The next BIG QUESTION:

[MSU158]

Will Lee signing have any affect on the upper weight recruiting?

A while back, prior to Hall really hinting at where he was going, there was a very large debate over which one was better and more important to Iowa. I was pretty adamant that Hall was truly more important because he could "transform" the program. Iowa has proven they can develop the lightweights but needs better recruiting up top. Now that the dust has settled, I think it is pretty apparent that both wrestlers ended up in a program that best fits them. Neither move truly changed the landscape in my opinion, OTHER THAN keeping Lee away from Sanderson kept him from pretty much getting who he "should" to whomever he "wants". Sanderson landing Lee may very well have put PSU in a future recruiting position that no one could remotely compete with(he is almost there).

Now, to the question. Morningstar has proven himself with Kemerer, Young, Meija, Renteria and Marinelli. However that still isn't a true upperweight(with Marinelli on the fringe). He deserves no bashing. However, HOW is he supposed to sell Iowa to a 6'2" 190lb+ wrestler? I know, in many ways, Iowa sells itself. However, let's look at the most successful programs at the upper weights since Brands took over and note who they have to help bring in upperweight recruits. This list doesn't include OkState, Missouri or Michigan(all have had solid success at the upper weights).

Cornell(Rob Koll-a middle to slightly upper weight. Damion Hahn-I think he is paramount to their success).
2007-16 AA's from 165 up: 19 AA's including 5 champions and 1 finalist.

tOSU(Ryan-middle to slightly upper weight-more importantly their RTC transitioned from Rowlands to guys like Bergman and Dlagnev)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 14 AA's including 3 champs and 4 finalists.

Minnesota(JRob-size isn't really relevant now. Eggum and Becker are upperweights along with early Hahn and Konrad success.)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 24 AA's including 2 champs and 1 finalist.

ISU/PSU(Sanderson-obviously upperweight and now they have Varner)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 29 AA's including 9 champs and 9 finalists.

Iowa(A bunch of VERY GREAT little guys)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 25 AA's including 3 champs of which 2 of those were an inherited Perry.


My hat goes off to Brands for developing AA's at as great a rate as anyone up top. However, it is extremely telling that PSU has produced 18 finalists in that same timespan and appears to have that market still cornered today.

Again, what can/should Iowa do to PROVE to top upper weight recruits that they can be a National Champ at Iowa?

 

[pablow]

I'm so happy you're off the national duals death march.

 

[24 so far]

Will Lee signing have any affect on the upper weight recruiting?

My hat goes off to Brands for developing AA's at as great a rate as anyone up top. However, it is extremely telling that PSU has produced 14 finalists in that same timespan and appears to have that market still cornered today.

Again, what can/should Iowa do to PROVE to top upper weight recruits that they can be a National Champ at Iowa?

Show them some video of Ed Banach, Royce Alger, Lee Fullhart, Duane Goldman, Rico Chipparelli, Chris Campbell, Pete Bush, Joel Sharratt, Mark Reiland?

I'm not on Twitter, but I did see a post somewhere that had a response from Mark Hall on the announcement from yesterday that went something like this................

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

My response, were I on Twitter, would have been this .....................

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!


But honestly, signing Lee and everyone else that is currently committed already, can't hurt when it comes to any weight. I'll let Brands and Crew worry about it. I doubt they're going to call me.

 

[MSU158]

I'm so happy you're off the national duals death march.

I just want what's best for DI Wrestling. I liked the idea and the fact that ESPN was willing to sponsor, promote and televise. I figured it was worth a shot, but honestly respect most opponents' opinions(excepting those that for some reason take it personally). I have said many times that I am not nearly 100% convinced that it would work, but I thought it could work and trying it for a set time wouldn't destroy the current system and we could switch back if it didn't meet expectations!

 

[Azchief32]

Thanks a lot Pablo

 

[MSU158]

Thanks a lot Pablo

Was that really necessary?

 

[artradley]

Was that really necessary?

Lol! I am on your side here, but I thought that was funny.

 

[MSU158]

I know how to take you. It's just MANY on here don't know how to take ME. I don't need you adding any fuel to the fire!!!

 

[Spicolli]

Will Lee signing have any affect on the upper weight recruiting?

A while back, prior to Hall really hinting at where he was going, there was a very large debate over which one was better and more important to Iowa. I was pretty adamant that Hall was truly more important because he could "transform" the program. Iowa has proven they can develop the lightweights but needs better recruiting up top. Now that the dust has settled, I think it is pretty apparent that both wrestlers ended up in a program that best fits them. Neither move truly changed the landscape in my opinion, OTHER THAN keeping Lee away from Sanderson kept him from pretty much getting who he "should" to whomever he "wants". Sanderson landing Lee may very well have put PSU in a future recruiting position that no one could remotely compete with(he is almost there).

