019 dollars[8]). The purchasing power of the federal minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $1.60 ($11.76 in 2019 dollars).[8][9][10]
In 2021, the Congressional Budget Office released a report which estimated that incrementally raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2025 would benefit 17 million workers, but would also reduce employment by 1.4 million people.[11][12] It would also lift 0.9 million people out of poverty, possibly raise wages for an additional 10 million workers, and increase the federal budget deficit by $54 billion over ten years by increasing the cost of goods and services paid for by the federal government.[11][12][13] An Ipsos survey in August 2020 revealed that support for a raise in the federal minimum wage had grown substantially during the COVID-19 pandemic, with 72% of Americans in favor, including 62% of Republicans and 87% of Democrats.[14]
In 2019, 1.6 million Americans made at or below the federal minimum wage—about 1% of workers, and less than 2% of those paid by the hour. Less than half worked full-time, almost half were aged 16-25; and more than 60% worked in the leisure and hospitality industry, with many of those receiving tips in addition to their hourly wage. No significant differences existed between ethnic or racial groups, but women were about twice as likely to earn minimum wage or less.[15]


Serious question. I honestly don’t know the answer.

What happens when they raise the minimum wage to $15 and hour and the millions of people who work for that rate now in medical offices and driving delivery trucks are suddenly making “minimum wage”. When all of the semi-skilled labor now makes what a high school bag boy makes, what effect will that have on all of the other businesses?
 
Serious question. I honestly don’t know the answer.

What happens when they raise the minimum wage to $15 and hour and the millions of people who work for that rate now in medical offices and driving delivery trucks are suddenly making “minimum wage”. When all of the semi-skilled labor now makes what a high school bag boy makes, what effect will that have on all of the other businesses?
This is a good point, if there were a increase to $15 for the minimum you would see all the rates for the jobs above it increase as well. I have employees making $15 per hour now that we give annual raises to. If the minimum were to increase to $15 I expect I would have to pay at least $20 per hour to keep the same quality of employee that I keep now.
 
The *average* wage of a Wal-Mart worker is $15.25 per hour, and the company minimum is $11 per hour.

By Lauren Thomas, CNBC

Walmart announced Thursday it will raise pay for workers to an average above $15 an hour, giving a boost to 425,000 employees.

Walmart said its minimum starting wage for workers will remain at $11 an hour. Its U.S. workforce numbers about 1.5 million people, making it the nation’s largest private employer.



Walmart to hike wages for 425,000 workers to average above $15 an hour (nbcnews.com)
This is incredibly misleading.

Their minimum wage is $11. And they made it that under years of pressure. Saying the average wage of workers is above $15, is like saying the average income of people in a Starbucks is millions when Bill Gates walks in. OF COURSE Walmart pays a lot of people more than their starting wage. Duh!

The question is the proper minimum, not the proper average wage - although that could be an interesting conversation, too.
 
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Hy-Vee probably close shop if they are forced to pay more than 5 people per store more than $10.
 
People are curious who is an independent adult only making minimum wage.

McDonald’s pays over minimum. I thinks it’s an honest quest that people have a difficult time answering.

Come on man, there is a cartoon above that explains this to you.;)
 
Serious question. I honestly don’t know the answer.

What happens when they raise the minimum wage to $15 and hour and the millions of people who work for that rate now in medical offices and driving delivery trucks are suddenly making “minimum wage”. When all of the semi-skilled labor now makes what a high school bag boy makes, what effect will that have on all of the other businesses?

its a tough question to answer because the world is different now but previous minimum wage hikes have also led to increased wages for those types of jobs you mentioned.
 
Serious question. I honestly don’t know the answer.

What happens when they raise the minimum wage to $15 and hour and the millions of people who work for that rate now in medical offices and driving delivery trucks are suddenly making “minimum wage”. When all of the semi-skilled labor now makes what a high school bag boy makes, what effect will that have on all of the other businesses?
Reasonable questions, to which there are some answers (or at least good guesses).

