Your reading comprehension is on par with your spelling and use of the English language. Not surprising.
Post correct facts and people won’t have to correct you. Pretty simple. You appear bored.
We are now seeing optimized lineup to be Murray 2x, Rebraca, Sandfort and a PG
- Thread starter KcTo
- Start date
Your reading comprehension is on par with your spelling and use of the English language. Not surprising.
Post correct facts and people won’t have to correct you. Pretty simple. You appear bored.
I guess what I had a hard time grasping was your use of “set a lot of people off”. I didn’t realize you were going back to 11 months ago to a different team. Because a lot people were “set off” after Joe’s playing time vs Minnesota, which was easy to infer after what you posted.
I'll just leave this here as proof of my point. This is borderline gibberish.
Why don't you explain exactly what facts you were "correcting"?
There was no discussion taking place about facts. You're just lying now.
You were complaining about my opinion nothing more.
You're one step removed from being Kilroy. Pointless circular arguments about nothing. Its brutal.
Granted against the three worst teams in the league but PPP is in a great spot with Jbo running the show. Would like to see how it looks after the next 3 but there’s no doubt the offense has been way more fluid the past few games.
Mr. I DRIVE AS DEEP AS I CAN AND THEN GET STUCK.
Defensively, I enjoy watching Joe play. Offensively, he's a liability
Credit to
less JoBo, less CMac (at least at MD)
More Jobo at PG, more Sandfort at #2-#3
less JoBo, less CMac (at least at MD)
I think you are inferring something I didn't say. Still, with every great behind the back pass, there is a full speed throw it off the backboard layup that almost misses the rim.
should we look at the data from conference play? offensive rating (higher value is good) Def rating (lower value is good)
keegan. 126 and 100.5. +25.5
kris. 122 and 101. +21. (Should be playing more, >30m a game.)
Rebraca. 118 and 104.5. +13.
Sandfort. 121 and 109. +12. There you have my optimized starting front court and starting 4.
PMac. 110 and 108. +2
Ogundele 105 and 105. 0. Can play at a neutral level, (should be playing more)
JoBo. 110 and 111.5. -1.5. The best of the worst, (but better defense in the PG role vs the #2, expect improvevent)
JoeT. 97 and 101. -4. JoeT can play defense
CMac. 98 and 104. -6. These guys are near unplayable now if you are optimizing your chances to win
Ulis. 103 and 109. -6
Perk. 95 and 109. -13.5
You see the rotation of players to use…
no trolling, just data
Last edited:
It’s pretty clear to me that when the team has often been due to the backcourt, but when they win, the backcourt manages to produce. We lost at rutgers because we got virtually nothing besides free throws on offense - werent they 0-18, or was that Penn State?So, had some time to kill (retired, have lots of time to kill). So I made up a new stat. It's called Stat Stuffer (SS).
I added points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, and deducted turnovers and fouls - all per 40 minutes played.
(I'm seriously not going to try to defend how meaningful this stat is - just having fun).
Here are the results:
Keegan 44.0
Kris 33.1
PMac 25.9
Payton 25.6
Rebracca 19.6
Joe T 19.6
JBo 19.0
Tony 18.7
Ulis 17.1
CMac 12.3
Interesting that the 5 guards are on the bottom, and I don't think it is formula bias (but maybe it is),
But it does seem to support the OP, so he'll probably agree with it!
Any set of numbers that has Josh playing more is flawed in my opinion.
We have plenty of scoring without JBo's contribution in that regard in my eyes. Joe T brings the defense that we so desperately need. The contest is certainly a lot closer when JBo is knocking down threes, I'll admit, but I still think Joe should get the bulk of the minutes.
When Iowa has struggled over the course of a game it’s been because our guard play hasn’t consistently been producing, which is why I give Bohannon the nod.
I like Joe T, truly. But I haven’t seen him make the leap as a scorer that I thought he would in offensive end. The other defenders on the floor at the same time as Jordan are good enough it’s not the liability he has been before - you can hide one average defender, which is where he’s mostly been this year.
When you say "producing" you mean offensively, I guess. When JBo is on there's no doubt he'll produce more points individually than any of our other guards. However, when you factor in assists Joe T comes much closer to the production level on offense as JBo...possibly even surpasses it. (When JBo isn't chucking in 10 threes of course).
Combine that with the defensive side of the ball where Joe T forces turnovers that lead to offense and forces contested shots that lead to reduction in offense for the opponent. I think it bends in favor of Joe T at that point.
