NYTimes: Fix the Electoral College or Scrap It

[pablow]

The FF also set up this government to work slowly and deliberately.....evolution as opposed to revolution. Checks/balances and oversight all contribute to slow moving government.
“slow” is not in many folks vocabulary nowadays. Just think back to the last national election cycle.

You say you'll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well, you know
You better free your mind instead

But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be
All right, all right, all right
All right, all right, all right
All right, all right, all right
All right, all right​

 

[franklinman]

You may think it's flawed, but the Framers set it up purposefully to have the very effect that you guys are bitching about. I guess it's working just fine.

Yep, when it was 12 states, 2 which were much larger than the rest, its now outdated.

 

[DooBi]

That would entail being on Facebook. No thanks.
If she’s published elsewhere I’ll take a look.

She has a couple books on the subject. I'm sure you can find her views other places.

 

[strummingram]

Yep, when it was 12 states, 2 which were much larger than the rest, its now outdated.

Present day idolizing of "the Framers" is an impediment. They were human beings who had no more ability to remedy the future of the country than we do.

 

[mstp1992]

Present day idolizing of "the Framers" is an impediment. They were human beings who had no more ability to remedy the future of the country than we do.

“The framers” also allowed slavery, did not allow women or blacks the right to vote. Hell, blacks were not considered whole people.

“The Framers” were impressive but not perfect. The electoral college is an example of their flaws.

 

[strummingram]

“The framers” also allowed slavery, did not allow women or blacks the right to vote. Hell, blacks were not considered whole people.

“The Framers” were impressive but not perfect. The electoral college is an example of their flaws.

They were products of their own time and circumstances. It's impossible to predict conditions in the future.

 

[mstp1992]

They were products of their own time and circumstances. It's impossible to predict conditions in the future.

Hence, the need to adjust/adapt to changing circumstances/environment. It’s called evolution.

 

[DooBi]

Hence, the need to adjust/adapt to changing circumstances/environment. It’s called evolution.

Hence the reason they gave us a way change it.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

This stuff just makes Democrat’s sound like babies. You know the rules, go out and win.

Complaining about the rules or Officiating just makes you sound like bitch husker fans.

This is just stupid. First, it's not a game. Second, are we to assume you think football should still be played under the original rules?

 

[mstp1992]

Hence the reason they gave us a way change it.

Which is what I, and many others, have wanted to do for a long time.

Those who don’t want to change have given no intelligent reasons to keep the electoral college in its current form.

 

[DooBi]

Which is what I, and many others, have wanted to do for a long time.

Those who don’t want to change have given no intelligent reasons to keep the electoral college in its current form.

There has been many reasons given. You deem them unintelligent because you disagree. Doesn't make it true, it just makes you a condescending jerk.

 

[mstp1992]

There has been many reasons given. You deem them unintelligent because you disagree. Doesn't make it true, it just makes you a condescending jerk.

None of the reasons are compelling enough to address the long-standing concerns I’ve raised.

Nobody has adequately addressed them.

 

[DooBi]

None of the reasons are compelling enough to address the long-standing concerns I’ve raised.

Nobody has adequately addressed them.

Well, now wasn't that a much more polite and respectable to say than "Everyone but me is ignorant"?

 

[Huey Grey]

There has been many reasons given. You deem them unintelligent because you disagree. Doesn't make it true, it just makes you a condescending jerk.

Each one of these reasons has been shredded as nonsense.

 

[DooBi]

Each one of these reasons has been shredded as nonsense.

False

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Instead of % of the vote split, one could look at allocating EC electors by house district and then winner take all for the EC electors allocates by senate seat. So if House District 1 in a state voted for the democrat, they get the EC elector, but if the state voted for the Republican, they get the 2 senate EC electors.

Using current senator and representative party to assume the way the EC would be split...

So instead of Iowa sending 6 to Trump they would have split 3 & 3.

Indiana would be 2 for Hillary and 9 for Trump instead of 11 for Trump.

Illinois would be 6 for Trump and 15 for Hillary instead of 20 for Hillary.

Of course this is pretty simplistic as it is very possible that a district who sent a R house rep could have voted for a D President. Indiana has that on the north side of Indianapolis as they sent a R to the House, but tend to vote D for president.

Sounds like a mild step toward more democracy.

Gerrymandering would undermine it somewhat, but still better than what we do now.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Everyone in this thread should search Tara Ross on facebook and read her takes on the electoral college.

Can you summarize her main arguments for us? I looked her up and read the blurbs on her books. But the blurbs only say the EC is great, not why it's great.

 

[strummingram]

The Electoral College would be awesome if it were utilized the way it was intended and used originally. We would never have discussions about the President because we aren't responsible for electing them. And, I would prefer the candidate with the 2nd most electoral votes become vice president.

Most of the mess that's been created is due in large part to the 2 Party system that exists. They're like corporate institutions trying to turn a bigger profit.

 

[mstp1992]

False

No, it’s true. There are no arguments that can be made to say the electoral college is a perfect system.

 

[mstp1992]

The Electoral College would be awesome if it were utilized the way it was intended and used originally. We would never have discussions about the President because we aren't responsible for electing them. And, I would prefer the candidate with the 2nd most electoral votes become vice president.

