Murray twins

[L. Wade Childress]

Usually a B grade program like Iowa rewards its winningest career coach with a contract extension and raise coming off a Sweet 16. Running him off didn't seem like a particularly loyal act.

Although loyalty isn't really a significant issue in major college sports. Success is though.

perhaps Tom should have considered making a sweet 16 with his own guys prior to being informed he wasn’t getting a new contract.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

perhaps Tom should have considered making a sweet 16 with his own guys prior to being informed he wasn’t getting a new contract.

That doesn't make any sense. Who on the 99 team wasn't recruited by Dr. Davis? George never made the Sweet 16 with those guys, indeed never won an NCAA game and he was left with some pretty impressive players like Greg Stokes and Mike Payne.

Iowa has made the Sweet 16 or better seven times in the last 50 years. Just getting to the Sweet 16 is a major accomplishment for us. Three of those seven times were under Dr. Davis and none have happened since Dr. Davis left, 21 years ago.

Reality matters.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

That doesn't make any sense. Who on the 99 team wasn't recruited by Dr. Davis? George never made the Sweet 16 with those guys, indeed never won an NCAA game and he was left with some pretty impressive players like Greg Stokes and Mike Payne.

Iowa has made the Sweet 16 or better six times in the last 40 years. Just getting to the Sweet 16 is a major accomplishment for us. Three of those six times were under Dr. Davis and none have happened since Dr. Davis left, 21 years ago.

Reality matters.

had Tom davis made a sweet 16 with his own guys he would have been kept around. He didn’t.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

had Tom davis made a sweet 16 with his own guys he would have been kept around. He didn’t.

You realize on court success had absolutely nothing to do with Dr. Davis' separation from Iowa don't you? That nonsense about "his players" is completely removed from the decision making process because, as I implied above, the coach that does the winning gets the credit and the AD and others in decision making authority don't care about who does the recruiting. It was entirely political and a turf war.

It would have been harder for Bowlsby to push Dr. Davis out if he had one or two more Sweet 16s but Bowlsby began pushing against Dr. Davis from day one.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

You realize on court success had absolutely nothing to do with Dr. Davis' separation from Iowa don't you? That nonsense about "his players" is completely removed from the decision making process because, as I implied above, the coach that does the winning gets the credit and the AD and others in decision making authority don't care about who does the recruiting. It was entirely political and a turf war.

It would have been harder for Bowlsby to push Dr. Davis out if he had one or two more Sweet 16s but Bowlsby began pushing against Dr. Davis from day one.

What in the hell are you talking about?

 

[David1979]

had Tom davis made a sweet 16 with his own guys he would have been kept around. He didn’t.

So we shouldn't keep Fran around because he hasn't made a sweet 16 with his own guys?

 

[Legend12]

Iowa has made the Sweet 16 or better seven times in the last 50 years. Just getting to the Sweet 16 is a major accomplishment for us..

Actually it is 6 times. (1970, 1980, 1983, 1987, 1988, 1999)

And in 1970 they were seeded in the Top 16. They lost the first game they played.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

What in the hell are you talking about?

Your lack of understanding "what I'm talking about" is strongly indicative that you have no actual knowledge of the real circumstances of Dr. Davis departure and his longer running issues with Bowlsby and others in university administration.

You can opine on Dr. Davis success, obviously it was not to your satisfaction, but you should refrain from discussing the circumstances of his departure because you simply have no knowledge beyond chat rooms and various media reports that ranged from misleading and uninformed speculation to just outright fabrications.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Actually it is 6 times. (1970, 1980, 1983, 1987, 1988, 1999)

And in 1970 they were seeded in the Top 16. They lost the first game they played.

Thought 82 as well but it appears not, just another 2nd round-our pre Alford norm.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

I'm not stupid. I clearly just know far less about gay porn than you. Hence your knowledge that "Life as a G" really had not assumed a whole new meaning later in Guy's life.

Dr. Davis "needed to go"? Schools like Iowa, not Duke, Kansas, UCLA etc... that fire their career winningest coaches invite disaster; and disaster is what we got and applied with a most heavy hand at that. Dr. Davis' last season, now 21 seasons past, was our last Sweet 16. The real world implication of your words has proven to be "Iowa doesn't need to go to the Sweet 16 anymore". Dr. Davis won more NCAA games in his last season at Iowa than his successor did in the next eight, or his successor's next three, or his successor's next five seasons. Dr. Davis' last eight seasons, so we're past George's recruits, featured more NCAA qualifications, more NCAA wins, and more Big Ten winning records than the entire 8 season Alford era. Let's not forget Alford begat Lickliter. That was like going from slow motion murder through the cumulative effect of small arsenic doses to program rodenticide. Todd Lickliter was the real world result of your thinking. In a way, I guess we did find levels of success previously unknown to the Davis era so you kind of got your wish for a new level.

