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NYTimes: Fix the Electoral College or Scrap It

cigaretteman

HR King
May 29, 2001
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If you were looking for the perfect distillation of how dysfunctional the American system of electing the president is, it would be hard to top last week’s federal appeals court ruling allowing “electors” — the members of the Electoral College — to vote for whomever they want, rather than the candidate they were pledged to support.

“Wait,” you might say, “someone I’ve never even heard of can just throw out my vote for president?”

Well, yes. Or maybe not.

First some background: Micheal Baca was a Democratic elector in Colorado in 2016, pledged to Hillary Clinton, who won the state. Mr. Baca believed Mr. Trump’s electoral victory posed an existential threat to the country, so he began a campaign, with a Democratic elector in Washington State, to persuade electors of both parties to break their pledges and vote for someone they might agree was qualified for the job — like John Kasich, the former Ohio governor and 2016 Republican presidential candidate. If there were enough “faithless electors,” either Mr. Kasich would be president or the electoral vote would be deadlocked and the election thrown to the House.

While almost no one else joined Mr. Baca’s cause, he cast his ballot for Mr. Kasich anyway, in symbolic protest. In doing so he broke a Colorado law requiring electors pledged to the person who wins the state’s popular vote to cast their ballot for that candidate. The state replaced him with an elector who voted for Mrs. Clinton. Mr. Baca sued, saying that Colorado’s law — similar to those in more than two dozen states — violated his right to cast his electoral vote however he chose, as the framers intended.



dictum that the College ensured that “the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications,” Mr. Baca and his allies called themselves “Hamilton electors.”

The Aug. 20 ruling from a three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit, in Denver, backed up his constitutional claim.

The decision was the reverse of a ruling by the Washington State Supreme Court in May that upheld that state’s law imposing a fine of $1,000 on three faithless electors, including Mr. Baca’s ally. That court noted that the Constitution gives states near-total authority over electors.

If the United States Supreme Court steps in to resolve the conflicting rulings, it will of course note that Hamilton’s vision has not been a reality for more than 200 years. After electors unanimously chose the nonpartisan George Washington in the first two elections, national political parties developed and electors became partisan actors who voted for their party’s candidate.

In other words, electors aren’t distinguished citizens weighing whether the people have made a wise decision on their presidential ballot; they are men and women chosen because of their partisan loyalty. So it’s understandable that after years of tightly contested elections, Americans are aghast that an elector would dare to substitute his judgment for the will of the people.



But even if Mr. Baca were to win a Supreme Court ruling, not much would change. Outside of a few scattered symbolic protests, electors are almost never truly faithless, even when there’s no law stopping them. Consider the 2000 election, when George W. Bush won states representing 271 electoral votes — just one more than the minimum he needed to prevail. Despite losing the popular vote to Al Gore, Mr. Bush didn’t lose a single elector.

If states were forbidden from determining how their electors vote, parties would only be more careful about vetting prospective electors.

The point is that faithless electors are not the real problem. What really disregards the will of the people is the winner-take-all rule currently used by every state but Maine and Nebraska. Giving all electors to the winner of the statewide popular vote erases the votes of citizens in the political minority — say, the 4.5 million people who voted for Donald Trump in California, or the 3.9 million who voted for Hillary Clinton in Texas. Nationwide, this was the fate of 55 million people in 2016, or 42 percent of the country’s electorate.

The winner-take-all rule encourages campaigns to focus on closely divided battleground states, where a swing of even a few hundred votes can move a huge bloc of electors — creating presidents out of popular-vote losers, like George W. Bush and Donald Trump. This violates the central democratic (or, if you prefer, republican) premises of political equality and majority rule.

What most people don’t realize is that the winner-take-all rule exists nowhere in the Constitution. It’s a pure creation of the states. They can award their electors by congressional district, as Maine and Nebraska do, or in proportion to the state’s popular vote, as several states have considered.

Or they could award them to the candidate who wins the most votes nationwide, regardless of the state outcome. That’s the elegant approach of the National Popular Vote interstate compact, which achieves a popular vote not by abolishing the College but by using it as the framers designed it — as a state-based institution. So far 15 states and the District of Columbia, with 196 electoral votes among them, have joined the compact, promising to award their electors to the national vote-winner. The compact goes into effect once it is joined by states representing 270 electoral votes — the bare majority needed to become president — thus guaranteeing the White House to the candidate who won the most votes.

Critics say that relying on the popular vote would allow the presidency to be decided by the big cities on the coasts, but big cities don’t come close to having enough votes to swing a national election. At the same time, the Electoral College doesn’t do any of the things its defenders claim it does. For example, it doesn’t force candidates to win nationwide support, and it doesn’t protect smaller states, since winner-take-all rules give far more influence to larger states, especially battlegrounds.

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It’s unlikely that battleground states will abandon winner-take-all on their own, since it would lessen their political power. But right now a constitutional amendment to eliminate it would be as unlikely as one eliminating the Electoral College itself. Despite more than 700 proposals for amendments to reform or abolish the Electoral College — by far the most of any provision of the Constitution — it has remained.