Most of the mess that's been created is due in large part to the 2 Party system that exists. They're like corporate institutions trying to turn a bigger profit.

The current state of the electoral college essentially prevents alternative options from the two main parties.

 

[MikeyHawk]

It is so obvious and no arguments for it.
Should be easy to get a constitutional amendment to amend it then.
Just so clear. Maybe you should just decide everything for the rest of the country. You have it figured out.

 

[MikeyHawk]

No, it’s true. There are no arguments that can be made to say the electoral college is a perfect system.

It is settled. No additional discussion needed. It has been decided.
This thread should be sent to the SCOTUS

 

[strummingram]

It is so obvious and no arguments for it.
Should be easy to get a constitutional amendment to amend it then.
Just so clear. Maybe you should just decide everything for the rest of the country. You have it figured out.

What state do you live in?

 

[MikeyHawk]

The current state of the electoral college essentially prevents alternative options from the two main parties.

Do you have the qualifications to be a Supreme Court Justice? We need your brilliance to properly rule on the laws of this country

 

[MikeyHawk]

What state do you live in?

Doesn't matter, just get the amendment process started. Tired of people not being properly represented in this country. Amazing that this hasn't been changed since it so clear

 

[mstp1992]

Doesn't matter, just get the amendment process started. Tired of people not being properly represented in this country. Amazing that this hasn't been changed since it so clear

Totally agree with you.

Let’s get it done!

 

[strummingram]

Doesn't matter, just get the amendment process started. Tired of people not being properly represented in this country. Amazing that this hasn't been changed since it so clear

What state do you live in? It does matter. I'm trying to make a point.

 

[MikeyHawk]

Totally agree with you.

Let’s get it done!

Let's do, you are so smart!!!!!
All of the other people that have lived in the country since its inception have just not seen this clearly. You have completed settled it, no arguments

 

[MikeyHawk]

What state do you live in? It does matter. I'm trying to make a point.

There is no point, you have it figured out. It doesn't matter then, right? Every citizen no matter the state should agree with you. They will once they realize how they are not being treated fairly

 

[strummingram]

There is no point, you have it figured out. It doesn't matter then, right? Every citizen no matter the state should agree with you. They will once they realize how they are not being treated fairly

Suit yourself.

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

How many smaller states would have joined the Union if certain protections were not guaranteed? Maybe America would have evolved into 4 - 8 countries based along geographical or ethnic lines...

 

[MikeyHawk]

Suit yourself.

I move around between Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, and North Dakota. I know my vote is more powerful that way. Good feeling. We need to get this out so I can move to California and not have a less valuable vote.

 

[hawkedoff]

This is how you get a revolution. Get rid of the electoral college.

Stupid effing people

 

[MikeyHawk]

This is how you get a revolution. Get rid of the electoral college.

Stupid effing people

We should be ok. Once people realize how flawed it is and that there are no arguments for it, they will realize it is ok

 

[MikeyHawk]

https://thehill.com/blogs/twitter-r...calls-for-revolution-blasts-electoral-college

Trump agrees with us! Of course he changed his opinion after he won . We will have to forge on without him

 

[Gimmered]

Instead of % of the vote split, one could look at allocating EC electors by house district and then winner take all for the EC electors allocates by senate seat. So if House District 1 in a state voted for the democrat, they get the EC elector, but if the state voted for the Republican, they get the 2 senate EC electors.

Using current senator and representative party to assume the way the EC would be split...

So instead of Iowa sending 6 to Trump they would have split 3 & 3.

Indiana would be 2 for Hillary and 9 for Trump instead of 11 for Trump.

Illinois would be 6 for Trump and 15 for Hillary instead of 20 for Hillary.

Of course this is pretty simplistic as it is very possible that a district who sent a R house rep could have voted for a D President. Indiana has that on the north side of Indianapolis as they sent a R to the House, but tend to vote D for president.

This is pretty close to what Nebraska does now.

 

[mstp1992]

This is pretty close to what Nebraska does now.

Nebraska and Maine are closer to how it should be. Still not perfect though.

 

[strummingram]

I move around between Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, and North Dakota. I know my vote is more powerful that way. Good feeling. We need to get this out so I can move to California and not have a less valuable vote.

So, you live in wilderness, basically.

Do you vote for the governor in those states? And, if so, do you believe that the governors are elected mostly by the votes that come from Sioux Falls, Pierre, Fargo, Bismarck, Cheyenne and Casper?

 

[Gimmered]

Nebraska and Maine are closer to how it should be. Still not perfect though.

I really don't think you're looking for a perfect system, your're looking for the one that gives you an advantage. Awarding Electoral votes by congressional districts answers 90% of the complaints that people have. The only problem being that it creates a level playing field in typically blue states. That's not what they want.

 

[mstp1992]

I really don't think you're looking for a perfect system, your're looking for the one that gives you an advantage. Awarding Electoral votes by congressional districts answers 90% of the complaints that people have. The only problem being that it creates a level playing field in typically blue states. That's not what they want.

It’s not about political affiliations. It’s about having every vote count equally.