Now, to the question. Morningstar has proven himself with Kemerer, Young, Meija, Renteria and Marinelli. However that still isn't a true upperweight(with Marinelli on the fringe). He deserves no bashing. However, HOW is he supposed to sell Iowa to a 6'2" 190lb+ wrestler? I know, in many ways, Iowa sells itself. However, let's look at the most successful programs at the upper weights since Brands took over and note who they have to help bring in upperweight recruits. This list doesn't include OkState, Missouri or Michigan(all have had solid success at the upper weights).

Cornell(Rob Koll-a middle to slightly upper weight. Damion Hahn-I think he is paramount to their success).
2007-16 AA's from 165 up: 19 AA's including 5 champions and 1 finalist.

tOSU(Ryan-middle to slightly upper weight-more importantly their RTC transitioned from Rowlands to guys like Bergman and Dlagnev)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 14 AA's including 3 champs and 4 finalists.

Minnesota(JRob-size isn't really relevant now. Eggum and Becker are upperweights along with early Hahn and Konrad success.)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 24 AA's including 2 champs and 1 finalist.

ISU/PSU(Sanderson-obviously upperweight and now they have Varner)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 29 AA's including 9 champs and 9 finalists.

Iowa(A bunch of VERY GREAT little guys)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 25 AA's including 3 champs of which 2 of those were an inherited Perry.


My hat goes off to Brands for developing AA's at as great a rate as anyone up top. However, it is extremely telling that PSU has produced 18 finalists in that same timespan and appears to have that market still cornered today.

Again, what can/should Iowa do to PROVE to top upper weight recruits that they can be a National Champ at Iowa?

Stoll was having a very good RS Fresh year until he got hurt

 

[MSU158]

Spicolli,

I like Stoll alot but he was the #3 Heavyweight that year and was considered a bit of a project because of his heavy focus in Greco. Again, my issue isn't with the Brands' ability to coach the upper weights. What has happened with Stoll in such a short time was impressive. My focus is more on getting top blue chip recruits and getting the upper weight guys into the finals.

I still truly believe that BrandsX2 is the best coaching combo in DI. I am just eager to see them find a way to stay competitive with PSU from 165 up as they are absolutely blowing the doors off everyone else!

 

[Spicolli]

Spicolli,

I am just eager to see them find a way to stay competitive with PSU from 165 up as they are absolutely blowing the doors off everyone else!

Blowing the doors off??

Iowa had 3 AAs last year from 174-HWT, how many for mighty PSU?

tOSu had 2 champs from 174-HWT, how many for mighty PSU?

 

[BIG10MANIAC]

I don't know... I think recruiting at the higher weights has been pretty good too. Cash Wilke at 184 and Steven Holloway at 197 are no slouches. Add in Alex Marenelli at 174 pounds and Kaleb Young at 165 pounds and Sam Stoll/Aaron Bradley at HWT and I think we are looking pretty darn good.

 

[minnhawkeye]

I would think with having Lee, Tesdale, Mejia, etc to talk and show with upper weights should be a great help. Mean tell them come on board and help these studs to win big tens and nationals. Also show the 10 reasons Lee came espically number 7 these guys are not robots they have lots of fun I truly believe this is the start of getting more high studs. Plus if we can get Berge and Warner with the Lee class will shape up dam good.

 

[rossel 33]

Blowing the doors off??

Iowa had 3 AAs last year from 174-HWT, how many for mighty PSU?

tOSu had 2 champs from 174-HWT, how many for mighty PSU?

------
If you're limiting the discussion to numbers of 2016 AA's, 174-Hwt, perhaps "blowing the doors off" is a bit strong, but MSU is correct as far as PSU outscoring Iowa consistently in the 165-Hwt range in recent years.

2016
IA 3 AAs - 8th, 8th, 4th
PSU 2 AAs - 2nd, 2nd

Though Iowa had one more AA, I suspect PSU got more team points with their higher finishes and bonus pts.

Looking back a few years:

2015
IA 3AAs - 6th,7th,5th
PSU - 1st, 3rd, 6th

2014
IA 3 AAs - 6th,8th,4th
PSU 4AAs- 1st, 5th, 1st, 7th

This doesn't include 3 years (2011-13) where Taylor and Ruth scored big time.

Iowa is looking outstanding in the light weights for the future. Getting 1 or 2 top 10 heavier weight recruits would be helpful in catching PSU.

 

[SPOONER]

------
If you're limiting the discussion to numbers of 2016 AA's, 174-Hwt, perhaps "blowing the doors off" is a bit strong, but MSU is correct as far as PSU outscoring Iowa consistently in the 165-Hwt range in recent years.