Speaking of rodents, I brought up Rod and Joe because they had the same flaws you attributed to Joey. Rod and Joe couldn't stay eligible for more than one season either, although Joey might have we just will never know because he was immediately driven off by Bowlsby. Its like poker "I'll see your dullard and raise you two".

IDK if Range "knocked up a girl" but you view that as a moral failing? Maybe that opinion derives from your apparently superior knowledge of gay porn actors. Let's be clear from the home team perspective, that's not a moral failing its mostly just really bad luck. Heterosexual teenagers have been having sex and getting pregnant since long before history began telling the story of man. Many of us would probably take a "but for the grace" approach to the teen pregnancy. I think you just made up the domestic abuse story.

Dr. Davis didn't "land" somewhere? Seriously? He was a 61 year old millionaire golf enthusiast that lived on a golf course when he left Iowa. To my knowledge, and I have some knowledge on this subject, he never sought employment elsewhere. I do know that Drake reached out to him, he never sought that job.

Bowlsby on the other hand was the quintessential bureaucrat looking for the next better job every minute he was at Iowa. Was he looking out for Iowa when he blew off Bob Stoops? Every minute of the early Bowlsby years was spent getting out from under the shadow of Evy's big coaches and Iowa celebrity names. Spend some time with Duane Banks, Dan Gable or Hayden Fry in their moments of candor and you'll get a very clear understanding of what I mean.

The school could not and would not pay out the final year of Dr. Davis' contract. That is another myth Bowlsby spun in the press after Dr. Davis refused public comment. Bowlsby went to the donors for buy out money and received a very unenthusiastic response-a polite way to hear what Bowlsby heard.

You are entitled to your opinion. Haven't the last twenty years proved B grade programs need to hang on to coaches like Dr. Davis with the tenacity of grim death itself? Twenty years later we have not recovered nor reached the same level of success Dr. Davis left behind. History has judged your opinion harshly, perhaps you should consider rethinking it.

The thing that makes the defense of Bowlsby so utterly wrong is Bowlsby's number one weapon against Dr. Davis was complaining about sketchy basketball recruits. So he chased off Dr. Davis and brought us Steve Alford and his parade of malcontents, illiterates and criminals-whose first two recruits were as sketchy as anyone Dr. Davis ever brought into Iowa.

You also do not get your own facts. Iowa fans have always been unrealistic but it wasn't the fans that brought down Dr. Davis. It wasn't the donors. In a way it wasn't entirely even Bowlsby by himself but Bowlsby did his best to push Dr. Davis out from his very first year on the job as AD. You are not in the ball park about the proverbial behind the scene politics of the Davis separation with Iowa. Truly not in the ball park.

I didn't read all of this, but I would agree Dr. Tom was and still is underappreciated. Dr. Tom also coached in an era when the B1G Ten was at its best (IMO). Illinois had some really good teams, Bob Knight's Hoosiers, Michigan's 88-89 championship season and then the Fab 5, Minnesota had good teams under Clem Haskins and went to the Final Four in 1997 I believe, Purdue's Glenn Robinson teams, Ohio State and Michigan State had pretty good teams too. Plus, in that era, you pretty much played everyone twice. So, it could be argued a lot of years Dr. Tom's Iowa teams had tougher conference schedules.

I also think the program got hit hard by the untimely death of Chris Street. People forget Iowa had been ranked in the Top 10 that 92-93 season. No Raveling recruits on that team. Jess Settles not being healthy hurt too.

Davis was a great coach.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

had Tom davis made a sweet 16 with his own guys he would have been kept around. He didn’t.

Odd, he did his lame duck year.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

I didn't read all of this,

Well, you should have.

 

[Legend12]

It is amazing how little accuracy is in your posts.

Bowlsby on the other hand was the quintessential bureaucrat looking for the next better job every minute he was at Iowa. Was he looking out for Iowa when he blew off Bob Stoops? Every minute of the early Bowlsby years was spent getting out from under the shadow of Evy's big coaches and Iowa celebrity names. Spend some time with Duane Banks, Dan Gable or Hayden Fry in their moments of candor and you'll get a very clear understanding of what I mean.
.

WTF?

Evasheski did not hire Banks.
Evasheski did not hire Gable.
Evasheski did not hire Fry.

