The CC Show....
- Thread starter Joes Place
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Again, it depends on your definition of “dominant.” Right now there is A’ja Wilson and then there is everyone else. If you play the Aces you know going in that Wilson is going to get 25 points and 10 rebounds and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. You know going in that she’s going to be an intimidating force on defense and you know you’re probably going to get beat.
Clark is an elite player and I would put her in the next tier of players along with Collier and Stewart and others. She puts up big numbers most nights but she also has nights where she gets frustrated by elite defenders and struggles with turnovers.
She’s going to become a dominant player, maybe as soon as next season. I just think it’s fair to say she’s not quite there just yet.
But Sheryl Swoopes is definitely an idiot.
Clark is absolutely a dominant player. No one has ever pushed the pace and put up numbers like she has. Other teams guard her differently than everyone else. She’s completely changed the game
The media need to start calling Swoopes out. This is not analysis, this is just some personal pettiness fueled by jealousy and probably a bit of racism.
So under your analysis, the W only has one dominant player right now. Who would qualify in the NBA? I can't think of anyone who is unstoppable where nothing can be done about it, other than Lebron, but even he has lost some off his fastball. frankly, the last dominant guy where there wasn't a damn thing you could do about it would be prime Shaq. In baseball, is Ohtani dominant? He puts up big numbers from time to time (or more frequently), but from game to game, he's not guaranteed to put big numbers. In the NFL, even Mahomes isn't unstoppable every game (see last last week's game), and Barry Sanders had some clunkers. Maybe under your framework, prime Bo Jackson?
Huh?
She's put up an excellent rookie season; she has not established herself as the top guard in the league, though.
I don't think that has come out - only prognostications. But, to your point, she is on everyone's list. And she is dominant. As are Collier and Stewart.
The post was that she "was the top guard in the league"
When playing against two other top tier guards against the Aces, she did not put up spectacular/dominant numbers (in the last couple games, vs Gray and Plum).
Is she in the top tier? Absolutely.
Is she "the best in the league"? Not for this season, particularly across the whole season. I also would not vote 1st team honors for the guard that broke the season turnovers record (obliterated it, actually), or call them "the best the league has to offer", despite her Assists record.
If the 1st Team voting is a popularity contest, she may be on it; if it is based on merit/performance, there are other WNBA players and guards who probably deserve to be there before her; who have had more consistent 2024 performances.
I expect she will be on the WNBA first team for much of her career, and may win some MVP honors before her career is over.
If it's a popularity contest, she will.
But others probably deserve the honor before her, who had more consistent seasons.
I suppose we will just have to see how your evaluation stacks up with those who have a vote.
Clark leads in EFF stats among those 3.
Season Leaders
The official leaders for the latest WNBA season. Features the ability to filter by season, season type, per mode, stat category, and more.
stats.wnba.com
Well, that's strange. What does this mean Joe?Clark leads in EFF stats among those 3.
Season Leaders
The official leaders for the latest WNBA season. Features the ability to filter by season, season type, per mode, stat category, and more.
Yep. As clear as day. The Sheryls of the world arguing against her being 1st team are just dumbass haters who don't actually watch the games.
Comparable to Gray, Ionescu, Ogunbowale, etc, but the massive turnovers tip the scale for me.
Those are game-costing issues (which CC told you, herself, in a postgame interview where in that part of the game they ruined the momentum).
She's been doing better w/ that ratio as the season progressed, but her early season problems are enough to tip the scale to the more established and more consistent players.
Clark leads in EFF stats among those 3.
Season Leaders
The official leaders for the latest WNBA season. Features the ability to filter by season, season type, per mode, stat category, and more.
CC has double the # of TOs of most of the established guards
She does not have double the # of Assists
Like I'd stated: She is one of the top guards in the league (in the same convo)
I'd stated I do not think she had a season that made her the #1 guard in the league. There are a few above her who are more consistent and protect the ball better.
- Efficiency: Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks - (Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made) + (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made) + Turnovers
Clark 20.9
Gray 14
Plum 14.1
Ionescu 17.4
Ogunbowale 19.4
There are only 4 players with a higher EFF and 1 player with the same EFF as CC. As stated in my previous post EFF takes turnovers into consideration.
Efficiency (EFF)
This stat is a measure of a player's efficiency and is calculated using the following formula: (PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK − Missed FG − Missed FT - TO) / GP.
Season Leaders
The official leaders for the latest WNBA season. Features the ability to filter by season, season type, per mode, stat category, and more.
stats.wnba.com
Imagine hitching your horse on the same side of the fence as Sherryl Swoopes.
Most points by a pg in wnba history. What does that qualify as.
Plus most assists in a season ever.
Plus the most 3P made this season and 2nd most in a season ever.
Plus most assists in a game ever.
Not dominant though or 1st team.
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Nikola Jokic has won 3 of the last 4 MVPs (and finished 2nd in the other season). He seems dominant.
I can see where "turnovers" would bias that stat, when they're "added"...
CC gets a big big boost if your metric lists them as "+"
Most TOs in WNBA season history
A record that was set far in advance of the assists.
They are added to the side that is subtracted from the total of rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. Using CC's season stats it is figured like this:
(769 pts + 227 rebounds + 337 assists + 53 steals + 27 blocks) - [(580 FG Attempts - 242 FG Made) + (180FT Attempts - 163 FT Made) + 223 Turnovers] divided by 40 games played
1413 - (338 + 17 +223 Turnovers)
1413 - 578 = 835
835/40 Games = 20.85 rounded to 20.9 EFF
How did CC's turnovers bias the stats?
4th in mvp votes and highest finishing guard. Is that good?
Indiana Fever star Caitlin Clark finishes fourth in WNBA MVP voting
Indiana Fever rookie star Caitlin Clark finished fourth in the voting, receiving 130 total voting points. Aces' A'Ja Wilson was the unanimous winner.
www.indystar.com
All the voters are wrong and JP is right. Just ask him4th in mvp votes and highest finishing guard. Is that good?
Indiana Fever star Caitlin Clark finishes fourth in WNBA MVP voting
Indiana Fever rookie star Caitlin Clark finished fourth in the voting, receiving 130 total voting points. Aces' A'Ja Wilson was the unanimous winner.www.indystar.com
As for geno or taurasi, I guess there are levels to this thing. She didn’t medal so we are all morons.
I was told this efficiency number was a metric to pay attention to. That it was very important. Now that these numbers show something the number is not as important?
I did enjoy the ‘comparable’ tactic as well.
Sometimes you just sit back, order the popcorn and wait for the spin cycle to begin…..
Well turnovers…. They are factored in? Oh, well but yeah there were a lot of turnovers…… still factored in? But I strenuously object.
Feverishly searching for another metric would be my guess. Might need to go back a decade for the 9.1 point steal site for more numbers…..
She received votes just on her popularity.4th in mvp votes and highest finishing guard. Is that good?
Indiana Fever star Caitlin Clark finishes fourth in WNBA MVP voting
Indiana Fever rookie star Caitlin Clark finished fourth in the voting, receiving 130 total voting points. Aces' A'Ja Wilson was the unanimous winner.www.indystar.com
Joe feverishly googling
‘Stats that support my position in this thread’
Response
‘No search results support your position’
Joe
‘But turnovers’
Search engine
‘Still no results supporting your position’