2016
IA 3 AAs - 8th, 8th, 4th
PSU 2 AAs - 2nd, 2nd

Though Iowa had one more AA, I suspect PSU got more team points with their higher finishes and bonus pts.

Looking back a few years:

2015
IA 3AAs - 6th,7th,5th
PSU - 1st, 3rd, 6th

2014
IA 3 AAs - 6th,8th,4th
PSU 4AAs- 1st, 5th, 1st, 7th

This doesn't include 3 years (2011-13) where Taylor and Ruth scored big time.

Iowa is looking outstanding in the light weights for the future. Getting 1 or 2 top 10 heavier weight recruits would be helpful in catching PSU.

Thanks for doing this. Looking at 1 year seemed rather short sighted.

 

[MSU158]

Blowing the doors off??

Iowa had 3 AAs last year from 174-HWT, how many for mighty PSU?

tOSu had 2 champs from 174-HWT, how many for mighty PSU?

Look at the stats I listed and what I said. Iowa has been great at developing and creating AA's in the upperweights the past 10 years, but they have only had 3 finals appearances(Perry2x and Borschel) and it has been a while since Borschel. In that same timespan PSU has produced 18 finalists. That is a STAGGERING difference.

It's not a knock on Iowa or Brands. As I have said countless times, I think the Brands brothers are the best 1,2 punch in DI. I just point to recruiting at the upperweights as to why PSU has pulled ahead and Iowa has fallen a bit more behind.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

PSU is mostly blowing the doors off from 149-174 nowadays. Credit Casey Cunningham being an awesome coach with top shelf recruits. Cael is certainly bringing him the product.

But to answer the question, Yes Spencer knocked down a bunch of huge and incorrect stereotypes about the Iowa program and you cant buy that kind of endorsement.

 

[championhawk]

Will Lee signing have any affect on the upper weight recruiting?

A while back, prior to Hall really hinting at where he was going, there was a very large debate over which one was better and more important to Iowa. I was pretty adamant that Hall was truly more important because he could "transform" the program. Iowa has proven they can develop the lightweights but needs better recruiting up top. Now that the dust has settled, I think it is pretty apparent that both wrestlers ended up in a program that best fits them. Neither move truly changed the landscape in my opinion, OTHER THAN keeping Lee away from Sanderson kept him from pretty much getting who he "should" to whomever he "wants". Sanderson landing Lee may very well have put PSU in a future recruiting position that no one could remotely compete with(he is almost there).

Now, to the question. Morningstar has proven himself with Kemerer, Young, Meija, Renteria and Marinelli. However that still isn't a true upperweight(with Marinelli on the fringe). He deserves no bashing. However, HOW is he supposed to sell Iowa to a 6'2" 190lb+ wrestler? I know, in many ways, Iowa sells itself. However, let's look at the most successful programs at the upper weights since Brands took over and note who they have to help bring in upperweight recruits. This list doesn't include OkState, Missouri or Michigan(all have had solid success at the upper weights).

Cornell(Rob Koll-a middle to slightly upper weight. Damion Hahn-I think he is paramount to their success).
2007-16 AA's from 165 up: 19 AA's including 5 champions and 1 finalist.

tOSU(Ryan-middle to slightly upper weight-more importantly their RTC transitioned from Rowlands to guys like Bergman and Dlagnev)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 14 AA's including 3 champs and 4 finalists.

Minnesota(JRob-size isn't really relevant now. Eggum and Becker are upperweights along with early Hahn and Konrad success.)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 24 AA's including 2 champs and 1 finalist.

ISU/PSU(Sanderson-obviously upperweight and now they have Varner)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 29 AA's including 9 champs and 9 finalists.

Iowa(A bunch of VERY GREAT little guys)
2007-2016 AA's from 165 up: 25 AA's including 3 champs of which 2 of those were an inherited Perry.


My hat goes off to Brands for developing AA's at as great a rate as anyone up top. However, it is extremely telling that PSU has produced 18 finalists in that same timespan and appears to have that market still cornered today.

Again, what can/should Iowa do to PROVE to top upper weight recruits that they can be a National Champ at Iowa?

How much of Penn States were Ruth and Wright? Those two were inherited by Carl.

 

[letsgohawks44]

so was perry

 

[MSU158]

If you took Ruth and Wright away, you would have to take Perry away. That would make it 12 finals appearance to 1. I keep saying it isn't a slight to Brands as much as it is a WOW to Sanderson. Brands is producing solid AA's at the upper weights but Sanderson is producing finalists.

 

[championhawk]

so was perry

No shit

 

[SPOONER]

How much of Penn States were Ruth and Wright? Those two were inherited by Carl.

In addition to the other points, Ruth only ever wrestled for Cael.