The school could not and would not pay out the final year of Dr. Davis' contract. That is another myth Bowlsby spun in the press after Dr. Davis refused public comment. Bowlsby went to the donors for buy out money and received a very unenthusiastic response-a polite way to hear what Bowlsby heard.
.

Iowa could have easily afforded to buy out Davis. In fact, that is exactly what Bowlsby wanted to do but Coleman said no and instead elected to have TD coach one final year knowing he would not be coming back.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

It is amazing how little accuracy is in your posts.



WTF?

Evasheski did not hire Banks.
Evasheski did not hire Gable.
Evasheski did not hire Fry.



Iowa could have easily afforded to buy out Davis. In fact, that is exactly what Bowlsby wanted to do but Coleman said no and instead elected to have TD coach one final year knowing he would not be coming back.

What is with me conflating Evy and Bump? Duh, yes. Bump hired Dr. Davis., Hayden and I believe Duane Banks.

You are simply mistaken as to the buy out. I cannot say more about the buy out than I've already said.

 

[L. Wade Childress]

So we shouldn't keep Fran around because he hasn't made a sweet 16 with his own guys?

we don’t have as many people bitching about Fran as we did about dr Tom. He’s also been here four fewer years.

 

[BBHawk]

we don’t as many people bitching about Fran as we did about dr Tom. He’s also been here four fewer years.

Look at where each started. Really. CHA was rocking, Raveling's recruits, etc., to following Lickliter. Not.Even.Comparable.

 

[kceasthawk]

I was just going to respond to him with that but saw yours ... and figured it was pointless. If you are even somewhat positive on Fran (which is where I consider myself on him and I still am waiting for anyone to provide me with a realistic name that can without a doubt raise the program to a Purdue-like level), then you are called a kool-aid drinker that accepts “mediocrity”.

But yet they consider themselves “realistic” while ignoring facts that are presented to them - and common sense - while embellishing their thoughts because if their dislike of Fran.

"Their dislike of Fran", or Kirk. We just move from one sport to the next....

 

[kceasthawk]

had Tom davis made a sweet 16 with his own guys he would have been kept around. He didn’t.

SO? Was Iowa not in the sweet sixteen, the year they ran Davis? Certainly those were his players, NO?

 

[L. Wade Childress]

SO? Was Iowa not in the sweet sixteen, the year they ran Davis? Certainly those were his players, NO?

yeah- and he was told a year earlier that he wouldn’t be given a new contract. Too little too late.

 

[mtown66]

But to sit tight with a coach that we know isnt going to take us anywhere is silly shows our complacency as a fanbase. He has had 9-10 years already.

Tell me how long do you give a coach who inherited a program that was at its absolute lowest level in decades, perhaps in its history? Name one Iowa coach who ever had a winning season the year that he took over except for Tom Davis who inherited arguably the most talented complete roster in the history of Iowa basketball. And, Davis turned that talent into a downhill slide until three of the school's leading career scorers were all gone. It takes a while to climb out of a hole the size that Licklighter left at Iowa.

 

[seer_hawk]

Tell me how long do you give a coach who inherited a program that was at its absolute lowest level in decades, perhaps in its history? Name one Iowa coach who ever had a winning season the year that he took over except for Tom Davis who inherited arguably the most talented complete roster in the history of Iowa basketball. And, Davis turned that talent into a downhill slide until three of the school's leading career scorers were all gone. It takes a while to climb out of a hole the size that Licklighter left at Iowa.

I agree with your point, but Ralph Miller did have a winning season as a freshman coach. HOFer Lute didn't and neither did Raveling or Alford.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

I agree with your point, but Ralph Miller did have a winning season as a freshman coach. HOFer Lute didn't and neither did Raveling or Alford.

We were what, five years removed from a Big Ten title when Lute arrived. Four years off a Final Four when George arrived and coming off a Sweet 16 when Alford arrived.

The three seasons before McC arrived featured, and I'm ball parking, sixty losses. The media environment and the more national level recruiting needed now plus a less supportive university administration make for a far harder turnaround now than when any of those guys arrived.

Iowa is not an easy job. The trajectory, although somewhat erratic, is up and that's a huge improvement over where we were when McC arrived.

 

[Legend12]

Name one Iowa coach who ever had a winning season the year that he took over except for Tom Davis.