The College has survived not because it makes sense, but because one party or the other has believed it gives them an advantage. That may be smart politics, but it’s terrible for a democracy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/30/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
 
Does the New York times know that we are a republic and not a democracy?
If it so obvious it should be easy to get an amendment pushed through.

"But right now a constitutional amendment to eliminate it would be as unlikely as one eliminating the Electoral College itself."
So, it is not going to happen, but, lets write an opinion piece several times a year about it.
 
Also for the right when they lose an election.
People on the right complain about the electoral college when they lose?
Again, if it is so obvious of an issue, then it should be really easy to get it abolished and go to national vote totals. It should be a common discussion topic during the Democratic debates
 
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Does the New York times know that we are a republic and not a democracy?
If it so obvious it should be easy to get an amendment pushed through.

"But right now a constitutional amendment to eliminate it would be as unlikely as one eliminating the Electoral College itself."
So, it is not going to happen, but, lets write an opinion piece several times a year about it.

We are both

Democracy simply means that the people hold ultimate power in a political system. A Republic is a type of democracy. Constitutional monoarchy is another type.
 
I'm fine with the Electoral College in theory but the actual electoral votes in each state should be proportionally split according to the actual voting results within the state. In its current form its a sham and a representational farce.

The problem is that no state where one party runs the state government would do that.

Imagine if California where to suddenly do that. Democrats would be screwed in the presidential election. If Texas did that, it would screw the Republicans.

The other issue is that small states with 3 or 4 votes. What percent do you need the minority to pull to get an electoral vote?
 
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The constitution is a real bitch for the left

Problematic and undemocratic components/aspects of the constitution should be a real bitch for everyone.

The belly laughs that are going to be provided when Texas decisively flips to the Dems. The cons decisively own themselves.
 
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I'm fine with the Electoral College in theory but the actual electoral votes in each state should be proportionally split according to the actual voting results within the state. In its current form its a sham and a representational farce.

Agree completely. Whether it's a state with 55 electoral votes or a state with 2-3, winning a state by 1 vote should not guarantee every electoral vote.

Fix that and I'm fine with the Electoral College.
 
I agree, get rid of the electoral college and replace it with one vote for each state. We are an amalgamation of states and each state should have one electoral vote as determined by the popular vote of that state. First candidate with 26 states wins the election. In the event of a 25 - 25 tie then the popular vote becomes the tie breaker...yea, I'm a genius :)
 
You need to go back and read about why the electoral college was created.

Apparently you don't value Iowa's voice.

Iowa has about 8% of the population of CA, but about 11% of the electoral votes of CA. Iowa is over-represented.
 
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Get rid of the electoral college and let all candidates fight it out in the octagon. Pay per view event, no rules and last one standing is the President.
 
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Iowa has about 8% of the population of CA, but about 11% of the electoral votes of CA. Iowa is over-represented.

No it isn't. We have a census every 10 years to apportion the votes. The only argument would be extremely low population states such as Wyoming, which get the minimum. We vote for electors, not for POTUS. The electors represent each state, as a state. States are supposed to hold the power. Has that power evolved and shifted? Yup, most definitely. But the idea is sound.

Shifting to a popular vote would mean candidates ignoring middle America. They would only care about the West Coast and Northeast.
 
No it isn't. We have a census every 10 years to apportion the votes. The only argument would be extremely low population states such as Wyoming, which get the minimum. We vote for electors, not for POTUS. The electors represent each state, as a state. States are supposed to hold the power. Has that power evolved and shifted? Yup, most definitely. But the idea is sound.

Shifting to a popular vote would mean candidates ignoring middle America. They would only care about the West Coast and Northeast.

And I didn't argue about getting away from the EC. I've said many times that the all or nothing nature of how the states divvy up the EC votes is wrong. The votes should be broken down by how the pop vote in each state fell. Barely winning a state such as CA, NY, FL or TX but getting all of the electoral votes is why people have a problem with it.

However, IA (along with many/most small pop states) is over represented, going by % of pop v EV that can't be argued.
 
What about the voice of 3 million people in downstate Illinois? Their issues, and votes don't really count for anything because their state is not "in play", same goes farmers in California (America's largest agricultural state), or ranchers in Texas or Wyoming. A system that makes the vote of someone in Vermont 3 times more powerful than a vote in Texas just seems fundamentally wrong.
 
Exactly.
What about the voice of 3 million people in downstate Illinois? Their issues, and votes don't really count for anything because their state is not "in play", same goes farmers in California (America's largest agricultural state), or ranchers in Texas or Wyoming. A system that makes the vote of someone in Vermont 3 times more powerful than a vote in Texas just seems fundamentally wrong.
 
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I agree. The all or nothing nature is what I hate. If you are a minority in your state, your vote does absolutely nothing. Require states to divvy up their votes by proportion of their win and go from there.
 
I'm fine with the Electoral College in theory but the actual electoral votes in each state should be proportionally split according to the actual voting results within the state. In its current form its a sham and a representational farce.
Why have an Electoral College, then? That only requires a calculator (or a pencil and paper).
 
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