I'd say at a minimum 1/3 or her turnovers are on her teammates.
The CC Show....
- Thread starter Joes Place
- Start date
They weren’t going to put her on the team. They never had any intentions of putting her on the team. She and the Fever could have played the first 10 games the way they played in August and they weren’t going to put her on the team. She could have averaged 20 points/10 assists/5 rebounds per game through the first 10 games with decent turnover numbers and they weren’t going to put her on the team.
If you don’t believe me then explain who they were going to exclude in order to make room for her. Taurasi? No chance in hell.
They don't always matter. people like to dwell on the stuff at the end of the game. You could make the same case for a run being stopped because her pass ahead went right through the hands of her teammates or her teammates blew a wide open layup. I'd also venture CC throws more players open than any woman to ever play the game.
The Fever have more wins in 36 games this season than they had in 76 games the two previous seasons combined.
Just imagine how many games they could win if they weren’t saddled with a turnover machine at point guard.
Just imagine how many games they could win if they weren’t saddled with a turnover machine at point guard.
I'd go further and say if Clark doesn't have 3-4 turnovers, she's probably not playing aggressively enough. Her passes lead to buckets, which lead to momentum, energy and crowd support. If she's trying to play it too safe, she's not going to be the player she is.
Sure 7 is too many, but 3 or 4 is not, for how she plays and how often she has the ball in her hands.
Sure 7 is too many, but 3 or 4 is not, for how she plays and how often she has the ball in her hands.
This. Clark is facilitating points for her team at a rate never seen before in the WNBA. No player has ever led the league in assists and also finished in the Top 10 in scoring in the same season. Clark is on track to be the first ever.
She does have some frustrating turnovers, but that’s a byproduct of her high risk, high reward style of play. She doesn’t throw passes to where a player is, she throws passes to where a player is going to be. That frequently results in easy baskets and it sometimes results in turnovers. But the net result is a positive.
The TO that she specifically addressed the other day was one of those cases where Clark threw the ball to where she thought Smith was going to go but Smith zigged when Clark thought she was going to zag. So Clark took the blame because that’s what good teammates do.
These types of turnovers will decrease as the team gets more reps and more time together.
I though she was looking for Mitchell to cut to the basket on that TO, but either way you are right she is always anticipating where her teammates will be going next. The other thing I've noticed is the entire team is making more assists than they were in the beginning.
Joes Place loves himself the assist-turnover ratio. Jose Calderon & Monte Morris must be his favorite point guards of all time.
Understandable,.. given that she is both the primary ball handler and the primary assist generator.
I’ve noticed that as well. Particularly since the break, they are doing a great job of making the extra pass. Many times CC will make a spectacular pass to a teammate who then immediately passes to a third wide open teammate for an easy shot. If basketball tracked secondary assists like they do in hockey, Clark might lead the league in that category as well.
Also tracking free throws as an assist.
If I’m not mistaken they do count those in international basketball.
Kelsey Mitchell had 4 TOs to 1 assist. If she had 12 assists like CC she would have had 48 TOs. Ponder that for a while Joe...
I posted this last week after the Dallas game but it’s so damn pretty that it deserves a repost.
Do we need to make a new HBOT CC thread so we can move the f on?
Were you excited that CC was one TO away from another Triple Double yesterday?
That's why the Official Scorekeeper assigned them to her.
They were "someone else's" turnovers.
If her Assist/TO ratio is close to '1', she's probably playing a little too aggressively.
Sure; she's about 1 game (or 2) away from setting the Season Assists record
But the bad part is she broke the Season TOs record a long time ago.
It's actually a BB metric of how good your assists numbers are.
2:1 is considered a "good" ratio.
Oh Joe. I’m not going to get into a battle of “actually a good BB metric” with someone who is not a fan of bball. When you watch your first NBA game get back to me, then you’ll only be about 40 years behind.
Then you can look it up, yourself.
Freebie:
NBA Basketball Player Stats - Assist to Turnover Ratio
Free NBA basketball player stats and splits in simple, easy to read tables. This page tracks assist to turnover ratio statistics.
www.teamrankings.com
Which Player Has The Highest Career Assist To Turnover Ratio | StatMuse
John Stockton has the most career assists, with 15,806 assists.
You haven’t a clue what I need to look up when it comes to bball stats. Stick to Covid threads, though it is funny seeing you act like the AST/TO metric is A) new & B) meaningful. Goes back to my Jose Calderon comment, why don’t you go look him up.
I know what a "good" Assist/TO ratio is.
1:1 is not it.
CC currently is about 1.5:1
Nothing to shout about.
If you think otherwise, then post some links to support your point.
Clearly, Assists/TO ratio ain't in your "swinglane" here....
I love seeing someone trying to talk hoops when it’s so clearly out of their lane. Keep the laughs coming. Maybe you can teach me some advanced stats & which ones matter more than others. I’d love to hear you try to talk VORP.
Given her position and the overly aggressive way she gets defended, Clark is always going to have a relatively high number of turnovers,... Almost impossible to compare her stats in this area to any other player....
Please just stop responding to him. Completely ignore him. It's the only way to move forward in this thread.
Also, more passing opportunities = more chances to turn the ball over. This concept seems to be lost on Joe. For someone who acts like a stat geek, the stats he uses are very archaic. Hollinger would be pointing & laughing at Joe.
But at least he’s trying to talk hoops, even though it’s evident he’s not a hooper.
I've found that Joe will expound on any topic,.. with or without knowledge of the subject.
- Sep 13, 2002
- 97,738
- 203,700
- 113
She is one of one, in a good way.
Whereas our Joe is one of one, and not in a good way.
Nahhh, the link he provided said Ricky Rubio because his steals were worth 9.1 points each.
I can’t make that up, some guy did a decade ago and some uninformed poster parroted it out.
Even though he doesnt watch the games, i bet Joe was huge Connor McCaffery fan. BuT AsSiSt to TuRnOvEr rAtiO
Translation: I cannot defend CC's currently poor Assist/TO ratio. It's worse than most top tier players.