The object of the game isn't to score the most points you can. It's to score more points than the opposing team. Matchups certainly would dictate who gets more minutes. Perhaps you're playing a team that matches up well with Keegan so you need more offensive production and go with JBo more. But, to me, overall this season, we are a better team with Joe T at the point guard position. We are second in scoring in the Big Ten behind only Purdue so the defensive side of the ball is more important, in my opinion.
Guess I have to disagree with you here. I know it’s subpar competition - though Maryland just barely fell short against Purdue just a couple days after we blasted them, - go figure, but the offense just looks smoother with Jordan at the point. For his career, he’s averaging 4.1 assists/game, with him averaging 5+ his first two years in particular. next 3 games will say alot about this argument.
we just need more production from the guard position, and outside Jordan, it just doesn’t feel like it’s consistent enough. I like what I’ve seen from Ulis, Toussaint, and Perkins when they attack the basket, I just wish they’d do it more. To often all three have let the ball stick on the perimeter.
There is some of that, but one game JoeT seems to be in the doghouse, then the next game it might be Ulis. My main complaint at PG would be that Fran sticks with JBo too long in games where he is being totally neutralized on the offensive end and there are better alternatives on the defensive end. JoeT, Perkins, Ulis, and even Sandfort against some teams, are all guys who can play high quality minutes at guard.
Last edited:
I think Fran bought into Rebraca being all league it whatever league he was in and saw him as a good fit after we didn't land Robbins. I was concerned at the time that he wasn't used to the level of bigs he'd see in the BIG, but many here thought he'd be really good because he played really well against Minnesota last year. He's giving good effort, but he's severely overmatched against the bigs at Purdue, Michigan, and of course Kofi, and not as athletic as guys like Jackson at Indiana.....
I‘m sorry, but The Rebraca data just doesn’t support your take
3 yrs NoDakota composite Conference data showed Filip at Offensive at 107 and Defense at 107 (essentially even)
Rebraca at Iowa offensive is 117.7 and defense is 104.5. That’s +13.
Filip has been very efficient at IOWA trailing only Keegan and Kris but well ahead of PMac 110.
Filip has shown a good set of inside back to the basket moves and is highly efficient at that (although in limited opportunity) and outside of Ogundele, is the only IOWA option to play with back to the basket (Keegan can to, but why, he’s much more lethal on the perimeter).
the defense is a bit below avg, but given the pelethera of excellent BIGs in B1G, that isn’t horrible
I do think he’s under valued by most IOWA fans , IMHO.
Totally agree. We lost a 6-11 all American center who was wonderful on the offensive side but dreadful on the defensive side. Fran filled that gap w/Rebraca who’s an undersized Power forward forced by Fran to play out of position in a P5 conference now. It certainly took him awhile to find his footing. As it would most guys. He’s the least of our worries. And who in the B1G can stop Kofi? Or the brutes from Purdue? He’s been fine.
I agree with everything you've said about Rebraca. I'm also wondering if forcing Kofi to guard Kris isn't a better option.
I don't think JBo's assist stats from earlier in his career have much bearing. Different player now.
I just don't see what you're seeing. Again, if we are just talking about who scores more points, JBo does. But, he shoots .379 compared to Joe at .434 from the field. So that's a lot of offensive possessions where he's missing a shots. He's not efficient getting those points. Joe has 50% more rebounds, more than double assists, and more than double steals than JBo does. All of that while playing 19 minutes per game compared to 26 minutes for Jordan.
Stats aren't everything. There are other considerations but stats do tell a lot.
I'll be interested to see JBo at the point against a better team. I suspect that it won't go so smoothly.
Just want them to keep winning. As a whole, they're better than I anticipated they'd be this season.
He’s been very effective on Offense, less than avg on defense, and I do wish they’d give Ogundele a shot at Kofi
Jordan hasnt been very productive either overall.
This team lacks even one good all around guard who can, handle, drive shoot and defend.
They're all incomplete players.
I have no idea what you’re seeing in Toussaint either, so clearly I’m right 🤪
Everything we’ve seen of Jordan throughout his career tells us he’s a good distributor of the ball, fairly good at not turning it over, an excellent shooter overall and a -minus defender. His assist numbers have dipped this year because until the past three games he wasn’t playing PG.
The idea that allowing him to play off the ball and simply hunt his shot while Joe ran the offense was a worthy experiment but clearly one that didn’t work out for Jordan and was leading to the offense struggling out of the gate, putting added pressure on the team to always chase the game.