First, none of this will be sudden. The Walmart worker making $11 an hour may not see any raise for a couple of years, because everything is phased in over several years. The person making the federal minimum of $7.25 will see some improvement immediately, but won't suddenly jump to $15.

Second, it's reasonable to assume (as the CBO does) that there will be a modest ripple-up effect. So that the guy making a little above MW, may also see a small raise. But this will taper off while it is still confined to lower-wage earners.

The benefits to the lowest earners in our culture are clear. The drawbacks for most people - if any - are minor. Where there are drawbacks, since the USA isn't a one trick pony, we can try to address them. So, for example, there are already tax breaks for small businesses built in to help them adapt.
 
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This is incredibly misleading.

Their minimum wage is $11. And they made it that under years of pressure. Saying the average wage of workers is above $15, is like saying the average income of people in a Starbucks is millions when Bill Gates walks in. OF COURSE Walmart pays a lot of people more than their starting wage. Duh!

The question is the proper minimum, not the proper average wage - although that could be an interesting conversation, too.

I was responding to the post that does anybody really make the minimum wage - and this shows that 425,000 Walmart workers got an immediate raise.
 
Whether the minimum wage is $10 per hour or $12, it should
apply only to those who work at least 35 hours per week.

This would eliminate high school students and their part time
jobs. No teenager should make $15 per hour working at
McDonalds after school.
Its a start.
I like the idea if
you lower the hours
to 30 per week.
What do you do with the adults
having to work 3 part time jobs
just to get to 40 hours a week?
 
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Serious question, are we just making up the negative ramifications of increasing the minimum wage and regurgitating what we heard from politicians and Facebook or is some of this actually backed by data? because it sure seems like a bunch of “and then inflation is going to happen and we will all go broke paying for more expensive spicy chicken sandwiches and then there will be bread lines and we are all going to die.” Here is an article from an economic think tank that is actually a proponent of an increased minimum wage.
 
Serious question. I honestly don’t know the answer.

What happens when they raise the minimum wage to $15 and hour and the millions of people who work for that rate now in medical offices and driving delivery trucks are suddenly making “minimum wage”. When all of the semi-skilled labor now makes what a high school bag boy makes, what effect will that have on all of the other businesses?
Exactly.
The maintenance man at the dealership where I work (part time, make a good bit above MW) makes $15 an hour and he's been there 12 years. He told me that if $15 becomes the new minimum he will expect to get $20 because of his knowledge of the buildings, how to fix stuff and just experience and reliability. So, yes, those folks will get an increase too.
Then the question is how much the price of products, goods and services will go up to cover their salaries?
 
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I was responding to the post that does anybody really make the minimum wage - and this shows that 425,000 Walmart workers got an immediate raise.
I guess I don’t understand what point you were trying to make. They were already making almost 4$ above the minimum wage.

If you can make $11 an hour at Wal-Mart to start, who is paying less?
 
Yes this is correct because the minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13 per hour or something close to that. That doesn't include tips though.
Not in every state. I'm pretty sure it's more in Florida because they're always looking for workers in the hospitality industry here.
 
Serious question, are we just making up the negative ramifications of increasing the minimum wage and regurgitating what we heard from politicians and Facebook or is some of this actually backed by data? because it sure seems like a bunch of “and then inflation is going to happen and we will all go broke paying for more expensive spicy chicken sandwiches and then there will be bread lines and we are all going to die.” Here is an article from an economic think tank that is actually a proponent of an increased minimum wage.
Plus, even if all that is true, so what?

Would you be willing to pay a few cents more for spicy chicken, if it helped millions of Americans live less-impoverished lives? I know you would, and I bet even some conservatives would.

Plus, there's some guesswork here. Thoughtful guesswork from the CBO (I hope), not necessarily from the politicians.

So, for example, how much will be saved because some welfare programs for the poor will be used less?

Plus, we could easily pay the extra $5 billion a year the CBO estimates by rescinding a trivial fraction of the many ill-advised tax cuts we have seen this millennium.
 
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