Sam Barry
Bucky O'Connor
Rollie Williams
Ralph Miller

 

[mtown66]

Let me ask you guys this about a mythical Iowa basketball coach. Would you fire him if after being at the helm for 13 years all he had to show for it was 5 straight first round losses in the NCAA tournament with no first round wins and with 4 additional losses and only one win in 3rd place consolation games. So, that is 5 invites in 13 years and no advancement in any tournament. In addition, he has failed to be invited in 8 out of the last 11 years. Be honest, would that be acceptable to you or would you demand that he be replaced with someone who could take you to the next level?

 

[Legend12]

Let me ask you guys this about a mythical Iowa basketball coach. Would you fire him if after being at the helm for 13 years all he had to show for it was 5 straight first round losses in the NCAA tournament with no first round wins and with 4 additional losses and only one win in 3rd place consolation games. So, that is 5 invites in 13 years and no advancement in any tournament. In addition, he has failed to be invited in 8 out of the last 11 years. Be honest, would that be acceptable to you or would you demand that he be replaced with someone who could take you to the next level?

WTF?

 

[mtown66]

WTF?

The teams used to play a losers bracket 3rd place game in the NCAA tournament so a team could actually go 0-2 in the NCAA tournament. The team that I described was invited to the NCAA tournament 5 times in 13 years and lost their 1st round game every time and then lost their 3rd place game 4 out of the 5 times. Who would want to retain that coach after not winning a single advancement game in the NCAA tournament in 13 years?

 

[amahawk]

Back to the Murray twins. They are similar in size but are their games and strengths similar?

 

[CanadaHawk]

Back to the Murray twins. They are similar in size but are their games and strengths similar?

Keegan 6’8”215, Right-handed
Kris 6’8”200, Left-handed

As you would expect, Keegan more physical but games similar. Both great shooters. Both can put it on the floor as both were 6’4-5” guards not that long ago. I’m thinking their growth spurt and subsequent position change given their particular skill sets has got a lot to do with the sudden offers. Don’t know if mentioned here, but Kris named after Kenyon’s teammate, Chris Street.

 

[hooper56]

Everyone always talks about the head coaches eye for talent, and I am sure they ultimately decide who gets an offer, but in most programs it is the assistants who have responsibility to have an eye for talent

That is not true at all.

 

[amahawk]

Keegan 6’8”215, Right-handed
Kris 6’8”200, Left-handed

As you would expect, Keegan more physical but games similar. Both great shooters. Both can put it on the floor as both were 6’4-5” guards not that long ago. I’m thinking their growth spurt and subsequent position change given their particular skill sets has got a lot to do with the sudden offers. Don’t know if mentioned here, but Kris named after Kenyon’s teammate, Chris Street.

Thanks!

 

[CyberJJ]

That is not true at all.

Show me a program where the assistants as a group, and often as individuals, don’t spend more days recruiting than the head coach.

 

[HawkRugged17]

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Great article. Thanks for posting.

 

[CP84]

Remember the good old days when everyone was crying about this class and Fran's recruiting?

Now we have an Indiana POY candidate.

A 1st team 4A Illinois All Stater, who was upgraded to inside the top 150 rankings.

A prep school center whose coach said has potential to be a Zach Randolph level of talent.

Two post grad players who we now know that Auburn, Miami and Florida were looking at before they committed.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

What in the hell are you talking about?

Bowlsby wanted to replace Dr Tom, that's no secret. The secondary talk was that he was "encouraged" by some big boosters who insisted Davis' style would never get us back in the Final Four.

 

[cyberhawk]

Under The Radar: Keegan And Kris Murray's Journey To Iowa Basketball
Iowa recruits appreciate their road
By Adam Hensley , UPDATED: Apr 13, 2020 | ORIGINAL: Apr 13, 2020

 

[Franisdaman]

Really nice informative story with videos and quotes from their coach and their dad, @PHawkKenyon .

And as you will read, for both of them, through the last year, their DME Academy coach had around 40 Division I coaches reach out to him asking about both of them, from low major to high major.

I think you will like A LOT of what you read.


LINK to this FREE story: https://www.si.com/college/iowa/basketball/murrays-recruit-041320

 

[Legend12]

Already been posted. You know, in a thread titled "Murray twins"

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/murray-twins.289494/page-6

 

[BBHawk]

Under The Radar: Keegan And Kris Murray's Journey To Iowa Basketball
Iowa recruits appreciate their road
By Adam Hensley , UPDATED: Apr 13, 2020 | ORIGINAL: Apr 13, 2020

Nice read - thanks.

 

[cidhawkeye]

Already been posted. You know, in a thread titled "Murray twins"

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/murray-twins.289494/page-6

The one with 237 replies and over 25K views? Who would have thought to look there?