One thing that bugs me with Joes stats is that even tho his shooting numbers are good, I’d like to see him hunt his shot more often. I like that he’s good at sharing the ball too, but sometimes that can be a liability too.
Overall I agree, I was hoping to see more from Ulis and Perkins year two. They haven’t been terrible, but not the offensive threats either. Both are good defenders tho, and that helps a ton. I think they can do those other things offensively as well, but it hasn’t been consistent.
Yeah, Rebracas only problem is that he is an old school 4 not a 5 and what he does well on offense Keegan does better so he doesn't get to many chances.
Hes not exactly what this team needed but he's a good player overall.
Its the only workable option Imo.
Philip can't do anything with him on either end besides put him in pick and roll.
PMac has been Iowa’s most consistent player this year outside of Keegan. Routinely getting 10+ points a night.
The numbers indicate Kris Murray is clearly 2nd best player, not even close.
PMac is a,good,scorer, but not very efficient , he just gets more minutes and more,shots.
PMac also poorest rebounder and rim protector.
points a game is only 1 consideration of many
We have an odd mix of players.
I think the offense will be more reliable and efficient with Jordan. I suppose that's natural, its been Jordan's team since Payton was in middle school. Plus he is a much better shooter when he's dribbling into the shot. I'm a believer in dance with who brought you.
We're probably only going as far as Jordan shoots us. Keegan's contributions are significant, of course, and versatile. But Michigan, MSU etc... are going to require a lot of 3s to chase their bigs out of just guarding the post. Unless of course C Mac starts shooting like that kid whose dad was the blind man in the stands.
I think the offense will be more reliable and efficient with Jordan. I suppose that's natural, its been Jordan's team since Payton was in middle school. Plus he is a much better shooter when he's dribbling into the shot. I'm a believer in dance with who brought you.
We're probably only going as far as Jordan shoots us. Keegan's contributions are significant, of course, and versatile. But Michigan, MSU etc... are going to require a lot of 3s to chase their bigs out of just guarding the post. Unless of course C Mac starts shooting like that kid whose dad was the blind man in the stands.
I think the JBo thing really came down to Fran trying to find out whether he could get him more involved in the offense. He’s had a crappy year at the #2 and that hasn’t been the style he’s used to playing. His whole life has been as a scoring PG, so it’s not that surprising that he’s more comfortable playing that role. If he’s shooting a good percentage and distributing, I’m good with him getting a chunk of minutes there.
I love JoeT’s game, but he’s been really inconsistent finishing. Ulis has also shown some really great flashes, but neither have brought a lot of offense. If Bohannon goes back to shooting 26%, then it’s time to start whittling down the playing time, probably in favor of Sandfort and turn PG back to Toussaint and Ulis, but if he can shoot enough, he’s made the team better and he’s changed all the rotations in a way that I think makes the team better. We’ll see as the competition improves.
I can go along with Kris being the 2nd best player, especially when you factor in his versatility. I don’t think it’s an insult to drop PMac down a spot….but PMac isn’t 2 spots below Sandfort, at least not right now. Patrick still has clear areas of growth as a player, but he’s been productive offensively and shows flashes of being a really good player. He needs to continue to get stronger, which will help on D and on the boards.
It will partly depend on how he’s shooting. If he’s hitting 6+ 3s, he’s going to get a lot of minutes and I’ll be good with it. Iowa has some guys who can hit 3s, but JBo and Sandfort are the only guys that really stretch a defense. I think Kris can get there, but he’s not yet. Patrick & Keegan hit at a solid rate, but right now they’re more about keeping Ds honest to allow them to get in on the drive.
These numbers have some merit. Ogundele is interesting but 1) I’m not sure he’s conditioned to be able to play 15 mpg and 2) his flat line is in rare spot minutes and garbage time. I don’t think that’s a “0” you can project into 15-20 mpg at this point. He can go provide a presence for a few minutes here and there (and he’s 4 fouls to give with a big body), but he’s still very much a work in progress.
Especially when you realize he’s improved both offensively and defensively against massively better competition. Some of that is due to an increase in talent around him, but I’m totally fine with what Rebraca has been giving. I haven’t done the analysis, but outside of Garza, I think Rebraca would match up pretty favorably with Fran’s history of guys at the 5.
Can't happen.....The jersey's wouldn't fit because one is left handed and the other right handed (hypothetically)
I would agree with all of this…
recall, in his only extended minutes at Purdue, he played great, on offense and defense, vs excellent Bigs, and all without Keegan, 1 possesion game with 90 seconds to go.
fran has simply refused to play him again with the 1st team 🤔
Similar threads
